Rays 2, Twins 1: López Is Brilliant, but the Offense Remains Cold

[Doctor Wu]

Twins only mustered 3 hits, and against a bunch of no-name relief pitchers! The Rays weren't even using one of their good starting pitchers. I guess they'll save those for the better teams.  Not an encouraging week for the Twins. 

[Blyleven2011]

THE PAIN , THE PAIN , THE PAIN  ...

NOT A SMILE BY ANYONE  ...

thanks twins daily members for helping my PAIN  , it helps knowing that others ( not just me ) are in the same boat and feel the PAIN ...

LIST OF MY PAINS ...

lack of a true leadership ...

Lack of offense ...

Lack of fundamentally sound baseball  and playing the game the way it is supposed to be played ...

Oh the pain being a loyal passionate twins fans ...

[USAFChief]

Sticking to just last night's game, a couple observations:

- it's even worse...last night we faced the absolute dregs of the TB bullpen until the 9th. ,And we got shut down completely 

- I will give Kepler some slack on not stealing second on MAT's steal of 3rd, but he's not being held at first and should have made third on Lewis's single to left. It wasn't a potential line out so he didn't need to hold and the ball wasn't directly at the left fielder.

- Jeffers was watching the play on his GIDP in the 9th instead of running hard. Then tried to kick it in gear when he was shocked to see the 2nd baseman make the turn. Then out on a bang bang play. INEXCUSABLE and just another example of the kind of baseball we see under Baldelli. 

 

Longer term comments: In most situations, management gets the workforce it manages to. I particularly like the comment above about getting injuries a lot if you treat everyone like they're injury prone.

And I strongly believe you get ****** baseball when you don't believe playing the game properly is important. 

And Twins management clearly doesn't believe in playing baseball properly. Process is what matters, not Ws and Ls. Don't ever push anyone, or demand improvement. No infield or BP required. New age this, soft skills that.

It's BS. Long past time for some accountability and change.

[CRF]

6 hours ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

According to Gleeman, Kepler informed the Twins he is not willing to play CF anymore.

 

If Falvine had any self-respect, they would have told him that Kepler would play any position the Twins deemed most helpful to the team, otherwise he could attempt to find employment with one of the other 29 teams.

 

Also, Popkins (at a minimum) needs to go.  Now.

I haven't seen this info, but I know it's been rumored to be true. If Kepler really did tell Rocco, or the FO, that he won't play CF at all...then that would be the final straw. He's got to go...NOW. If he's not willing to help the team ANY WAY HE CAN...then he shouldn't be on the roster. What's best for the team is the most important factor. Just DFA him immediately. 

[William K Johnson]

Agree that I thought Kepler should have been at second on Lewis' hit.    The home run in the bottom of the inning would have only tied the game.

[ohiotwinsfan]

As bad as this offense is, it's too bad that they can't DH all of the field players with pitchers. Back in the non-DH days, most pitchers hit somewhere around .150 to .200, and a few, like Jim Kaat, were decent hitters and occasionally pinch hit and even pinch run. Most of the Twins games, they hit like a bunch of pitchers. 

[Riverbrian]

8 hours ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

According to Gleeman, Kepler informed the Twins he is not willing to play CF anymore.

 

If Falvine had any self-respect, they would have told him that Kepler would play any position the Twins deemed most helpful to the team, otherwise he could attempt to find employment with one of the other 29 teams.

 

Also, Popkins (at a minimum) needs to go.  Now.

Kepler played 9 innings of CF last year. 164 Innings in CF in 2021 including 19 starts. 

If Gleeman is accurate. I'd like to know when Kepler made the demand, request, whatever it was. 

Because the consequences of honoring that request or kneeling to such demands could include over use of Celestino in 2022 and it certainly would lead to the acquisition of Michael A. Taylor in the off season. 

If Gleeman is accurate... Kepler shouldn't be in a Twins uniform. He should be with the A's blocking Brent Rooker after signing a major league minimum free agent deal while he cashes a large check from the Twins to play against them.  

Kepler really needs to realize that he will be signing a minor league contract with someone else next year. 

But before... I get all snooty at Kepler... Can anyone confirm the accuracy of Kepler's willingness to play CF? 

[Riverbrian]

36 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Sticking to just last night's game, a couple observations:

- it's even worse...last night we faced the absolute dregs of the TB bullpen until the 9th. ,And we got shut down completely 

- I will give Kepler some slack on not stealing second on MAT's steal of 3rd, but he's not being held at first and should have made third on Lewis's single to left. It wasn't a potential line out so he didn't need to hold and the ball wasn't directly at the left fielder.

- Jeffers was watching the play on his GIDP in the 9th instead of running hard. Then tried to kick it in gear when he was shocked to see the 2nd baseman make the turn. Then out on a bang bang play. INEXCUSABLE and just another example of the kind of baseball we see under Baldelli. 

 

Longer term comments: In most situations, management gets the workforce it manages to. I particularly like the comment above about getting injuries a lot if you treat everyone like they're injury prone.

And I strongly believe you get ****** baseball when you don't believe playing the game properly is important. 

And Twins management clearly doesn't believe in playing baseball properly. Process is what matters, not Ws and Ls. Don't ever push anyone, or demand improvement. No infield or BP required. New age this, soft skills that.

It's BS. Long past time for some accountability and change.

Jeffers was caught red handed by the TV camera 80 percenting it down the line.

I sure hope Rocco calls him into the office and asks him if he likes playing the game of baseball because that was the equivalent of that guy in your office that quickly flips from Twinsdaily to his spreadsheets when the boss walks by his desk. 

[Karbo]

I am getting tired of watching all these guys trying to be Babe Ruth and swing for the fences ALL the time and miss (or take) pitches right down the middle. We might as well have a bunch of Sano's the way these guys are swinging and missing. Need a new coach with a different philosophy about making contact once in a while.

[jorgenswest]

7 hours ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

According to Gleeman, Kepler informed the Twins he is not willing to play CF anymore.

 

If Falvine had any self-respect, they would have told him that Kepler would play any position the Twins deemed most helpful to the team, otherwise he could attempt to find employment with one of the other 29 teams.

 

Also, Popkins (at a minimum) needs to go.  Now.

I don’t find that direct quote searching the Athletic. I wouldn’t trust it from someone rambling on the podcast. I don’t believe Kepler told them he is not willing and I don’t believe Aaron Gleeman reported it in such definitive terms.

[Riverbrian]

Lack of offense continues to provide our pitchers with no room for error. Even Duran is going to give up a run every once in awhile. 

However... let's imagine in our minds what our situation in the 10th would have been if Duran hung a zero in the 9th. 

1. Jeffers would have been the Manfred Man on 2nd base. Nobody was available to pinch run. Rocco's moves were used. 

2. Garlick would have been batting 2nd in the 10th. It is possible that Cash would have turned to the left handers Diekman or Beeks in the 10th but... he probably rolls with Patino because Patino can pitch multiple innings and we only have two left handers in Larnach and Kepler who shouldn't be scaring anyone right now. 

3. Currently the best hitters on the team are Kirilloff and Lewis were both removed from the game and unavailable to help in extras. Kirilloff or course was replaced by Garlick because Garlick is a better hitter than Kirilloff and with nobody in scoring position is was a critical time in the game. Lewis was replaced by Farmer in the 9th because once Taylor pinch ran for Solano (That was a good move) only Farmer could play 1B I guess. Castro can play every other position but not first in a pinch. So... Lewis must sit. And there you have it... your top two hitters are gone for the extra frames to come. 

I don't know... it's fun to think about what if's... What if Duran hung a zero? 

I continue to ask... What are they doing?  

[Riverbrian]

1 minute ago, jorgenswest said:

I don’t find that direct quote searching the Athletic. I wouldn’t trust it from someone rambling on the podcast. I don’t believe Kepler told them he is not willing and I don’t believe Aaron Gleeman reported it in such definitive terms.

Thanks... You are the best Jorgenswest. 

Please... if someone has anything on this... please provide it. Kepler has enough **** on his head without getting tagged with something false. 

[weitz41]

This offense is like a car you take to a repair shop, and they tell you it would be cheaper to buy a new one. I expected it to bad but not THIS bad...

This is looking way too much like last year's team right now...

[jorgenswest]

This offense needs to be shaken up. Replacing Kepler or Garlick or whoever is the current target of some will not be anywhere near enough.

Is a change in leadership the best path towards shaking up an offense that continually takes poor at bats by not swinging at center cut balls, swinging at balls out of the zone and whining about called strikes on the edges?

[sjunisu]

8 hours ago, Beast said:

This team is a joke.  And people still simp for Falvine like they’re beyond reproach. I’m not seeing any signs that they know how to compile a serviceable roster.  It’s the same thing every year now.  A constant quest to beat the system and find “value” in these obscure analytics darlings that can’t actually play baseball.  Then, it falls apart after about a month of decent ball, and everyone is shocked.

Can you imagine the reaction in a real baseball market if they ran a guy like Max Kepler out there after hitting .150 with no power for what’s now about a full season.  And he stunk for 2 years before that?  Not only that, but sending down a top prospect down who’s in the middle of a 1.500 OPS fire storm to make room for him?  Or, taking one of the best defensive center fielders in the history of the game and making him a DH to try and milk 50 extra hobbled ABs out of him?  Or, burning Bailey Ober’s innings in AAA for the zombie corpse of Kenta Maeda?  All while watching guys like Spencer Steer, Luis Arraez, Tyler Wells, Yanier Cano, and a number of others absolutely flourish. It’s a parody of how a baseball team should be run at this point.  Every decision they make is the wrong one.  They are bad at this.

As I said in another tread, consider the possibility of the Twins if none of the Trades/Moves Falvine have made occurred since they were hired (just put an intern in the chair and hired any experience baseball person to evaluate trade offers, not negotiate, just evaluate). No Rocco, Molitor as manager. No Kepler extension. No Sano extension. No Pressley Trade. No Donaldson deal. No Buxton extension. No Correa signing(s). None of it. One more step - drafting the BPA (by MLB ranking service) in 2019/2020 instead of Cavaco and Sabato. Heck, even BPA for every pick in every draft the last six years.

Basically taking the FO out of the equation the last 6 years and go on autopilot. Only miss Polanco extension (even that is a little questionable with minor league talent and how often he has been hurt and we would have gotten assets back in a trade) and Joe Ryan. One move and possibily one extension. Certainly would not be any worse today and would have more minor league talent.  There is not a free agent on the team that is contributing more than about replacement at this point.  And if the were still inept (which is certainly possible but certainly not given) at least we could point to an intern being the GM rather than the overpaid smarest guys in the room Falvine.

[TwinsDr2021]

This was one of the most embarrassing games played by the Twins offensively that I have ever seen.

Shawn Armstrong just off the 60 day DL, Criswell appeared in 7 big leagues games (over 3 years),Kelly rookie,Stephenson, twice traded and once claimed off waivers and was his 3 game as a Ray, Poche had allowed 29 base runners in 21 innings.

Just want to say I agree with Wallner over Kepler, lets be clear the only thing that changes is we don't have to complain about Kepler, Wallner is not the answer to what ales the Twins.

Something needs to happen to this team and I think the easiest thing to do is fire Rocco (I am not a fan of his, and don't believe he is the biggest or even one of the biggest problems this year) but something needs to be done to shake up this team and that is always the easiest.

If the Twin's piss this season away after the last two, good luck with getting people to come to down to Target field next year.

[OvertheHill]

Forgetting the nuances for just one minute, it’s just plainly a bad product from the standpoint of entertainment. All of joy that I’ve come to rely on from even bad Twins teams has been sucked out of the experience. Pinch hitting for your best/most entertaining young hitters (based on what?) is just example. I’ve been joking with family members about whose Twins jersey they should invest in, and now we’re just dropping the subject altogether. 

[Squirrel]

8 hours ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Well that’s the thing. I agree and I wouldn’t have Kepler in right, but I also don’t think any other RF (Larnach, Garlick, Wallner) catches that Franco fly ball in the 8th. 

Gallo does. When he’s not on the IL. But then we have his occasional feast but mostly famine bat. But when we DFA Kepler when Gallo returns, he’s the defensive replacement. And I’d rather have his bat, which isn’t saying much

[beterday]

This must be historical!!!  Never in my 63 years of Twins fandom have I witnessed as "talented" a lineup be this bad.  Where are Lew Ford, Bernie Allen, and Nick Punto?  And Jake Cave must still be out there somewhere.  Robbie Grossman, for ....... sake is raking for the Rangers.  I watched the futility last night in its entirety and felt like I was watching a movie of 9 (at least) baseball careers ending.  Kepler not going to second (and his not hustling for the foul ball earlier in the year) shows he would rather be painting sceneries in Italy.  Lastly, Garlick for Kiroloff when the lefty comes in, this can't be happening.

[Squirrel]

8 hours ago, Kummel said:

Bench Kepler, his heart isn't in it. 

Bench him? I want him DFA’d at this point. That is THE ONE and only move that is absolutely necessary from every angle. It would send a message to players, to on-field staff, to the fans. He should have already been gone. I was willing to see how he’d do at the beginning of the season, not that I wanted him, but willing to let it play out. It has. That one move is it. If the FO can’t pull it off, well, then Pohlad needs to replace Falvey. These things start at the top. 

[wabene]

The new look Pablo performed well. Very determined outing that bodes well for the future. 

[terrydactyls]

I know that my opinion flies in the face of "modern" thinking, but I would prefer to see a return to fundamental, team baseball.  By this I mean:

Hustling at all times

Hitting the cutoff man

Being aware of what's going on around you (such as Kepler not advancing on Taylor's steal of third)

Attempting to hit (not obliterate) a baseball

Putting the team goals ahead of personal goals

Allowing healthy players to play every day (not have scheduled days off)

To accomplish at least some of the above goals, a whole new mindset is necessary.  And that means changes not only to the roster, but also to the front office, the manager, and the coaching staff.  I have always been a strong proponent of the current front office and of Rocco Baldelli, but I will admit the error of my ways.  The season may still be salvageable but changes need to happen fast.  Otherwise, the next off-season better be a thorough cleansing.

[Riverbrian]

2 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Lack of offense continues to provide our pitchers with no room for error. Even Duran is going to give up a run every once in awhile. 

However... let's imagine in our minds what our situation in the 10th would have been if Duran hung a zero in the 9th. 

1. Jeffers would have been the Manfred Man on 2nd base. Nobody was available to pinch run. Rocco's moves were used. 

2. Garlick would have been batting 2nd in the 10th. It is possible that Cash would have turned to the left handers Diekman or Beeks in the 10th but... he probably rolls with Patino because Patino can pitch multiple innings and we only have two left handers in Larnach and Kepler who shouldn't be scaring anyone right now. 

3. Currently the best hitters on the team are Kirilloff and Lewis were both removed from the game and unavailable to help in extras. Kirilloff or course was replaced by Garlick because Garlick is a better hitter than Kirilloff and with nobody in scoring position is was a critical time in the game. Lewis was replaced by Farmer in the 9th because once Taylor pinch ran for Solano (That was a good move) only Farmer could play 1B I guess. Castro can play every other position but not first in a pinch. So... Lewis must sit. And there you have it... your top two hitters are gone for the extra frames to come. 

I don't know... it's fun to think about what if's... What if Duran hung a zero? 

I continue to ask... What are they doing?  

I want to continue on this what if. 

In the 8th... If Garlick reaches base... Is the next move pinch running for Garlick with Taylor? Probably...

And of course... If Garlick reaches base... Now Larnach is up against a left hander and would Farmer pinch hit here? Probably is the answer. 

Now Taylor isn't available to pinch run for Solano in the 9th or play CF because he is in the DH spot. 

Back to the 10th inning if Duran hangs a zero.

In the 10th... The options for Kevin Cash are remaining with Adam for another inning or the the right handed Patino who can go multiple innings. The other two options are left handers Diekman and Beeks. Everybody else is used up. 

The sensible thing to do would be Adam for the first 3 hitters in the 10th (Polanco, Garlick and Correa) and then a left hander for Larnach in the 4th spot and Kepler in the 6th spot. So if Farmer is the only guy who can play 1st base... why not substitute Farmer into Larnach or Kepler's spot instead of Lewis? 

If we are really playing the lefty/righty match up game. Take a left handed hitters out of the lineup and compromise his two left handed options available.   

I continue to ask... What are we doing? 

[umterp23]

52 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Jeffers was caught red handed by the TV camera 80 percenting it down the line.

I sure hope Rocco calls him into the office and asks him if he likes playing the game of baseball because that was the equivalent of that guy in your office that quickly flips from Twinsdaily to his spreadsheets when the boss walks by his desk. 

Camera showed him glancing as he was about 5 strides to the bag and everyone thinks he dogged it out of the box and not running hard.  Glance sure, but the odds of beating out a 102.4 barreled ball as the catchphrase goes when you are 6'-4" 235 lb catcher is a blink of an eye close.  The fault we could have is that he was aggressive on first pitch fastball down and in vs something a little more over the plate.  Not sure the last time I saw him swing at a 1st pitch but I haven't watched every single game of his career.

Last man to bat gets all the blame but Jeffers to me has shown he has matured as a batter.  Other than Lewis' one hit, Jeffers had the best at bats as a collective in the game. Single first at bat 102.2 off the bat.  Drew a walk instead of chasing a couple close pitches in 2nd at bat.  3rd at bat fought off a couple pitches and got hanging slider low and hit it a mile high straight up.  

Pretty sure Jeffers loves playing the game and was aggressive on 1st pitch in the 9th inning which anyone could say after Castro gets beaned on a sweeper aka as a slider but hey sweeper new catchphrase of '23. I'd say yes.  Does Correa, Buxton, Larnach, get the same question walking down the hallway when they K as much as they do, can't hit with runners in position to score or just are hurt to often to play the game the "love".  

 Jeffers is the least of my concern at the moment.  FO and their moves and non-moves and Baldelli having no gut clue on managing a game is more concerning.  Imagine if Wallner was demoted and Kepler, if still on the team was your bench player to get a lefty vs righty in that moment.  But no, we had a Garlick pinch hit for Kirilloff who is batting near .300 and promptly K's and looks awful. So much for the presumed "Lefty Masher".  Last guy left on the bench was paper bag hitting Vasquez who not sure has hit a ball over 100mph yet this year.  If he grounded into Jeffers DP swing he would be 1/2 way down the line.

Tough night for sure, could have stole the game.  Love your commentary but one swing and a glance is the biggest issue on this team.

[Jkeady12]

Cold is a very kind word for hapless.

[roger]

Fortunately, took the granddaughter out to dinner and only saw the last few innings.  Understand I missed a heck of a nice pitching performance.

Have been huge fan of Kepler, yet even I understand it is time to move on.  In his defense, it seems he has the worst luck of any hitter at having the umps call clear balls strikes.  

I understand you can’t DFA the entire team.  Also don’t think that is necessary.  But a good start would be starting at the top with Rocco.  When I checked the lineup before leaving for dinner I didn’t understand what he was doing.  AK is a very good first baseman.  Solano is not.  So why in the world would anyone have Solano at first and AK at DH?

It is true that Garlick hit a couple home runs against lefties.  But he isn’t the hitter he was last year and really should be in St Paul.  AK has the potential to be a great hitter for the next decade.  Why would anyone pinch hit a guy who shouldn’t be here for your future star.  I suppose some computer told him to do it.  And that is one of the reasons he should be gone, extension or not.

 

[John Belinski]

9 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

We don't need him. 😃

Correa's postgame comments are alarming. This is becoming a mental issue for this team, and they are losing faith, fire and drive. Rocco is again completely incapable of providing a distraction, a spark or a redirection. Should have been fired in 2021, but certainly after 2022. Changes need to be made now. Like right now.

Yes, this team has bigger issues. They need a new FO and new organizational philosophy. But this season can perhaps be salvaged with a new voice in the dugout.

WOW we do not need Wallner? He was on base 8 times in a row before someone decided to send him down and he continues to hit in the minors. We need hitters.

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, sjunisu said:

As I said in another tread, consider the possibility of the Twins if none of the Trades/Moves Falvine have made occurred since they were hired (just put an intern in the chair and hired any experience baseball person to evaluate trade offers, not negotiate, just evaluate). No Rocco, Molitor as manager. No Kepler extension. No Sano extension. No Pressley Trade. No Donaldson deal. No Buxton extension. No Correa signing(s). None of it. One more step - drafting the BPA (by MLB ranking service) in 2019/2020 instead of Cavaco and Sabato. Heck, even BPA for every pick in every draft the last six years.

Basically taking the FO out of the equation the last 6 years and go on autopilot. Only miss Polanco extension (even that is a little questionable with minor league talent and how often he has been hurt and we would have gotten assets back in a trade) and Joe Ryan. One move and possibily one extension. Certainly would not be any worse today and would have more minor league talent.  There is not a free agent on the team that is contributing more than about replacement at this point.  And if the were still inept (which is certainly possible but certainly not given) at least we could point to an intern being the GM rather than the overpaid smarest guys in the room Falvine.

Duran, gray, both Lopezes, Ryan all gone under your scenario.. Who are your starting pitchers with three of them gone? 

[Riverbrian]

8 minutes ago, umterp23 said:

Camera showed him glancing as he was about 5 strides to the bag and everyone thinks he dogged it out of the box and not running hard.  Glance sure, but the odds of beating out a 102.4 barreled ball as the catchphrase goes when you are 6'-4" 235 lb catcher is a blink of an eye close.  The fault we could have is that he was aggressive on first pitch fastball down and in vs something a little more over the plate.  Not sure the last time I saw him swing at a 1st pitch but I haven't watched every single game of his career.

Last man to bat gets all the blame but Jeffers to me has shown he has matured as a batter.  Other than Lewis' one hit, Jeffers had the best at bats as a collective in the game. Single first at bat 102.2 off the bat.  Drew a walk instead of chasing a couple close pitches in 2nd at bat.  3rd at bat fought off a couple pitches and got hanging slider low and hit it a mile high straight up.  

Pretty sure Jeffers loves playing the game and was aggressive on 1st pitch in the 9th inning which anyone could say after Castro gets beaned on a sweeper aka as a slider but hey sweeper new catchphrase of '23. I'd say yes.  Does Correa, Buxton, Larnach, get the same question walking down the hallway when they K as much as they do, can't hit with runners in position to score or just are hurt to often to play the game the "love".  

 Jeffers is the least of my concern at the moment.  FO and their moves and non-moves and Baldelli having no gut clue on managing a game is more concerning.  Imagine if Wallner was demoted and Kepler, if still on the team was your bench player to get a lefty vs righty in that moment.  But no, we had a Garlick pinch hit for Kirilloff who is batting near .300 and promptly K's and looks awful. So much for the presumed "Lefty Masher".  Last guy left on the bench was paper bag hitting Vasquez who not sure has hit a ball over 100mph yet this year.  If he grounded into Jeffers DP swing he would be 1/2 way down the line.

Tough night for sure, could have stole the game.  Love your commentary but one swing and a glance is the biggest issue on this team.

The other day... my wife was on her way home and I knew that she was mad at me. I forgot to put the recyclables out. She typically becomes a little less mad if she is allowed some time to breathe. I looked out the kitchen window and I could see her car turning onto our street about 3 blocks down.

At that moment... I knew I had no time to spare. I had to get to my car and someplace else to allow her time to breathe. 

When you give 110%... your head is looking down at the ground. I gave 110%... If I would have looked back... I wouldn't have made it. 

I'm still married.  

[Whitey333]

Garlick pinch hitting for kiriloff?  Really???  Yes we all know the lefty righty thing just as we all knew Garlick would strike out.  Garlick is like 3 for 17 against lefties.  If they think kiriloff is as good as they tell us then he should be in the lineup regularly even against lefties.  There's so much wrong with this team and much of it comes down to team philosophy and player management.  Throw in an incompetent manager and you get a very boring team.  I love Rwins baseball but the past 3 seasons have been some of the most boring teams I've ever seen.  The fans deserve much better than we are being force fed.