Rays 2, Twins 1: López Is Brilliant, but the Offense Remains Cold

[Mike Sixel]

14 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

As long as we are drifting into draft talk, one of my biggest disappointments is that here is Royce Lewis, the front office’s very first draft pick, future leader and all star and cornerstone of the franchise, finally on schedule and ready to take the reigns at shortstop. 

and then they sign Correa. 

I understand the argument for having good players and moving them around, but the long term plan was for Lewis to play shortstop for the next half decade. And by signing Correa, I kind of feel that they gave up on the plan just when it was ready to bear fruit. Even if Correa had been hitting, still not a fan of the stinging. Because Lewis.  

All Ye Abandon Faith, or whatever that saying is. 

Almost no one (Law, FG, others) saw / sees Lewis as a SS long term. They could all be wrong, of course. 

[joefish]

It's time to add a lifejacket to the Twins' homerun celebration dugout gimmick. Maybe add a gaf hook also. 

Pull in the survivors. 

Keppler messed up on the bases as did Jeffers. In critical moments that required extra effort, they both became casual observers. Jeffers' last ditch tumble didn't cover it up.

[Maybebaby]

12 hours ago, Beast said:

This team is a joke.  And people still simp for Falvine like they’re beyond reproach. I’m not seeing any signs that they know how to compile a serviceable roster.  It’s the same thing every year now.  A constant quest to beat the system and find “value” in these obscure analytics darlings that can’t actually play baseball.  Then, it falls apart after about a month of decent ball, and everyone is shocked.

Can you imagine the reaction in a real baseball market if they ran a guy like Max Kepler out there after hitting .150 with no power for what’s now about a full season.  And he stunk for 2 years before that?  Not only that, but sending down a top prospect down who’s in the middle of a 1.500 OPS fire storm to make room for him?  Or, taking one of the best defensive center fielders in the history of the game and making him a DH to try and milk 50 extra hobbled ABs out of him?  Or, burning Bailey Ober’s innings in AAA for the zombie corpse of Kenta Maeda?  All while watching guys like Spencer Steer, Luis Arraez, Tyler Wells, Yanier Cano, and a number of others absolutely flourish. It’s a parody of how a baseball team should be run at this point.  Every decision they make is the wrong one.  They are bad at this.

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

27 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I think anytime you can sign a top 3 player at a position, or top 20-30 player in all of baseball, you do it. Would you not sign Mike Trout because you have a young Corbin Carroll ready to debut?

Irrelevant. We are talking about Correa and Lewis. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

22 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Almost no one (Law, FG, others) saw / sees Lewis as a SS long term. They could all be wrong, of course. 

That’s just the usual Hot Take industry, if you ask me.

So down the road, if Lewis is struggling, you move him to third. why close the door on it before you need to. Heck, I would have still had Polanco at short last season and early this season. 

Anyway, Radcliffe loved Lewis.

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

That’s just the usual Hot Take industry, if you ask me.

So down the road, if Lewis is struggling, you move him to third. why close the door on it before you need to. Heck, I would have still had Polanco at short last season and early this season. 

Anyway, Radcliffe loved Lewis.

We'll not agree on that first sentence at all. It's not HAWT take to say that at all.

I think the plan was to put him in the CF or LF .... once they had CC. But he doesn't want that, and I can understand making him comfortable. 

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Irrelevant. We are talking about Correa and Lewis. 

Why is it irrelevant? Your stance was that you wouldn't sign a "good player" because the plan was to have a young guy "take the reigns." You said that was giving up "on the plan just when it was ready to bear fruit." It's not irrelevant to ask if you'd forego signing a different "good player" if you had a different young guy ready to "take the reigns."

Pick whatever good, proven, top 30 MLB talent you want, and whatever top pick, ready for a fulltime shot in the majors prospect you want. Doesn't have to be Trout and Carroll. But if it's really about offseason decision making on passing on elite talent for a prospect then whether or not you'd do it with other players is entirely relevant. 

Royce Lewis has a fulltime position right now with the Twins. Has since he's been eligible to come off the IL. But you would rather that fulltime position be SS, and the Twins not have a top 30 talent in Correa. That's a bold statement that should be able to be backed up with more than "irrelevant" when presented with other players who fit those categories.

[joefish]

Just a poor offensive performance.  Another one. 

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

14 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

But you would rather that fulltime position be SS, and the Twins not have a top 30 talent in Correa.

Yes, definitely Lewis should be full time SS. I saw enough of Correa in 2022 to think he was good but overrated at the plate (without the trash can lids etc /obligatory)

Plus the other stuff, like being a mid-market team, WAR per dollar, vision of what the franchise should look like, and so on. Lewis was the answer, and if not Lewis, Lee. Where is our revenue poster when I need him to back me up on this!

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Yes, definitely Lewis should be full time SS. I saw enough of Correa in 2022 to think he was good but overrated at the plate (without the trash can lids etc /obligatory)

Plus the other stuff, like being a mid-market team, WAR per dollar, vision of what the franchise should look like, and so on. Lewis was the answer, and if not Lewis, Lee. Where is our revenue poster when I need him to back me up on this!

I think this is a reasonable take, that I just disagree with, which is cool with me.

[John Belinski]

2 hours ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

Bases loaded,  top of the ninth, 1 out, fast runner on third, Jeffers at bat, game tied 1 to 1, Duran warmed up in the bullpen. Polo, arguably the Twins best hitter over the last 2-3 years, on deck. WHY DID ROCCO NOT TELL JEFFERS TO SACRIFICE BUNT? Jeffers can bunt very well, as he has shown earlier this year. If he failed, it most likely would not have been a double play, and Polo is coming up to hit. I think this was a game losing mistake, but we will never know.

Rocco just can not manage a game. A bunt probably gets the run in and then Polo gets to hit.  Rocco just has no feel for the game. Hiring him was one of the biggest mistakes the Twins have ever made and now the front office decided to extend him. I guess they were concerned some high school team would hire him, but even that probably would not happen.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

4 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I think this is a reasonable take, that I just disagree with, which is cool with me.

Thanks - I was going to say the same thing - we can disagree about what the industry guys say

[chpettit19]

20 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Yes, definitely Lewis should be full time SS. I saw enough of Correa in 2022 to think he was good but overrated at the plate (without the trash can lids etc /obligatory)

Plus the other stuff, like being a mid-market team, WAR per dollar, vision of what the franchise should look like, and so on. Lewis was the answer, and if not Lewis, Lee. Where is our revenue poster when I need him to back me up on this!

Where do you spend the Correa money then? What's the realistic situation that leads to this being an overall better team without Correa?

[DJL44]

4 hours ago, roger said:

I understand you can’t DFA the entire team.  Also don’t think that is necessary.  But a good start would be starting at the top with Rocco.  When I checked the lineup before leaving for dinner I didn’t understand what he was doing.  AK is a very good first baseman.  Solano is not.  So why in the world would anyone have Solano at first and AK at DH?

It is true that Garlick hit a couple home runs against lefties.  But he isn’t the hitter he was last year and really should be in St Paul.  AK has the potential to be a great hitter for the next decade.  Why would anyone pinch hit a guy who shouldn’t be here for your future star.  I suppose some computer told him to do it.  And that is one of the reasons he should be gone, extension or not.

Rocco isn't the top. I don't think he writes out the lineup.

[TryingToBeHopeful]

First off - I love reading what the excellent authors at TD have to say, and how they say it and I love reading the responses from people who are obviously passionate, at least to some extent, about the Twins and the greater game of baseball. I haven't made a TD account to post because I never saw the need, but this stretch of the season is frustrating to watch and follow.

 

I would assume most or all (myself included!) of the community has some degree of experience within the game of baseball, and that naturally there is a competitive nature to our desire to win and our desire to watch winning baseball. I don't expect the Twins to outspend major market teams (maybe i should?) but there are plenty of examples of quality organizations, including the one we are currently playing, who consistently put out a competitive product. I will be the first to concede that compared to probably every individual within the Twins organization, I am the least qualified to make actual assessments of how to improve. But I can't understand how someone in the FO, coaching staff, ownership group, or the players hasn't been more vocal about the stretch we are in. I hate the Yankees, I do. Tremendously. But I can't help but admire how Aaron Boone treats winning and poor play, and attacks the game with a mentality that is infectious . Or how guys like Aaron Judge truly embody the leadership role and the team follows his lead (to hit, win, compete!).

 

The thing that bothers me also is that every guy on this Twins roster, including the least talented (whoever that might be) is in the top .01% of athletes in the game of baseball. Buckle down, do your job, get a hit, throw a strike, make an out, compete. I have no doubt that's their desire but man, how do you fail over and over. Sometimes I wish I didn't care about winning or losing, and baseball could just be a thing to watch while doing something else. I look forward to the rest of the season, hope we find a groove, and won't feel at all ashamed to win the AL Central even if we are close to a .500 team. If we win, we win. Then win one game at a time after that.

