Joe Pohlad WCCO radio interview

[CRF]

Joe Po, says it's a no go, to spend the dough. Not a real surprise. Here the link:

https://www.si.com/mlb/twins/news/joe-pohlad-says-twins-wont-splash-cash-on-big-free-agent

[Cory Engelhardt]

I do find it interesting, only that I'd say a MAJORITY of team owners over the last week or so (off the top of my head, cubs, giants, rangers, twins, blue jays) that MAY have been connected to any of the last 4 Boras clients have all basically said the exact same thing to the media, almost verbatim.

I'm NOT saying this is collusion. But I do think enough teams now question how smart it is to spend 100's of millions of dollars on pitchers in their 30's.

Someone is going to get a good player once they blink. Will that good player be good 2 years from now? That's debatable. But we'll see how the rest of the offseason plays out. Also makes me think that is the reason for the holdup of some of the remaining free agents AFTER the big 4 sign. For example, a team isn't going to give Michael Lorenzen money IF they think they have a chance at getting Jordan Montgomery, right?

 

[Cory Engelhardt]

I'll follow up on this; IF the Twins are going to trade for a starter still before the season, I'd have to think they are waiting on Montgomery and Snell to sign right?

For example, IF the Yankees get Snell, maybe they would be up for turning around and trading Nestor Cortes.

Could be a trickle effect for some of these signings that is forcing moves to be on hold, right?

 

Just a thought.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

I am semi glad they ripped the band-aid off.  Payroll is going up next year unless there is a major tear down.  Its the same situation as what I have stated,  last year was a 1 off, this year is a bit of a 1 off.  We will not be participating in FA for any major piece.  The fact we got Correa was an aberration.  In reality for the salaries given so far there was no game changer I wanted.  Sonny's contract was the most reasonable in my opinion. It looks like he was never an option, but we also received draft compensation as well.  

Honestly, to me money aside, this is a better team than going into last year.  Still going to come down to the play on the field.  

[nicksaviking]

13 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

I'll follow up on this; IF the Twins are going to trade for a starter still before the season, I'd have to think they are waiting on Montgomery and Snell to sign right?

For example, IF the Yankees get Snell, maybe they would be up for turning around and trading Nestor Cortes.

Could be a trickle effect for some of these signings that is forcing moves to be on hold, right?

 

Just a thought.

Not sure the Yankees would sign than trade a starter, but the teams currently willing to sell a starter could be waiting to see Snell and Montgomery sign knowing that teams who miss out on them may join the bidding for their pitcher.

[Brandon]

I think what Joe said was obvious.  If you think we are signing a player for 30 million now, (now being that we now have financial commitments), you’re crazy.  I think the best we could have done was. JD Martinez or Ryu.  But Ryu just signed with a KBO team for 3 million give or take as part of a 4 year 12 million contract. I guess we could add Lorenzo but why.  Odorizzi on a minor league deal is ideal.  

[nicksaviking]

I'm guessing he's not trying to be cryptic? But maybe? Either way, I do like that he doesn't say that Falvey is looking at other FREE AGENT players:

"The players that are out there right now, that, probably, a bunch of fans are talking about, we're not in the market for those players," Pohlad told WCCO radio Tuesday afternoon. "But there are definitely other players that can have a positive impact on our team that [president of baseball operations Derek Falvey], I'm sure, is looking at."

I want no one else on the market, hopefully it's trades.

[Mike Sixel]

At least he's being honest.

[Battle ur tail off]

Don't care if they go out and buy players, but the way they have "come off" this offseason has not shown positive on them. Not sure what they were thinking with this message overall.

I would still like to see a trade. I don't think we have enough depth in the rotation, and I'd prefer it be added to the top. Probably not happening at this point as spring training is going already. 

Maybe they will be looking at a deadline deal. Hope ownership/FO understands that the old "window to compete" is open right now, this is going to be a good team again. To fans it looks cheap to not go for it now with the roster we have.

[nicksaviking]

The one thing that has been bugging me today is, why does everyone know what the Guardians and Rangers new TV contract is, but not the Twins? 

Both those teams took a 15% hit so it stands to reason the Twins did too. Obviously, if the Twins want to cut payroll by 30%, they don't want to publicly say that their TV deal was only cut 15%. But still, why would the Guardians and Rangers WANT their figures disclosed? Did they do it intentionally or are the Twins just that much better at keeping a lid on this? Seems unlikely with how much inaccurate babble about TV deals and blackouts came from that side of the Twins operations in the days and weeks leading up to the deal.

