José Berríos Traded to Blue Jays

[Mike Sixel]

8 of the Twins top 10 prospects are in AA or AAA, according to FGs.....this isn't a tear down. Yet (hopefully not at all).

[mikelink45]

I do not know prospects - all the lists mean nothing.  What percent of great prospects make great MLB players.  I can only wait and see, but prospects for next year have definitely taken a hit and what will we do this year?  Bring up Shoemaker?   The only thing that makes the rest of the season interesting is if they play our prospects.  Give us a hope for the future.

[h2oface]

This is a great trade for those that like to talk about prospects and write prospect books. Not so great if you want players that acutally improve the MLB team. Will they? No one knows, and certainly won't that soon. Does this team need MLB pitching now? Certainly. Will we see a bunch of 1 year contracts of mediocre replacement level or less pitchers next year to be tortured with as filler while we wait? That's my bet. Can't wait for 2022.

Year 5 (is it 5? something like that) of the Falvine reign, and the MLB team is getting worse. But the pitching is coming, right? They are pitching experts.... it has to be coming, right?

[whosafraidofluigirussolo]

Berríos was set to start for the Twins tonight. If I'm not mistaken, this deal will open a spot on the 40-man roster.

Any chance we see Winder debut tonight?

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, whosafraidofluigirussolo said:

Berríos was set to start for the Twins tonight. If I'm not mistaken, this deal will open a spot on the 40-man roster.

Any chance we see Winder debut tonight?

Barnes. book it.

[jmlease1]

7 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Fangraphs is sliding Martin down to 59th on their list! We'll get a write up later today.....

 

Name names for who they talked to, or I'm calling BS. What if the people they talked to were from the Toronto FO looking to cover their asses on the deal by trying to cast some shade on the guy they just gave up? Halfway through the guy's first professional season and they're gonna re-do his ranking? I hope he hits a bunch of dingers immediately and they flip back again, that'd be pretty funny.

We'll see how this turns out, but the value seems pretty good here in the deal. I'm sure plenty of people will find reasons to have the entire Twins front office dismissed.

[Rigby]

It will be interesting to see the development paths of Martin, Groshans and Martinez. Hope we identified the best one.

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, jmlease1 said:

Name names for who they talked to, or I'm calling BS. What if the people they talked to were from the Toronto FO looking to cover their asses on the deal by trying to cast some shade on the guy they just gave up? Halfway through the guy's first professional season and they're gonna re-do his ranking? I hope he hits a bunch of dingers immediately and they flip back again, that'd be pretty funny.

We'll see how this turns out, but the value seems pretty good here in the deal. I'm sure plenty of people will find reasons to have the entire Twins front office dismissed.

Moving him to 59 is hardly a major slight.......I'm guessing they talk to a lot of people....and they can't name names. 

[Rigby]

1 minute ago, jmlease1 said:

Name names for who they talked to, or I'm calling BS. What if the people they talked to were from the Toronto FO looking to cover their asses on the deal by trying to cast some shade on the guy they just gave up? Halfway through the guy's first professional season and they're gonna re-do his ranking? I hope he hits a bunch of dingers immediately and they flip back again, that'd be pretty funny.

We'll see how this turns out, but the value seems pretty good here in the deal. I'm sure plenty of people will find reasons to have the entire Twins front office dismissed.

Much like BTV, their ratings magically change after the trade.

[nicksaviking]

14 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Fangraphs is sliding Martin down to 59th on their list! We'll get a write up later today.....

 

Dang, starting to sound like what they were saying about Trea Turner as a prospect. Bummer.

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, nicksaviking said:

Dang, starting to sound like what they were saying about Trae Turner. Bummer.

right......

[Whitey333]

I totally disagree.  Yes some of the players you mentioned are good and we should keep them.  I'm talking about stiffs like Cave, Sano, Rubles, Colome', etc. Etc Al.  Still too many stiffs some with expiring contracts.  I'm saying those prospects better produce or it will go down as another blown opportunity.  

[ashbury]

4 minutes ago, h2oface said:

This is a great trade for those that like to talk about prospects and write prospect books. Not so great if you want players that acutally improve the MLB team. Will they? No one knows

Are you looking for certainty, in a world that offers none? Andrelton Simmons was expected to be a known quantity, great glove and acceptable bat, and the bat for sure (the glove arguably) has disappointed. Happ and Shoemaker, no world beaters, could be expected on their records to have provided workmanlike innings at minimum.  That's just off the top of my head - no ballplayer offers guarantees.

