I'm officially done with Rocco

[wsnydes]

3 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Rocco honestly seems like a great guy. However, the Twins PR people didn’t even want to have a press conference to announce that he had been extended. Instead, it was a leak. Even Gardy had press conferences. 

 

Perhaps Rocco was the one that didn't want the press conference?

[Brock Beauchamp]

18 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Rocco honestly seems like a great guy. However, the Twins PR people didn’t even want to have a press conference to announce that he had been extended. Instead, it was a leak. Even Gardy had press conferences. 

This is quite common in baseball, actually. Because teams are under no obligation to report front office or management salaries or contracts, they often decline to do so.

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

16 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Today's managerial misconduct (PHing Vazquez) moved me over the edge.

Just simply can't stand him routinely getting outmanaged. And today was freaking ridiculously bad.

I was done with Rocco a couple of months ago. You're far more patient than I am. Being outmanaged. And the games, typically 1 or 2 a week, where the team is just completely lethargic and flat. Teams take on the personality of their manager. If the cameras pan over to Rocco 10 times a game, 10 times we get that stoic blank stare into space regardless of the situation or status of the game. It's time for the Twins to move on but that's not happening anytime soon.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

23 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

This is quite common in baseball, actually. Because teams are under no obligation to report front office or management salaries or contracts, they often decline to do so.

Ok gotcha. I should have said press release not press conference. The money and terms are irrelevant. No team (no decent team) would pass up a chance to announce their good manager had been extended. It just wouldn’t happen. I did a quick google check of Francona and Roberts and they got press when they were extended. 

[Squirrel]

2 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Ok gotcha. I should have said press release not press conference. The money and terms are irrelevant. No team (no decent team) would pass up a chance to announce their good manager had been extended. It just wouldn’t happen. I did a quick google check of Francona and Roberts and they got press when they were extended. 

This is really reaching. It’s conspiracy theory level thinking. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

10 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Ok gotcha. I should have said press release not press conference. The money and terms are irrelevant. No team (no decent team) would pass up a chance to announce their good manager had been extended. It just wouldn’t happen. I did a quick google check of Francona and Roberts and they got press when they were extended. 

The Twins were coming off two disappointing seasons. There could be a dozen reasons why they didn't announce it right away. It could have been at Rocco's request. Given that this practice is pretty common in baseball, I think it's a bit of a reach to try to read tea leaves on this.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

1 hour ago, wsnydes said:

Perhaps Rocco was the one that didn't want the press conference?

Rocco the Shrinking Violet? 🙂

[wsnydes]

3 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Rocco the Shrinking Violet? 🙂

I guess that I'd be one that would say skip the press.  I couldn't care less about it.  What's the point?  I'm not getting hired.  I'm not getting fired.  It's just continuing business as usual.

[Five minute major]

Glad to see you joining the club USAF.  Been screaming at the top of the mountain for a couple years now.   He absolutely rode the coattails of Nelson Cruz for his first couple years and now is benefitting from being in the worst division in MLB.   

But this FO is equally inept as well.  The fanbase in this state has been beaten down to the point of moral victories and "he's a nice guy" takes.   Eff that.  We are going NOWHERE with this FO or coach.   The entire organization needs to be gutted at all executive leadership/managerial levels.  

It is glaringly obvious.  

 

 

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Riverbrian]

11 hours ago, Seth Stohs said:

This @TwinsData twitter chart explains this completely... I get it. I want young guys to be given the opportunity to show they can hit lefties, but to this point, they haven't, and they haven't to some really, really bad numbers. 

Definitely not even close to a fire-able offense... 

 

9th Inning pinch hit. Vazquez doesn't excite me about I'm Ok with the move in that moment. Barely Ok because Julien is the better hitter but at least it wasn't the 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th inning where the right handed pinch hitter has to face the right hander closer in the 9th.   

However... Let's be clear. The number in that red circle is 42. It took 96 games to get that many AB's against lefties.

The Twins are self manufacturing the need to pinch hit Vazquez for Julien in the 9th inning.  

42 AB's against lefties in 96 games. It's going to take a long time to repair those numbers at the pace the Twins are allowing him to travel.

I'd actually like to suggest that we stop quoting 42 AB's out of fairness to Julien.   

I can justify this move at this time... Barely... but I can't justify that the Twins have created this need for Vazquez by decree more than Julien has created this need through performance.

42 AB's ain't much. 

 

[TopGunn#22]

I can't disagree with the frustration.  Jax was outstanding at one point this season but he's clearly been wearing down and you don't earn 10 losses out of the BP by being "stellar."  Rocco has always had a preternatural knack for choosing just the wrong guy out of the BP. 

I'm no fan of the "early" PH, and by "early" I mean anything before the 6th inning.  Yes, Julien and Kirilloff have struggled against LH pitching but splits be damned, Vasquez is just NOT the guy who I'm excited to see come up to hit in ANY situation this year.  We signed him for 3 years and $30 million.  Jeffers has turned the corner and left Vasquez in the dust as nothing more than an expensive backup.  To be honest, I'm all for trading Vasquez to a catching needy team this off season. We can use that $10 million for something better.  At worst, Julien and Kirilloff could draw a walk against LH pitching.  I doubt the Saints PH for either when a lefty was brought in.  At least when Solano came up to hit for Kirilloff there was a better chance it could have worked out, but not that early in the game.  

The Twins have been gifted the division this year, so why not keep putting young players like Julien and Kirilloff in positions  where they can grow?  The youth movement is upon us even if Polanco and Kepler are retained for 2024.  Lewis, Kirilloff and Julien are locks to be major contributors next year.  Brooks Lee could very well break camp with the team right out of spring training.  Wallner is a work in progress but he's probably up to stay.  If we had rallied and sent the game into extra innings Rocco had no bench to work with.  It's like challenging a 4 yard completion on the opening drive of the game.  Even if it's obvious, why gamble when it's not an impactful play at that stage of the game?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

15 minutes ago, wsnydes said:

I guess that I'd be one that would say skip the press.  I couldn't care less about it.  What's the point?  I'm not getting hired.  I'm not getting fired.  It's just continuing business as usual.

My original point is that the team did not even announce it. Nothing conspiratorial about it. It’s not a good look. 

Anyway, my thumbs are tired and I have actual **** to do. See you in the game threads, wsnydes.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

17 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Today's managerial misconduct (PHing Vazquez) moved me over the edge.

Just simply can't stand him routinely getting outmanaged. And today was freaking ridiculously bad.

So does that mean you stop watching, following the Twins, and posting until a change is made   😄

[wabene]

15 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

My original point is that the team did not even announce it. Nothing conspiratorial about it. It’s not a good look. 

Anyway, my thumbs are tired and I have actual **** to do. See you in the game threads, wsnydes.

I suggest swipe text! One finger gliding around your screen

[Linus]

I don’t like the 4th innings pinch hits but I’m not bothered by the Vasquez move. Rocco had two low percentage choices. Perhaps if Julien would swing the bat on a pitch on the black he might be the better choice in clutch situations. 

[Ricky Vaughn]

As bad as yesterdays move was, I thought Sundays lack of a move was worse. Letting Vazquez hit in the bottom of the ninth when Jeffers was sitting in the bench was truly moronic.

[Brock Beauchamp]

42 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

 

Congratulations, you just found four examples of teams that won the division and/or went to the World Series who rode positive vibes with a manager announcement.

[Squirrel]

38 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

My original point is that the team did not even announce it. Nothing conspiratorial about it. It’s not a good look. 

Anyway, my thumbs are tired and I have actual **** to do. See you in the game threads, wsnydes.

It’s reaching and not even on topic. Start a thread to discuss his extension and lack of a press conference if you think something was afoot.

[Woof Bronzer]

7 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Congratulations, you just found four examples of teams that won the division and/or went to the World Series who rode positive vibes with a manager announcement.

Isn't that kinda the point?  Quietly extending a manager coming off of 2 really bad years seems to suggest they didn't want to promote the fact that he was extended.  So...why didn't they want to?  If I give an employee a raise it's because that employee has earned it and deserves to be recognized for it, and I announce it right away.  Wanting to extend someone, but not wanting the public to know that you want to extend them, is really odd.  

[emoeby]

I thought for sure this was going to be a Randball's Stu article

[Coach Wheels]

16 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

I've been unhappy about this for weeks. Welcome to the club. 

Same here. His right vs lefty or lefty vs righty nonsense has to stop. He PH for Kiriloff, Wallner, and Julien yesterday with RH bats that are outs. Let the young guys take these AB's and learn to succeed and potentially win. It's complete garbage the philosophy he's using, like all our parts are the same; they aren't, it's not close.

[Brock Beauchamp]

23 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

Isn't that kinda the point?  Quietly extending a manager coming off of 2 really bad years seems to suggest they didn't want to promote the fact that he was extended.  So...why didn't they want to?  If I give an employee a raise it's because that employee has earned it and deserves to be recognized for it, and I announce it right away.  Wanting to extend someone, but not wanting the public to know that you want to extend them, is really odd.  

My point is that we don't know the reasoning why not to publicize the Rocco extension but it's pretty obvious the reasons why those teams did publicize their extensions.

My general rule is that if I have, say, 5% of the information on a particular subject, I don't try to fill in the 95% I don't know because all I reveal is my own bias, not any kind of truth.

[jmlease1]

9 hours ago, Twodogs said:

If you look up the Atlanta Braves stats on baseball reference, you'll notice that they have 9 guys with 400 or more plate appearances.  Then they have a guy on the bench with like 260 plate appearances and he's the backup catcher then you have pillar with 160 plate appearances who's like the 4th Ofer.  After that pretty much nothing.  I wonder how many times Rocco would sit Matt Olson down because a tough lefty is on the mound if he were managing the Braves???   

Never? Matt Olson has a platoon split, but it's not all that extreme and he's a quality hitter against basically everyone. You don't see Rocco pinch-hitting for Correa based on matchups either (he gets subbed out to give him some time off, not to go find a platoon advantage).

I love Ed Julien, and I think he's going to be a big part of the team's success now and in the future...but so far he's been really bad against LHP. Julien draws walks by the bushel, and has exactly zero so far against a LHP. That's a little concerning for a guy who draws one 1 out of 6 PAs. Yes, it's only 42 PAs so far, but zero walks and only 1 xbh and he hasn't looked good against lefties at all.

The reality is TB has a great bullpen.

[Brock Beauchamp]

9 hours ago, Twodogs said:

If you look up the Atlanta Braves stats on baseball reference, you'll notice that they have 9 guys with 400 or more plate appearances.  Then they have a guy on the bench with like 260 plate appearances and he's the backup catcher then you have pillar with 160 plate appearances who's like the 4th Ofer.  After that pretty much nothing.  I wonder how many times Rocco would sit Matt Olson down because a tough lefty is on the mound if he were managing the Braves???   

So you're saying that a team with a historically good offense doesn't platoon much because their hitters are exceptional.

[raaschjt]

You guys want to win games. Rocco wants to win a championship. 
He knows what his guys can do. My thinking on the decisions was this:
- The AL central is pretty much already sewn up for the Twins. This means:
- They only have to win enough games to have a better record than the Guardians.
- He knows how lethal their lineup can be and he doesn't want them getting more at bats against his best guys, because:
- This is a team that is likely to be seen deep in the playoffs.

However, he did need to beat the Guardians. That's why he played every game with them like it was in October. 

That's my thought. He just might be a subtle genius.

[Woof Bronzer]

12 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

My point is that we don't know the reasoning why not to publicize the Rocco extension but it's pretty obvious the reasons why those teams did publicize their extensions.

My general rule is that if I have, say, 5% of the information on a particular subject, I don't try to fill in the 95% I don't know because all I reveal is my own bias, not any kind of truth.

I hear ya.  I guess my point was more that teams typically extend managers after some sort of success, not after a debacle  season.  Which Falvine seemed to grasp, hence the silence.  So the question would be, why extend him then?  Anyway.  

[Brock Beauchamp]

5 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

I hear ya.  I guess my point was more that teams typically extend managers after some sort of success, not after a debacle  season.  Which Falvine seemed to grasp, hence the silence.  So the question would be, why extend him then?  Anyway.  

If a team plans to keep a manager around, they often extend them before they can enter a lame duck season just to avoid potential drama and distractions. That's what appeared to happen with Baldelli. And while the Twins were disappointing in 2022, it's hard to pin much of that on Rocco. Having one of the worst injury records in baseball was the most obvious culprit, which is why the front office hired Paparesta.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

1 minute ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

If a team plans to keep a manager around, they often extend them before they can enter a lame duck season just to avoid potential drama and distractions. That's what appeared to happen with Baldelli. And while the Twins were disappointing in 2021, it's hard to pin much of that on Rocco. Having one of the worst injury records in baseball was the most obvious culprit, which is why the front office hired Paparesta.

He is signed through 2025 correct?

[Brock Beauchamp]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

He is signed through 2025 correct?

Based on Cody's article here, "unknown time period but at least 2025".