That's One Fine Looking Saints Team.. Why Don't the Twins Look Like That?

[Hans Birkeland]

The Triple-A team in St. Paul is cooking on a daily basis, it seems, with live arms and powerful bats. Which Saints players stand a chance to impact the Twins' playoff run in September, and how can room be made for them?

Image courtesy of Rob Thompson, St. Paul Saints (photo of Austin Martin)

Young players are wild cards. Sometimes they pop right up, like Edouard Julien and Matt Wallner, and become instant contributors. Sometimes they flop, like Jose Miranda (though a healthy shoulder could certainly improve things). But the energy that a young star can provide to a lagging team is immeasurable, especially in the postseason. Jeremy Pena and Bryson Stott proved that last year in their team’s respective runs. Sometimes a young guy plays a bit part that changes the scope of how a team operates, like Terrance Gore as pinch runner extraordinaire for the Royals’ World Series teams, or David Price in the bullpen for the 2008 Tampa Bay Rays. Do the Twins have anyone that can provide the sort of youthful magnetism that sparks runs through the playoffs? Yeah, there’s a few.

Austin Martin
Martin has created some potential call-up buzz with his hot start to August. He offers elite speed, controls the strike zone and hits right-handed, all strengths the major-league team seems to lack. If he played for, say, the Rays or Orioles, his skillset wouldn’t matter nearly as much. Those teams have plenty of dynamic young players who can hit lefties and spark a rally.

He also doesn’t have power, and frankly, that may only help the Twins. Since the departure of Luis Arraez, they could use a guy the opposing pitcher knows is not trying to go bridge with every swing (something I wrote about previously). In the playoffs, that can be terrifying when a single in the right moment can swing the outcome of a game. Similarly, if Martin reaches base late in the game (his OBP is currently .381 for the Saints) that can create high anxiety for a pitcher, especially if they struggle to hold runners on. The team is certainly keeping a close eye on his progress to see if they want to bite the bullet and add Martin to the 40-man and active roster before rosters expand.

DaShawn Keirsey
A late-blooming outfielder, Keirsey played well this year for the Wind Surge before being called up to St. Paul less than two weeks ago. He is a major speed threat (33 steals in 2023) who plays a strong center field and can pop the occasional home run. A lefty, he could be a platoon-mate for Michael A. Taylor, much like Nick Gordon before his injury. He’s 26, so the Twins should see what they have in Keirsey before they have to make a 40-man decision on him this offseason.

Chris Williams
Williams has major power from the right side of the plate, plays first base and can play catcher as well. He tends to go on major home run heaters, and a well-timed one could be a boon to an offense lacking in both right-handed bats and first basemen. He has posted a .919 OPS for the Saints this year and, like Keirsey, would have to be added to the 40-man this offseason or else be exposed to the Rule 5 draft (as they both have the last two years).

Andrew Stevenson
The speedster has played left and center field for the Saints after being picked up off waivers from Washington after playing parts of five seasons in the big leagues with the Nationals. He has an .895 OPS this year, with 38 steals and 14 home runs. He could be a lightning-in-a-bottle-type who plays with the sort of urgency you can only get from a 29-year-old trying to prove he belongs. However, he hits left-handed and is better suited for left-field, so he wouldn’t make sense without an injury or two to the current crop of Twins lefty corner bats.

Brooks Lee
Lee is still adjusting to Triple-A. He looks the part of an impact bat and has since before he was drafted eighth overall in 2022. He offers pop from both sides of the plate and controls the strike zone. He has a line-drive swing that looked like it would lead to a lot of doubles coming out of college. Potentially more of those liners will turn into home runs as he fills out (and he has). Where the Twins could put him is a big question mark, and they may internally think he’s better off adjusting to Triple-A and playing every day for the time being unless a major infield injury occurs. It would be exciting to see a polished young bat like his in a postseason lineup facing a guy without a full scouting report on him yet.

Yunior Severino
Severino is a poor man’s Lee, but he’s a little older (24 in October) and has more current power in his profile. He has played both second base and third base, and he can switch-hit. His numbers have improved each of the last three years as he has moved up the system, culminating in a .913 OPS this year with 25 homers (all but one in Wichita). He has also been playing some first base recently, meaning the Twins may be looking at him if Joey Gallo continues to struggle and Alex Kirilloff isn’t able to return from his shoulder injury.

Kody Funderburk
Funderburk is a left-handed reliever, and the Twins currently only have one in their pen in 36-year-old Caleb Thielbar. It may be worth seeing if Funderburk, 26, can contribute in the big leagues. He has struck out 36% of batters thus far in 2023. His walk rate is a little high (11.2%), but he isn’t Jovani Moran. Surprising a playoff opponent with a lefty they have never faced could be an advantage in a short series.

Roster Implications 
None of these guys are on the 40-man roster, so adding them to the active roster would require some difficult decisions. It is possible. If the team were to add, say, two players to the 40-man, they could move Jose Miranda and Jorge Alcala to the 60-day IL. They could also outright Oliver Ortega, who had a nice run but doesn’t look like an impact arm long-term.

Adding players to the active roster is trickier. Gallo is a DFA candidate if his recent adjustments are a mirage, while Kyle Farmer has just one more year of arbitration and hasn’t done the thing he’s most skilled at (crushing lefties) this year. The presence of Donovan Solano and Royce Lewis make him, arguably, redundant, though he is beloved in the clubhouse. Willi Castro and Jordan Luplow both have options, as well. I would hazard a guess that at least one of the players currently on the 26-man roster will succumb to some sort of injury in the coming weeks.

But this team shouldn’t wait. Players need to be on the 40-man before rosters expand to be eligible for the playoffs (although they can be creative with injury replacements), and trotting out a lineup that features Luplow and Castro at the top of it as they did in Philadelphia this weekend borders on unserious. Getting a speed threat who hits better than Castro would be nice. Getting a first baseman who can show a little fight behind in the count would help, as well (sorry Joey). And one more reliever who isn’t composed mostly of home run induced scar tissue would be lovely (I still appreciate you, EP).

Also available are old friends Gilberto Celestino, Trevor Larnach, and Randy Dobnak, as well as Triple-A stalwarts Jair Camargo and Anthony Prato. All represent quite an improvement on the options the team had last year, when we were mulling the addition of Michael Helman (currently injured), and no one else.

What do you think? Should the team continue to trust its veteran depth pieces or shock the system with some of its young talent stockpile? Sound off in the comments!

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[jorgenswest]

As for the hitters I think the run scoring environment in St. Paul gives us a distorted perception of their performance. Chris Williams has a wRC+ of 120. That isn’t special and rather ordinary for a 1B.

You mentioned Bryson Stott. His wRC+ was 152 when called up. His OPS at other levels/seasons were 146, 169, 130 and 137. That is a pretty sustained high level relative to league. Jeremy Peña is similar but not quite as strong at 138, 146 and 126 (actually higher when combined with partial same season of 152).

The Twins have two players that approach those sustained numbers in Julien and Wallner. They are up already. I don’t see anyone else approaching the readiness of Bryson Stott or Jeremy Peña with sustained performance.

[Althebum82]

Excellent piece, very comprehensive and a joy to read.

I had really hoped that Ortega would earn his keep.  His limited career MLB appearances, though, have all added up to be too home run prone for whatever reason.

In a different TD article it was mentioned that Keuchel would no longer be part of the rotation.  I have not seen that reported anywhere else, but I will confess that my reading exposure is limited to a few sources online.  If this is true, then surely there is a roster move of some kind approaching shortly that may create an opportunity sooner rather than later.

No doubt Gallo has earned his position as the current TD reader whipping boy.  But I just can't see this team moving on from the known to the unknown much at this point of the season.

Any adds to the roster at this point will most likely be limited to those with existing MLB experience, and most likely be injury-connected in some way.

[Hans Birkeland]

34 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

As for the hitters I think the run scoring environment in St. Paul gives us a distorted perception of their performance. Chris Williams has a wRC+ of 120. That isn’t special and rather ordinary for a 1B.

You mentioned Bryson Stott. His wRC+ was 152 when called up. His OPS at other levels/seasons were 146, 169, 130 and 137. That is a pretty sustained high level relative to league. Jeremy Peña is similar but not quite as strong at 138, 146 and 126 (actually higher when combined with partial same season of 152).

The Twins have two players that approach those sustained numbers in Julien and Wallner. They are up already. I don’t see anyone else approaching the readiness of Bryson Stott or Jeremy Peña with sustained performance.

You never know how minor league numbers will translate. Certainly Pena and Stott were much bigger prospects than Williams, and their success hasn't been entirely linear since their arrival. It's probably a stretch to think Williams will contribute much, but in a small sample a streaky power bat like his could ambush pitchers more than say, Gallo, who has very little chance if a pitcher just executes their game plan against him.

[jorgenswest]

1 minute ago, Althebum82 said:

In a different TD article it was mentioned that Keuchel would no longer be part of the rotation.

They are skipping the Friday start. Lopez and Gray can each start with an extra day of rest so that fifth starter is not needed. Keuchel is listed for Sunday. Ober could start that day on his normal rest but he may need the extra day more than the others. Varland pitched yesterday so he isn’t an option. A bullpen day is an option for Sunday if they get good starts out of Lopez and Gray. The last Keuchel start turned out to be a bullpen day with a big deficit. They need good starts from Gray and Lopez resting then pen and a really quick hook for Keuchel.

 

[jorgenswest]

Just now, Hans Birkeland said:

You never know how minor league numbers will translate. Certainly Pena and Stott were much bigger prospects than Williams, and their success hasn't been entirely linear since their arrival. It's probably a stretch to think Williams will contribute much, but in a small sample a streaky power bat like his could ambush pitchers more than say, Gallo, who has very little chance if a pitcher just executes their game plan against him.

Gallo already has a streaky power bat with much better defense. I don’t think that would be a wise switch. Kirilloff will be back.

 

[Mike Sixel]

4 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

Gallo already has a streaky power bat with much better defense. I don’t think that would be a wise switch. Kirilloff will be back.

 

How long will we suffer with 42% strikeouts until AK is back? How do we KNOW Williams or Severino are worse than Gallo? 

This fear of losing out on Gallo somehow being better than the options is really odd to me. He's one of the worst hitters in all of baseball since May......Fear of moving on is not what I'd like from this FO.

[Maybebaby]

Just no more Kuechel, time to cut ties with Joey!

 

[TwinsDr2021]

40 minutes ago, Hans Birkeland said:

You never know how minor league numbers will translate. Certainly Pena and Stott were much bigger prospects than Williams, and their success hasn't been entirely linear since their arrival. It's probably a stretch to think Williams will contribute much, but in a small sample a streaky power bat like his could ambush pitchers more than say, Gallo, who has very little chance if a pitcher just executes their game plan against him.

The only minor player the twins have that compares to Pena and Stott is Brooks Lee. To compare any other Twins minor player to them is a huge disservice to them. Pena was one of the main reasons Houston felt comfortable letting Correa go (and the money of course), and Stott was top 100 middle infielder prospect. NEITHER of them were a soon to be 27 year old 1B/DH.

I get it we all want Gallo gone and have for months but this FO doesn't and it seems highly unlikely they are going to do it for a non 40 man roster player.

If you want to compare somebody to Pena and Stott, its Julien and he is up doing exactly what they did (minus some defense)

I get it some really old minor league players are doing great in St. Paul (there are a few younger ones) and we want the Twins do to be better and think they guys would/could/might help, but there is a reason they are in the minors.

[TwinsDr2021]

38 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

How long will we suffer with 42% strikeouts until AK is back? How do we KNOW Williams or Severino are worse than Gallo? 

This fear of losing out on Gallo somehow being better than the options is really odd to me. He's one of the worst hitters in all of baseball since May......Fear of moving on is not what I'd like from this FO.

I am pretty sure that is the consensus with every person in MN except the ones that matter. IMO there is close to a zero percent chance they cut Gallo and his salary and call up a non prospects. (That is a no win situation for them, the player is terrible they look bad, the player is good, they look bad for signing and playing Gallo)

[LA Vikes Fan]

The one guy on your list that I think is intriguing is Austin Martin. The rest are either new to AAA and haven't dominated it yet (Lee, Keirsey, and Severino), a high strikeout guy with limited defense in WIlliams, a high walk reliever in Funderburk,  and Stevenson who is an older player who didn't do well in previous MLB experience. Arguably, Steveston is is a speedier version of Jake Cave who is on the Phillies roster and Funderburk may get a shot because we are desperate for bullpen help. Can't see Williams as an upgrade over Solano who he would replace. Still, none of the others really move the needle for me. 

Why Martin? He's been hot in August and a RH OF with speed would add something to the current team that it doesn't have. The choice would be him or Luplow, who hasn't been pretty good since we got him and has a longer track record. Luplow is controllable through 2024 and has an option left so I could see giving that spot to Martin and hoping to catch lightning in a bottle going forward. If Martin flops in a few game trial, back to Luplow. 

 

[MABB1959]

I want to see Austin Martin and what he can do at the MLB level.  He was projected to come up this year.

[Mike Sixel]

3 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

The one guy on your list that I think is intriguing is Austin Martin. The rest are either new to AAA and haven't dominated it yet (Lee, Keirsey, and Severino), a high strikeout guy with limited defense in WIlliams, a high walk reliever in Funderburk,  and Stevenson who is an older player who didn't do well in previous MLB experience. Arguably, Steveston is is a speedier version of Jake Cave who is on the Phillies roster and Funderburk may get a shot because we are desperate for bullpen help. Can't see Williams as an upgrade over Solano who he would replace. Still, none of the others really move the needle for me. 

Why Martin? He's been hot in August and a RH OF with speed would add something to the current team that it doesn't have. The choice would be him or Luplow, who hasn't been pretty good since we got him and has a longer track record. Luplow is controllable through 2024 and has an option left so I could see giving that spot to Martin and hoping to catch lightning in a bottle going forward. If Martin flops in a few game trial, back to Luplow. 

 

I'd have martin up and starting in CF right now.....and see if it works or not for the playoffs. They aren't built to win the playoffs, most likely, so take some chances.

[mikelink45]

Try the reliever - if Kuechel is the guy we just saw and they are skipping his starts its time to fill the roster with players we can use.  In the article we should try Jeffers at first I would only be for this if Carmargo is up - otherwise put WIlliams at 1B.  I am still not sold on Martin and if we want to give Stevenson another shot it would not hurt. I do like Prato too. 

[Trov]

I doubt Lee will get a call, unless he is just lighting up the next couple of weeks.  The reason, is he still has 2 more years before he NEEDS to be added to 40 man.  Meaning unless he is going to make team out of spring next year, and he very well may, they can wait to add him to 40 man and save spots for guys that could be rule 5 eligible.  Martin and Severino will both have to be added next year I believe, so less of issue adding them now. Chris Williams also would need to be added, but I am not sure team is sold on him as a future guy, I could be wrong.  Stevenson I see no point on bringing him up.  Kirsey would need to be added to 40 man or risk losing in rule 5, but I doubt they are too worried about losing a 26 year old guy that has not made MLB debut yet.  Could he help sure, but he still ranks below many others on roster.  

I do agree adding a guy for playoff run can be helpful even if just to steal some bases, that is why I would push for Martin when looking at everything else. 

[DJL44]

I don't want Martin sitting on the bench to end the season and I don't see a place for him to start. If I'm just looking for bench speed I'd grab Stevenson.

Funderburk is the one guy where there are no development tradeoffs if they bring him up. He's going to get the same number of innings in MLB as in AAA.

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, DJL44 said:

I don't want Martin sitting on the bench to end the season and I don't see a place for him to start. If I'm just looking for bench speed I'd grab Stevenson.

Funderburk is the one guy where there are no development tradeoffs if they bring him up. He's going to get the same number of innings in MLB as in AAA.

Center field. Easy.

[USAFChief]

"(Martin) also doesn’t have power, and frankly, that may only help the Twins"

 

Um, what? Lack of power isnt an asset in any context. 

It's a deficiency. Not necessarily a fatal deficiency, to be sure, but a deficiency nonetheless. 

If he were able to play a good CF and maintain a .380 OBP,  with some genuine speed, he could overcome that lack of power and be a useful player. I'd take that over MAT.

But it's really, really doubtful Martin could do that in MLB. Almost impossible with a sub .300 BA.

[PDX Twin]

3 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

They are skipping the Friday start. Lopez and Gray can each start with an extra day of rest so that fifth starter is not needed. Keuchel is listed for Sunday. Ober could start that day on his normal rest but he may need the extra day more than the others. Varland pitched yesterday so he isn’t an option. A bullpen day is an option for Sunday if they get good starts out of Lopez and Gray. The last Keuchel start turned out to be a bullpen day with a big deficit. They need good starts from Gray and Lopez resting then pen and a really quick hook for Keuchel.

 

How long a year is! I haven't thought about "bullpen games" since last year at this time!

[Road trip]

2 hours ago, DJL44 said:

 

Funderburk is the one guy where there are no development tradeoffs if they bring him up. He's going to get the same number of innings in MLB as in AAA.

Yes on Funderburk.  Now.  The pen could use another lefty (or for that matter, any reliable arm).  Easy to find room for him, and he sports an excellent SO9 of 13.5!

 

[Hans Birkeland]

1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

"(Martin) also doesn’t have power, and frankly, that may only help the Twins"

 

Um, what? Lack of power isnt an asset in any context. 

It's a deficiency. Not necessarily a fatal deficiency, to be sure, but a deficiency nonetheless. 

If he were able to play a good CF and maintain a .380 OBP,  with some genuine speed, he could overcome that lack of power and be a useful player. I'd take that over MAT.

But it's really, really doubtful Martin could do that in MLB. Almost impossible with a sub .300 BA.

You're unlikely to build an inning if it starts with the top 6-7 guys just taking huge hacks and hoping to get a mistake. That's where guys like Martin can help. It just has to be in context- if you have a team full of guys like that you end up as the Guardians.

But you are right, there's a reason there aren't a lot of .380 OBP guys without power in the league. Long-term, Martin will likely have to develop 10-15 HR power to truly stick around as an impact player.

[RpR]

"That's One Fine Looking Saints Team.. Why Don't the Twins Look Like That?"

If the Twins played in the same league as the Saints, they would probably put the Saints to shame.

[TNtwins85]

9 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

How long will we suffer with 42% strikeouts until AK is back? How do we KNOW Williams or Severino are worse than Gallo? 

This fear of losing out on Gallo somehow being better than the options is really odd to me. He's one of the worst hitters in all of baseball since May......Fear of moving on is not what I'd like from this FO.

Agreed! I fear that the extra 2 roster spots in September will keep him around the rest of the season. I just hope it’s on the bench 9 out of every 10 games and the occasional defensive replacement or pinch hit. Would love to see Funderbirk and Martin but it probably won’t be.

[DocBauer]

I want to believe that the Martin that finished strong in 2022, that had a great AFL, and is tearing things up pretty well for St Paul is for real. Whether he becomes a regular in one primary spot, or a super utility 3 or 4 or even 5 position player who plays a good 5 games a week I don't  care. But the first pair of poor seasons, the injuries, and just starting to look like the player we hoped he'd be, I just don't see where he's an improvement NOW as a rookie with such little, healthy 2023 time put in. I think his time comes in 2024.

While it probably won't happen, I would have dumped Gallo weeks ago and given Williams a shot at 1B, and still would. I really like Gallo's defense at 1B, but unless Williams is just BAD there, he'd provide a power bat, another DH option, and a 3rd catcher, (instead of Farmer), if they want to play both Vazquez and Jeffers against LH starters. He would almost have to TRY to hit worse than Gallo's. 160-ish AVG and 50% K rate since June. 

I'd make room for Funderburk ASAP. I LOVE the potential of Moran if he can just get his BB to a mediocre level. Just too much good stuff there. And I've seen enough of Headrick to believe he might have a future as a solid LH pen arm as well. But Thielbar needs some help. IMO, it's time to give Funderburk a shot as a 6th-7th inning LH option. 

The guy I feel kinda sad for is Stevenson. He's never been good at the ML level, but he's never been atrocious either. And I know and fully recognize at 29yo he's nothing close to a prospect! Even still, he's a mature player with ML experience having an outstanding AAA season doing EVERYTHING well. If room could be found, he might just provide a spark with a decent bat, some pop, and speed to assist Taylor in CF. While I'd welcome him back for AAA depth in 2024, I keep thinking "right place at right time" might allow him to help for a 2023 push.

Keirsey is a younger, probably better version of Stevenson. But he was promoted to AAA just a few weeks ago and is just getting his legs under him at that level. Same with Severino, a no to both. It's just not their time yet.

And no to Lee. The kid just keeps shining and getting better and better all the time. But no matter how talented he is, no matter how good he might be, a year ago at this time, he was a professional rookie at A+ just getting ready to head to AA to help with their playoff run. But now he's some sort of rookie "savant" who's ready to help a playoff push? No. And as mentioned, he doesn't even have to be added to the 40 man any time soon. And that's a good thing when it comes to figuring out the 40 man this offseason. No need to push someone not ready to take a spot he's not ready for YET. Besides, he doesn't even figure in to the "lineup" issues as the INF isn't really the problem. 1B might be an issue unless AK comes back soon. One more, or different, bat in the OF might be an issue, and trying to maintain the pen from here on out is an issue. 

Keuchel is probably going to end up with at least one more start as a "let's see if he can grind out ONE MORE START", along with the open dates, to assist with nursing  the rotation a bit to keep up strength, and hope for the best. 

Varland, talent, future productivity, what he's shown so far, and recently getting back ontrack, is far better than Keuchel. Dallas was kept/promoted with hopes of eking out a few capable starts to help the rotation get rest and limit IP. Varland will be up at some point soon. And come playoff time, he will shift to the pen. One other SP will do the same as you need 4, not 5. HOPEFULLY, Moran or Headrick or Funderburk will settle in over the next couple of weeks to offer up a LH BP option to help Thielbar. And then we have to figure out Winder, Sands, Balazovic, etc, for at least one more arm.

Anyone has to be on the roster before September 1st...unless I've missed a change...to be eligible for the playoffs. Of course, as always, there are injury returns and replacement options each round. 

Even still, that's a couple of weeks to get the final spots figured out. And the Twins DO HAVE a veteran position player they CAN just DFA to make room. And they still might have a couple 60 day options available.

But as much as I enjoy the speculation of the OP, there's only a couple of guys who ACTUALLY MAKE SOME SENSE as to being LATE additions who make any sense. And they are Williams as a RH power bat, Stevenson as a veteran LH bat with pop and speed, and Funderburk as a LH bullpen option.

Other than that, every other notion of guys listed here with 30-50 days at AAA is hyperbolic hopefulness vs future potential in 2024 and beyond that are really non factors for now.

[jrod23]

When we finally let go of Sano.  We picked up Gallo.  We all second guessed (angrily), and we all could've forecasted (emphatically).  For the majority of the season, we've had both Gallo and Buxton hacking away.  It's embarrassing.  You go down the list of batting stats in the MLB and we're sitting about 18-24 for everything.  That's horrible for a "playoff team".  We're riding out our "taking advantage of mistakes" method because why?  Coaches pride?  Our division being abysmal?  Then what?  Playoffs and the same method?  Playoff teams don't make those mistakes.  Rocco is d*mn lucky our division sucks and is the worst in baseball.  He's continually produced a less and less productive team since he won COY.  

I hate saying it, and I REALLY DO, but we have to keep going with what we have because you can't F with a "playoff roster" in the heat of the push.  Maybe add Martin because a speedy on-base guy, IMO, is truly still valuable, and his defense is versatile.  Otherwise, Stephenson because of his output and drive.  He'd be the equivalent to Ryan LaMarre making the opening roster.  But now it's a September call-up.

It's dumb, we're in the playoff hunt and so bad at the plate.  Thank God for our pitching.

 

[Mike Sixel]

If y'all were the GM in Arizona, Corbin Carroll would still be in the minors....

[TwinsDr2021]

7 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

If y'all were the GM in Arizona, Corbin Carroll would still be in the minors....

This is 100% true, Zach Neto isn't doing to bad in LA, was drafted in the same draft as Lee and 5 picks after. Yet the Twins guy needs more time time.

The rest of the league is calling up guys 21, 22, 23 years old and the Twins can't call up guys 24 or older because they just aren't ready or need more time?

 

[Trov]

1 hour ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

This is 100% true, Zach Neto isn't doing to bad in LA, was drafted in the same draft as Lee and 5 picks after. Yet the Twins guy needs more time time.

The rest of the league is calling up guys 21, 22, 23 years old and the Twins can't call up guys 24 or older because they just aren't ready or need more time?

 

To compare Neto to Lee situation is not a fare way to compare.  This FO is more than willing to bring up guys under 24, if the player shows they can be better than what we got, or injuries force the hand.  AK started a playoff game at age 22, then started regular season age 23.  Royce Lewis called up at 23, and if he did not miss the full season prior, most likely would have been called up at age 22.  Jose Miranda called up at 23, turned 24 later that season.  Gilberto Celestino, due to need, was called up at 22.  Simeon Wood Richardson got his first start last September at age 21, and many thought he would contribute this year, then regressed and one terrible start this year at MLB level and bad start to season in AAA.  He is doing better now, but to say the FO never calls up guys until 24 or older just is not supported by data.  

Outside of Neto and Lee, everyone else from last year draft are below AAA.  Neto is not lighting world on fire in Majors, but he is best LA has at SS right now.  He is playing well for a 22 year old, just a few days older than Lee, but Angels really have no other choices, but the Twins have other choices to play infield above Lee.  We have CC, Lewis, Julien, Polanco all as guys that can play.  I would bet if Lee showed he was by far the best player to play out of them, they would give him a chance.  

Each team has their own situation, and sometimes a player gets pushed faster because the team has no other options.  Sometimes injuries force hands one way or another. 

[DJL44]

2 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

This is 100% true, Zach Neto isn't doing to bad in LA, was drafted in the same draft as Lee and 5 picks after. Yet the Twins guy needs more time time.

The "Twins guy" has a .642 OPS in AAA. Lee is AHEAD of almost every other player in the draft. You can't act like the Twins are moving him too slowly.

[TwinsDr2021]

33 minutes ago, Trov said:

To compare Neto to Lee situation is not a fare way to compare.  This FO is more than willing to bring up guys under 24, if the player shows they can be better than what we got, or injuries force the hand.  AK started a playoff game at age 22, then started regular season age 23.  Royce Lewis called up at 23, and if he did not miss the full season prior, most likely would have been called up at age 22.  Jose Miranda called up at 23, turned 24 later that season.  Gilberto Celestino, due to need, was called up at 22.  Simeon Wood Richardson got his first start last September at age 21, and many thought he would contribute this year, then regressed and one terrible start this year at MLB level and bad start to season in AAA.  He is doing better now, but to say the FO never calls up guys until 24 or older just is not supported by data.  

Outside of Neto and Lee, everyone else from last year draft are below AAA.  Neto is not lighting world on fire in Majors, but he is best LA has at SS right now.  He is playing well for a 22 year old, just a few days older than Lee, but Angels really have no other choices, but the Twins have other choices to play infield above Lee.  We have CC, Lewis, Julien, Polanco all as guys that can play.  I would bet if Lee showed he was by far the best player to play out of them, they would give him a chance.  

Each team has their own situation, and sometimes a player gets pushed faster because the team has no other options.  Sometimes injuries force hands one way or another. 

Was commenting on Mike's post about Carroll, and used Neto as another example of somebody that the Twins fans would say needs more time in the minors, and was trying to say he was drafted last year as well. It was a NOT a comment on how Lee should be in the majors now.

Yes Miranda and Julien were called up at age 23, one and two months before turning 24. Yes Lewis called up 1 month prior to turning 23, And you are correct on AK. Weren't Celestino and SWR called up because they were on the 40 man?

It is my opinion that this FO is either horrible at developing position players or some other reason that players aren't called up sooner. (Miranda, Julien, Wallner, Varland are a few examples of players I felt should have been moved up quicker)  Plus more this year.