[rickyriolo]

DFA  Garlick now and bring up Waller ASAP

[tarheeltwinsfan]

5 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

I haven't seen him mentioned as a likely target, but I'd take him over either one of those "high floor, low ceiling" Jacobs they're talking about. But I don't see any reason they should go outside the top 5. It's pretty rare to find 5 guys in a draft that every public ranker says would be a #1 pick almost any other season. I don't know how involved the new Pohlad is (it sounds like he offices out of Target Field so he's around), but I'd sure demand some incredible reasons to go outside the "best top 5 in over a decade" if I were him.

I agree about taking one of the consensus top 5, whichever one is available. If more than 1 is available I would chose Crews, Skenes, Wyatt, Clark and Jenkins in that order. I was proposing Teel over Gonzales or Jacobs. But then I guess that is moot, since Teel won't be around for the Twins next draft selection.

[roger]

3 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Rocco isn't the top. I don't think he writes out the lineup.

Then who does, Correa?

[USAFChief]

10 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Lack of offense continues to provide our pitchers with no room for error. Even Duran is going to give up a run every once in awhile. 

However... let's imagine in our minds what our situation in the 10th would have been if Duran hung a zero in the 9th. 

1. Jeffers would have been the Manfred Man on 2nd base. Nobody was available to pinch run. Rocco's moves were used. 

2. Garlick would have been batting 2nd in the 10th. It is possible that Cash would have turned to the left handers Diekman or Beeks in the 10th but... he probably rolls with Patino because Patino can pitch multiple innings and we only have two left handers in Larnach and Kepler who shouldn't be scaring anyone right now. 

3. Currently the best hitters on the team are Kirilloff and Lewis were both removed from the game and unavailable to help in extras. Kirilloff or course was replaced by Garlick because Garlick is a better hitter than Kirilloff and with nobody in scoring position is was a critical time in the game. Lewis was replaced by Farmer in the 9th because once Taylor pinch ran for Solano (That was a good move) only Farmer could play 1B I guess. Castro can play every other position but not first in a pinch. So... Lewis must sit. And there you have it... your top two hitters are gone for the extra frames to come. 

I don't know... it's fun to think about what if's... What if Duran hung a zero? 

I continue to ask... What are they doing?  

Careful. Questioning Baldelli is out of bounds.

[Riverbrian]

22 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Careful. Questioning Baldelli is out of bounds.

He's standing out of bounds. Its where I have to go. 

[DJL44]

2 hours ago, roger said:

Then who does, Correa?

I'm pretty sure the analytics guys hand the game plan to Rocco, including the lineup.

[USAFChief]

Just now, DJL44 said:

I'm pretty sure the analytics guys hand the game plan to Rocco, including the lineup.

I'm pretty sure Rocco gets tons of data, but he writes the lineup out.

And makes pinch hitting, pinch running, and pitching change decisions.

He's not getting a lineup handed to him. I'd wager a lot on that. 

[roger]

26 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I'm pretty sure the analytics guys hand the game plan to Rocco, including the lineup.

Are you serious?  Then I know where young Pohlad can save a bunch of money. Fire Rocco and find a AI to run the team.  

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, roger said:

Are you serious?  Then I know where young Pohlad can save a bunch of money. Fire Rocco and find a AI to run the team.  

I'm not sure they're far off from that. The AI can't sit in the dugout though so they have to find a paper-pusher like Rocco to actually do what it says.

The front office is happy with Rocco. He's doing exactly what they want him to do (which is a good way to keep your job). If they fire Rocco they'll just bring in another Rocco.

[Shobae]

Wanted to come here to say that this was by far Lopez best start and him showing why the twins traded luis arraez for him. Though all I found was a bunch of depressed twins fans shadow boxing against the hated analytics strawman. It's funny because if you actually take a look around the league and the least analytically inclined teams, some that come to mind are the white sox, royals and rockies (who's front office is the laughing stock of baseball). Not sure why anyone would want their favorite team to be run like those, but I know how this goes. We want the results of the Astros, Dodgers, Rays or Braves with the aesthetics and mentality of the "good old times of real baseball".
I would also like to have my cake and be able to eat it too, but that just ain't the way of the world. I think there are a lot of valid criticisms you can make about the current state of this team, but "reject analytics, return to tradition" rings especially hollow to me. If you want analytic free baseball management I would highly recommend you to become a colorado rockies fan. Nobody cares less about "modern thinking" and "industry consensus" than their FO, sounds like a match made in heaven for some commenters here.