[Mill1634]

As painful as it is to see the Twins in a position where trading Jose is even a possibility, it was the right move. I had my doubts on him signing an extension, and his value will never be higher. The Twins did fantastic on this trade. Martin needs to develop his power in order to live up to his prospect pedigree, but he's as good as the Twins are going to do. SWR is a wildcard, as he's so young for his level but has struggled and doesn't have fantastic stuff. All in all, I am happy with the trade.

Also, I'll be updating the prospect list all day today

 

1. Royce Lewis

2. Austin Martin

3. Jordan Balazovic

4. Simeon Woods-Richardson

5. Josh Winder

6. Chase Petty

7. Jhoan Duran

8. Joe ryan 

9. Jose Miranda

10. Matt Canterino

11. Aaron Sabato

12. Keoni Cavaco

13. Gilberto Celestino

14. Matt Walner

15.  Noah Miller

16. Masial Urbina

17. Drew Strotman

18. Bailey Ober

19. Brent Rooker

20.. Steve Hajjar

 

 

[Cap'n Piranha]

37 minutes ago, notoriousgod71 said:

• This trade only makes me hate baseball more.

 

Martin will be ok but Woods Richardson has been awful. Berrios is as certain a thing as there is.

 

This is true.  It is certain that Berrios would have left the Twins for nothing after 2022.  It is also certain that Berrios is not somehow immune to blowing out his arm on any given pitch.

[Otto von Ballpark]

2 minutes ago, jmlease1 said:

Name names for who they talked to, or I'm calling BS. What if the people they talked to were from the Toronto FO looking to cover their asses on the deal by trying to cast some shade on the guy they just gave up? Halfway through the guy's first professional season and they're gonna re-do his ranking? I hope he hits a bunch of dingers immediately and they flip back again, that'd be pretty funny.

I don’t think there is any reason to suspect anything nefarious from Fangraphs. Prospect evaluators have been overwhelmed the past few weeks with the draft — I think BA hadn’t even published most of their midseason lists yet. Besides, preseason 40 (with zero pro experience) to midseason 59 is not a huge shift — basically just a value step down from 55 to 50 FV.

[Nashvilletwin]

The Twins are stockpiling a lot of solid talent at a very low cost with a possible eye on 2023-4. They went for it in 2020-1, but this year didn’t pan out. It happens and now restocking for another solid window is prudent (particularly for small-mid market teams).

But the key is to now resign Buxton. The lineup in 2023 could have Buxton (C) Lewis (SS) Martin (LF) Miranda (3B) Kiriloff (1B), Larnach (RF), Arraez (2B), and probably some combo of 2 of our 3 catchers.  Maybe some of Gordon, Rooker, Kepler, Sano, and Polanco are still around. But, with the exception of Buxton, the starting eight fielders are essentially at league minimum.

In addition, the starting pitching lineup could be very similar with 3-4 good young starters making league minimum in 2023.  

This sets up nicely for having the capital available to get a few good veterans in ‘23 or ‘24 to make a good run. Who knows, maybe Berrios is one of them.

Lets hope for a few more trades today and resigning Buxton.
 

[Cap'n Piranha]

31 minutes ago, howeda7 said:

Except we'll trade Kiriloff, Larnach and Belazovich in 2025 to save $ and get prospects for "the future."

Works for the Rays.

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, Whitey333 said:

I totally disagree.  Yes some of the players you mentioned are good and we should keep them.  I'm talking about stiffs like Cave, Sano, Rubles, Colome', etc. Etc Al.  Still too many stiffs some with expiring contracts.  I'm saying those prospects better produce or it will go down as another blown opportunity.  

Of course if they don't work out it will be bad....but man*, some posters here just hate the idea of trading even expiring contracts, yet somehow want the team to have a great team (not sure where they expect to get players, frankly).

*not just men, but women, and not necessarily you.

[Otto von Ballpark]

9 minutes ago, Rigby said:

Much like BTV, their ratings magically change after the trade.

BTV uses Fangraphs valuations as part of their formula, and I know BTV updates them monthly around this part of the season. Why shouldn’t they update, with new information?

[Brock Beauchamp]

1 hour ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

A trade for low minors players

wont be able to judge the trade for several more years

well played, falvine. well played

Both players are in AA so they're relatively close to MLB.

[jmlease1]

3 minutes ago, Mill1634 said:

As painful as it is to see the Twins in a position where trading Jose is even a possibility, it was the right move. I had my doubts on him signing an extension, and his value will never be higher. The Twins did fantastic on this trade. Martin needs to develop his power in order to live up to his prospect pedigree, but he's as good as the Twins are going to do. SWR is a wildcard, as he's so young for his level but has struggled and doesn't have fantastic stuff. All in all, I am happy with the trade.

Also, I'll be updating the prospect list all day today

 

1. Royce Lewis

2. Austin Martin

3. Jordan Balazovic

4. Simeon Woods-Richardson

5. Josh Winder

6. Chase Petty

7. Jhoan Duran

8. Joe ryan 

9. Jose Miranda

10. Matt Canterino

11. Aaron Sabato

12. Keoni Cavaco

13. Gilberto Celestino

14. Matt Walner

15.  Noah Miller

16. Masial Urbina

17. Drew Strotman

18. Bailey Ober

19. Brent Rooker

20.. Steve Hajjar

 

 

Sabato is waaaaaay too high. I'm sorry, he's been terrible at the plate in low A. His value is entirely in his bat and all he can do is draw walks right now. Just no.

[ashbury]

21 minutes ago, Otto von Ballpark said:

Shortstops can often move to other positions successfully.

Indeed. Shortstops with questionable arms almost always do.

[specialiststeve]

Get a Tampa Bay feeling going here... for the good... Getting great depth at SP... trade guys that are a year out and get great haul... hopefully we can see some of these guys as the geriatric department of the Twins pitching staff needs to retire... 

 

[Dman]

I wouldn't worry too much about Martin's power.  It is generally the last tool to develop.  The Twins are really good at developing guys to hit for power as well.  The most important thing early is eye at the plate and he seems to have it.  A good eye will get your OBP up and forces pitchers to throw quality strikes in the zone giving better pitches to hit.  This is literally his first year in Pro ball and he is holding his own at AA.  How many players have done that?  Maybe Swarber or Bryant?  It is rare for a player to do that well at that high of a level this early.

I knew he likely wouldn't be a fit at SS but he has decent speed so he should be able to play there. I just wouldn't expect great defensive numbers from him if he does play there.  The Twins have lot's of infield guys that can play a variety of positions and so they can mix and match players and he will only help with that.  He likely is Gordons replacement once he is ready and they will work him in as a regular from there.

I honestly thought Groshans was as high as Toronto would go so didn't do much research on Martin but I think this was a really good get for the Twins.

[operation mindcrime]

15 minutes ago, ashbury said:

We got Aston Martin! My heart is beating faster now!

These are two highly ranked prospects, no question. But the high-upside comes with questions on both.

Big questions about Martin's arm - left field and 2B aren't positions of need now or in the foreseeable future  - FalVine's penchant for top bats continues, with the theory that the defensive role will work itself out eventually.

SWR's seeming control yips don't bode well.

I hope our evaluation guys and our on-field guys are on the same page about these two jewels.

Call me greedy but I was hoping for a couple of low-minors guys in addition - moderate upside only, but genuine C+ prospects.

Good thing we've got the Aston Martin since our Rolls Royce is in the repair shop!

[Cap'n Piranha]

33 minutes ago, h2oface said:

92 mph 2 seam fastball, 94 mph 4 seam fastball. Currently getting lit up in AA. 

 

32 minutes ago, Dodecahedron said:

92 mph 2 seam fastball, 94 mph 4 seam fastball. Currently getting lit up in AA. 

Nice of you guys to coordinate your analysis for us!

[Cap'n Piranha]

26 minutes ago, MABB1959 said:

Why get a SS when we have Royce Lewis in the wings?  Or isn't he anymore.  Wasn't he first round, first pick WAY BACK IN 2017?  Most of the times none of this makes any sense.  So we got a pitching prospect and a SS prospect for one of the best pitchers we have had in the last 20 years?  

For the same reason you continue to acquire pitching prospects, even though you have Duran, Balazovic, Winder, Canterino, Ryan, and Strotman.

[jmlease1]

7 minutes ago, Otto von Ballpark said:

I don’t think there is any reason to suspect anything nefarious from Fangraphs. Prospect evaluators have been overwhelmed the past few weeks with the draft — I think BA hadn’t even published most of their midseason lists yet. Besides, preseason 40 (with zero pro experience) to midseason 59 is not a huge shift — basically just a value step down from 55 to 50 FV.

Fine, instead of nefarious I'll just call it stupid. What if Martin has a minor injury that he's playing through that they're not disclosing? The guy had plenty of power at Vanderbilt (against good competition); to suddenly drop him down now after half a season at AA (and going straight from college to AA ain't easy) based on second-hand reports is arrogant and dumb.

[bighat]

If this makes anyone feel any better, here's how a poll of over 700 Jays fans feel: