Ishbia Out: Justin Ishbia No Longer Candidate to Purchase Twins

[tony&rodney]

Odd that people would be surprised by this news. Yes, it is always a good idea to be hopeful but there are other teams with more potential to buy in MLB. The Twins have had it pretty sweet in the AL Central since the current front office came in 2017, spending more money than any team in the division. This will almost certainly soon end as it is reasonable to expect both Detroit and Chicago to bypass the Twins due to potentially higher revenue sources. Each year I have been hopeful of several moves that sometimes included one addition of a somewhat spendy free agent but attempted to keep a payroll within site of the other fellows in the region. There isn't any reason to believe the team won't sell this season and we all hope it occurs asap. However, in any event the Twins will soon find themselves needing to resort to a more efficient system of acquiring talent because their spending is not likely to continually eclipse that of their foes. Creativity will be the password. Don't lose faith, the team will sell. It might take a few months or a few years.

[arby58]

10 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

I guess we’re going to find out if there are “multiple bids” for the team. If it’s Glen Taylor then I’m taking a break being a fan of this organization. He’s going to drive the team into the ground. 

I don't know why Taylor would (a) be interested, given that he had the T'wolves on the market and is 83 years old, and (b) drive the team into the ground. The T'Wolves were in the Final Four of the NBA last year (long time since that has been the case for the Twins) and he has a strong team in place with Connelly and Finch running the basketball operation. Ant is a bigger star (with greater potential) than anybody currently on the Twins 26 man roster. They are a bit underwhelming so far this year, but the have the talent to go far if they jell over the last third of the season. 

[arby58]

9 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

Well, there went my last bit of interest in this year's club. Hard to imagine that a team can do much winning when your current owner wants out and a high-profile potential buyer makes it clear they don't want in.

I'm more interested in the on-field stuff. The Twins have plenty of talent, particularly in the young pitching category. Fans who think a new owner is going to change the team from being mid-market are, IMHO, gonna be disappointed.

[Jocko87]

18 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

The articles on The Athletic all seem to be dancing around some important truths about why this fell apart.  I hope the beat writers are digging furiously right now.

The most important nugget in the White Sox Athletic article is the nugget that Riensdorf isn't the majority owner, only the controlling owner. They are thinking he only owns something like 19% but he ain't telling.

That's make everything make sense. Not only does he already own a piece of the Sox, the price to be in charge is much, much lower.

He'd have to buy all of the Twins but only another 15-20% of the Sox.

If Riensdorf isn't on board, and they seem to be pushing back, hostile takeover coming soon. He's only got to buy out a few guys.

He was never serious about the Twins.

 

[Brandon27]

I knew it they weren't going to buy the twins but my money is still on A-rod marc lore and company 

[Squirrel]

2 hours ago, Original_JB said:

Told you so...

 

• Posted January 30

I'm starting to think that all this quietness is in part that the Ishbias are waiting to see if the financing for the new White Sox stadium at "The 78" will be hammered out. As "mid single digit %" owners of the Sox, they would need to sell that before being allowed to buy the Twins; That said, the opportunity to buy the White Sox while a whole new development project is being built around the new stadium site (hmm, sound familiar?) would have to be appealing. Now, Chicago is broke, and getting the public financing is causing problems (again, sound familiar?), but when has that ever stopped a project from being pushed through? Obviously, the Twins would be a fabulous back-up plan... 

the Sox will not get the funding from the state or the city for a new stadium at the 78. Period. There is no support for it, unless it is self-financed and Reinsdorf already said he wants some ridiculously high percentage from the city and state. Really not happening. He hasn’t even paid off his bonds yet from the build of their current stadium.

I wonder if the Ishbias decided to buy more shares in the White Sox because they were told another buyer will be getting the Twins. Or, more likely, the White Sox were their Target all along. Once it was revealed some time ago they had a stake in the ChiSox, it made me wonder. And I hope it will be a hostile take over. That will be fun to watch in this case

[Brandon27]

6 hours ago, cheeseheadgophfan said:

Just asking......but why would that be so bad?  He'll have money from the sale of the Wolves.....spending wasn't the problem for the Wolves, bad management was.  He signed KG and let him bring in his boys (a big mistake).  He signed Joe Smith to a big deal (another mistake)....but spending money was not the problem.

