How Poor Is the Twins’ Core?

[mikelink45]

59 minutes ago, Twins GFP said:

Hard to put a lot of faith in a list that has the 69-82 Mets 10th...

Not sure about negativity and panic at this juncture. Everyone knew this was a reload season (not a complete rebuild). Injuries and poor bullpen building eroded this teams chances at the playoffs, not a lack of on-field talent.

A few of the prospects are showing positive signs. Getting MLB caliber players from the prospects is good, but what they really need is someone to explode: Jenkins becoming a MVP caliber player, Bradley becoming Cy Young caliber. Someone that can put the team on their back.

The Mets have Benge, McClean and Soto - that is enough to lift them without Lindor figuring into the discussion.  So they are above us - but 10 seems too high.  

[Coach]

50 minutes ago, LastOnePicked said:

If the Twins don't want these players, why would another team? There is no trade value in this group at this point whatsoever. That's the problem. That is why the roster could be so gummed up in 2027.

I agree, but I still have stock in Ryan if they can get his conditioning sorted out.  Especially if we're looking for a mid-season trade.  The caveat is, I'd like him to stay as a Twin, in top shape.

[Coach]

The most glaring part of McDaniel's assessment is what the Twins don't have. There isn't a single player in Minnesota's current core who qualifies as an elite player. Byron Buxton is the lone player in the Plus category. McDaniel views him as a player capable of providing roughly 3-5 WAR value, but the Twins don't have anyone in the elite tier.

The Solid category is much more crowded. That group includes Taj Bradley, Walker Jenkins, Vahn Lackey, Kaelen Culpepper, Luke Keaschall, Brooks Lee, Kody Clemens, Marek Houston, Connor Prielipp, Emmanuel Rodriguez, Royce Lewis, Riley Quick, Hendry Mendez, Khadim Diaw, Zebby Matthews, Andrew Morris, Mick Abel and Kendry Rojas. There's certainly talent there. 

Talk about a SSS!  Except for Lewis (I still have my fingers crossed), we have a lot to look forward to.  

[LastOnePicked]

11 minutes ago, Coach said:

The caveat is, I'd like him to stay as a Twin, in top shape.

My guess? If he's in top shape, he won't want to stay a Twin. If he's not, we shouldn't want him to stay a Twin.

[Coach]

6 minutes ago, LastOnePicked said:

My guess? If he's in top shape, he won't want to stay a Twin. If he's not, we shouldn't want him to stay a Twin.

Truth hurts.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

1 hour ago, HarmonK03 said:

If this was a reload season, you don't trot out Kreidler and Gray at SS, you don't hang onto a 3rd catcher for a month and not play him.  Clemens is not hitting in the middle of the order every day.

This team did the same thing they have been doing for the last six years, bring in a couple of league average free agents, sign some AAAA players and expect them to contribute.  And then hope everything comes together in a weak division.   And once again it didn't work out.

The only one hoping this was Tom.    

[Coach]

2 hours ago, PuckettPond said:

Ownership & fans must work together or this 2026 season will become the norm. Frustration, disappointment & anger is no way to watch baseball. If you are not part of the solution you are the problem. "Denial is not a river in Egypt." Oprah 

Profit sharing for fans?  I'm all in!

[Czelgert]

Buxton cannot be counted on to give any team more than 100 games next year.  That assumption is based on a HUGE sample size.  Buxton should be moved into a rotational outfield/DH role to eke out as many starts as possible.

The other issues in this piece are mostly drafting and development where I think the Twins need fresh blood at the top of the house making decisions.  How many real #1 or #2 starters have the Twins drafted and developed in the last two decades?  Certainly less than league average.  

[Road trip]

It's a harsh but fair assessment.

The Twins of 2026 are a lot like the Twins of the mid-late 1990s.  

Back then the youth movement of Cordova, Walker, Munoz, and McCarty was supposed to join Knoblauch as the next generation of core lineup players following the Puckett-Hrbek core.  It didn't work out, none of those guys had enduring success, and the Twins spent a half decade wandering in the desert until Hunter, Koskie, and Mientkiewicz et al arrived.

I think we can deem the rookie classes of the early 2020s a failure at this point, beyond Jeffers who will soon be gone.  Time to move on, get younger like the White Sox did, and hope that the Culpepper/Jenkins generation can provide a new solid core by 2028 or so.

