Ishbia Out: Justin Ishbia No Longer Candidate to Purchase Twins

[TheLeviathan]

23 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

So no one thinks it’s possible that perhaps another owner has been chosen? Do y’all think the Ishbia brothers were the only ones interested? The more I think about it the more I think the Ishbia brothers ‘interest’ in the Twins was a ruse. Their interest was made public so quickly … no one thinks there is suspect in that?

Whatever happens with the Twins, and I still think a deal will go through with a new owner, I will enjoy the hostile takeover of the White Sox. And the only way they are getting a new stadium is if it is privately financed. And the Chicago Fire owner is interested in building a soccer pitch on the 78 … and will finance it himself, The state has already said no to the White Sox and the city doesn’t have the money.

Why on earth would we be happy the Reinsdorf era is ending?

[chpettit19]

7 minutes ago, arby58 said:

You want to look at what is mostly ancient history, and I want to look at the past few years. It's sort of the HOF peak period versus career Yin and Yang. In the last three years, the T-wolves have been much better than the Twins in terms of results - and they may well be this year as well. Picking Edwards was an important decision, and there were plenty suggesting they take Ball or Wiseman, neither of which has had the career (or the upside potential of Ant. Connelly also made some trades that many fans disliked (a lot), and you know that Taylor had to sign off on those as well. As somebody recently said, 'flags fly forever' and I'd give the T'wolves at the moment a better chance to fly a flag in the near future than the Twins. If they do, the 'horrible owner' thing starts to sound off-key.

The last 3 years have been driven by new owners. That's the point. He wasn't making the key decisions he was just signing off. We've come full circle so I'm going to bow out now. You asked why we should think he'd drive the Twins into the ground and a couple of us have given you very good reasons why. He's been an awful owner who's overseen one of the worst franchises in the 4 major sports. Feel free to ignore that because they drafted Ant and he's allowed ARod and Lore to make the decisions lately while just signing off. He's been a significantly worse owner than the Pohlads. And that's saying something. His smartest move was to get out of the way and sell the team. The exact same thing we're asking of the Pohlads. We can only hope the results of the Pohlads selling will be as good as the results of Taylor selling.

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Mike, did you read the post?  Two things can be true: the Twins can lose money annually on a cash basis AND they can sell their ownership position for a huge, billion $ plus gain.  Right?

And they certainly are not selling out of charity.  As my posts make clear, they probably think they have more productive uses (and who knows what those are: property, pay down debt, family dividend, etc.) of their capital going forward than trying to compete as a small/mid market team in this environment.  They can see the trends.

 

 

Why would someone buy it if it loses money? I see people at saying someone will but it for fun. I guess that's possible. In any event, it happens eventually and then we'll see if things are better or not. 

[Jocko87]

8 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

Why on earth would we be happy the Reinsdorf era is ending?

This is a very fair point. If the obvious next step is for Justin to become control owner they will likely attempt the major overhaul needed and suddenly we have a big market powerhouse in division.

It'll take a few years at least.

[ashbury]

8 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Why would someone buy it if it loses money? 

I dunno.  Jay Leno probably "loses money" each year on the collector cars he owns.  America's Cup competitors lose money when they race.  There's a fun factor of owning certain things, particularly when enough other people share in that fun and will bail you out when it is time to sell.

[Mike Sixel]

12 minutes ago, ashbury said:

I dunno.  Jay Leno probably "loses money" each year on the collector cars he owns.  America's Cup competitors lose money when they race.  There's a fun factor of owning certain things, particularly when enough other people share in that fun and will bail you out when it is time to sell.

Sure, but over one billion dollars for fun? Maybe..... Is very different than a car.

[TheLeviathan]

16 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

This is a very fair point. If the obvious next step is for Justin to become control owner they will likely attempt the major overhaul needed and suddenly we have a big market powerhouse in division.

It'll take a few years at least.

I know I have a lot of people disagreeing with me in this thread, but I'm not sure why.  This is objectively terrible news for the Twins.  The White Sox end the Reinsdorf era and a billionaire with flair takes over in Chicago with a division rival.

On top of that, the ownership group many in the media thought were the lead buyers bow out at the last minute.  It's possible this won't be anything more than the Pohalds chose another buyer. It's also possible we look back at this as the start of an ugly process we aren't happy with at the end.

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Why would someone buy it if it loses money? 

Asked and answered....

[Vanimal46]

54 minutes ago, arby58 said:

So what? They were minority owners, and Taylor had to approve it - and he did.

So he didn’t hire him. That’s the point you were pushing back on. Glen Taylor didn’t hire the executive team that finally turned around the organization. When he was solely making decisions, the team was one of the worst run franchises in all of sports for 14 years. 

[bean5302]

1 hour ago, Parfigliano said:

Got any thoughts on tonight's Powerball numbers?

According to their website, there will be 5 non-repetitive white ball numbers between 1-69, and a red powerball between 1-26 drawn. The odds are about 292 million to 1 a ticket will be a grand prize winner.

[Nashvilletwin]

36 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Why would someone buy it if it loses money? 

I can think of four reasons - all of which happen in the real world.  And the eventual buyer of the Twins might be looking at a combination of all four as reasons for their purchase.

1. The buyer thinks he can effect operational changes that can improve financial performance.  This is most common.

2. The buyer thinks the capital return on the investment will increase even if cash flow is negative annually.  This is common for tech companies and professional sports teams. Private equity buyers often combine #1 and #2 plus leverage (debt) in the hopes of seeing their exit multiple expand and turbocharge their equity returns.

3. The buyer sees the business as a loss leader that will enable him to achieve greater returns in related businesses.  This can be tenuous, but, re the Twins, the stadium and tv rights might be useful in this regard.

4. The buyer gets his “return” from non-financial sources.  Could be ego, civic pride, goodwill, or just plain fun running/owning it.

There may be others, but in my experience, these have been the four most common I’ve seen.

[bean5302]

1 hour ago, Squirrel said:

So no one thinks it’s possible that perhaps another owner has been chosen? Do y’all think the Ishbia brothers were the only ones interested? The more I think about it the more I think the Ishbia brothers ‘interest’ in the Twins was a ruse. Their interest was made public so quickly … no one thinks there is suspect in that?

Whatever happens with the Twins, and I still think a deal will go through with a new owner, I will enjoy the hostile takeover of the White Sox. And the only way they are getting a new stadium is if it is privately financed. And the Chicago Fire owner is interested in building a soccer pitch on the 78 … and will finance it himself, The state has already said no to the White Sox and the city doesn’t have the money.

I do think it's possible the Pohlads have a different front runner (now) to buy the Twins. I also don't think it's a coincidence that an aging billionaire who will be flush with cash from a team sale like Glen Taylor lost the Timberwolves less than 2 weeks ago and the Ishbia's just now backed out.

What I expect happened (pure speculation) is the Ishbia's were on the fast track to close the Twins deal until Taylor put in an aggressive bid well over the value of other offers out of desperation to maintain his ownership over a major sports franchise, and the Pohlads backtracked on the Ishbia plan. The Ishbia's then pivoted to increasing their ownership stake in the White Sox.

[ashbury]

15 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Sure, but over one billion dollars for fun? Maybe..... Is very different than a car.

Maybe ask Ted Turner.  He's still alive.

[arby58]

40 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

So he didn’t hire him. That’s the point you were pushing back on. Glen Taylor didn’t hire the executive team that finally turned around the organization. When he was solely making decisions, the team was one of the worst run franchises in all of sports for 14 years. 

I'm also tired of going around in circles on this. OF COURSE he hired him - that's the 'get his approval' part. Taylor still owned the team.

Fine, L&AR were involved, even brought it to him, but he still had to make the decision, and it could have been no. Meanwhile, he had been in charge in 2019 when they drafted Edwards number one and drafted other key pieces. That said, I'm no longer responding - my first post was I didn't believe Taylor would be interested in the buying the team, so why don't we get back to the issue of who might.

[Squirrel]

1 hour ago, TheLeviathan said:

Why on earth would we be happy the Reinsdorf era is ending?

Well, I wouldn’t mind seeing the demise even if it will likely make the ChiSox better. Reinsdorf is a far worse owner than the Pohlads, imo

[Squirrel]

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

I do think it's possible the Pohlads have a different front runner (now) to buy the Twins. I also don't think it's a coincidence that an aging billionaire who will be flush with cash from a team sale like Glen Taylor lost the Timberwolves less than 2 weeks ago and the Ishbia's just now backed out.

What I expect happened (pure speculation) is the Ishbia's were on the fast track to close the Twins deal until Taylor put in an aggressive bid well over the value of other offers out of desperation to maintain his ownership over a major sports franchise, and the Pohlads backtracked on the Ishbia plan. The Ishbia's then pivoted to increasing their ownership stake in the White Sox.

I just don’t know. If they were on such a fast track, I think we’d be waiting for MLB/ownership approval. I just find it suspicious that the Ishbias were so public and so fast, then we find out they have an ownership stake with the White Sox. I don’t think this is about Glen Taylor. But hey, you are suspicious of that, I’m suspicious of the other. I guess we will see. I really hope you are wrong, though, otherwise we will be jumping from the frying pan to the fire and that would be bad for all of us. One thing for certain, few owners really care what we think. They’re gonna do what they want for themselves.

[cheeseheadgophfan]

3 hours ago, KnoblauchWasFramed said:

Bro... seriously?  Taylor has owned the team for 30 years.... they have made it out of the first round of the playoffs twice.  One point of that run they didn't make a playoff appearance for 14 straight seasons.  They lost more than 50 games 11 times while winning more than 50 games 5 times.  

Correct, spending money hasn't always been an issue, but the same can be said about the Twins in several of the last Target Field seasons for the Twins.  The problem is the incompetence shown when spending that money.  The Twins have exceeded expectations and surprised us several times by spending money on free agents... the problem however... is the money was almost always spent poorly.  It was like the Twins spent the extra money just for the sake of saying that they did it and then took no real regard for who they spent in on.

Their obvious philosophy was "why spend $30M on one top flight player when we can spend $30M on 4-5 trash players" - this was almost always exclusively done with pitching.  

Glen Taylor, just like the Pohlads, was a billionaire who bought an asset and then refused to have fun with it and required that it must always turn a massive profit above all else.  And when they had to spend money they showed how inept and incompetent they were.

That's why it is a HARD PASS on anyone like Glen Taylor.

I understand all of this and i also understand the concern with his age.....but don't even try to compare the Twins and Wolve's ownership in terms of willingness to spend money.  Money and spending has never been an issue for Taylor....it has ALWAYS been an issue for the Pohlads.  Your history of the Wolves is accurate but I don't blame that entirely on ownership.  Granted he hired incompetent management (David Kahn, anyone?)....but he was willing to spend on players and coaches.  They were also incredibly unlucky with the lottery early on and had a generational duo who couldn't play together because Marbury was jealous of KG.

As to Taylor's age?  I can see a scenario where he wants to go out on a high and try to out-do AROD etc....and the biggest thing???   ANYTHING WOULD BE BETTER THAN THE POHLADS!!!!

[Fire Dan Gladden]

I am rooting for a team sale as much as anyone here, but I am taking this news with a grain of salt.  All public information on this sale is released for a reason (posturing, pressure, etc.).

The only news headline that I am dreading to see is "Pohlad's pull Twins off market, decide to keep team".

[Fred]

I wonder if the Pohlads are thinking that they don't want to sell to someone that will make the "Cheap Pohlads" thing ring true?

[jkcarew]

..."and the Polads may take the club off the market..."

You mean everyone in the media (well, maybe 'only' 90%) that reported this winter that a sale by opening day was possible, even likely...were wrong??? Why am I not surprised?

The market and the club are not as attractive as the hometown media would have you believe.

[Fred]

6 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Agree.  I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.  The only way for a small/mid market team like the Twins to create any sort of competitive advantage is through the ability to draft, develop, and transition prospects into controllable, superior major league ballplayers.  Wishing for a super rich sugar daddy owner willing to annually lose tens, if not hundreds, of millions to try to compete with teams with more lucrative markets is farcical.

It just astounds me how most TDers hold out hope for an egotistical owner willing to burn cash year in and year out.  And, yes, the Pohlads did that. Maybe one will show up, and if so, will be politically acceptable to our rabble as well.  But don’t count on it; that’s a pipe dream. There are way fewer irrational billionaires around than people think.

I dream of somebody who has multiple irons-in-the-fire making millions, so they are not so concerned with ROI from their sports team. A hobby that makes a little money, but is a hell of a lot of fun. I was thinking that was the Ishbias, sigh!

[bean5302]

3 hours ago, Squirrel said:

I just don’t know. If they were on such a fast track, I think we’d be waiting for MLB/ownership approval. I just find it suspicious that the Ishbias were so public and so fast, then we find out they have an ownership stake with the White Sox. I don’t think this is about Glen Taylor. But hey, you are suspicious of that, I’m suspicious of the other. I guess we will see. I really hope you are wrong, though, otherwise we will be jumping from the frying pan to the fire and that would be bad for all of us. One thing for certain, few owners really care what we think. They’re gonna do what they want for themselves.