[stringer bell]

15 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

The one thing that has been bugging me today is, why does everyone know what the Guardians and Rangers new TV contract is, but not the Twins? 

Both those teams took a 15% hit so it stands to reason the Twins did too. Obviously, if the Twins want to cut payroll by 30%, they don't want to publicly say that their TV deal was only cut 15%. But still, why would the Guardians and Rangers WANT their figures disclosed? Did they do it intentionally or are the Twins just that much better at keeping a lid on this? Seems unlikely with how much inaccurate babble about TV deals and blackouts came from that side of the Twins operations in the days and weeks leading up to the deal.

It could be that the Guards and Rangers had the amount displayed as part of the bankruptcy proceedings. Since the Twins were not under contract with Bally/Diamond, perhaps both sides are able to not disclose the exact amount. 

[tony&rodney]

14 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

why does everyone know what the Guardians and Rangers new TV contract is, but not the Twins? 

The numbers for those clubs may be sheer speculation, much like has been done (mol) on TD. The deal, (supposedly or at least as published) included a non disclosure addendum on spilling or reporting details for all of the teams. 

[MMMordabito]

I'm all about some schadenfreude at the expense of Boras.  Would love to see all four guys fire him, and then have the Twins extend Lewis while he's trying to save face.  He (like the Orange Goblin Freak Daddy) appears to be made of teflon, so this is all likely a pipe dream of mine.

Also, INB4 "Why? He's trying to get the most for the players."

I think he's trying to get the most for Boras.

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

Pham and Lorenzen. Not what I want to happen, but what I think will happen.

[Cory Engelhardt]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

I'm guessing he's not trying to be cryptic? But maybe? Either way, I do like that he doesn't say that Falvey is looking at other FREE AGENT players:

"The players that are out there right now, that, probably, a bunch of fans are talking about, we're not in the market for those players," Pohlad told WCCO radio Tuesday afternoon. "But there are definitely other players that can have a positive impact on our team that [president of baseball operations Derek Falvey], I'm sure, is looking at."

I want no one else on the market, hopefully it's trades.

Agreed with this 100%. 

I mean, if you were asking me if I wanted Jordan Montgomery or Jesus Luzardo more, the answer is 100% Luzardo right? There are other pitchers, that have been rumored to be available, who I would also prefer to acquire.

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

And Pohlad's comments, meh, no surprise. Snell is going to get 5+ years from someone. Montgomery as well. Correa hates Bellinger so he was never going to be in Twins' plans. And Chapman, no real spot for him. I give him credit because he's kind of falling on his sword for no reason. Twins' fans shouldn't have had expectations for those players and if they did, welp, reality called...

[Azviking101]

Since the year 2000, 3 teams have won a WS with a bottom half of the league payroll with only one of those teams being lower than 18 (Marlins)

twins have had a top half of the league payroll 2 of those years and I bet we all can guess what those years were. 
Joe’s comments suggest the Twins desire to be in the bottom third of the league in payroll. This is a spot that is almost impossible to win a World Series. 
 

winning a title has never been a goal and we shouldn’t ever expect one with the Pohlad’s in charge. 

[DocBauer]

Without going in to the usual can't/won't payroll discussion, I'd rather have openness and honesty. Falvey was honest when the offseason began and Joe was honest in his interview.

I do think there are a trio of interesting RH OF FA the Twins are still considering, and with good reason. Even Baldelli has commented about that being a hole on the roster. 

I do think there's a strong chance we still see a veteran SP on a milb deal to prove they're on the comeback trail. Costs you nothing but a split deal that surely won't pay much if they come up. 

I don't think there's any real chance they sign any of the remaining big 4 FA. Maybe 10% if someone like Wheeler wants a 1yr and see if/how the market re-sets next year? MAYBE a 2 or 3yr deal with an opt out each of the first 2 seasons like Correa signed? But that might be more risk than the Twins want to take.

They will always be open to a trade if it makes sense. Is there a trade out there that can bring in an arm without having to cost the Twins any of their top 5 prospects? 

[CRF]

I don't know about signing Pham, but I think Lorenzen is a decent bet. I don't believe they're done adding quite yet, it's just a question of who. 

[KirbyDome89]

"But there are definitely other players that can have a positive impact on our team that [president of baseball operations Derek Falvey], I'm sure, is looking at."

