Twins 3, Nationals 12: Things Are Going from Wurst to Worse

[Jocko87]

7 hours ago, h2oface said:

He is. He got caught cheating the shift a couple days ago. Still trying to work his special magic.

Dude, stop. You are embarrassing yourself with this over and over.

[Swing Batter-Batter]

11 hours ago, Schmoeman5 said:

I don't know how many times this lineup has to be marched out to face a lefty before Rocco figures out his ouija board is broke. Hell. Bring back Luplow and Garlick. Because this one isn't working. Pablo got beat up pretty good. An ACE is supposed to prevent or stop long losing streaks. And the bullpen is a mess. It's gotten so bad, that my wife who never misses a game switched it off. We never leave a game early or shut it off, no matter the score.

I wonder if someone on here has the stat showing how many games this "righty" dominated line up has actually won. My guess is, not many.

[Swing Batter-Batter]

1 hour ago, Twins_Fan_in_NJ said:

Players only meeting last night per ESPN. Also have Rocco for what seems like the 4th or 5th time this year come out in the media questioning the Twins' approach at the plate. I'm just dumbfounded that they haven't made a change among the trio of 'hitting coaches'.

I'm dumbfounded over the fact that Rocco comes out and says this and nothing changes. Afterall, he IS the manager and I am fairly certain that the coaches report to the manager. He sometimes acts like a third party, just observing the games.

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

13 minutes ago, Swing Batter-Batter said:

I'm dumbfounded over the fact that Rocco comes out and says this and nothing changes. Afterall, he IS the manager and I am fairly certain that the coaches report to the manager. He sometimes acts like a third party, just observing the games.

I've been wondering if his hands are tied - is the front office the one that wants Popkins and is pushing whatever this hitting 'philosophy' is supposed to be...

[Vanimal46]

It’s been the same type of comments over the last 3 seasons. Same problems with an offense that’s not good enough. We have a gluttony of 26/27 year old players that aren’t taking the next step at the MLB level. It really feels like this team is stuck in perpetual mediocrity. 

[mikelink45]

I would hate to be a Twins announcer at this time.  Imagine trying to fill the airspace with something that is printable or acceptable.  I believe they are thinking about going home, watching the Timberwolves, and having a glass of something to soothe their spirits.  

This team got on a winning streak against bad teams after a terrible start, now it went in the tank against two good teams, with hope we could bounce back against a bad Nationals team - that didn't work.

I remember all the articles on TD about how we have the best BP in the league or close to it with the moves this off season - anyone want to go back and read them?  Lopez has great talent and great inconsistency.  Ober and Ryan have been the anchors in the rotation and Paddock and SWR have done well, but have been deserted by an offensive offense.

How stubborn can a team be to continue to have Vasquez, who certainly did not show his defensive prowess yesterday, Farmer, Margot, who cannot bat, field, or run, in the starting lineup.  Come on - platoon baseball is not working.  

We need changes!  Or are we just waiting for Lewis to come back and save us?

[Linus]

1 hour ago, Karbo said:

Look at the splits for Parker. Lefties have been much better against him. Yet, we sit the better hitters for guys struggling to get above the Mendoza line. I thought Rocco played off the stat sheet for lineups.

Yea that was a head scratcher for me too. I understand the strategy when facing a lefty that is tough on lefty hitters but this was an opportunity missed in my book. 

[wabene]

7 hours ago, h2oface said:

Pablo Day Lopez. Right. This is what he is. A career 4+ ERA pitcher. He can look good some games, but he is really nothing special. Certainly not the leader of a pitching staff, or an ace. He has career stats to back it up.

This is what rotten meat sausage worship and arrogant post game selfies on the mound get you. Embarrassment Karma. It was classless then, too. Even during the winning streak, Baldelli would play 4 or 5 players with .100something batting averages. It has to catch up to a team, and it has.

This is really embarrassing. 

 

You disappeared during the good times last fall when Pablo put the team on his back, made courageous playoff starts and led the team in breaking the horrible playoff streaks. You are back now enforce during a downturn, seemingly energized. What do you have to say about Pablo's post-season performance?