Do you want 80+ year old team owner 

[gman]

3 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

Just when ST was going to start giving us something positive we get the Twins downer!  Oh well, we have France, Coloume and Bader to keep us excited.  

But that only lasted 2 seconds

[gman]

This may make it likelier that trades of Paddock, Vazquez and Castro will be made to keep the payroll down.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

23 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

The most important nugget in the White Sox Athletic article is the nugget that Riensdorf isn't the majority owner, only the controlling owner. They are thinking he only owns something like 19% but he ain't telling.

That's make everything make sense. Not only does he already own a piece of the Sox, the price to be in charge is much, much lower.

He'd have to buy all of the Twins but only another 15-20% of the Sox.

If Riensdorf isn't on board, and they seem to be pushing back, hostile takeover coming soon. He's only got to buy out a few guys.

He was never serious about the Twins.

 

It could be that Mat backed out, and Justin can’t pony up the full 1.5 to 2 bil alone, so pivoted to incremental hostile takeover.

[jorgenswest]

50 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

The articles on The Athletic all seem to be dancing around some important truths about why this fell apart.  I hope the beat writers are digging furiously right now.

How would that be helpful to the future of the Twins? Why do we need to know? Seems like the best route to a new owner is a private process.

[Nashvilletwin]

42 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

However, in any event the Twins will soon find themselves needing to resort to a more efficient system of acquiring talent because their spending is not likely to continually eclipse that of their foes. Creativity will be the password

Agree.  I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.  The only way for a small/mid market team like the Twins to create any sort of competitive advantage is through the ability to draft, develop, and transition prospects into controllable, superior major league ballplayers.  Wishing for a super rich sugar daddy owner willing to annually lose tens, if not hundreds, of millions to try to compete with teams with more lucrative markets is farcical.

It just astounds me how most TDers hold out hope for an egotistical owner willing to burn cash year in and year out.  And, yes, the Pohlads did that. Maybe one will show up, and if so, will be politically acceptable to our rabble as well.  But don’t count on it; that’s a pipe dream. There are way fewer irrational billionaires around than people think.

[Squirrel]

8 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

How would that be helpful to the future of the Twins? Why do we need to know? Seems like the best route to a new owner is a private process.

With that kind of money it always makes me a bit skeptical when someone goes so public about it

[Vanimal46]

6 hours ago, cheeseheadgophfan said:

Just asking......but why would that be so bad?  He'll have money from the sale of the Wolves.....spending wasn't the problem for the Wolves, bad management was.  He signed KG and let him bring in his boys (a big mistake).  He signed Joe Smith to a big deal (another mistake)....but spending money was not the problem.

He hired all of that bad management. The Timberwolves were a laughing stock organization 15 years in a row until Lore and A-Rod came in. 

[JD-TWINS]

2 hours ago, old nurse said:

When the Ishibas took over the Suns they were on the cusp of being a championship team. Now they are struggling to make the playoffs with a team of accumulating broken down players with bad contracts. I is not necessarily a bad thing they are looking to increase their stake in he White Sox 

They spent money on Durant - Beal - etc. and paid Devin Booker ………FO builds the Team, owners approve spending/budget. I would have liked the possibilities!

[Vanimal46]

49 minutes ago, arby58 said:

I don't know why Taylor would (a) be interested, given that he had the T'wolves on the market and is 83 years old, and (b) drive the team into the ground. The T'Wolves were in the Final Four of the NBA last year (long time since that has been the case for the Twins) and he has a strong team in place with Connelly and Finch running the basketball operation. Ant is a bigger star (with greater potential) than anybody currently on the Twins 26 man roster. They are a bit underwhelming so far this year, but the have the talent to go far if they jell over the last third of the season. 

Glen Taylor didn’t hire the current GM or coach of the T Wolves. That was all Lore and A-Rod. When Glen was the sole decision maker for the Timberwolves they were irrelevant for 15 years. I hope he is not interested in buying the Twins because that will end up being a disaster. 

[JD-TWINS]

13 minutes ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Agree.  I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.  The only way for a small/mid market team like the Twins to create any sort of competitive advantage is through the ability to draft, develop, and transition prospects into controllable, superior major league ballplayers.  Wishing for a super rich sugar daddy owner willing to annually lose tens, if not hundreds, of millions to try to compete with teams with more lucrative markets is farcical.

It just astounds me how most TDers hold out hope for an egotistical owner willing to burn cash year in and year out.  And, yes, the Pohlads did that. Maybe one will show up, and if so, will be politically acceptable to our rabble as well.  But don’t count on it; that’s a pipe dream. There are way fewer irrational billionaires around than people think.

Not many Billionaires have a such a farcical view of value of money to be willing to lose, potentially, hundreds of millions on any investment. Extremely doubtful more than a couple tens of millions in losses once in a great while….not sure what (how many) people at TD think either of these is realistic or worth dreaming about,

The Pohlad’s burned cash year in & year out? I think that’s a point you are making but not totally sure?

I agree, one doesn’t become a billionaire spending on things that don’t ultimately generate profits…….no matter how big of fans they might be.

[TheLeviathan]

24 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

How would that be helpful to the future of the Twins? Why do we need to know? Seems like the best route to a new owner is a private process.

Because depending upon what that is....it could be the Pohlads to blame.  And if that's the case, public pressure for them not to change their minds is imperative.

This is the sort of clown show outcome that was feared.  It doesn't mean we can't expect some good things to still come out of this, but it should cause your skepticism to flare.

[TheLeviathan]

47 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

The most important nugget in the White Sox Athletic article is the nugget that Riensdorf isn't the majority owner, only the controlling owner. They are thinking he only owns something like 19% but he ain't telling.

That's make everything make sense. Not only does he already own a piece of the Sox, the price to be in charge is much, much lower.

He'd have to buy all of the Twins but only another 15-20% of the Sox.

If Riensdorf isn't on board, and they seem to be pushing back, hostile takeover coming soon. He's only got to buy out a few guys.

He was never serious about the Twins.

 

If that's the case, then a lot of people in this market (including the Twins by many reports) got duped at a seriously high level.

What you say may absolutely be true, but if it is then I have even more skepticism on how this sale works out.

[CharlieDee]

These guys used the Twins to get what they wanted from Chicago, and it seems to have worked....I thought it was most likely too good to be true.

[LA Vikes Fan]

10 hours ago, Jocko87 said:

Why? Really, why?

The most obvious answer is right in front of your face. The guy with the current stake in the White Sox used another team for sale to get what he wanted all along. But but but pohlads.

He's never been the only guy, just the only public guy. Why? See above.

This is an interesting development but ultimately means nothing. Any rumors you got a month late about an opening day announcement probably had this in mind anyway.

Reports of "scrambling" in Twins land are highly suspect to me. Who is scrambled? Hayes says Ft Myers but guess what? I'll bet nobody that matters is in Ft Myers right now.

"Team officials" are not involved in this question. They might very well be surprised. 

This is news of one possible buyer not actually being a buyer. Don't read anything more into it.

Agreed. Classic negotiating move of playing one against the other. Ishbia used the Twins opportunity to cut a better deal on taking over the White Sox. He wasn’t the only potential buyer, he’s the only publicly identified potential buyer. I think we all got a little head of ourselves because we’re hoping for improvement with Pohlad gone. We went through this drama in LA before the current group bought the Dodgers. My guess is that this isn’t the last twist and turn in the saga.

Well, I guess we’ll find out how robust that market really is.

[Nashvilletwin]

14 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

Not many Billionaires have a such a farcical view of value of money to be willing to lose, potentially, hundreds of millions on any investment. Extremely doubtful more than a couple tens of millions in losses once in a great while….not sure what (how many) people at TD think either of these is realistic or worth dreaming about,

The Pohlad’s burned cash year in & year out? I think that’s a point you are making but not totally sure?

I agree, one doesn’t become a billionaire spending on things that don’t ultimately generate profits…….no matter how big of fans they might be.

I’ve been castigated so many times on this site for my claim that the Twins organization in its entirety lose money - tens of millions annually - on a CASH basis. I’m not crying for the Pohlads - the equity value of their initial investment has grown substantially.  I’m also not here to debate whether that has proved to be a better investment than other alternatives available at the time of purchase or over the years.

However, I would argue at this point in time it’s very possible the Pohlads see the unrealised equity growth in small/mid market baseball franchises waning while the annual cash requirements (and cash losses) continue to grow.  That dynamic decreases IRRs and it’s quite possible that they see better uses or have other needs for their capital.

