Twins Land Former Top Prospect Diego Cartaya in Trade With Dodgers

[chpettit19]

8 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Ouch that hurt. My brain is feeling that. Kinda like eating ice cream too fast. 

OK... but... since I've imagined that .375 OPS. I was reading the wrapper on the ice cream packaging.  

It says that .375 won't solve our problems but it also won't cost 10 million that we don't have. 

Having an option remaining means he can be sent down if he .375's it. And if he uses up that option and he is still .375 OPS'ing it next year. You don't care if he passes through waivers in 2026.  

It's a dice roll... I'd start him in the minors and let him compete with Camargo for next man up. But... I would have my finger on the eject button ready on Vazquez in June if he's going to keep the under .600 crap. 

Vazquez for the past two years has been bypassing the taste buds to drop the entire tub of Bridgeman's directly onto my brain. 

 

 

I'm generally with you. Vazquez isn't an MLB catcher. Our pitchers have better numbers with Jeffers behind the plate. Vazquez is one of the worst hitters in baseball. He costs 10 mil. He's a net massive negative on the field. Although, it does sound like he's probably a general positive in the club house, but he can be that as a coach for far less than 10 mil and not hurt the team on the field.

I don't know how you get that 10 mil off the payroll, though. Without paying in prospect costs that I don't want to pay. The Pohlads aren't eating it, as much as I'd wish they would. Carrying 3 catchers to cover up Vazquez seems like making the situation worse. I don't know what Gasper's defense behind the plate looks like but it sure feels like that's a complete no go, so it's probably Camargo and Cartaya. I'd prefer giving them a go (I'd prefer Elias Diaz, actually). But I don't know how they dump Vazquez. I wish they would. But I don't see it happening.

I'm glad to have an option for 2026, but I don't feel confident that this solves much of anything for 2025. At least not yet.

[Taildragger8791]

I had a hard time reading past the part where we got a catcher with a "persistent back injury". Do those get better with age and reps, like all the elbow issues on the pitchers we've traded for?

[Doctor Gast]

I like the move in that it gives us some future depth. Cartaya has had at least a couple of poor seasons & they lost patience with him like they did with Camargo but much sooner with Camargo. I'd prefer Feduccia because he's MLB-ready but IMO Cartaya is worth the extra patience. Cartaya was way down on my catchers' trade list.

[Trov]

This is a lottery ticket trade.  He gets back to where he was a couple years ago it is great deal.  If he does not, most likely it only gets mentioned when someone does a deep dive of trades made over the years. 

[Doctor Gast]

7 minutes ago, Taildragger8791 said:

I had a hard time reading past the part where we got a catcher with a "persistent back injury". Do those get better with age and reps, like all the elbow issues on the pitchers we've traded for?

WOW, good catch I missed that. That's concerning. To put everything into perspective, Cartaya is now our # 23rd top prospect, he beat out Camargo by a long shot. 

[High heat]

10 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

I don't care how long they have been at AAA. Gasper has been in AAA for how long? As of yet we still haven't got our 3rd catcher. Cartaya has a lot more upside than what we got but he's still not MLB-ready. We'll see how he responds to AAA here. Maybe later on this season, we sure can't count on him to take over for Vazquez or Jeffers.  

Jair Camargo caught 400 innings at AAA last seasons in a season where he missed time and another 700 innings in 23.  If you have watched him play he has a cannon from behind the plate and moves well for being like 250lbs. 
He also has some good power in his bat.

Gasper hasn’t caught 400 inning in the past 3 seasons combined.  He isn’t more than a guy who could pinch hit for a catcher late in a game and let him finish an inning or 2.  
 

Im not going to calm to be a Cartaya expert but indications are he is pretty solid as well behind the plate.

 

I not saying they are as good as Vasquez or a 1 to 1 replacement, but Camargo can absolutely hold his own as a back up catcher in the big leagues defensively.

[ashbury]

Fantastic lottery ticket!  I'm always leery of going against LA's player evaluation machine (did we just trade them the next Luis Gil?), but even if Cartaya's chances of becoming a star are lower than before, he's still a guy who kind of held his own in AAA at age 22.  Assuming the glove is OK behind the plate, he'll be a useful major league catcher in a year or two.  It costs a 40-man spot, but other than that, the price seems right.

[NYCTK]

15 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Vazquez isn't an MLB catcher.

This comes as a huge shock to Vazquez who has caught nearly 7000 innings in MLB. 

[twinstalker]

Quote

If you want to understand why the Dodgers unceremoniously dumped Cartaya, it's not due to a waning belief in his talents

That is one of the most (we'll say incredible) statements I've ever read.  I don't think teams are all that anxious to dump cheap, talented assets.  And given that we know he's cheap...

[Craig Arko]

I suspect he will be an important piece in 2026.

[Doctor Gast]

2 minutes ago, High heat said:

Jair Camargo caught 400 innings at AAA last seasons in a season where he missed time and another 700 innings in 23.  If you have watched him play he has a cannon from behind the plate and moves well for being like 250lbs. 
He also has some good power in his bat.

Gasper hasn’t caught 400 inning in the past 3 seasons combined.  He isn’t more than a guy who could pinch hit for a catcher late in a game and let him finish an inning or 2.  
 

Im not going to calm to be a Cartaya expert but indications are he is pretty solid as well behind the plate.

 

I not saying they are as good as Vasquez or a 1 to 1 replacement, but Camargo can absolutely hold his own as a back up catcher in the big leagues defensively.

I didn't say how many innings they caught last season. That wasn't the context. It was how long. Gasper has been listed as a catcher for many years which doesn't qualify him to be MLB-ready nor the amount of time in AAA for anyone else.

[tony&rodney]

41 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

It says that .375 won't solve our problems but it also won't cost 10 million that we don't have. 

Curious. Do you really think that $10M is a problem the Twins must fix this year, possibly before ST? I can't see that, but am wondering if others do.

[chpettit19]

9 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

This comes as a huge shock to Vazquez who has caught nearly 7000 innings in MLB. 

I'm so sorry for my wording. Vazquez is no longer an MLB quality catcher on a team attempting to win their division. 

[NYCTK]

1 minute ago, chpettit19 said:

I'm so sorry for my wording. Vazquez is no longer an MLB quality catcher on a team attempting to win their division. 

Well, as we know the Twins aren't particularly interested in that. So we're good. 

[jmlease1]

24 minutes ago, Trov said:

This is a lottery ticket trade.  He gets back to where he was a couple years ago it is great deal.  If he does not, most likely it only gets mentioned when someone does a deep dive of trades made over the years. 

I think that's right. Do I mind it? Not at all, taking a flyer on a former high-value prospect at a position of need in the system seems like a decent enough idea. relatively low risk, potential high gain. Are they going to be able to fix his bat? Maybe, maybe not...but if they do it'll be a big win.

Sometimes a player needs a fresh start.

I don't think this fixes the Twins needs at catcher, but adding another guy into the mix at the top end of the minors is a start at least.

[tony&rodney]

28 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Vazquez isn't an MLB catcher.

You don't like Christian Vazquez and make good points to support your claims. However, much like Brock and his rants on Kepler, a host of people calling for Julien to quit baseball or get cut, or the opposite approach where people believe Lewis is MVP material, it seems almost personal. I guess I can't think of getting so up or down on any MLB player that is largely just holding their job. I must confess that the use of Martin Maldonado seemed bewildering to me, but then I recalled how much I preferred an actual catcher behind the plate when I pitched as opposed to a hitter who dropped everything and blocked nothing.

[Parfigliano]

53 minutes ago, cmoss84 said:

I don't know if I want to know what is in her garbage cans! 

No you don't 

[tony&rodney]

1 hour ago, High heat said:

Camargo has been the catcher at AAA for 2 seasons now Cartaya spent half of last season at AAA.  Those guys are both capable big league catchers.  Might they be a drop off defensively from Vasquez or not as productive a bat as Jeffers but both are big league capable catchers.

Oof, I sure hope you are correct.

[Fatbat]

This is not a notable trade at the moment. Its also at best a 27% chance of ever bearing mlb fruit. 

[NYCTK]

6 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

You don't like Christian Vazquez and make good points to support your claims. However, much like Brock and his rants on Kepler, a host of people calling for Julien to quit baseball or get cut, or the opposite approach where people believe Lewis is MVP material, it seems almost personal. I guess I can't think of getting so up or down on any MLB player that is largely just holding their job. I must confess that the use of Martin Maldonado seemed bewildering to me, but then I recalled how much I preferred an actual catcher behind the plate when I pitched as opposed to a hitter who dropped everything and blocked nothing.

Especially a backup catcher. Most fans can't even name their team's backup catcher. 

And even so, Vazquez was 31st in the league last year in fWAR amongst the 60 catchers with at least 100 PAs. It's not his fault the Twins gave him an over market contract and their owner's are such cheap losers that the fans are fretting over $10 million in expenses in an $11 B industry. 

[TheLeviathan]

At worst we gave up nothing for nothing.

At best...we gave up nothing to take an interesting flyer that pans out.

You make that move 100% of the time.  Even if it develops into nothing.

[Mike Sixel]

54 minutes ago, Taildragger8791 said:

I had a hard time reading past the part where we got a catcher with a "persistent back injury". Do those get better with age and reps, like all the elbow issues on the pitchers we've traded for?

It's a lottery ticket. Who cares? Also, by all the pitchers you mean Lopez and Ryan? Duran?

[chpettit19]

29 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

You don't like Christian Vazquez and make good points to support your claims. However, much like Brock and his rants on Kepler, a host of people calling for Julien to quit baseball or get cut, or the opposite approach where people believe Lewis is MVP material, it seems almost personal. I guess I can't think of getting so up or down on any MLB player that is largely just holding their job. I must confess that the use of Martin Maldonado seemed bewildering to me, but then I recalled how much I preferred an actual catcher behind the plate when I pitched as opposed to a hitter who dropped everything and blocked nothing.

I've never said anything about not having a real catcher. It's not personal. I'm a fan of the Twins and would like them to win as many games as possible and, most importantly, a world series. I come on here and give my opinions like everyone else, including you. There's not a lot happening during this offseason so the same topics come up often.

It's often stated that Ryan Jeffers is the lesser defender and a hitter who happens to catch. Here's how the pitchers have performed with each of them behind the plate each of the last two years while Vazquez has been here and supposedly been the superior defensive catcher which is supposed to be the value he brings to the team and the reason you put up with his complete lack of any offensive production:

2023:
Vazquez- ERA: 4.09 RA9: 4.28
Jeffers-    ERA: 3.67 RA9: 3.86

2024:
Vazquez- ERA: 4.34 RA9: 4.63
Jeffers-    ERA: 4.17 RA9: 4.54

If he's not helping the pitchers perform better I just don't know what defense he's bringing.

23 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

Especially a backup catcher. Most fans can't even name their team's backup catcher. 

And even so, Vazquez was 31st in the league last year in fWAR amongst the 60 catchers with at least 100 PAs. It's not his fault the Twins gave him an over market contract and their owner's are such cheap losers that the fans are fretting over $10 million in expenses in an $11 B industry. 

Backup catcher? Christian Vazquez is not the backup catcher. They split the catching duties 50/50 last year and he caught more in 2023. And nobody has said it's his fault he has an over market deal. I'm happy for him that he got his money and convinced the Twins to throw in an extra year to get him to come here. Doesn't change his talent level or make him more likely to help the team win games, though.

And he was 31st out of 43 catchers with at least 200 PAs. 22 of 27, or 19th percentile if you go to the 300 PA mark that he was at as a non-backup catcher. When you add in an extra 30 players with 200 fewer PAs to a counting stat it can skew the numbers a little.

[NYCTK]

7 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Backup catcher? Christian Vazquez is not the backup catcher. They split the catching duties 50/50 last year and he caught more in 2023. And nobody has said it's his fault he has an over market deal. I'm happy for him that he got his money and convinced the Twins to throw in an extra year to get him to come here. Doesn't change his talent level or make him more likely to help the team win games, though.

And he was 31st out of 43 catchers with at least 200 PAs. 22 of 27, or 19th percentile if you go to the 300 PA mark that he was at as a non-backup catcher. When you add in an extra 30 players with 200 fewer PAs to a counting stat it can skew the numbers a little.

Sounds like your issue should be with Baldelli and/or Jeffers, not the backup catcher Vazquez. 

And you're saying he's even better than I am, the 22nd best catcher. Pretty good for someone that "isn't an MLB catcher" if we're being honest. 

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

My only concern with this approach is that it sounds like he needs lots of AB's to figure out his strike out rate and how will he get those AB's if he is sharing with Carmargo?  Just not sure if/how he develops in a sharing situation.

No one catches a lot more than the other catcher in the minors, other than the top most prospects. I'm not sure the issue?

[Danchat]

I concur with Leviathan, the kid we’re sending to the Dodgers is far off the prospect radar, may as well get something for him. See if Cartaya rebounds in a new environment, and if not then they move on. 

I also agree with Gasper not being a catcher. He’s not going to be a factor there.

[tony&rodney]

13 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I've never said anything about not having a real catcher. It's not personal. I'm a fan of the Twins and would like them to win as many games as possible and, most importantly, a world series. I come on here and give my opinions like everyone else, including you. There's not a lot happening during this offseason so the same topics come up often.

It's often stated that Ryan Jeffers is the lesser defender and a hitter who happens to catch. Here's how the pitchers have performed with each of them behind the plate each of the last two years while Vazquez has been here and supposedly been the superior defensive catcher which is supposed to be the value he brings to the team and the reason you put up with his complete lack of any offensive production:

2023:
Vazquez- ERA: 4.09 RA9: 4.28
Jeffers-    ERA: 3.67 RA9: 3.86

2024:
Vazquez- ERA: 4.34 RA9: 4.63
Jeffers-    ERA: 4.17 RA9: 4.54

If he's not helping the pitchers perform better I just don't know what defense he's bringing.

Backup catcher? Christian Vazquez is not the backup catcher. They split the catching duties 50/50 last year and he caught more in 2023. And nobody has said it's his fault he has an over market deal. I'm happy for him that he got his money and convinced the Twins to throw in an extra year to get him to come here. Doesn't change his talent level or make him more likely to help the team win games, though.

And he was 31st out of 43 catchers with at least 200 PAs. 22 of 27, or 19th percentile if you go to the 300 PA mark that he was at as a non-backup catcher. When you add in an extra 30 players with 200 fewer PAs to a counting stat it can skew the numbers a little.

Not a big fan of Vazquez or Jeffers. I have repeatedly called for the Twins to add catchers even offering to over pay in certain cases. I have no idea if it would work but a Brooks Lee for Jeferson Quero deal is at least an idea, whether rejected or laughed at by Twins fans.

Sorry if it seemed like I was picking on you. Didn't mean to do that. Certain players are, seemingly, a lightning rod for people. I think you have shown that Vazquez struggles and you do jump to point out his failings, which is fair. The Twins do split the catching duties and their catching situation could be worse. More and more teams follow that formula when lacking a clear better option. Some, like Philly, are going to reduce the load for their guy (Realmuto) to reduce the wear. 

In a different vein, there are an entire troop of people who strongly believe in Royce Lewis, yet want Edouard Julien traded or released. I don't get that, although I have argued for Lewis as the first baseman and think Julien would work well in a trade with a team looking for a LH DH/1B/2B player. 

The budget doesn't seem like a problem right now but the Twins are unlikely to add any decent free agents. I'm not sure that Vazquez isn't the only option other than Jeffers. I'm still holding out for a trade but believe the Twins are pretty much done.

[chpettit19]

3 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

Sounds like your issue should be with Baldelli and/or Jeffers, not the backup catcher Vazquez. 

And you're saying he's even better than I am, the 22nd best catcher. Pretty good for someone that "isn't an MLB catcher" if we're being honest. 

My issue is with the team, yes. My issue is not with Vazquez himself. It's not personal. Why would I have a personal issue with any player? All of these discussions are about the team building, player usage, etc. strategies the team deploys, not the players themselves. I have no issues with Vazquez. I wish he was better at baseball, but I also wish I'd been better at baseball so I could've played in the majors. I have no issue with him. Why would I? Do you have personal issues with Wallner and Lewis since you don't think they're as good as some of the rest of us do? 

No, actually I'm not. The fact that I added 200 PAs to the cutoff and he went from 31 to 22 is bad for him. It means that guys who had fewer opportunities to gain WAR were ahead of him. That means guys sitting on their butts doing nothing (actual backup catchers) outperformed him in a cumulative stat while he was playing. A guy with 100 PAs having more WAR than a guy with 300 PAs is bad for the guy with 300 PAs. removing those guys from the list so his number looks artificially better isn't saying he's even better, it's showing he's worse. You claimed he was basically in the middle by being 31 of 60. Essentially 50th percentile. But that's because you added a bunch of guys who shouldn't have had any shot at being close to him because they had 200 fewer times stepping to the plate which also means they had significantly fewer innings behind the plate to gain defensive WAR which is the only reason he had any WAR at all. Once you put him with the guys who had similar opportunities he dropped to the 19th percentile showing that he is actually very easily replaced by just about anybody and many of those 29 guys behind him on your list would've jumped him given the same amount of opportunity. 

[chpettit19]

3 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

Not a big fan of Vazquez or Jeffers. I have repeatedly called for the Twins to add catchers even offering to over pay in certain cases. I have no idea if it would work but a Brooks Lee for Jeferson Quero deal is at least an idea, whether rejected or laughed at by Twins fans.

Sorry if it seemed like I was picking on you. Didn't mean to do that. Certain players are, seemingly, a lightning rod for people. I think you have shown that Vazquez struggles and you do jump to point out his failings, which is fair. The Twins do split the catching duties and their catching situation could be worse. More and more teams follow that formula when lacking a clear better option. Some, like Philly, are going to reduce the load for their guy (Realmuto) to reduce the wear. 

In a different vein, there are an entire troop of people who strongly believe in Royce Lewis, yet want Edouard Julien traded or released. I don't get that, although I have argued for Lewis as the first baseman and think Julien would work well in a trade with a team looking for a LH DH/1B/2B player. 

The budget doesn't seem like a problem right now but the Twins are unlikely to add any decent free agents. I'm not sure that Vazquez isn't the only option other than Jeffers. I'm still holding out for a trade but believe the Twins are pretty much done.

I'm actually with you on the Lee for a catcher idea. But I agree we're in the minority there.

It's all good. I don't mind the Twins catching plan since neither guy seems qualified to take the bull by the horns and it's kept them both healthy for 2 straight seasons. I'd prefer a Realmuto in their prime, but those guys aren't easy to come by. 2-way catchers aren't falling off trees.

I don't want Julien released, but I'd trade him. Actually would've traded him before last year. For me it's about why a guy struggles. Lewis, I believe, based on his bat speed dropping 1.7 MPH in the last couple months, ran out of gas. Julien, I believe, has a swing problem. 1 is easier to fix than the other. Neither is impossible, but the odds are much greater for Lewis than Julien. And, for me, that's what all sports team management is about, playing the odds. It's all guess work. Educated guess work, but guess work, nonetheless. I think it's incredibly hard for a guy to change his swing angle he's had his whole life in his mid-20s so I'm quite skeptical Julien will ever be able to handle MLB breaking balls. And if he can't, I don't think he can succeed. Hope to be wrong, but that'd be my bet as the FO of the Twins. Lewis, I think, just needs to be able to make it through the grind of a season. I think that's easier to do.

I think the Twins are looking for trades, but I have no idea if they'll pull any off. It wouldn't be the first time they swung a bunch of moves after the new year. I think they like the team in general and it's hard to make moves on the edges when there isn't really any financial room to add, whether you have to subtract or not. You can do some shuffling of pieces stuff, like the reds moving India for Singer then replacing India with Lux, but those string of trades can be tricky. I'd like to see some moves, but I don't have a strong feeling one way or the other. No idea what they'll do.

[NYCTK]

2 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Do you have personal issues with Wallner and Lewis since you don't think they're as good as some of the rest of us do? 

Of course not, but I also try to remain honest about them. Even if I'm the most down on Wallner on the entire website, I don't mind the guy. Same with Royce, although his clubhouse issues are concerning to me going forward. 

 

6 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

You claimed he was basically in the middle by being 31 of 60.

And he is. He's a perfectly fine backup catcher, of which he is one. The ironic thing is I'm not even a fan of his.