[Twins GFP]

1 hour ago, HarmonK03 said:

If this was a reload season, you don't trot out Kreidler and Gray at SS, you don't hang onto a 3rd catcher for a month and not play him.  Clemens is not hitting in the middle of the order every day.

This team did the same thing they have been doing for the last six years, bring in a couple of league average free agents, sign some AAAA players and expect them to contribute.  And then hope everything comes together in a weak division.   And once again it didn't work out.

Actually that is kind of what a reload vs a rebuild looks like. Keeping guys Bell, Clemens, Ryan, Ober, Jeffers around while you are waiting for the younger guys to see what they can do. A complete rebuild moves all of those guys and more.

I am not defending ownership, but this year is/was different than previous years. Knowing the strike is coming, tough decisions about players had to be made. I can see the argument for moving that group, but the Twins felt they could compete with this year. They were correct. Without injuries, this team is in the playoff mix.

If the injuries weren't so devastating, the narrative around this season would be probably be different (except for those of you who have been screaming for a complete teardown/rebuild, nothing I say will appease you).

[Twins GFP]

1 hour ago, LastOnePicked said:

I don't think it works that way anymore. And maybe it never did.

Athleticism and intelligence improve your defense. Defense improves your pitching. Speed and intelligence improves your plate discipline and your baserunning. Baserunning manufactures runs and good at-bats wear down opponents. Weary opponents give up extra base hits.

The whole talent floor needs to be raised on this team. The Angels had Trout and Ohtani in their prime, and they still stunk. No one guy can carry a below-average roster.

I don't think the '26 Yankees are a great team, but it's like they're in an advanced league compared to these Twins.

The 26' Yankees have the best ERA in all of baseball by a wide margin and the eventual Cy Young winner. They have also scored the 9th most runs in MLB. If they aren't a great team this year, I have no clue what your expectations are.

A solid team with 1-2 elite players (especially pitchers) can carry you a long way. The Angels had Trout/Ohtani and AAA teams.

[bean5302]

1 hour ago, LastOnePicked said:

They shouldn't be building around anyone. They should be building an organizational plan for sustained winning and upgrading their scouting, training and minor league development programs.

 

Every successful "organizational plan" identifies existing assets and core resources. Are you suggesting releasing all 200 or so players in the entire organization?

Or are you just suggesting DFA/releasing all 40 man or 26 man roster guys?

The team has assets to build around. Identifying the assets they have directs the plan. You're doing things backwards.

[saviking]

2 hours ago, Whitey333 said:

If the team still considers Buxton the center of it's core, they are in deep trouble.  At age 33 and his long history of playing less than 100 games.

Maybe put a governor on Buxtons speed like U Haul does, keeping him out of the outfield at DH and maybe 1st base. 

Joking, but seriously, we need to keep Buck healthy 

[LastOnePicked]

13 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

Every successful "organizational plan" identifies existing assets and core resources. Are you suggesting releasing all 200 or so players in the entire organization?

Or are you just suggesting DFA/releasing all 40 man or 26 man roster guys?

The team has assets to build around. Identifying the assets they have directs the plan. You're doing things backwards.

That's a solid strawman, and you knocked it over perfectly. Well done. 

Nope. I'm simply suggesting that you can't make better decisions without first getting better decision-makers. Organizational infrastructure matters. Signing Jenkins or Culpepper or anyone else to a long-term contract isn't wise until you have people in your organization who can assess talent, injury risk and future value. 

But in Twinsworld, that does seem backwards, yes.

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, Patzky said:

Rocco was blamed.  The process was blamed. What if Julien and Wallner just weren't good enough? What if Culpepper and Lewis aren't? We like to believe. I like to believe. How long is the rope.

How long is the rope on Culpeper? Is that a real question? 

This team never ran by the plan that other successful teams use, and that's one reason they are where they are. 

[David Maro]

This team was bad coming out of ST when you have players like Gray and Outman on the roster. They also thought that Lee was the answer at SS. Then Keaschall at 2nd made up the middle very weak. You should have seen that Wallner was not looking ready to go and should have stayed behind. And having a patchwork BP put this team actually where it stands today 4th place and racing for 5th.