Rally sausage? Who cares. It was stupid and fun. That upsets you somehow?

[rv78]

32 minutes ago, Swing Batter-Batter said:

I'm dumbfounded over the fact that Rocco comes out and says this and nothing changes. Afterall, he IS the manager and I am fairly certain that the coaches report to the manager. He sometimes acts like a third party, just observing the games.

I'm not. Rocco isn't that bright. Remember, he is the one who had Buxton and Correa rest on the same day a couple of years ago and couldn't figure out how to keep that from happening when their "scheduled" days off fall on the same day. He's the same guy that will use a predominately righty lineup against a lefty pitcher even though the pitcher has opposite splits. Or he'll bat his .190 hitter in the 3 hole of the lineup and the guy hitting .275 in the 9 spot only because they are a lefty or a righty verses that pitcher that day. He thinks rest prevents injuries. The only time it does is because they didn't play. If you are so tired that you'll hurt yourself then you are doing something more strenuous than just playing baseball or you have an underlying condition that is aggravated by playing, so you should be on the Il. Rocco and or the FO's philosophy, which I think are tied at the hip are the problem with this team. Fire Falvey, Lavine, Rocco and his coaches and go back to old school baseball and a lot of problems will go away.

[Linus]

And to make matters worse we got to listen to Denard Span babble during this crap. I watched the first 6 innings and the guy went on and on and didn’t say one thing that added to the telecast. Three guys in the booth is always a disaster. 

[msukirbycarew]

For th last 5 years I loved this site and enjoyed  reading intelligent  comments after the articles.  What is worse than this losing streak is having to listen to the fire Falvey, Rocco and screw the Pohlads comments.   Give it bnrek trying to ct like you are a baseball executive savant.  You whiners have ruined this site so I will leave you all to wallow in your own misery.

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

Not to beat a dead horse but Popkins just seems like such low hanging fruit. His resume pre-Twins never lent itself to being a MLB team and aside from a hot streak to end 2023, the offense has been generally ineffective if not completely overmatched. But alas - if it is more of an organizational philosophy as opposed to a lack of competent coaching, we're stuck with the status quo for at least 2024 and likely longer.

[Vanimal46]

54 minutes ago, msukirbycarew said:

For th last 5 years I loved this site and enjoyed  reading intelligent  comments after the articles.  What is worse than this losing streak is having to listen to the fire Falvey, Rocco and screw the Pohlads comments.   Give it bnrek trying to ct like you are a baseball executive savant.  You whiners have ruined this site so I will leave you all to wallow in your own misery.

Complaining about “whiners” doesn’t add anything to the discussion either. Want to do something about it? Post an intelligent comment yourself. 

[USAFChief]

Did Rocco mention his 3rd base coach last night, who snuffed a rally with an absolute stinker of a send?

Did he mention his own slavish addiction to platoon deployments which had a guy currently OPSing BELOW .500 hitting THIRD?? His baseless belief that his best players can't play every day? 

I posted last year Baldelli needed to go. Got some flack, but it was true then, it's true now.

Managers matter, and ours doesn't get the most from his team.

[Linus]

21 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Did Rocco mention his 3rd base coach last night, who snuffed a rally with an absolute stinker of a send?

Did he mention his own slavish addiction to platoon deployments which had a guy currently OPSing BELOW .500 hitting THIRD?? His baseless belief that his best players can't play every day? 

I posted last year Baldelli needed to go. Got some flack, but it was true then, it's true now.

Managers matter, and ours doesn't get the most from his team.

I understand your frustration but if Falvine are in charge the next guy will do the exact same thing. 

[bean5302]

4 hours ago, dogsday said:

Ownership right-sized their spending, the players are right-sizing their performance. Fans can right-size their engagement. 

If I were Falvey or Levine I'm probably wishing I'd chosen this year to say 'Mission accomplished. The organization has been remade and is in a good place, and I 'm moving on.'

