Tough Decision Time for the Twins

[SaberNerd]

Against RHP, we have Larnach/Kepler/Santana/Miranda at LF/RF/1B/DH.  I don't see which guy I'd take out for Wallner.

Farmer has disappointed, but he's irrelevant to this since Wallner doesn't play 2B.

[Major League Ready]

23 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

This. The Dodgers didn't get to be one of the best teams in baseball just because they have money. They got there because they are really good at evaluating talent. Would the Dodgers maybe give that all time great player "cash considerations" to get Farmer as a back up IF if he was DFA'd? Maybe, may be not. But they are not going to give up anything to get him. They don't need to. 

I would be just fine with them getting an A ball pitcher for Farmer to make room for one of the prospects that are on a roll.  It's least there is a chance that one day they turn into Luis Gil. 

[LA Vikes Fan]

It looks like Wallner has turned a corner, but I don't think you shoehorn him on the roster for 2 reasons. First, he wasn't just of to a slow start in April. He was awful in the 2023 playoffs, very bad in Spring Training, and beyond horrendous in 2024 at the MLB level. He then stunk in AAA for a month before getting hot. It's great that he's coming around in AAA, but let's see it for 6 weeks before he gets another MLB look. 

Second, where you going to play him? In LF or as a DH against RH pitching? Then where do you play Miranda, who's .292/.338/.517 (.855) against RH pitching? Or Larnach who's .260/.317./.449 (.768)? Sit Santana so Miranda can play 1B when Santana has hit .260/.360/.480 (.840) over the last 30 games, even better over the last 15, and is the superior defender? It's just hard to see a way to give Wallner many ABs without weakening the lineup. If he came back, he probably plays twice a week max. 

Bottom line is Wallner had a tough time for awhile, lost his spot, and two other players stepped up and took it in Miranda and Larnach.  He's now going to have to wait for a chance to get a spot back.  Someone will get hurt and he'll get a 10 to 14 day shot at getting back to MLB. IF he performs well, great. If not, back to AAA. He doesn't get a long look, riding out slumps, etc. He performs right away or he's back in the minors. The team is playing well and we are competitive for a playoff spot. This isn't a complete developmental year where you play guys just to see what they can do. No need to force him back into the lineup now.  

[Patzky]

2 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

No.

Could be done for a day or maybe two but  they won’t go short a reliever for any length of time.

All the speculation is fun but Martin going down and Wallner coming up in the next 10 days seems to be coming more & more real.

Farmer started the year (5 weeks) hitting .085. He’s nearly at .200 7 wee  kg s later and has never really been “hot”. I don’t see him going anywhere ………Dodgers is an interesting thought as it frees up $3M they could apply to a deadline acquisition …..,doubtful.

If Farmer goes I'd love to accommodate him and send him to a 'good' situation.. Dodgers or Reds vs Nats or Astros..

[stringer bell]

Wallner may force his way back (good for him!) and the options are for him to replace Martin, Farmer or Margot. Martin can be optioned and his role is as a platoon OF and possible Buxton replacement. Margot can fill that role as well. Farmer is reduced to platoon second baseman, but an injury would give him reps in the infield. Margot is a platoon OF, has a couple starts in center field and a few starts against right handed pitching, including in the nightcap of the day/night DH on Sunday. There would be arguments to keep any of the three and losing Margot or Farmer would mean they wouldn't be in the organization any longer. 

I like what Martin brings to the table, but his performance as an outfielder has been spotty, at best. It looks like he has the skills to be more than adequate, but he's misplayed a lot of balls. Farmer and Margot have limited, at best, trade value. The Dodgers might give something for his services, but more likely would just pay the rest of his contract. I don't think any team regards Farmer as a potential regular shortstop. 

[Brandon]

We should totally release Farmer at this point for slumping in April.  On April 26th he had a .285 OPS.  Since then he is at .796.  It is the middle of June so we should absolutely release a player for how they did 2 months ago no consideration whatsoever should be given for his play since the slump ended 2 months ago.   

[Maybe Next Year]

Pretty simple. Get rid of Margot and call up Wallner. 

[DJL44]

40 minutes ago, SaberNerd said:

Against RHP, we have Larnach/Kepler/Santana/Miranda at LF/RF/1B/DH.  I don't see which guy I'd take out for Wallner.

You bench Santana and his 680 OPS vs RHP. Santana hits LHP very well but Wallner has to be better than a 700 OPS vs RHP if he wants a job.

[Mike Sixel]

5 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

Wallner may force his way back (good for him!) and the options are for him to replace Martin, Farmer or Margot. Martin can be optioned and his role is as a platoon OF and possible Buxton replacement. Margot can fill that role as well. Farmer is reduced to platoon second baseman, but an injury would give him reps in the infield. Margot is a platoon OF, has a couple starts in center field and a few starts against right handed pitching, including in the nightcap of the day/night DH on Sunday. There would be arguments to keep any of the three and losing Margot or Farmer would mean they wouldn't be in the organization any longer. 

I like what Martin brings to the table, but his performance as an outfielder has been spotty, at best. It looks like he has the skills to be more than adequate, but he's misplayed a lot of balls. Farmer and Margot have limited, at best, trade value. The Dodgers might give something for his services, but more likely would just pay the rest of his contract. I don't think any team regards Farmer as a potential regular shortstop. 

Has anyone ever forced their way on? I feel like they only get called up if there is terrible play at the MLB level, or an injury or trade. I'm ready to move on from Farmer and Margot, but the Twins didn't seem to be. 

[jorgenswest]

15 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Has anyone ever forced their way on? I feel like they only get called up if there is terrible play at the MLB level, or an injury or trade. I'm ready to move on from Farmer and Margot, but the Twins didn't seem to be. 

How would we know? Readiness shouldn’t be evaluated by a small sample so forced can’t be measured by looking at slash stats in AAA. I also wonder whether the AAA schedule a make readiness even less clear. The Saints play the same team for an entire week. A lot of players put up nice numbers against the Louisville pitchers last week with the Saints averaging nearly 8 runs a game. How close were those arms to a major league arm?

I don’t see how we could measure whether a player is forcing there way up or simply feasting on minor league pitches in a small minor league strike zone.

I do hope to see Julien and Wallner return soon. 

[MABB1959]

2 hours ago, terrydactyls said:

Keep going with what they have and give others a chance???  Isn't that a little contradictory?

Meant if they bring anyone else up.

[umterp23]

Let's look at it another way, which I'm not sold one way or the other, but do we see Wallner as the long term solution in a corner outfield role?  Will Kepler be retained on a "potential" team friendly deal to keep him a twin for life?  If so, is Wallner redundant is his best position is RF?  

Would his AAA reclamation warrant a package deal with a high end prospect or two to go after a top end starter for the rotation?

Wallner had a few moments last year but nothing this year.  Same could be said for Julien if we package Wallner with him and a prospect or two.  Do either of them really fit our long term plans?

 

[Mike Sixel]

10 minutes ago, umterp23 said:

Let's look at it another way, which I'm not sold one way or the other, but do we see Wallner as the long term solution in a corner outfield role?  Will Kepler be retained on a "potential" team friendly deal to keep him a twin for life?  If so, is Wallner redundant is his best position is RF?  

Would his AAA reclamation warrant a package deal with a high end prospect or two to go after a top end starter for the rotation?

Wallner had a few moments last year but nothing this year.  Same could be said for Julien if we package Wallner with him and a prospect or two.  Do either of them really fit our long term plans?

 

"a few moments".....on a per game basis he was the 2nd best LFer in the game during his time up in MN. 

I don't get why we suddenly think Julien and Wallner, both of whom have hit at every level, aren't part of the future. 

[DocBauer]

In regard to the OP as written, absolutely not. If Farmer is gone, that leaves Castro as the daily 2B with only Martin as any kind of backup, and he's been spending a lot more time in the OF lately. (Which he should). Wallner replacing Farmer doesn't really make sense from a roster construction point of view. It also takes Castro out if his super utility role.

BTW, while he's nothing close to an offensive force, Farmer has been hitting in the .270's the last 30 days, with an OB% above .320. I don't know if it will last, but he's been playing much better.

I believe Martin and Margot are redundant. One young, has a potential future, but isn't proven yet. The other is a veteran having the worst season of his career but has looked much better as of late, and has been helping. But from a roster construction situation, they are pretty much the same player.