We will see how this all shakes out. But my real point is that we shouldn’t hold out hope for somebody to come in here to blow money so they can satisfy their egos.  With what’s going on in LA and NY (one reason why equity values for small market teams are slowing or falling), the amount of that type of egotistical wager just keeps going up.  We are better off developing controllable (i.e. cheap) superior major leaguers.  So my ultimate point is that Falvey and Rocco stink at that.

[Jocko87]

20 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

If that's the case, then a lot of people in this market (including the Twins by many reports) got duped at a seriously high level.

What you say may absolutely be true, but if it is then I have even more skepticism on how this sale works out.

No chance this wasn’t covered as an option by the Twins.  Those surprised aren’t people that would be in the know,  Even Falvey is on a need to know basis. 

Things like this are why they hired that fancy pants New York firm to handle things. 

Until they got word that Ishbia sold his Sox shares, he was just another guy.  He can’t present a serious offer without accounting for that factor. 

It sounds surprising to outsiders but perfectly obvious if you are in the room.

[Squirrel]

2 minutes ago, Nashvilletwin said:

So my ultimate point is that Falvey and Rocco stink at that.

Rocco isn’t in charge of development. But yes, Falvey does oversee that and getting the right people in place throughout the minors to develop players is imperative.

[saviking]

Usually, someone cheap with his money expects others to be frivolous with theirs. Polads probably tried to drive too hard of a bargain. 

[chpettit19]

1 hour ago, arby58 said:

I don't know why Taylor would (a) be interested, given that he had the T'wolves on the market and is 83 years old, and (b) drive the team into the ground. The T'Wolves were in the Final Four of the NBA last year (long time since that has been the case for the Twins) and he has a strong team in place with Connelly and Finch running the basketball operation. Ant is a bigger star (with greater potential) than anybody currently on the Twins 26 man roster. They are a bit underwhelming so far this year, but the have the talent to go far if they jell over the last third of the season. 

This is actually the exact proof of why we shouldn't want him to buy the Twins. He didn't do that stuff. ARod and Lore did. It's the proof that ownership matters. He continually hired completely inept front office personnel (outside of Saunders) and destroyed that team for over a decade. They had the worst winning percentage in North American sports history just a few years ago before new owners started making decisions and they were immediately successful. The Twolves situation is why we should want Taylor nowhere near the Twins.

[bean5302]

3 hours ago, Russ said:

Not a surprise, despite the current White Sox situation, it is a bigger market to buy into.

The White Sox situation is far superior to the Twins' situation from a prospective owner's perspective. The market size is #2 on their interest list.

The biggest item is going to be a new stadium. New stadiums increase property value in the new location by many times over. Prospective owners know where the new stadium is going first, don't they? They buy up the land around the new site, hold until the values skyrocket, then sell the properties for literally billions in fast profit. 

The White Sox ARE getting a new stadium. It remains to be seen if that stadium is going to be the 78 or Nashville, etc.

[bean5302]

1 hour ago, arby58 said:

I don't know why Taylor would (a) be interested, given that he had the T'wolves on the market and is 83 years old...

Why did Peter Siedler go nuts with payroll for the Padres?
Why did Mike Illitch go nuts with the payroll for the Tigers?

When billionaires / team owners are facing the end of their days, that crowning achievement and pursuit of happiness often shifts to winning a major sports championship. I have no doubt Taylor would be willing to spend big if he buys the Twins. I also have no doubt that Taylor's ownership would look a lot like the Angels' Arte Moreno. An overly involved owner who makes emotional, aggressive, and poor decisions when it comes to the roster, hamstringing the front office and creating a dysfunctional atmosphere.

[bean5302]

For people thinking the Ishbia's always wanted the Chicago White Sox and there was no interest in the Twins... yeah, I don't buy it. There is more growth potential in the White Sox; however, the Ishbia's are not setup to be controlling owners of that franchise as a result of them increasing their share at the moment. The status of "the 78" definitely played a role.

The Pohlads drove too hard of a bargain to start or weren't willing to negotiate off their position when it became clear the Ishbia's were potentially going to pivot to the White Sox. Guaranteed scenarios are worth a lot more than non-guaranteed scenarios ($1 vs. $1), but apparently, the purchase price of the Twins was too hard to justify over the potential increased gains from the White Sox.

[Guest]

The Ishbias read TD for a month and decided they didn't want to be the next billionaires to get kicked around in the Twin Cities....

sat·ire | (/ˈsaˌtī(ə)r/) | noun
the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues.