Mariners 7, Twins 6: Sonny Gray Boils Down

[JD-TWINS]

56 minutes ago, Twins_Fan_in_NJ said:

I'm over Sonny Gray. He's good one time through the line-up and then the wheels come off. Ironic that the guy barking loudest about pitching deep into games can't manage to do so even with Rocco having a different philosophy than last season.

Rocco’s philosophy hasn’t wavered a bit. Gray pitched the same way last year & was treated accordingly……he’d be cruising and give up a hit and a walk in a one run game and Rocco would pull him in the 5th or 6th & Gray would pop off in the press.

If guys are somewhat under control Rocco is fine with them - if not - they are replaced. If he had the ‘23 staff last year they would have seen a lot more innings - no philosophy change because a competitive pitcher bitches in the press!

Sonny - quit throwing the ball into the ground!!

[John Belinski]

It just does not make any sense to bat Buxton in 3 spot!  Last night he was 0-5 with 3 strikeouts and 6 runners LOB. Twins could have won game with some help from Buxton, but something is wrong with him. I guess Rocco will never change his lineup and bat Buxton at bottom of lineup. Buxton should be on IR and let someone else be DH.

[JD-TWINS]

2 hours ago, insagt1 said:

Kepler redeemed himself slightly. His weak ground out with sacks loaded has been typical of the streaky hitter. The 3 run HR in the 9th was sort of cruel. Resulted in a 1 run loss instead of a 4 run loss. Twins were striking out with reckless abandon last night so the final out being a 'k' was predictable.

Buxton is simply having a miserable season. His AB's are weaker than ever and he just isn't making contact at all anymore. Is he hurt more than we know? Its hard to picture him this bad. He needs to sit. Twins lead trimmed to 1.5 games as Guards romped over Bucs.

Kepler - double & HR………still, Solano works a walk to load bases & Max swings at first pitch??? ……slow roller to 1B.

[MABB1959]

1 hour ago, Einheri said:

Byron, Byron, Bux, please, go on the IL and get yourself healthy.  Twins will need you hitting and not fighting a lingering injury if they reach the post season.

Sadly I don't think he is going to get healthy.  They should put him in CF and hope for the best.  I am 100% sure that is what he wants.  He wants to contribute.  If I were him I would tell Rocco he is playing CF and just go out and stand there until they forcibly move him.

[JD-TWINS]

41 minutes ago, Blyleven2011 said:

Grays one bad inning has been a trade mark of his this year , seems like the fifth or sixth inning he gives up a crooked number  ...

Buxton chewing gum during his at bat's looks like he's chewing his cud like a cow  , no adjustments in his swing , that upper cut has been his downfall  the past couple of seasons , His swings needs to level out to make contact better  ....

No comments on whether it was a winnable game or not  ....

My comment is the twins just can't seem to put together a long winning streak  ...

Sometimes it’s the 3rd inning or some other. His problem is focus and connecting that to command. He talks about losing it after every game. Jeffers blocked 8 pitches in one inning last night……completely lost on mound!!!

Great STUFF - sucks to watch!

[MABB1959]

5 minutes ago, John Belinski said:

It just does not make any sense to bat Buxton in 3 spot!  Last night he was 0-5 with 3 strikeouts and 6 runners LOB. Twins could have won game with some help from Buxton, but something is wrong with him. I guess Rocco will never change his lineup and bat Buxton at bottom of lineup. Buxton should be on IR and let someone else be DH.

First I would get him back in the field and see what happens,  This DH is not working for him or the Twins,  If he goes back on the IL so be it, but at least give it a shot,

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

I don't necessarily think Buxton's hurt. I think he's so far inside his head right now and he can't figure it out. If he's looking for Popkins for help, that's not going to do a whole lot.

[wabene]

30 minutes ago, David Maro said:

Can't watch a manager just give a game away anymore. Gray lost control of his off speed pitches in the 5th inning and Rocco does nothing.

This is a game Rocco can never win. It is ironic that now the pitcher he is not pulling early enough is the same pitcher people say wants out of the Twins because they pull him too soon. Hilarious.

The biggest reason the Twins lost:

1 Sonny Gray himself

2a Ortega (happens)

2b Buxton (happens all too often)

[Dave Borton]

2 hours ago, Peter said:

Still in first which is what matters along with winning division. Must win today.

First place is immaterial to me. What I am interested in is quality ball. We don't have that. Offense is anemic -- leadership is absent. Stats trump a sense or awareness of his players.

My fear is that the FO is going to dump a bunch of prospects at trade deadline in an effort to shore up glaring holes. It will take more than one or two trades to rectify this dysfunctional organization.

[Dave Borton]

3 hours ago, weitz41 said:

Sorry Bux I can't even take you off the bench on my fantasy team right now

Hilarious!

[Dave Borton]

1 hour ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Rocco’s choice on how to reintroduce Wallner to the big leagues: call him up, sit him for three straight games, then feed him to the wolves by having him PH cold

This comes from Baldelli's inability to view things on a macro level. He is consumed by data and loses a feel for the game, his players, and a larger picture of his role as a leader. He has not grown into his position. E-Mgr.

[Karbo]

1 hour ago, Blyleven2011 said:

Grays one bad inning has been a trade mark of his this year , seems like the fifth or sixth inning he gives up a crooked number  ...

Buxton chewing gum during his at bat's looks like he's chewing his cud like a cow  , no adjustments in his swing , that upper cut has been his downfall  the past couple of seasons , His swings needs to level out to make contact better  ....

No comments on whether it was a winnable game or not  ....

My comment is the twins just can't seem to put together a long winning streak  ...

I see so many other of our hitters making adjustments to the way the league is pithing them with so many sliders and going the other way with them. Not Buxton. He is still trying to pull everything, with absolutely no 2 strike approach. The guy should be on the IL. Out until he can play OF at least in half the games, or at the very least dopped down to the 9 hole in the lineup!

[Sparky55]

Put Buxton on the IL so when Polanco comes up we can rotate the DH spot with wallner, polanco and julien.  And do it soon, watching Buxton bat is terrible 

[JD-TWINS]

30 minutes ago, wabene said:

This is a game Rocco can never win. It is ironic that now the pitcher he is not pulling early enough is the same pitcher people say wants out of the Twins because they pull him too soon. Hilarious.

The biggest reason the Twins lost:

1 Sonny Gray himself

2a Ortega (happens)

2b Buxton (happens all too often)

……..or how about the All-Star pitcher enticing someone into a ground ball? Manager isn’t pitching…….if he brings Balazovic in after a run or two he gets blasted when Balazovic gives up a single and Gray’s runs score….”should leave starter in Rocco”……..players have to play well!

[Nashvilletwin]

Just read that the Twins are an astonishing 3-10 in Gray starts since May 1.  I wonder where Chase Petty is today….

[The_Phantom]

I know everyone has been saying it, but it's time to stop pretending like Buxton batting third at DH is the solution. He's just swinging hard and praying for a miracle. 
 
He's 15 for his last 112 with only 12 walks. And that includes a stretch where he went 5 for 9 with 3 homers and a double. When he doesn't go on an accidental hot streak, he's an absolute disaster. Hell, he's been a disaster with that mini hot streak included.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

There was a time when I thought Gray had a legitimate beef with Rocco pulling him too soon. Well so much for that. Actually the whole rotation looks like it’s coming back to earth. 

[HoskenPowell]

The front office has had enough time to build a team.  They have built a .500 team.      Why would anyone go to the park and spend $100 a head to watch this level of play?????  

[USAFChief]

41 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

There was a time when I thought Gray had a legitimate beef with Rocco pulling him too soon. Well so much for that. Actually the whole rotation looks like it’s coming back to earth.* 

As expected. 

[HokieRif]

Based on everything I’ve complained about this season I shouldn’t have anything to complain about for last night. The pitching staff had one bad inning and that made a huge difference. We scored 6 runs which should be enough to win most games at any point in the season. No complaints from me…

 

However… with Julien hitting and Buxton not, there needs to be some switching. Buck needs to sit for a couple games, Julien needs to be in at DH, and keep switching Solano and Farmer between 3B/2B, and spell an outfielder a night and insert Wallner as a replacement. 
 

if the front office needs any better advice than that I’ll settle for a $400k salary through the remainder of the season as I audition for the role in ‘24. 

[Mike Sixel]

Disappointing. The stats on teh Twins record with Gray starting is one reason some of use want to deal him......

Buxton cannot bat in the top third of the order anymore, and should be benched for a few games. Julien 100% needs to be the DH. I have no idea what to do with Buck at this point.

In any event, they scored a lot of runs, so that's good.

[Dave Borton]

5 hours ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

There was a time when I thought Gray had a legitimate beef with Rocco pulling him too soon. . .

Someone mentioned this in the game thread last night --- Gray does fine but if he begins to get runners, he is almost afraid to use his command of the strike zone and BBs the entire world. I thought it was very insightful.

Gibby-like on steroids.

[Aerodeliria]

The worst moment in the game was the bases-loaded, swing at the first pitch by Kepler, so no, the homerun only magnified the the bases-loaded failure and had little to no redemptive effect IMHO, which also agrees with MLB's Gameday, (MLB's Gameday elevated the Twins chances of winning after the homerun from 1% to a whopping 3.5%.)

 

[RpR]

19 minutes ago, Aerodeliria said:

The worst moment in the game was the bases-loaded, swing at the first pitch by Kepler, so no, the homerun only magnified the the bases-loaded failure and had little to no redemptive effect IMHO, which also agrees with MLB's Gameday, (MLB's Gameday elevated the Twins chances of winning after the homerun from 1% to a whopping 3.5%.)

 

😂Yeah, walking in a run and another on one of the wild pitches, no problem .🤣

[MMMordabito]

3 hours ago, Twins_Fan_in_NJ said:

I don't necessarily think Buxton's hurt. I think he's so far inside his head right now and he can't figure it out. If he's looking for Popkins for help, that's not going to do a whole lot.

That mental health IL is available now.  Maybe some time on the couch in squigglevision is in order.

[joefish]

8 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

Buxton is going to continue to be a story until Rocco starts putting him in the lineup in a place where he's going to do less damage. Batting third has meant that we have an automatic out before Kiriloff can get to bat.  

Gray must have been reading the twins daily debates on whether he should be treated or not. Right now he's pushing his trade value way down.

Julien needs to stay in the lineup even when polanco is back. 

Polanco to DH? A switch hitting DH seems like a perfect piece to have.

[lake_guy]

2 hours ago, HoskenPowell said:

The front office has had enough time to build a team.  They have built a .500 team.      Why would anyone go to the park and spend $100 a head to watch this level of play?????  

Exactly the question we have to hope Pohlad is asking too.  If this season goes in the ditch should be all he needs to finally make a move.  We'll see....

[wavedog]

A couple of comments - when Gray goes off the rails he sure goes off the rails - 2 big innings in last 2 starts after blowing through the order in the other innings.

I would like to See Buxton put on IL and him or the team hiring a personal trainer for him - someone like Bobby Stroupe who works with Mahomes - to try to get his body in shape so he can return to playing in CF.  That may shut him down for this year but that is ok - he needs to be playing in the field to maximize his value.   Playing in the field and being engaged in the full game may even help his hitting.   

[SwainZag]

2 hours ago, Aerodeliria said:

The worst moment in the game was the bases-loaded, swing at the first pitch by Kepler, so no, the homerun only magnified the the bases-loaded failure and had little to no redemptive effect IMHO, which also agrees with MLB's Gameday, (MLB's Gameday elevated the Twins chances of winning after the homerun from 1% to a whopping 3.5%.)

 

I didn't like the result,l but I don't mind Kep swinging at that pitch.   Yes', Solano worked a great AB and got a walk, but it's not like Munoz couldn't find the plate.  I'd rather see Kep ground out missing a good pitch to hit rather than see him try to flail at Munoz's slider which is more than likely coming if he gets ahead in the count.

[David Maro]

The question to ask is if Ober or Varland started throwing pitches feet out of the strike zone would Rocco go get them. Jeffers looked more like a hockey goalie than a catcher. At this time Gray looks OK for 50-60 pitches. If the SP keep looking this bad the team is lost. Hopefully Ober does his thing tonight and they win.