Why on Earth Won't the Twins Move Edouard Julien to First Base?

[strumdatjag]

Keep using Julien sparingly at 2B and more a DH (along with Buxton if or when he returns from Il).   With Lee approaching MLB readiness and Buxton with a no-trade clause, the Twins must seriously look at trading Julien in the off-season to a team wowed by his offensive numbers. 

[chpettit19]

You still need good hands, and feet, to play 1B. Those are things Julien doesn't have. As others have said, he doesn't at all look like he'd be a good candidate for saving poor throws from his IF teammates. I read him playing 181 innings at 1B in the minors, and likely the 119.2 in LF as well, and them seeming to have no intention of putting him back at those spots, as it being pretty clear that he's worse in those spots than at 2B. Which is entirely possible. I don't want to see him try to work his feet on a throw up the line the way he'd have to to try to stretch for a miss-thrown ball, and then also have to pick that throw out of the dirt with his hands. There's nothing at all with the way he moves, and how his hands work, that suggest he could handle 1B. 

With the IF logjam we hope (<-still a really important word here) is coming, I'd think LF and CF are the open spots (assuming Wallner is first in line to take long-term RF duties at this point) most up for grabs right now. I'd think getting Julien and/or Lewis an offseason of OF work is the better move than figuring out how to fit them all on the IF. 

Edited to add: I also don't understand the calls for trading Julien. This team has no business trading young, controllable bats that are better than basically all of their short-term vets. Trade a young bat with 5 or 6 years of control left for a bullpen arm?! Come on now. This team needs so much offense, but people want to trade Julien? I don't get it.

[GNess]

It was this sort of thinking that propelled anxiety with Arraez. Where do the Twins play him? The Marlins have played him at 2B regularly - something the Twins wouldn't do. (Yes, Polanco was the 2B for some of Arraez's time here.) When a rookie hits and shows the plate discipline such as Julien - you do the most obvious thing; You work with him to get better at his most logical position. 

The Twins clearly have thought about this - that is why Julien played a lot of 2B in the minors.

Getting Lewis back and Lee in the future are total positives even though they create "Who's on first?" type questions. Having surplus talent isn't a bad thing - ever.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

2 hours ago, thelanges5 said:

Lewis 3B

Polo 2B

Julien 1B

seems like a good idea to me. could’ve been working on this to get ready for Lewis coming back. maybe better for the off season than mid season. 

I like this idea for now, but it seems likely someone will be traded during the offseason.  

[Parfigliano]

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

1) Buxton has a no-trade clause as part of the contract

2) No other team wants Buxton if he can't play defense

I wish I would stop seeing people make this suggestion. It has no basis in reality.

No trade clause means Buxton can veto a trade.  He can be traded he just has to agree to it.

If reality is he cant be traded because noboby wants him because he cant play defense why waste a roster spot on him?  

[BsuNemo]

They did exactly this with Arraez.

Also, why can't Rocco know when to put someone on IR... I said the same thing last year. We could've had a playable player on our bench the last week of Solano would've been put on the IL... Now Castro too... Day to day means can't play right now which means we're now two players short handed... 

Everything this organization does bucks the norm and usually does not work. From terrible trades, to bringing in washed up vets instead of letting the young players play, to keeping players in the minors their entire careers, to bullpen usage, no consistency in the lineup, players regressing throughout the year... So many red flags. They've had enough time and have shown they are incapable of producing or growing a team that can play at or above their potential. Next

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, MGM4706 said:

Pitching Reports may be catching up to him. 0-12? Same happened to Miranda.

 

1 hour ago, MGM4706 said:

Wow! Some poor assumptions made in this take.

12 AB's only tells you something if you already believe what you think its telling you. 

Arraez went 0-12 from June 12 to June 14. Actually 1 for 17 from June 11 to June 14.

Was it those piching reports catching up with him? 

[arby58]

2 hours ago, DJL44 said:

It takes less skill than playing 2B. It's hope that they can salvage some defensive value from Julien by playing him at the easiest infield position. If he can't play 1B then he's a 24 year old platoon DH who doesn't hit lefties. That's hard to carry with just 13 roster spots for position players.

Julien is also having a pretty bad August so far (507 OPS). I might consider sending him back to AAA when Lewis returns.

It takes different skills. It's nice if you're left-handed (Kirilloff is). It's nice if you're tall (Gallo is 6'5" and Kirilloff is two inches taller than Julien at 6'2"). Julien isn't either of those. Then it becomes hands, footwork, practice. Nothing suggests Julien is a great fielder - at any position.

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, MGM4706 said:

Bring up Brooks Lee Sept 1 and get him ready for for 2024

Brooks Lee is in AAA getting ready for 2024. It's plenty challenging for him as a hitter.

[DJL44]

54 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I read him playing 181 innings at 1B in the minors, and likely the 119.2 in LF as well, and them seeming to have no intention of putting him back at those spots, as it being pretty clear that he's worse in those spots than at 2B. Which is entirely possible.

He's unplayable at 2B for a whole season. If that's his best position, then he doesn't have one. LF would be a better choice simply because they get fewer chances to screw up than 2B. They made the 2B decision before the rules changes about infield shifting. Now 2B range matters again and Julien doesn't have enough range.

[jorgenswest]

2 hours ago, DJL44 said:

It takes less skill than playing 2B. It's hope that they can salvage some defensive value from Julien by playing him at the easiest infield position. If he can't play 1B then he's a 24 year old platoon DH who doesn't hit lefties. That's hard to carry with just 13 roster spots for position players.

Julien is also having a pretty bad August so far (507 OPS). I might consider sending him back to AAA when Lewis returns.

We disagree on first base. I believe it is a different skill set than 2B and not a lower bar of ease. More players have adequate skills to play 1B as a player can throw left or right handed so it should be easier to find a 1B but I don’t believe everyone can more easily play 1B just because they play elsewhere.

[Craig Arko]

I guess the question is: can Julien’s defense be improved, probably in the offseason and Spring training next year, to make him an adequate defender at any position? A ton of reps and individualized coaching? A lot of players who started badly improved over time.

[chpettit19]

16 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

He's unplayable at 2B for a whole season. If that's his best position, then he doesn't have one. LF would be a better choice simply because they get fewer chances to screw up than 2B. They made the 2B decision before the rules changes about infield shifting. Now 2B range matters again and Julien doesn't have enough range.

I don't know if he can read a fly ball. If he can't and he's turning flyouts into doubles I'm not sure LF is the better choice. I have to assume he was brutal in LF if they haven't tried him there again. They put Arraez out there, and move guys around like crazy. Him being the 1 guy they aren't willing to move around says they think 2B is his only shot at having a position. And I agree, it doesn't look like he has a position. But if he can hit like they hope I'd keep him as the primary DH who can fill in at 2B a couple times a week.

[chpettit19]

35 minutes ago, BsuNemo said:

They did exactly this with Arraez.

Also, why can't Rocco know when to put someone on IR... I said the same thing last year. We could've had a playable player on our bench the last week of Solano would've been put on the IL... Now Castro too... Day to day means can't play right now which means we're now two players short handed... 

Everything this organization does bucks the norm and usually does not work. From terrible trades, to bringing in washed up vets instead of letting the young players play, to keeping players in the minors their entire careers, to bullpen usage, no consistency in the lineup, players regressing throughout the year... So many red flags. They've had enough time and have shown they are incapable of producing or growing a team that can play at or above their potential. Next

FYI, Rocco doesn't put anyone on the IL. It's not his job.

[DJL44]

7 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I agree, it doesn't look like he has a position. But if he can hit like they hope I'd keep him as the primary DH who can fill in at 2B a couple times a week.

I want the Twins to trade him for pitching like the Rays did when they dumped Delmon Young on the Twins.

[BsuNemo]

5 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

FYI, Rocco doesn't put anyone on the IL. It's not his job.

If you think he has no input then you're blind. He absolutely has a say... "hey front office I'm two players short, I need that fixed" 

[chpettit19]

2 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I want the Twins to trade him for pitching like the Rays did when they dumped Delmon Young on the Twins.

I think he's better than a 98 OPS+ hitter so I wouldn't view it as "dumping" him on another team. But if you think he maxes out as Delmon Young then I understand that stance.

[chpettit19]

Just now, BsuNemo said:

If you think he has no input then you're blind. He absolutely has a say... "hey front office I'm two players short, I need that fixed" 

I'm not blind. Does Rocco discuss players with the FO? Of course he does. But the FO doesn't need Rocco to tell them who's available and who's not. He absolutely is not telling them who to call up and send down and IL. That is factually incorrect on how things work. I promise you. The medical people tell them all who's available, who's not, and how long the injuries are likely to be a problem.

FYI, Solano just hit so I'm pretty sure they're not short 2 guys.

[Riverbrian]

Interesting discussion before a game that features Christian Vazquez and Jake Cave playing 1B. 

[Rod Carews Birthday]

I think that declaring one position as being defensively much more difficult than another sells the situation a little short.  Yes.  Certainly it is much more difficult to play SS than RF in some ways, but each position does have it’s own unique set of skills that require some trial and practice to become accomplished.  