Martin can go down if we need to make a move, or if he looks bad. Of course, he actually needs to play so we can find out. And Margot can be DFA'd if his recent hot streak is an illusion and he goes back to worthless again. 

But one of these guys goes for Wallner, unless there's an injury.

Lee or Julien replaces Farmer at some point, probably. Again, injuries can and do happen.

I'm excited about Wallner getting right again. He can be a big part of the now, and the future. A couple more weeks of doing what he's doing at St Paul won't hurt as the Twins monitor the roster as is for now. More than a couple of things could change over the next couple of weeks.

I do think, at some point, the Twins, as a whole, need to look at the roster for the remainder of this year as well as the future and make a hard decision or two. I mean, does a platoon 2B or 2nd RH utility OF move the needle over a couple younger players with more talent? But Wallner and Farmer really aren’t connected, and a couple weeks of wait and see is probably warranted at this time.

[JD-TWINS]

1 hour ago, Maybe Next Year said:

Pretty simple. Get rid of Margot and call up Wallner. 

Margot (as of Friday) had hit .371 over previous  23 games……….same conversation as DFAing Farmer above …..,,what’s the big picture?? ………..not the knee jerk based on emotion from May 3rd!

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, JD-TWINS said:

Margot (as of Friday) had hit .371 over previous  23 games……….same conversation as DFAing Farmer above …..,,what’s the big picture?? ………..not the knee jerk based on emotion from May 3rd!

The big picture is that neither of them will hit like that going forward, or they'd be top 10 players in baseball......

It isn't one year for Farmer and Margot, and if you worry at all about next year, it should 100% be Martin and Julien up here, so they are good this year and in the future (or they aren't, and we know to go get someone). IMO, of course.

[ashbury]

2 hours ago, SaberNerd said:

Against RHP, we have Larnach/Kepler/Santana/Miranda at LF/RF/1B/DH.  I don't see which guy I'd take out for Wallner.

Good point and maybe it carries the day. 

But if Wallner were added to the roster, at the expense of Farmer, then against a righty you start the above group, and when a LHP is brought in to face Larnach you pinch hit the righty Margot, and then next time around the batting order you have Wallner to counteract the RHP relievers the rest of the way. (Or start Wallner and have Larnach as sub, they're kind of interchangeable even if not identical.)

Don't know if it stretches the talent too thin in the infield. But Farmer just isn't getting the job done at bat and he's no longer better than average at any defensive position to make up for it. The subtraction of Farmer would leave a 40-man spot open to bring someone up (or in) if the need arises.

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, umterp23 said:

Let's look at it another way, which I'm not sold one way or the other, but do we see Wallner as the long term solution in a corner outfield role?  Will Kepler be retained on a "potential" team friendly deal to keep him a twin for life?  If so, is Wallner redundant is his best position is RF?  

Wallner finished last season with less than one year of service time so they have him controlled through 2029 / age 31. They don't need to give him a longer-term deal than that. Better to go year to year with arbitration.

[Parfigliano]

3 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Margot has an OPS > 900 in June (35 PA). Farmer does as well but it's in about half as many plate appearances.

I think they should find both of them a new home but they're not useless this month.

Th best use gained by their good month is using it to off load them while they are hot cause we all know it wont last.

[Road trip]

3 hours ago, SaberNerd said:

Against RHP, we have Larnach/Kepler/Santana/Miranda at LF/RF/1B/DH.  I don't see which guy I'd take out for Wallner.

Farmer has disappointed, but he's irrelevant to this since Wallner doesn't play 2B.

If Larnach was healthy you would have a point, but he's mostly been limited to DH duties all year because of a bad wheel.  Maybe he will be healthy soon, but what we are lately getting instead vs RHP (as recently as Sunday) is Margot in LF, Larnach at DH, and either Miranda or or Santana starting the game on the bench.

[whosafraidofluigirussolo]

4 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

Wasted money with DeSclavani, and Topa, we need to trade if we can or eat the rest of the money due & DFA them.

Both these guys are on the 60-day IL. DeSclafani is out all year and a free agent after the year, so no one is taking on his salary (split between the Twins and Mariners already.) Since he doesn't take up a roster spot, his being in the org has no impact on team construction other than the sunk salary cost.

