Royce Lewis Has Run Out of Gas

[AKTwinsFan]

I think most of the fault should go back on the coaching staff for teaching him not to swing at center cut fb or anything in the zone. Just like the rest of the team right now. I'm not sure if correa and buxton would make a difference right now. 

[S Bart]

21 minutes ago, LambchoP said:

Not sure what they're doing wrong, but it really seems like an organizational problem. All of our MLB stars and all of our top minor league prospects just can't seem to stay on the field? With a team that has payroll limitations, having our top paid guys in Correa and Buxton only playing about half a season year after year, is going to cripple the rest of the team. Lewis is looking like he's going to be the exact same. If we can only count on our best players for half a season or less, there is something wrong. Especially when we are seeing the same thing in the minors. Jenkins, Rodriguez, Gonzalez, Keaschal. All these guys are missing serious time. Twins need to start looking at durability and stamina as a real skill that needs to be worked at and improved. I have a hard time believing ALL these kids the Twins are drafting are really ALL that unlucky or brittle. Our conditioning coaches or strength coaches, personal trainer s...they all have to do better I think.

I fully agree, but it has reached a point where there should be no full-time dependability whatsoever on Buxton. One only needs to view his inability to stay afloat year after year. With him, it goes beyond conditioning. They need to have a plan to input a SOLID full-time player in that spot instead of playing musical chairs in CF. Alas, the high priced "Buck Truck" is now a used vehicle in need of constant repair and the warranty has expired.

[August J Gloop]

The idea that Royce Lewis has worn down is a charitable reading of the situation. More likely, he's finally played enough games that there's a book on him and he's quite easy to get out right now. 

[Linus]

2 minutes ago, August J Gloop said:

The idea that Royce Lewis has worn down is a charitable reading of the situation. More likely, he's finally played enough games that there's a book on him and he's quite easy to get out right now. 

That’s my thought. Happens to young players all the time. Or maybe he is just in a slump - happens to all players. 

[KBJ1]

Ownerships lack of support is putting  excess pressure on the players & coaches and eroding their confidence. 

That said, rookies or not, they have to band together and fight through it.

[insagt1]

14 minutes ago, Linus said:

That’s my thought. Happens to young players all the time. Or maybe he is just in a slump - happens to all players. 

Just never know about young players. Some hit the ground running...then as said above major league pitchers quickly learn their weaknesses and things get ugly. Orioles Holliday and Mayo raked in AAA but have not started well in MLB. The guy they traded Norby is hitting a ton in Miami. Go figure. Lee started well for Twins but not so much now. Hard to judge a prospect based on part of one season.

Is Lewis turning into a head case? Would trading him make sense? Will Buck or Correa be ready for postseason? Will Twins actually qualify? It's no longer a sure thing. Our 2 regularly scheduled injured stars are needed but hardly reliable and we have enough dots to connect to know this probably won't change.

Is Rocco's tinkering with where his guys play from day to day screwing with clubhouse morale? They used to attack the late inning deficits..now they go meekly as evidenced by the recent 3 game no-,show by the hitters. Gonna be a tough last couple weeks.

[bean5302]

I think this is just a correction in luck (he was barreling like 20% of pitches in the previous 20 games) in combination with mental stress and it's got to be a gut punch to be pushed off his side of the infield for a rookie who hasn't been able to hit or play defense particularly well. Of course, Lewis' own defensive woes are obvious, but I don't see them improving without experience and consistent playing time.

Kepler, Buxton and Correa are all out, and the Twins are mishandling Lewis. It doesn't matter if it's baseball or the corporate world, your employees need to feel important, valued and empowered. I can't see much of that in the Twins' management philosophies looking in from the outside so I'm not sure where the spark is supposed to come from?

It's not easy to get up, get motivated, lift yourself up when you're being replaced and pushed off the job you like, the rest of the staff around you isn't performing well, and the company isn't hitting goals.

[Johnny Ringo]

Royce's declaration of not doing slumps shows a lack of humility, judgement and any understanding of the immutable cruelties of the game. He put a target on his own back  and other players (including probably a few of his teammates) are likely delighted at his struggles. The "grind" grumblings just seem like more of the same.

I am a Rocco neutralist but he has had a brutal month too. If managers had a batting average, he would have posted about a .175. He also appears to lack self-awareness about that.  He has been dismissive and defensive when questioned about it. In a tougher media town, he would have been skewered. 

I love the Twins but golly, they are making that hard.