The optimistic view points to trades. If this team is going to "live where they're at," or however the hell it was phrased, i.e. they're capped, Idk what type of impact player they'll trade for that won't affect the "right sized," payroll, while also providing the type of control this FO obviously covets. Good luck. A Luplow or Keuchel could just as easily fit the "positive impact," bill as far as this team is concerned....

"You see that both with the Tampa Bay Rays and with the Baltimore Orioles having lower payrolls, turning out very successful products on the field but also investing in other areas of the business. That is something that we are doing. But without a question the television situation is having an impact on our business but beyond that we're just trying to right-size our business. That goes into it as well."

Problem solved guys, just develop like TB or have Baltimore's farm system + young MLB talent. Hilarious. 

"What I will say about some flexibility is, when Derek (Falvey) and his team think there is the right opportunity in front of us, we don't live hard and fast by a specific number."

Like coming off your first postseason W in nearly two decades? With a promising group of young players? While also having established veterans at or near their prime? Do these guys hear themselves talk?

[Cris E]

Last June I wrote this on this site:

Quote

Billions of dollars went to free agent contracts last winter and I gotta tell you that Lopez has been as good as most. Degrom, 5 years $185m, Tommy John. Verlander, 2 years $86m, injured over the winter, only 9 starts, 4.50 ERA.  Rodon, 6 years $162m, injured. Kershaw was only going to sign with the Dodgers, so the money isn't the point with him but he has been pretty good (15 starts, 3.61 ERA). Bassitt  3 years $63m, 15 starts 4.32 ERA. Syndergaard 1 year, $13m, 12 starts 55 innings, 7.16 ERA, terrible. Wainwright was only going to re-sign with the Cards and has already announced this is his last year, but he's been terrible too (6.56 ERA.) 

That's not any cherry picking, that's all the starting pitchers in the first list of top 2022 free agents I came across. After almost half a season one guy has taken the ball every time out and produced an ERA under 4.00. One. 

Several of those guys righted things and finished OK, but none were close to being in the running for a Cy Young.  Montgomery and Snell were very good in 2023, but neither feel like the solid foundational guys you build a roster around at the price they're holding out for. Belinger and Chapman are even less likely to be that guy.  When Pohlad says we're not signing expensive free agents he's mostly saying we're not signing these expensive free agents. I believe not spending now means they can make a move later in the year if things change, but p*ssing away a bunch of money on a low leverage name like JD Martinez might mean we can;t.

[KirbyHawk75]

I am so turned off by the Twins right now after the TV deal that screwed thousands and thousands of fans.  This doesn't help.  I am so turned off by the Twins and MLB right now.  I am an idiot and will still be a fan.  But I wonder how many fans will be turned away permanently?  

[Major League Ready]

18 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

The one thing that has been bugging me today is, why does everyone know what the Guardians and Rangers new TV contract is, but not the Twins? 

Both those teams took a 15% hit so it stands to reason the Twins did too. Obviously, if the Twins want to cut payroll by 30%, they don't want to publicly say that their TV deal was only cut 15%. But still, why would the Guardians and Rangers WANT their figures disclosed? Did they do it intentionally or are the Twins just that much better at keeping a lid on this? Seems unlikely with how much inaccurate babble about TV deals and blackouts came from that side of the Twins operations in the days and weeks leading up to the deal.

IDK all that much about bankruptcy law but I would think Bally's had to satisfy the court in settling with the Guardians and Rangers.  The Twins no longer had a contract.  Therefore, their negotiation was purely about the market for their TV rights.    Those other teams would appear to have been in a better negotiating position so it does not necessarily stand to reason the Twins took the exact same percentage of reduction.  It did not seem like the Twins had any serious suitors for their broadcast rights.

Just a point of clarification .... At this point, they cut payroll by 20%, not 30%.  We will see if that's the final number in the next couple weeks but there is no need to exaggerate.  

[weneedneshek]

1 hour ago, Major League Ready said:

Just a point of clarification .... At this point, they cut payroll by 20%, not 30%.  We will see if that's the final number in the next couple weeks but there is no need to exaggerate.  

Current payroll is down from $159M to $112M, attached source is Spotrac. This represents a 29.56% cut

[Major League Ready]

1 hour ago, weneedneshek said:

Current payroll is down from $159M to $112M, attached source is Spotrac. This represents a 29.56% cut

The $112K number is for 19 players.  You purposefully omitted the projected number which includes an estimate for the other 8 players assuming Dobnak does not make the team.  You are also using the total salaries for all the payers that were paid last year as compared to the 2024 snapshot which of course does not include the expenses that have not occurred yet.  That amount is roughly $10M.  The 2024 team will spend a similar amount but that's not in your comparison. This is not an apples-to-apples comparison.    It's really quite easy to only use information that supports a particular point.  It's a little harder to sift through the information to present an accurate representation of the situation.