Topa has team control left after this year. Guessing other teams won't consider him impactful enough to acquire when he's hurt, but when he's healthy enough to rehab and return to the majors, he's probably worth as much to the Twins going forward as to another team - unless clearing the remaining <$1M of this year's salary somehow allows them to acquire a better player at the deadline.

[Road trip]

4 hours ago, Greglw3 said:

Deserving are Correa (total no brainer) and probably Lewis. And quite possibly Joe Ryan.

 

Correa is deserving, but Henderson and Witt Jr are absolutely going to be chosen unless injured.  Then it comes down to Correa vs Seager unless you think the AL is gonna take four shortstops.  And who knows... Yankee fans will probably stuff the box for Volpe.  Added problem: Correa is kinda hated now by every fan outside of Minnesota and Houston, so he won't have a chance if it gets to the fan vote.

I'm increasingly on-board for Lewis as what may be the Twins lone rep.  

[Nshore]

More important than the AAA numbers for Wallner is whether he has shown enough that indicates he would have at least some sort of chance against Major League off speed stuff.  He was totally helpless when sent down.

[twins_89]

The guy who seems to be deserving of a chance but doesn't get much recognition is DaShawn Kierey. He's hitting .302/.390/.538 (.928 OPS) at AAA. He's also is a plus defender in CF and can steal bases pretty well. Being a left handed hitter makes him a good platoon option with Buxton.

[Greglw3]

47 minutes ago, Road trip said:

If Larnach was healthy you would have a point, but he's mostly been limited to DH duties all year because of a bad wheel.  Maybe he will be healthy soon, but what we are lately getting instead vs RHP (as recently as Sunday) is Margot in LF, Larnach at DH, and either Miranda or or Santana starting the game on the bench.

Personally, I’d start Martin ahead of Margot and Miranda ahead of Larnach even vs righties. I think Miranda is a better hitter now than Larnach.

[Greglw3]

10 minutes ago, twins_89 said:

The guy who seems to be deserving of a chance but doesn't get much recognition is DaShawn Kierey. He's hitting .302/.390/.538 (.928 OPS) at AAA. He's also is a plus defender in CF and can steal bases pretty well. Being a left handed hitter makes him a good platoon option with Buxton.

I'd love for Keirsey to get called up ASAP but I keep looking for info on his return from the 7 Day IL (about 3-4 weeks ago) and I can’t find anything.

[Greglw3]

30 minutes ago, Nshore said:

More important than the AAA numbers for Wallner is whether he has shown enough that indicates he would have at least some sort of chance against Major League off speed stuff.  He was totally helpless when sent down.

That's a very good point!

[Greglw3]

44 minutes ago, Road trip said:

Correa is deserving, but Henderson and Witt Jr are absolutely going to be chosen unless injured.  Then it comes down to Correa vs Seager unless you think the AL is gonna take four shortstops.  And who knows... Yankee fans will probably stuff the box for Volpe.  Added problem: Correa is kinda hated now by every fan outside of Minnesota and Houston, so he won't have a chance if it gets to the fan vote.

I'm increasingly on-board for Lewis as what may be the Twins lone rep.  

Yeah, it’s almost like the fan vote has an inverse correlation with reality.

[FlyingFinn]

Twins are playing well and winning. No change needed right now. But Margot, Farmer, and Martin need to play well or it's Wallner time. Martin has the options but the Twins really like having his speed and utility in what used to be the Castro position.

[umterp23]

3 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

"a few moments".....on a per game basis he was the 2nd best LFer in the game during his time up in MN. 

I don't get why we suddenly think Julien and Wallner, both of whom have hit at every level, aren't part of the future. 

Mike I agree, just wondering when we talk about trade value assets and log jam of players, would we not think about those two? I don't have a strong position one way or the other. I like what both can bring to the table and the proverbial "sophomore slump" caught them both early in the season. 

Julien worked hard on defense at 2nd but does it stick.  Wallner if given a chance sooner than later I hope, could be the next one to man the OF for long time.  

Or do we move them and look at our younger assets that people say are better prospects, which on paper maybe but who knows.  We give FO a bunch of grief, but very tough job in my opinion to get them right every time.