[August J Gloop]

26 minutes ago, KBJ1 said:

Ownerships lack of support is putting  excess pressure on the players & coaches and eroding their confidence. 

That said, rookies or not, they have to band together and fight through it.

 

1 minute ago, Johnny Ringo said:

Royce's declaration of not doing slumps shows a lack of humility, judgement and any understanding of the immutable cruelties of the game. He put a target on his own back  and other players (including probably a few of his teammates) are likely delighted at his struggles. The "grind" grumblings just seem like more of the same.

I am a Rocco neutralist but he has had a brutal month too. If managers had a batting average, he would have posted about a .175. He also appears to lack self-awareness about that.  He has been dismissive and defensive when questioned about it. In a tougher media town, he would have been skewered. 

I love the Twins but golly, they are making that hard.

My guess is that Royce is finally learning what not being bigger than the team really means. He's been bad at third, much of it driven by a surprisingly poor throwing ability. Second base makes some sense in that context. But he's out there pouting and temporarily forgot how to hit. 

What is the fantasy outcome of skewering a manager? He'll build a time machine and go back and tell Jorge Alcala not to blow that game? I literally don't understand what people are hoping for with those kinds of statements. 

[RpR]

4 hours ago, William K Johnson said:

Yes, next spring put him in left field and leave him there.

It would seem that Lewis hitting those Grand Slams could be the worst thing that happened; it put him up in an Ivory castle that is shattering.

[saviking]

3 hours ago, Twins_Fan_in_NJ said:

I'll duck after posting this, but...

The Twins should consider trading Lewis this off-season. You can't have a Big 3 (Buxton, Correa, Lewis) with so many questions about injuries and durability. The first two names on that list are untradeable. That leaves Lewis. His value this off-season might be the highest that it's going to be - what happens if in 2025 he misses more time with injuries or if he does stay healthy, he fails to make the proper adjustments and struggles at the plate or in the field?

Ownership isn't going to spend $$$. If Lewis can be dealt for a controllable starting pitcher and a high leverage reliever, it should be considered. 

I

 

1 hour ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

I'll give him a pass on 2B since he has never played it and I can understand him not wanting to pull a Julian (remember his DP throw to 2b a few weeks back) or a Polanco in the playoffs a few years back.  We all would have similar issues in our jobs being asked on the fly with no training to switch to a different position within the company.

I will not give him a break on the season-long grind issue since he has not played anywhere near the number of overall games this season or not running hard unless he is truly injured in which case he should be on the 10-Day IL at a minimum.

Lewis is in a slump. Pitchers are figuring out how to pitch to him, and it will take time to adjust. I'm not particularly eager to talk about trading Lewis because we have 48 million dollars hung around our neck in two untradable players. Two months ago he hung the moon and now he's odd man out. This is just frustration from us because the Twins are stinking it up ..

[Dave Borton]

5 hours ago, old nurse said:

5 years since he has played a full season, and then not one that went into the middle of October...

The most games he has played in a "full season" is 127..

Here is a 25 yr old guy, the most gregarious, effusive, positive lad on the team. Makes one comment to a reporter about not wanting to play 2B, how he is laboring thru a grind, and we come down on him like a ton of bricks? Really?

Glad no reporters were around to pick up some of my "richer," throw-away lines I wish I had back from 45 years of my grind. I personally think he was caught at a distressed time and let fly with some frustration. Bring it around, Lewis.

[JBK]

Twins need to move on from Rocco.  They also need to overhaul their training staff.  How does your young superstar 3B pull his quad running to 3rd base in the first game of the year?  Rocco relies on analytics to develop a starting lineup each night when to pull the SP.  Why he pulled Ober the other night after 7 one-hit innings is beyond me.  He had KC's number and Rocco let a computer printout tell him what to do.

Give Royce a day off, then let him play out the year at 3B.   He's gotta learn about the "grind" any way.  Might as well be this year.  Put him in a corner OF spot next year and play Miranda at 3B.  Stop coddling the youngsters and play baseball! 

[Wizard11]

Royce does need to learn to discuss his thoughts with coaches, veteran players, teammates, his parents or just about anyone without a microphone.  His immature and childless comments on playing 2B (“we have lots of other 2B’s”, “it’s not ST or AAA”), “never slumping”, “ice cream veins”, the many complaints about the organization holding him back too long on rehabs etc.  That clubhouse is full of men who have had to make position changes, were no longer the stars of their teams, and had to learn to process their emotions without using the media.  

