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Knock-Getters and Boppers: The Eternal Struggle


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Swinging hard in baseball was invented by Mel Gibson in 2001 for the movie “Signs.” From that point forward, hitters kept swinging harder while in many cases adding steroids to the mix, resulting in more power across the league. Guys who were teetering on the brink of being labeled “Quad-A Guys,” suddenly realized if they could add 20 home run power to their repertoire, they could cover up all their other glaring flaws. In 2019, a juiced ball turbocharged this trend and not coincidentally that year’s Twins team set the all-time team home run record, featuring big contributions from previously unexciting players like CJ Cron, Max Kepler, Jonathan Schoop and Mitch Garver. After a 101 win season and the surprising addition of Josh Donaldson, the future seemed bright for the Twins lineup. Instead, the team has taken steps backward and now looks as dysfunctional as ever offensively, despite the track record of their hitters being quite good on paper. What happened?

To start, the Twins aren’t the only team with a lot of names in their lineup and not a lot of runs on the board. Many teams who employ a multitude of high power hitters with great backsides to their baseball cards, are finding that their performance is suffering. The Yankees have a decent record, but the vibe around them is not positive, with their hitting underwhelming despite employing many successful sluggers like Aaron Judge, Anthony Rizzo, Giancarlo Stanton and Gleyber Torres. The Padres are at the bottom of the league in offense despite boasting four potential MVP candidates in their lineup, most of whom can do more than just slug. The Mets are struggling mightily despite Pete Alonso pacing the sport in homers, Francisco Lindor hitting the ball as hard as ever, and Francisco Alvarez breaking through offensively.

The issue is how hard the guys are swinging. And no I’m not saying that swinging a bat is putting undue strain on these precious hitters. I’m saying you need a mix of efforts in terms of swing speed/length of swing, and the Twins have too many guys selling out for power, especially in key situations that require a base hit. I’ve categorized it that there are three types of hitters based on how hard they swing:

Knock-getters: Think Luis Arraez, Rod Carew, and maybe Royce Lewis (more on that later). They’ll take a few rips to keep pitchers honest but really they're just trying to get a hit somehow.

Slashers: Think Yuli Gurriel or Paul O’Neil. They’ll run into plenty of homers, but mainly they are just trying to get the barrel on the ball. My theory is that medium swingers go into the biggest slumps, perhaps due to oscillations in what “medium swinging” means for a hitter, but can often spark a team in the postseason.

Boppers: Think Joey Gallo or Jim Thome. They want to lift at all times, and swing as hard as they reasonably can. The most rigid approach, and most dependent on mistakes. It also includes most of the current Twins lineup.

It may seem like I am denigrating the power guys like any old baseball analyst from the 1930’s, but what I’m really saying is you can’t have too many of the same type of hitter on your team. As the Padres have shown, you can have four .900 OPS guys in your lineup and still struggle to score. If all you have is knock-getters you end up like the Cleveland Guardians, which isn’t very effective, either. It would seem that a team made up of slashers, or medium swingers, would be great, but I swear they’re streakier, and not always the best defenders.

But a team full of boppers has all the makings of a heartbreaking team. They are scary to face as a pitcher, but importantly, they can be pitched to. For instance, any pitcher knows the game plan on how to get Joey Gallo out: high fastballs and breaking balls below the zone. If you execute that plan Gallo almost certainly will not hurt you; at worst you’ll walk him. A knock-getter, by contrast, can take a pitch you executed well and plop it the other way for a single. Not always, but at a far higher success rate than Gallo just accepting his fate with two strikes. Logically, a shorter, easier swing is easier to control, less deceived by velocity, and easier to pull back on if the pitch is a ball. I don’t think you’ll find a hitter who disagrees with that.

And admit it, when Joey Gallo or Byron Buxton come to the plate with a man on second and two outs down a run, it burns you up because you know you would rather have Christian Vazquez hit in that situation, despite his poor overall numbers.

It’s like a really physical basketball team with an elite big man. You can counter that team by putting a bunch of quick shooters all around the perimeter and forcing the big to come out and defend, negating his overall impact. He’s still really good, yet his existence is hurting the team.

Or it's like a golfer who hits it further than anyone else but is playing a course with tiny fairways and deep rough. He has less margin for error than shorter hitters and his advantage is turned into a weakness.

Or a male pickup artist looking to meet women at a lesbian bar.

From a baseball strategy standpoint too, having a bunch of slower/shorter-swinging guys can make the opposing pitcher less of a factor. And if you’re facing Gerrit Cole or Shohei Ohtani with your season on the line, you want them to matter as little as possible. Elite pitchers, the kind you often see in the postseason, probably won’t make many mistakes during a game. The beautiful part is, if you’re a good knock-getter, you don’t need them to make any mistakes. You’ve accepted you can’t get a homer without several stars aligning, so you try to guess a location and punch the ball through somewhere. You can’t win the war with one swing, but you can pile up wins in individual battles and accomplish the same thing. That is still hard to do, but not as hard as trying to homer off of an elite pitcher who isn’t making mistakes.

After Sunday’s game, Royce Lewis was interviewed and he mentioned that the Tigers approach to Twins’ hitters was to exploit that they were waiting for a mistake. He also said he personally went against that approach by selling out for contact during the game, during which he collected three singles. That was eye-opening because it confirmed what a lot of us fans have witnessed during the Falvey/Baldelli era: Swinging for the fences regardless of situation and hoping for a mistake pitch, resulting in failing to score in too many innings, and falling short offensively even if the total season output was highly ranked.

On that note, the Firejoemorgan.com site of the early aughts was a favorite of mine, and one of Morgan’s most mocked beliefs was that sometimes home run hitters could be selfish. “What a load,” we said, “as if hitting a home run was something to be shamed for when it is statistically the best thing you can do as a hitter.”

Except most of the time guys try to hit home runs, they don’t. The best home run hitters get a dinger every ten to twelve at-bats, a hugely valuable ratio, no doubt. But it’s easier to make contact if you’re just trying to get a knock, and if that’s what the situation dictates, then yes, trying to hit a home run is selfish, because of the home runs you don’t hit.

If you know that a given pitcher is going to start you with a breaking ball outside, and you have the ability to poke a ball the other way, it is your job to ambush that pitcher and get a knock. Good pitchers give up home runs, but good pitches don’t (unless the hitter guesses perfectly), and that’s an important distinction. Sometimes you don’t get the cement mixer breaking ball of your dreams, and already this year, we have seen the reverse approach work against the best of the Twins’ excellent rotation: Sonny Gray, Joe Ryan, Pablo Lopez and Bailey Ober have all been victimized by bloop hits and squibbers the other way, often off of good pitches, and those hits have led to key losses against division rivals Cleveland and Detroit, not to mention the Angels, Red Sox, and Rays.

Getting rid of Luis Arraez is then so much more of a blunder by the Twins. He wasn’t just a knock-getter, he was the knock-getter, and the Twins haven’t really had anybody else in recent years who could grind at-bats and was willing to sacrifice almost all his potential power for base hits like Arraez. Lewis has shown this ability at times, notably against Ryan Pressly of the Astros the day he was called up, also mentioning after Sunday’s win that he was trying to channel his “inner-Arraez.”

Which brings me to Austin Martin. He recently returned to action after missing three weeks following a collision in one of his first games back from a sprained UCL in his elbow. That's a real shame because Martin is an up and coming knock-getter, and to hear him tell it, his failed experiment with adding power to his profile in 2022 just made him more committed to selling out for base hits and getting on base no matter what. Putting him in left field, if he’s healthy enough to play, might be the best recreation of Arraez the Twins can do at this point. And they’ll need him if what Lewis says about the hitting approach is true.

If the team is truly gameplanning, or being gameplanned against, by virtue of its hitters trying to stay in at-bats until the pitcher makes a mistake, that’s a problem. It also matches the eye-test of watching this team. Sometimes pitchers don’t make mistakes, and sometimes when they do, you miss them (we’ve seen plenty of that). Whoever is advocating for that approach is stuck in 2019 and though Lewis surely didn’t mean to stir the pot with his comment, his saying it gives me hope that he may inspire others on the team to follow his lead and sell out for contact when appropriate. The vanishing act this offense has shown since the 2019 postseason is no longer a coincidence, it's a trait, and their league-high strikeout rate confirms it. Furthermore, against better pitching overall, with less power and a less juicy ball, that trait is dooming this team to fail despite an incredible (for the Twins) pitching staff. Gallo and Buxton will continue to swing away no matter what, but everyone else needs to realize what’s been right in front of them (by watching their opposition), and to give up a little power for contact. Not always, just when it matters.

 

 

Edited by Hans Birkeland

20 Comments


Recommended Comments

Karbo

Posted

Very well put! As hard as the pitchers are throwing these days just meeting the ball and squaring it up is going to give a batter chance of something good happening. How much good does the strikeout do?

Blyleven2011

Posted

On 6/30/2023 at 7:17 AM, Karbo said:

Very well put! As hard as the pitchers are throwing these days just meeting the ball and squaring it up is going to give a batter chance of something good happening. How much good does the strikeout do?

Strikeouts creates a breeze  , 

We are stuck in the 2019 season most definitely  ..

Put that in the Groundhog day  movie ...

gman

Posted

Some say that it takes 3 singles to score a run and that's why singles aren't any good. I've never learned how many strikeouts it takes to score a run. The Twins are 8th in the majors in homeruns, but 21st in hits and 21st in runs scored. They do lead in strikeouts.

Interesting but everyone in the central has scored fewer runs than the Twins.

Fatbat

Posted

If I were a GM. I would find 2 or 3 Arraez type knockers to play every day. 7 sluggers and issues at 8/9 in the line up is a terrible daily line up. 

Doctor Gast

Posted

Great job Hans! I agree with you & most of the responses. Twins hitting phylosophy is something that I've been advocating against since '21, Stressing moonshots which is evident in the stat of winning a few blow out games & losing a ton of close ones. Hitting HRs when we don't need them & striking out when we need a hit. This philosophy needs to change. Even boppers needs to change their approach with 2 strikes (Sano is a victim of this philosophy). 

One thing I don't understand is your statement about slashers & knockers are streaky. IMO slashers & knockers are a lot less streaky than boppers.

Hans Birkeland

Posted

4 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

One thing I don't understand is your statement about slashers & knockers are streaky. IMO slashers & knockers are a lot less streaky than boppers.

I meant just the slashers are streaky.. I don't have a lot of evidence, and certainly plenty of boppers are streaky as well. But guys like Gurriel, Adam Frazier, Eddie Rosario, Delmon Young, Alex Bregman, Joey Votto seem to run so hot and so cold. I may be totally off base!

Doctor Gast

Posted

37 minutes ago, Hans Birkeland said:

I meant just the slashers are streaky.. I don't have a lot of evidence, and certainly plenty of boppers are streaky as well. But guys like Gurriel, Adam Frazier, Eddie Rosario, Delmon Young, Alex Bregman, Joey Votto seem to run so hot and so cold. I may be totally off base!

I'm familar with Eddie but not so much the others. But I think in Rosario case he's aggressive at the plate & swings at everything & often was a sucker for outside breaking ball.s But "slashers" that are more fussy with balls outside the zone are IMO less streaky. maybe it depends on how exactly  we define "slasher"

RogerCarew

Posted

Very good      article!! Well     reasoned and written

OvertheHill

Posted

This was very well written and echoes what a lot here have been observing since 2019. It is very much an organizational issue; hopefully they're turning this thing around. With this kind of pitching, even a little improvement in approaches to plate appearances will have a pretty dramatic effect over the rest of this season.

Doctor Wu

Posted

On 7/6/2023 at 12:31 AM, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

Nice summary Hans.  I agree with this 100% and believe that what Royce said is resonating in the clubhouse with both the players and coaches.  Funny how a prospect can come in and immediately make an impact on a team's approach.

I've noticed that Correa for instance, is shortening his swing with 2 strikes and hitting to the opposite field with success since the meeting after the Atlanta debacle.  I believe overall our batting average with 2 strikes has increased also during this time period.

I am liking what I am seeing but not yet completely sold.  We definitely need all three types of hitters that you describe.  Teams that fall into only one or two categories of players will struggle.

This is only from my daily box score watching, but in the past week or so, ever since that players-only meeting, it seems like Correa and Buxton are increasing their number of walks. Whatever it takes to cut down on those strikeouts!

Eris

Posted

I think of Daniel Murphy as the poster child of the swing for the fences movement.  Daniel Murphy was a weak hitting contact hitter with an ISO of around 120,  a BA close to 0.300 and a K% of around 15%.  He made himself relevant for a few years by increasing his HR from the mid teens to the mid 20s.  But pitchers figured out that high fastballs could the upper cut swing for the fence approach and Daniel Murphy’s stardom fell as fast as it had risen.  
 

The Twins problem extends beyond remembering Daniel Murphy’s skill set in that they are teaching this approach to players who have BA well below 0.300 and with high K%.

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/daniel-murphy/4316/stats?position=1B/2B

Aerodeliria

Posted

I agree with every word you have said, but I have very strong doubts that the words from Lewis have made any significant impact on the players or the philosophy--especially when listening to Rocco's post-game interviews. I'll believe it when I see it as a consistent approach as well as who gets penciled (or is it scanned now?) in on the lineup card.

Galen

Posted

What about moving runners up?  How many times have we had runners on first and second, nobody out, and we get 2 strikeouts.   Those situations have been killing us.

Shobae

Posted

A few things that looked wrong to me. First Alonso isn't leading the league in homers, that would be Ohtani, or the NL, that would be Olson. As for the Yankees you mentioned, Judge was absolutely raking when healthy but has missed tons of time, Stanton has been nearly unplayable this season, and rizzo and torres have be around average. The Padres don't have 4 MVP candidates or .900 ops hitters, they have 2 MVP hopefuls and only one .900 ops hitter (who you'd expect). Big names aren't really worth much on the field if they aren't healthy/producing. So other than the 2 factual errors this seems misplaced, when you actually look at the performance on the field. 

Also don't think the twins problem is that they don't have knockers, it's that they suck at executing their hitting philosophy. People talk about the strikeouts but a simple way to look at it would be for a hitter to be productive you'd have an inverse relationship between K% and SLG. The twins are running a historic strike out rate so we'd want an at least top 3 slugging percentage to go along with that, instead they are 20th in MLB, so bad results will follow.

The other thing that wasn't mentioned here was the fact that knockers are highly susceptible to batted ball randomness and defense. If you're putting a bunch of balls in play and they don't go your way for a while then you're gonna be big time slumping. If you get into a pitch it's gone much more consistently than a ground ball goes for a single. To be clear I'm not saying hitters don't have control over their babip, but than it is extremely variable to factors they can't control. 

The question of how many of the same type of hitters you can have on your team really depends on their production more than their style. I think you can make arguments about how style causes certain production, but if you look at the best (most runs produced) hitters around the league the common theme is slugging or a very high on base percentage. And since the latter usually follows the former that has become the dominant approach. That doesn't mean that has to be the only style, but it leads to the most success for the most players. Twins problem is that they just don't produce runs and strike out too much. If they tried not to strike out as much I don't think that would really change their run production just the shape of it.

I honestly don't know how you'd fix this problem as if you trade in what what little power you have left for some average, you'll just be producing a shittier guardians team with a little more pop. I guess you'd either have to get significantly better at getting on base or actually hit for useful power, but not sure what the method to get those results looks like.


 

Shobae

Posted

Slightly unrelated by since he was mentioned in this piece. Arreaz is an outlier, it's absolutely mind blowing to me how seemingly very few people contextualize what he is doing. The fact he is running a 5.2% strike out rate against the 2023 pitching staffs seems like it should not be possible. I don't know if it's ignorance or what but Arraez being able to make his approach work against this kind of pitching is just amazing, forget all this "throw back hitter" talk. Arraez is not a throw back because all of his comps were facing a starter throwing up 80s fastballs with little off speed usage. Meanwhile Arraez has a career .327 BA and 7.8 K% in the era for 93 mph being the league average FB and facing 4-6 pitchers every game with off speed pitches designed in a lab. His era adjusted batting average this year being third all time in the modern era further proves this. Telling guys to change their approach to be like Arreaz is like telling hitters to just put in some extra hours in the cage so they can hit like Mike Trout. It's nonsensical because you can count on one hand the number of major leaguers who have even close to his level of bat to ball skills.

The next question becomes "why would the twins trade a guy with some of the best contact skills ever in single season?". Seems the twins certainly didn't expect Arraez to hit like this (though I did think he hadn't reached his peak yet, don't think most did) and that they didn't value that skill as highly as many fans do. As someone who has become a defender of the trade (seemingly) this framing doesn't make it look good at all and I can't really argue with it. As much as I enjoy Pablo Lopez none of his skills compare to Arraez contact ability.

Also dunno about Martin making a good arraez replacement, at this point I'd be very happy that he even makes the majors given the performance and injuries. Also I don't think Lewis with his current hitting ability is much of a knocker with a .243 xBA, 31.7 whiff% and 32.8 sweet spot% (lg avg 33.1%). Obviously, this is a tiny sample and he could change his process, but there was way too much swing and miss in his game right now and poor launch angles for me to think it's viable currently.  

Hans Birkeland

Posted

5 hours ago, Shobae said:

A few things that looked wrong to me. First Alonso isn't leading the league in homers, that would be Ohtani, or the NL, that would be Olson. As for the Yankees you mentioned, Judge was absolutely raking when healthy but has missed tons of time, Stanton has been nearly unplayable this season, and rizzo and torres have be around average. The Padres don't have 4 MVP candidates or .900 ops hitters, they have 2 MVP hopefuls and only one .900 ops hitter (who you'd expect). Big names aren't really worth much on the field if they aren't healthy/producing. So other than the 2 factual errors this seems misplaced, when you actually look at the performance on the field. 

Also don't think the twins problem is that they don't have knockers, it's that they suck at executing their hitting philosophy. People talk about the strikeouts but a simple way to look at it would be for a hitter to be productive you'd have an inverse relationship between K% and SLG. The twins are running a historic strike out rate so we'd want an at least top 3 slugging percentage to go along with that, instead they are 20th in MLB, so bad results will follow.

The other thing that wasn't mentioned here was the fact that knockers are highly susceptible to batted ball randomness and defense. If you're putting a bunch of balls in play and they don't go your way for a while then you're gonna be big time slumping. If you get into a pitch it's gone much more consistently than a ground ball goes for a single. To be clear I'm not saying hitters don't have control over their babip, but than it is extremely variable to factors they can't control. 

The question of how many of the same type of hitters you can have on your team really depends on their production more than their style. I think you can make arguments about how style causes certain production, but if you look at the best (most runs produced) hitters around the league the common theme is slugging or a very high on base percentage. And since the latter usually follows the former that has become the dominant approach. That doesn't mean that has to be the only style, but it leads to the most success for the most players. Twins problem is that they just don't produce runs and strike out too much. If they tried not to strike out as much I don't think that would really change their run production just the shape of it.

I honestly don't know how you'd fix this problem as if you trade in what what little power you have left for some average, you'll just be producing a shittier guardians team with a little more pop. I guess you'd either have to get significantly better at getting on base or actually hit for useful power, but not sure what the method to get those results looks like.


 

If you weren't picking up that this whole piece was based on anecdotal evidence, I got nothing for you. It was also written (not published) when Alonso was leading (maybe tied for) the NL in homers. The Padres having four .900 OPS guys was an exaggeration, but certainly all four have proven to be capable of a season like that. All four typically get MVP votes in a given season, and that's the point. Their offense still sucks despite a bunch of good hitters, a pattern repeated by the Yankees, Mets Twins, and Cardinals. I find that to be significant.

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