Sorry but if everyone wants to see Bell,Clemens and Larnach gone because they want the team going younger,why is it that Buxton isn't on the list. This team should have been blown up last off season after the big sell off after the trade deadline gutted the BP. All you have to do is look at the White Sox team and see what can happen in doing so.

If Tom P wants to make a statement to the team and the fans its this off season start over with a new roster,not just a spot or two.

[Patzky]

1 minute ago, David Maro said:

This team was bad coming out of ST when you have players like Gray and Outman on the roster. They also thought that Lee was the answer at SS. Then Keaschall at 2nd made up the middle very weak. You should have seen that Wallner was not looking ready to go and should have stayed behind. And having a patchwork BP put this team actually where it stands today 4th place and racing for 5th.

Sorry but if everyone wants to see Bell,Clemens and Larnach gone because they want the team going younger,why is it that Buxton isn't on the list. This team should have been blown up last off season after the big sell off after the trade deadline gutted the BP. All you have to do is look at the White Sox team and see what can happen in doing so.

If Tom P wants to make a statement to the team and the fans its this off season start over with a new roster,not just a spot or two.

I'm not sure any hitter similar to Bell that might be available would be any better this off-season. 

[ashbury]

34 minutes ago, saviking said:

Maybe put a governor on Buxtons speed like U Haul does, keeping him out of the outfield at DH and maybe 1st base. 

Joking, but seriously, we need to keep Buck healthy 

They tried that approach in 2023, DHing him the whole time, and he still went on the IL two separate times.

[Bodie]

3 hours ago, Whitey333 said:

If the team still considers Buxton the center of it's core, they are in deep trouble.  At age 33 and his long history of playing less than 100 games.

Unfortunately true. 

[The Great Hambino]

Congrats to the Rockies on their 5th consecutive year being ranked 30th on this list!

 

[Rosterman]

We all were waiting to see where current core was going to take them. Larnach, Jeffers, Ober, Wallner Ryan, Sands are the leftovers from that group. Lewis is a part of this group, too. No team pulled the plug on trading for Jeffers, and didn't see the interest that we all expected for Ryan. I was surprised the Twins didn't make Larnach to the Astros work by also dangling some minor league guy as an add on.

Buxton is the holdover from the group that once included Berrios.

The question you always ask is will the Twins extend the guys and for how much. They had a chance tyo extend Ryan or Jeffers in the last two seasons, but they didn't seem wporthy. I ask, would you sign Lewis right now for 3-4 years? You have to start tackling the signing issue sooner rather than later. Bradley needs to be discussed as a longterm Twins commitment or do they just let him play thru arbitration.

The next group of Twins is pretty slim. Lee, Martin, Bradley. You can write the aging Clemens iunto that mix. Three bench bats, but one still very young rotation arm who should just get better before he hits free agency the downside of 29.

The future is bright. Picture Lackey as the catcher. Tinny should be at first. Tait/Jimenez/Diaw would all be in mix. Picture Culpepper at second. Houston at short. Winkor at third. Outfield of Jenkins Rodriguez, Keaschall. You also have Mendez and Rosario or consideration plys any number of other under-the-radar prospects - Kendle, Thomson. Is Ross still in the bench mix. That's quite a core that hopefully will field better than anything the Twins put on the field this year.

Pitching is also strong considering Ober, Lopez, Kremer, Ryan can all walk.

 

[mikelink45]

3 hours ago, Czelgert said:

Buxton cannot be counted on to give any team more than 100 games next year.  That assumption is based on a HUGE sample size.  Buxton should be moved into a rotational outfield/DH role to eke out as many starts as possible.

The other issues in this piece are mostly drafting and development where I think the Twins need fresh blood at the top of the house making decisions.  How many real #1 or #2 starters have the Twins drafted and developed in the last two decades?  Certainly less than league average.  

He has averaged 82 games per year over 12 years.  No he can't be counted on.

[bean5302]

3 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

That's a solid strawman, and you knocked it over perfectly. Well done. 

Nope. I'm simply suggesting that you can't make better decisions without first getting better decision-makers. Organizational infrastructure matters. Signing Jenkins or Culpepper or anyone else to a long-term contract isn't wise until you have people in your organization who can assess talent, injury risk and future value. 

But in Twinsworld, that does seem backwards, yes.

So you respond to me, suggest I'm wrong by changing the context, but I'm the one who created the strawman? Thanks! I was confused about how that worked until now.