How does he think Jose Miranda, Brooks Lee, Willi Castro, or Kyle Farmer feel about his comments?  All of them are arguably better fielding 3B. (Apparently we have a lot of those too).  It sounds like they are supposed to eff off and stand somewhere else because the superstar is here even if he hasn’t earned it with better fielding performance..  Give me what I want or I will embarrass you by whining to the media.  Bet that goes down well in the clubhouse.

The point is not that Royce Lewis should or shouldn’t play 3B.  This post is about his immature approach to communication.  Just want to clarify that for a couple of spin doctors.

[swahl]

Just wanted to point out what is obvious, albeit tangential to this: athletes, like . . . world class athletes keep getting injured, and across all sports, well, or at least all sports that have such a stupid love affair with the weight room. Tendons and ligaments cannot handle such increased muscle mass.

I don't know how this is not obvious. The human body can increase muscle mass in fully natural ways. The weight room is not natural at all.

 

[KirbyDome89]

I really doubt we're labeling Lewis's recent struggles as "being worn down by the grind of a season," if it's late June and he has played 60ish games. 

[Rufus]

4 hours ago, Rufus said:

In other words he is not a "gamer"  Play me where I want to play or I will whine about it.  He has played half a season and he is worn out?  Come on!  I am really starting to dislike this guy.  One thing I always liked about Miguel Sano and he never got credit for and I am sure it hurt his career, was  that he always agreed to switch positions to help the team out.  He moved from 3rd to left, to 3rd, to 1st.  But the fans were always on him because he was not good at his position, especially 1st base.  But I never heard him complain once.  Now we get cry baby Lewis.

No matter how much he got booed, how bad he was doing Sano was always at the top of the dug out steps cheering his teammates on.  He usually  always the first one on the field when another teammate did good.  Yeah his career crashed and burned but I never heard of him complaining about it.  Lewis has spent half the season on the IL and he is complaining that he is worn out?

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

3 hours ago, saviking said:

I

 

Lewis is in a slump. Pitchers are figuring out how to pitch to him, and it will take time to adjust. I'm not particularly eager to talk about trading Lewis because we have 48 million dollars hung around our neck in two untradable players. Two months ago he hung the moon and now he's odd man out. This is just frustration from us because the Twins are stinking it up ..

Not entirely out of frustration. The Twins' economics and roster construction make a Lewis trade somewhat plausible. 

[tampatwins]

5 hours ago, USAFChief said:

C'mon.

Batting practice?

MLB players put in more hours than just games, sure.

But physically demanding? No. Not to mention they have unlimited access to the absolute best therapeutic recovery methods, training staff, medical staff, nutrition, etc etc etc known to mankind. Chartered flights. The best hotels. 

Catchers get physically abused. They cant be expected to play every day.  Nobody else on a MLB team has a single solitary excuse for not meeting the physical demands of the job. Or whining about it.

 

I say this as a registered dietitian, certified strength and conditioning specialist, and someone who played baseball into college: it’s a lot more physically demanding than you’d expect. Everything is about explosive power and repetition, which takes a major toll. 
 

ie: I’m younger than some players on the roster and in really good shape (my profession requires it). Went to twins fantasy camp for a week. After day 1, my groin and hamstrings and IT bands and calves were shot, from taking a few swings and playing a few innings in the field. No BP. No lifts. Nothing. I could tolerate it and work through it, and I had access to said training staff and I’m qualified to be their dietitian, so my recovery methods are great. But I did a fraction of what they’d do on a daily basis, and they do it for 8 months a year. 
 

baseball will wreck you and remind you have muscles you forget you even had. So the grind is very real. Not to defend them, but it’s certainly not easy. 

[tampatwins]

That’s my two cents. But Royce needs to stop crying and show up since he’s all the team has left for a spark 

[USAFChief]

5 minutes ago, tampatwins said:

I say this as a registered dietitian, certified strength and conditioning specialist, and someone who played baseball into college: it’s a lot more physically demanding than you’d expect. Everything is about explosive power and repetition, which takes a major toll. 
 

ie: I’m younger than some players on the roster and in really good shape (my profession requires it). Went to twins fantasy camp for a week. After day 1, my groin and hamstrings and IT bands and calves were shot, from taking a few swings and playing a few innings in the field. No BP. No lifts. Nothing. I could tolerate it and work through it, and I had access to said training staff and I’m qualified to be their dietitian, so my recovery methods are great. But I did a fraction of what they’d do on a daily basis, and they do it for 8 months a year. 
 

baseball will wreck you and remind you have muscles you forget you even had. So the grind is very real. Not to defend them, but it’s certainly not easy. 