The Ishbia's stake in the White Sox has been known about since mid January at least, and obviously by MLB since 2021 as people buying into ownership in MLB franchises requires vetting. I'm sure the Ishbia's position was revealed to Twins ownership (if they didn't know about it prior) back in December. I'm sure there was plenty of hassle involved in the bidding process. Justin Ishbia apparently even approached former Twins players about being minority owners. It's a lot of effort and a lot of risk to their reputations to bail out and swap dance partners.

I mean, I suppose the Ishbia's could have been playing the White Sox to get a better deal, but why not just pivot to buy the White Sox outright, then? Reinsdorf announced the team was for sale back in October of last year, and the Ishbia's purchase would still keep them as minority owners without control. It doesn't seem that productive to go through a full purchase and bidding process, put your name out there and then have to settle for part owner in a badly run franchise you're not controlling. It's also reported Reinsdorf approached the Ishbia's about increasing their stake through purchasing minority owner stakes (potentially investors who wanted out of the mess of a team), not the other way around.

Though as I think you're eluding to, whatever is going to happen isn't going to be influenced by fans.

[USAFChief]

5 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

I can think of four reasons - all of which happen in the real world.  And the eventual buyer of the Twins might be looking at a combination of all four as reasons for their purchase.

1. The buyer thinks he can effect operational changes that can improve financial performance.  This is most common.

2. The buyer thinks the capital return on the investment will increase even if cash flow is negative annually.  This is common for tech companies and professional sports teams. Private equity buyers often combine #1 and #2 plus leverage (debt) in the hopes of seeing their exit multiple expand and turbocharge their equity returns.

3. The buyer sees the business as a loss leader that will enable him to achieve greater returns in related businesses.  This can be tenuous, but, re the Twins, the stadium and tv rights might be useful in this regard.

4. The buyer gets his “return” from non-financial sources.  Could be ego, civic pride, goodwill, or just plain fun running/owning it.

There may be others, but in my experience, these have been the four most common I’ve seen.

This is ridiculous.  There is zero chance  baseball teams are losing money continually while also seeing the value of the franchises rise year after year. 

Zero. Chance.

None. Zip. Zilch. 

[Jocko87]

3 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

I am rooting for a team sale as much as anyone here, but I am taking this news with a grain of salt.  All public information on this sale is released for a reason (posturing, pressure, etc.).

The only news headline that I am dreading to see is "Pohlad's pull Twins off market, decide to keep team".

This 100%.

All "sources" in this matter should be treated as highly dubious. It is a very small group of people who actually knows what is going on and they ain't talking. Except for public effects.

Unless your source is named Pohlad or the New York broker, you have nothing.  And the New York broker ain't talking under strict fiduciary NDA.

[Schmoeman5]

22 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

This is ridiculous.  There is zero chance  baseball teams are losing money continually while also seeing the value of the franchises rise year after year. 

Zero. Chance.

None. Zip. Zilch. 

🙂 Yes. But the same cast of characters have been beating and will continue beating that same drum. And when asked for proof, they can't. That why owners dont/won't open the books. p.s. you forgot nada

[tarheeltwinsfan]

I just don't care. Too much speculation here. no way to know what really went on here. Spring Training games have started. I just don't care who owns the Twins. Play Ball !

[old nurse]

12 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

They spent money on Durant - Beal - etc. and paid Devin Booker ………FO builds the Team, owners approve spending/budget. I would have liked the possibilities!

They spend the money they make off the Suns and still have a profit at the end of the year. They make more money off the Suns than Pohlads make off the Twins. 

[Blyleven2011]

Another disappointment from the pohlads  , a announcement  deflating  the fans interest in the team once again,  can't blame the buyer backing out for there reasons ...

It's just another disappointment  , one after another  , the payroll being reduced 30 million for the 2024 season with the window open  for being a contender only to fall back to being a pretender ....

Should anyone be held accountable  , sounds familiar  , don't it ???

[ashbury]

7 minutes ago, Blyleven2011 said:

Should anyone be held accountable

Don't know what this means.  Joe Pohlad isn't running the sale, to be taken off this duty and let someone else run it now.  It's not being delegated in any meaningful sense. No, it's surely being handled from the top, Jim and/or Bill or whoever.  You can't fire them, and bring in new owners - that's what this exercise is all about anyway.

[bean5302]

16 hours ago, USAFChief said:

This is ridiculous.  There is zero chance  baseball teams are losing money continually while also seeing the value of the franchises rise year after year. 

Zero. Chance.

None. Zip. Zilch. 

Tesla lost money for years and years while the valuations of the company continued to soar. Profits are not necessarily related to company valuations.