In my former life as a band director, parents (and students) came to me many times asking for advice and input on which instrument they should learn to play, often with the question of which would be easiest.  What I found was that there are instruments that one can become “OK” at pretty quickly and ones that have a steeper learning curve so that it takes longer.  It’s why no one really likes to hear a fifth grade oboe player but a fifth grade saxophone player doesn’t necessarily sound that bad.  What is often underestimated, however, is that getting really good at either instrument is roughly the same difficulty and takes roughly the same amount of time.  The other factor, of course, is someone’s physical/mental suitability to a particular instrument.  They all take slightly different skills.  I think it’s the same with baseball positions.  A strong athlete can probably become an “OK” defender at an “easier” position, but will take much more time to become truly good at it.  Add in a player’s specific physical/mental characteristics and assignments up and down the defensive spectrum become much more difficult to simply just assign.  They all take slightly different skills.

Do I think Julien can play 1B?  Yes — in the future.  Do I think handing him a glove and saying good luck at the MLB level is a good idea in the late stages of his rookie season?  No way.  Polanco, as a long term veteran player, probably makes more sense if you need a quick/emergency move to keep people in the lineup.  

[gman]

Get in the wayback machine. Rod Carew was not considered a good defender. He had double digit errors every year while a regular at second base. About 1973 or 74 he had 30+ errors at second. The next year they started moving him to first base. You wouldn't move him because he was the best hitter in the league.

There are plenty of exercises to improve feet and hands, most involve martial arts. If Julian is going to be the full time second baseman for multiple years, then I think its best to get him as flexible as possible for the position.

He doesn't remind me of Rod Carew, more like Jeff Kent.

[old nurse]

1 hour ago, BsuNemo said:

If you think he has no input then you're blind. He absolutely has a say... "hey front office I'm two players short, I need that fixed" 

Input is far different than making the call

[Doctor Gast]

Julien has played 1B in the minors. It has made perfect sense the last couple of years with the fore seeable quality depth we had at 2B of Polanco, Martin, Lewis & Lee and Julien was a stretch there. To move Julien off 2B & focus his efforts at 1B to perfect his mechanics there. But like Polanco at SS & 3B, Martin at SS, Cave in CF they get the crazy idea that they put these guys in positions where they are overstretched & double down on those ideas.

Hopefully they wake up & stop wasting their time on lame brain ideas & stop doubling down on them.

[roger]

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

I want the Twins to trade him for pitching like the Rays did when they dumped Delmon Young on the Twins.

Ouch!  Did you have to remind us of that trade.

[Greglw3]

Julien has now been playing well at 2B. Improving rapidly. No need for a move.

[Hashim]

6 hours ago, tony&amp;rodney said:

There seems to be a general trend on Twins Daily that Julien should be playing first base or used as a DH. This naturally begs the question of what to do with Kirilloff and/or Buxton. Maybe one of Kirilloff or Julien should be used in a trade if either Kirilloff or Julien are not going to have a slot in the lineup. 

August is likely not a good time to put a player at a new position. As has been discussed in many previous posts, the Twins have a number of decisions to make going forward about who slots where defensively (Kirilloff, Julien, Polanco, Lewis, Lee, Miranda). Three infield positions are open with six players looking to play full time. I am not including those who may be seen as best used in a utility role (Farmer, Solano, Castro, Gordon, Prato, Martin). Expect a trade or two this offseason. For now, the Twins will play out the schedule in the manner we have seen thus far.

Agreed. Kirillof will be back and first base is his natural position and he’s a much better defender. They have a lot of decisions to make this offseason because Buxton is taking up too many DH reps and Brooks Lee, Severino are coming through and Miranda is still our young player that’s also defensively limited. 

[AceWrigley]

Have Julien practice juggling, its great for improving rhythm, coordination, first touch, body control and even brain development.

[dxpavelka]

Seems like more of a move that you make after handing him a 1B glove in November and telling him he'll be a 1B in March, figure it out.  Worth remembering that the last guy who got moved from 2B to 1B cuz he could hit but not play defense got traded not long thereafter.  P.S.  180 MILB innings is NOT a lot. 

[Coach Wheels]

The Twins are already hiding Solano, Kiriloff, and possibly Miranda at 1st base. They can't hide everybody

[Patzky]

3 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Interesting discussion before a game that features Christian Vazquez and Jake Cave playing 1B. 

Yesterday they said Gallo couldn't hit. Today they said Julien couldn't field.

 

Oh and Gallo closes things down at the end..