And yet, many, many players play every day. For 6 months or more. And are performing in September. Holy cow. SAL Perez has 141 games played. Nearing 575 PAs. He catches 4 or 5 times a week. Is he exhausted?

 

I don't buy this for a second. 

It's not easy. But it's baseball. Spending 6 or 7 hours preparing for, and playing baseball (and thats a pretty generous estimate), 6 days a week, shouldn't tire out a 20-something. 

[Beast]

Add another coulda/shoulda/woulda to the Twins long line.

He might not just be cooked for the season, but his career.

If you can’t get through a baseball season at ages 23-25, it isn’t likely to improve with age.  He doesn’t have the same saving graces Buxton has (elite defense and speed).  When he’s not hitting, he’s a black hole.  He’s a defensive butcher.  He can’t run.  And, remember when he was an unflappable ray of sunshine in the clubhouse?  So much for that.

Another case of awful resource management leading to another failure of a season by this franchise.  Rinse and repeat into eternity.

[gman]

On the other hand he could easily still be hurt. The right abductor strain was written as a 6-8 week recovery period. I think like others on this roster he is trying to play through an injury the best he can. If you look at his stats since he "came back' from being injured, he is not physically right. He can easily see how Kirilloff is being treated.  Its just unfortunate he has trouble staying healthy.

[USAFChief]

11 minutes ago, gman said:

On the other hand he could easily still be hurt. 

I think this almost HAS to be true. 

If for no other reason than I hate to watch him jog down the line and imagine what that implies if he's NOT battling some sort of leg issue. 

 

[Beast]

3 hours ago, swahl said:

Just wanted to point out what is obvious, albeit tangential to this: athletes, like . . . world class athletes keep getting injured, and across all sports, well, or at least all sports that have such a stupid love affair with the weight room. Tendons and ligaments cannot handle such increased muscle mass.

I don't know how this is not obvious. The human body can increase muscle mass in fully natural ways. The weight room is not natural at all.

 

I agree and I’ve made this point to people in the past (I believe even on here).

There’s another facet to this as well.  The improvement of medicine.  There have always been people who’s bodies couldn’t handle the workload/stress.  But, those people used to blow something out before making it to the pros and their athletic career was over.  Now, they can go get a minimally invasive surgery and have another chance.  Royce is on his, what, 3rd chance?  A few decades ago he may already be done and selling used cars or insurance.

[Rufus]

7 hours ago, mrcharlie said:

Indeed. I would suggest though that the problems have existed for some time but with the losing it is more visable.  And it does reflect on the coaching.  So I am hoping changes are made in that department.

 

6 hours ago, LambchoP said:

Not sure what they're doing wrong, but it really seems like an organizational problem. All of our MLB stars and all of our top minor league prospects just can't seem to stay on the field? With a team that has payroll limitations, having our top paid guys in Correa and Buxton only playing about half a season year after year, is going to cripple the rest of the team. Lewis is looking like he's going to be the exact same. If we can only count on our best players for half a season or less, there is something wrong. Especially when we are seeing the same thing in the minors. Jenkins, Rodriguez, Gonzalez, Keaschal. All these guys are missing serious time. Twins need to start looking at durability and stamina as a real skill that needs to be worked at and improved. I have a hard time believing ALL these kids the Twins are drafting are really ALL that unlucky or brittle. Our conditioning coaches or strength coaches, personal trainer s...they all have to do better I think.

Sounds like Baldelli has totally lost the team.

 

7 hours ago, nddan67 said:

I wouldn't mind seeing coaching changes.

 

[P Meyer]

There are some significantly uninformed takes in this thread.

 

There is a mental and physical grind to all sports, but baseball is the one that deals you the most failure over the longest period of time. Not mention the grind of being on the road (which is a drain), the pressure to produce, and having to rehab multiple injuries in-season while finding ways to adjust. That is the reality and that is what they get paid to do, but it doesn't make it easy. 

 

One of the best players on the Twins is struggling because his body has not been able to consistently play this number of games in a row for a long time. He is working through figuring it out. He is trying to figure that out, his body out, and new positions all the while being asked to carry an already undermanned roster. I don't understand tearing down one of the teams best players because he was vulnerable and shared his frustrations. 

[Jocko87]

8 hours ago, USAFChief said:

As for Lewis, he better be battling some type of lingering leg issue, or somebody better explain why he isn't required to run out ground balls. Not even pretend to hustle. 

That's not a good look, at all. He lost one base, for sure, in KC this weekend. Possibly two, on ground balls misplayed by infielders. They were turned into outs because Lewis was jogging from home to first. 

 

I’m afraid there is something else going on here, to the point that I think it’s highly tied to the recent troubles and closed door meetings.  Baseball is not a game of hustle, it’s a game of being in the right place at the right time-everytime.  Sometimes that requires hustle.  Recently Lewis wasn’t even jogging to first, that’s unacceptable.  At least jog gives a chance on a misplay. 

He’s not been in the right place several times lately as well but also had bursts of energy that really stuck out as misplaced hustle while looking very healthy.  Perk and Provus were positively gushing at him running out a grounder recently, Friday I think.  All the team leader, leading by example crap.  It really felt staged, to be honest.  There is something going on, and even though it feels like it could only be on purpose I don’t really think anything malicious is happening.

He’s learning a couple things right now, along with getting through the grind.  The first is how to be “the guy” when everyone else is out.  He may be feeling a lot of pressure from that as one would expect.

The other is how to manage the body.  No doubt he’s been told to manage the efforts but knowing when and where to do that could be very tough for a young player with very few reps in his career. Carlos Correa can jog to first occasionally without any blowback because he is in the right place, every time.  Lewis doesn’t have those instincts, he doesn’t have the reps to know he should have drawn an interference call on the ball Lee threw away.  He doesn’t know which plays to go full bore and is probably frustrated trying to figure out what the team wants from him causing some tension.  Nothing that can’t be fixed, but it sucks to do in public. 

He’s been a sensation on talent, but now it’s time to learn how to be a professional.

[Greglw3]

7 hours ago, Johnny Ringo said:

Royce's declaration of not doing slumps shows a lack of humility, judgement and any understanding of the immutable cruelties of the game. He put a target on his own back  and other players (including probably a few of his teammates) are likely delighted at his struggles. The "grind" grumblings just seem like more of the same.

I am a Rocco neutralist but he has had a brutal month too. If managers had a batting average, he would have posted about a .175. He also appears to lack self-awareness about that.  He has been dismissive and defensive when questioned about it. In a tougher media town, he would have been skewered. 

I love the Twins but golly, they are making that hard.

Very good thoughts. I think it’s 100% time to move on from Rocco and Falvey. I’d be in favor of dumping Correa and Buxton but who would want them? Lewis may bounce back like Wallner did.

Time to give the McCusker, Rodriguez, Keaschal, Jenkins, Keirsey Jr, Austin Martin, Eaves?, Andrew Morris group their time

The Twins have screwed up another window (2019->) (2023-2024).

I would totally believe that the morale in the clubhouse is low. Ownership sucks and Baldelli just had possibly the worst month of any manager in Twins history with a cavalcade of wretched decisions, further sabotaging the team. -30 MM, injuries they’ve known about ahead of time and Rocco. Plus Falvey and Levines horrible track record at the trade deadline.

Time to rebuild this organization. It would be glorious if a management group could be put together to buy the team from the Pohlads.

[Markdumont25]

11 hours ago, rv78 said:

It appears the Twins superstars don't know anything about conditioning. It's not like Lewis has played every game to this point of the season. It's not like Buxton and Correa don't get days off for rest. Which they really shouldn't need if they were in good shape. There are scheduled off days for that purpose. A 162 game season these days isn't any longer than the 162 games they played back in the '70's, '80's or '90's and most players back then, especially the superstars that each team relied on, had little trouble playing 150+ games every year. I would gripe that Rocco doesn't play his superstars enough and here we have what is suppose to be the Twins 3 best hitters and they can't sustain anything close to a full season of play..... Lewis has played in 64 games out of a possible 143. If that is a grind then him playing a full season or at the very least being productive for a full season will never happen. Maybe the Twins superstars and Rocco should have looked across the diamond during the Royals series and noticed how a real superstar plays. Bobby Witt Jr = 144 games played in 144 possible.

I've long suspected that the Twins' (and Rocco's) habit of frequently resting players is actually a big part of the injury problem here. A body can't be expected to handle the bursts of activity at the highest level of one's sport when that type of activity is avoided at all other times. Their bodies won't be used to it and will break. 

How many days in a row did Cal ripken play? And our key players can't get through half a season? Maybe the rest days and all the effort that goes into "protecting" our players health is counterproductive...