[weneedneshek]

4 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

The $112K number is for 19 players.  You purposefully omitted the projected number which includes an estimate for the other 8 players assuming Dobnak does not make the team.  You are also using the total salaries for all the payers that were paid last year as compared to the 2024 snapshot which of course does not include the expenses that have not occurred yet.  The 2024 team will spend a similar amount but that's not in your comparison. This is not an apples-to-apples comparison.    It's really quite easy to only use information that supports a particular point.  It's a little harder to sift through the information to present an accurate representation of the situation.

Ah okay so with the projected pre arb numbers we are at... $117M. That makes the cut 26.42% still closer to 30 than the 20 you stated. Of course we can't add in future numbers we don't know about yet, they also might even offload players if we aren't competitive.

[Puckett34]

Pohlad's comments has a sour taste in my mouth.  It just seems...tone deaf.  I get the business aspect and respect it.  Were the Twins coming off a down year and not the first playoff series win in 20+ years, I'd be more understanding.  Between these comments and the lack of decent (cheap/ala cart options) streaming.  Considering not making my annual trek to Target Field.  Will I probably go? Still likely, but not nearly as excited.

I guess I appreciate the transparency. 

[Major League Ready]

On 2/22/2024 at 9:05 AM, weneedneshek said:

Ah okay so with the projected pre arb numbers we are at... $117M. That makes the cut 26.42% still closer to 30 than the 20 you stated. Of course we can't add in future numbers we don't know about yet, they also might even offload players if we aren't competitive.

No.  Once again, you are only looking only at what you want to see.  You are comparing a total of all of the players paid last year to the 26 players that will be on the opening day roster.  I am not going to take the time to go through the details to get an exact number but that amount was roughly $11M last year which makes the appropriate comparison more like $149M.  The Spotrac number appears to assume Dobnak makes the 26 man.  They are $740K shy if this is not true (see below).  which is a 20.9%  reduction.

 

[weneedneshek]

5 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

No.  Once again, you are only looking only at what you want to see.  You are comparing a total of all of the payers paid last year to the 26 players that will be on the opening day roster.  I am not going to take the time to go through the details to get an exact number but that amount was roughly $11M last year which makes the appropriate comparison more like $149M.  The Spotrac number appears to assume Dobnak makes the 26 man.  They are $740K shy if this is not true (see below).  which is a 20.9%  reduction.

 

I honestly would like to understand that $11M more since it makes up the difference between us, is it the replacements they add to the 26 man for injured players during the season? The people filling those roles are typically close to the minimum so would be hard to see that equaling $11M, although I'm sure it would be a few million

[Major League Ready]

37 minutes ago, weneedneshek said:

I honestly would like to understand that $11M more since it makes up the difference between us, is it the replacements they add to the 26 man for injured players during the season? The people filling those roles are typically close to the minimum so would be hard to see that equaling $11M, although I'm sure it would be a few million

They used almost 50 players.  If you look through all of the sections on Spotrac you will see how much salary was payed to injured players and retained salaries.  They also put people like Winder / Sands / Celestino / Balazovic, etc in Minor League Salaries.  I looked at it quickly.  Maybe it's only 9 million or maybe it's 12.  A couple million bucks was not the point as much as that lots of numbers are being thrown around as long as they fit a narrative without proper context and comparison.

The real head scratcher is that I looked on Spotrac and the 2023 summary I used showed $156M and the Spotrac summary you showed was $159M .  The one you used is on the top and I was looking at the one further down.  I have not tried to figure out the difference yet.

2023 Payroll Totals

 

PAYROLL TYPE			BASE SALARY	SIGNING BONUS	INCENTIVES	TOTAL SALARY	TOTAL ADJ. SALARY
Active Payroll			$81,059,350	$125,000	$800,000	$81,984,350	$77,967,521
Injured List Money			$71,296,550	$1,476,190	-	$72,772,740	$71,263,008
Retained Salary			$3,421,766	-	-	$3,421,766	$3,421,766
Buried Minor Salary			$7,307,100	-	-	$7,307,100	$3,452,245
Active Total Payroll			$163,084,766	$1,601,190	$800,000	$165,485,956	$156,104,540