 

 

Levine tried. Nobody wanted to give him a job. I think you might be seeing why...

[David Maro]

I want to know who will have more fans in the stands Friday,the Wolves or Twins.If stats are so important for Rocco he would have seen Lopez has a losing record at the Nat's.And why is Kepler riding the bench,he has been hitting LP.You can't have Vasquez in the lineup because his whole game has been a disaster.What I see is a 4th place team who can start making golf reservations for October 1st.

 

[thelanges5]

The rest of the league has read this article and the Twins haven't seen it? Aaron Gleeman called this out in late April (link below). Can someone show this to Rocco, Popkins, Falvine etc?

Rocco postgame - “The guy just stood out there and threw off speed pitches for like four straight innings, and we didn't do anything about it,” Baldelli said. “We continued to kind of wave at them and look for fastballs, which today, weren't coming. In this stretch of games where we've been struggling, that's been a common theme. We're going up there swinging big, and swinging big is not getting it done right now, because we're swinging like they're throwing all fastballs and they don't throw us very many fastballs.”

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5435914/2024/04/23/twins-hitters-off-speed-struggles/

[insagt1]

Twins fashioned a 12 game win streak, which is hard to do no matter who the opposition is. Winning begets winning. yes 7 of the wins were against the White Sox who clearly are not very good. But you are supposed to win those games, and the Twins did. Score one for the schedule when Twins needed to dig out. Problem is now they are facing excellent teams and they have learned that they can't keep up. They are 0-12 against Yanks, Guards and Os...all 3 major contenders for the WS. And for the most part the losses have been ugly and non-competitive. No hitting, not much pitching and not much of anything else.

We were hoping for a refresh against a struggling Gnats team. Instead we got thrashed. So what to do? Apparently the budget is not looking to be in our favor. There are several players not pulling their weight...at all. Could they make a bold move and ship 3 or 4 out..somehow, someway? Are AAA reinforcements the answer? (looks like no so far) Are the manager and coaches to blame for some of this? Honestly, who really knows.

7 game losing streak is tough especially when the 2 teams ahead are playing real good ball this season. Fall too far behind and it will be difficult to catch up, especially when you can't beat them head to head.

All is not lost, but conversely, all doesn't look real good. Houston got off to a miserable start, but they are a talented bunch and have really righted the ship. Twins can't match that talent. They won;t sink below the Sox, but they also might be irrelevant by July 4th if some changes aren't made. Will they? Can they? thankfully its a long season!

[mickster]

3 hours ago, Swing Batter-Batter said:

I wonder if someone on here has the stat showing how many games this "righty" dominated line up has actually won. My guess is, not many.

this is where Analytical driven thinking is ruining the game.   Start your 9, use bench to rest players.  Margot as your 3 hitter - WTF

[NotAboutWinning]

Stop with the insane platooning already! First it ruined the offense, now it has messed up the defense. No one other than Correa and the switch-hitters is getting any consistent playing time. I've heard the argument that platooning has been part of baseball forever. Yes, you swap out a .600 OPS lefty for a .600 OPS righty in the hopes that the match-up will net you a few more points of OPS. You do not swap out a .950 OPS lefty for a .500 OPS righty and expect to get a better outcome! And you don't pinch hit in the 5th inning because, surprise, that batter come back around to haunt you in the 8th inning! This is baseball 101.

[bean5302]

3 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

I would hate to be a Twins announcer at this time.  Imagine trying to fill the airspace with something that is printable or acceptable.  I believe they are thinking about going home, watching the Timberwolves, and having a glass of something to soothe their spirits.  

This team got on a winning streak against bad teams after a terrible start, now it went in the tank against two good teams, with hope we could bounce back against a bad Nationals team - that didn't work.

I remember all the articles on TD about how we have the best BP in the league or close to it with the moves this off season - anyone want to go back and read them?  Lopez has great talent and great inconsistency.  Ober and Ryan have been the anchors in the rotation and Paddock and SWR have done well, but have been deserted by an offensive offense.

How stubborn can a team be to continue to have Vasquez, who certainly did not show his defensive prowess yesterday, Farmer, Margot, who cannot bat, field, or run, in the starting lineup.  Come on - platoon baseball is not working.  

We need changes!  Or are we just waiting for Lewis to come back and save us?

I think it's easy enough to put some positive spins out there most of the time, and that's their job. Take Manuel Margot.

First guy: That brings the young veteran Margot to the plate. Rocco's got him playing today against a left handed pitcher and that's been an easy call for the last several years as he's really hit lefties well over the course of his career and full seasons. This year hasn't clicked right out of the gate, but you have to believe the bat will come around, and he's certainly shown life over the past 3 games.

Other guy: Yeah, and you know, guys like Margot are under appreciated. They come in and play wherever you want them in the outfield, and that's something they need to back up Byron Buxton in center. I know a lot of fans were hoping see Taylor back this year, but between the two, Margot's been the better hitter over his career, and Taylor's had a real rough start to this season as well.

First guy: That's true! Look at Kepler last year. Sometimes things just don't go your way, but you have to believe it'll balance out over time, and Margot certainly looks like he's putting it together over these past couple games right when the Twins need it most!

[howeda7]

3 hours ago, Swing Batter-Batter said:

I'm dumbfounded over the fact that Rocco comes out and says this and nothing changes. Afterall, he IS the manager and I am fairly certain that the coaches report to the manager. He sometimes acts like a third party, just observing the games.

This is why firing Rocco without firing Falvey is pointless. The manager is told who to start and which relievers will be used every day  at 2:00 by the analytics department. He is mostly just an observer.

[howeda7]

21 minutes ago, NotAboutWinning said:

Stop with the insane platooning already! First it ruined the offense, now it has messed up the defense. No one other than Correa and the switch-hitters is getting any consistent playing time. I've heard the argument that platooning has been part of baseball forever. Yes, you swap out a .600 OPS lefty for a .600 OPS righty in the hopes that the match-up will net you a few more points of OPS. You do not swap out a .950 OPS lefty for a .500 OPS righty and expect to get a better outcome! And you don't pinch hit in the 5th inning because, surprise, that batter come back around to haunt you in the 8th inning! This is baseball 101.

The platoon should be limited to Castro in LF or at 2B and at most ONE of Farmer or Margot for Kiriloff/Larnach/Julien. Not all 3 of them and not giving Vazquez 15 ABs per week. Vazquez should be catching one game per series and that's it. Kepler should be in the line-up every day period. Obviously DFA'ing Margot and Vazquez would be preferable.

[Schmoeman5]

7 hours ago, dogsday said:

Ownership right-sized their spending, the players are right-sizing their performance. Fans can right-size their engagement. 

If I were Falvey or Levine I'm probably wishing I'd chosen this year to say 'Mission accomplished. The organization has been remade and is in a good place, and I 'm moving on.'

 

 

What Is the definition of right-size? Is it getting what WE think you deserve? 🤔 

[Doctor Gast]

Pure humiliation

[bean5302]

7 minutes ago, Schmoeman5 said:

What Is the definition of right-size? Is it getting what WE think you deserve? 🤔 

Right-size probably means something like not projecting losses if the team doesn't advance in the playoffs. The Twins look to have made money last year based on Forbes projections so seeing them cut payroll burns, and he debacle with Diamond Sports/Bally Sports North deserves a lengthy apology and explanation to fans from ownership, along with a plan for how that can never happen again.

The Twins are still running a cumulative loss since 2019, and the fans aren't attending with various excuses, er "reasons" while the ownership still spends more on payroll than their rank in attendance.

What many Twins fans "expect" is not possible to achieve. It's a generally moving target of a $1B payroll made up of a 75 man active roster in violation of MLB rules, consisting of the top 25 free agents, 25 sure fire favorite prospects, and the 25 best players currently in the organization. Also, it requires free tickets, plus free private limo transportation to/from the games, a personal game day maid/butler (whichever you prefer) who delivers free gourmet food and beverages to wherever you're walking/sitting in the stadium. A weather control machine to make sure the game is always played under ideal weather conditions is a given. The owners should also be at every game, greeting fans on their hands and knees groveling for forgiveness for being wealthy and successful, and if that's not enough to get fans at the game, the fans at home should be able to watch the game for free with free Door Dash/Uber Eats or free food/alcohol at the bar where the game is broadcast. The Twins should also win every game by no less than 20 runs and the World Series every year. If the Pohlads are willing to do this for 10 straight years, some people on this forum MIGHT be willing to attend a game, though it's probably not enough because of how the Twins played back in the mid-90s so the ownership must still be taught a lesson.

 

[USAFChief]

4 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

Right-size probably means something like not projecting losses if the team doesn't advance in the playoffs. The Twins look to have made money last year based on Forbes projections so seeing them cut payroll burns, and he debacle with Diamond Sports/Bally Sports North deserves a lengthy apology and explanation to fans from ownership, along with a plan for how that can never happen again.

The Twins are still running a cumulative loss since 2019, and the fans aren't attending with various excuses, er "reasons" while the ownership still spends more on payroll than their rank in attendance.

What many Twins fans "expect" is not possible to achieve. It's a generally moving target of a $1B payroll made up of a 75 man active roster in violation of MLB rules, consisting of the top 25 free agents, 25 sure fire favorite prospects, and the 25 best players currently in the organization. Also, it requires free tickets, plus free private limo transportation to/from the games, a personal game day maid/butler (whichever you prefer) who delivers free gourmet food and beverages to wherever you're walking/sitting in the stadium. A weather control machine to make sure the game is always played under ideal weather conditions is a given. The owners should also be at every game, greeting fans on their hands and knees groveling for forgiveness for being wealthy and successful, and if that's not enough to get fans at the game, the fans at home should be able to watch the game for free with free Door Dash/Uber Eats or free food/alcohol at the bar where the game is broadcast. The Twins should also win every game by no less than 20 runs and the World Series every year. If the Pohlads are willing to do this for 10 straight years, some people on this forum MIGHT be willing to attend a game, though it's probably not enough because of how the Twins played back in the mid-90s so the ownership must still be taught a lesson.

 

 

[Schmoeman5]

1 minute ago, bean5302 said:

The Twins are still running a cumulative loss since 2019, and the fans aren't attending with various excuses, er "reasons" while the ownership still spends more on payroll than their rank in attendance.

What many Twins fans "expect" is not possible to achieve. It's a generally moving target of a $1B payroll made up of a 75 man active roster in violation of MLB rules, consisting of the top 25 free agents, 25 sure fire favorite prospects, and the 25 best players currently in the organization. Also, it requires free tickets, plus free private limo transportation to/from the games, a personal game day maid/butler (whichever you prefer) who delivers free gourmet food and beverages to wherever you're walking/sitting in the stadium. A weather control machine to make sure the game is always played under ideal weather conditions is a given. The owners should also be at every game, greeting fans on their hands and knees groveling for forgiveness for being wealthy and successful, and if that's not enough to get fans at the game, the fans at home should be able to watch the game for free with free Door Dash/Uber Eats or free food/alcohol at the bar where the game is broadcast. The Twins should also win every game by no less than 20 runs and the World Series every year. If the Pohlads are willing to do this for 10 straight years, some people on this forum MIGHT be willing to attend a game, though it's probably not enough because of how the Twins played back in the mid-90s so the ownership must still be taught a lesson.

 

I attend 15-20 games every year in Minnesota and my wife and I schedule at least 1 road trip per year. This year it just so happened to be Cleveland series. 1 hour removed from a colonoscopy and on the road to Cleveland. What does this mean to me? And where is the PROOF that the Twins have been operating at a cumulative loss since 2019?

[h2oface]

7 hours ago, Patzky said:

I'd be ok with putting Correa as a player-manager.

Oh my. New garbage cans on order?