Rays 2, Twins 1: López Is Brilliant, but the Offense Remains Cold

[chpettit19]

9 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Front office didn't while the season burns. I'm ready to fire them, and I've been their biggest defender here. Inaction is inexcusable. Playing with no bench is inexcusable. I'm done. 

Yeah, my straw broke, too. I'll still end up defending some decisions, because they aren't all bad, but I'm done with them overall. My "stay or go" decision maker coming into the season was them showing an improved ability to adjust off "the plan" quicker than usual. They've failed. We're 62 games into the season, and I'm not seeing any changes being made to anything. Adding to the no bench/roster decisions (they've at least twice made injury decisions so last minute they couldn't call anyone up) complaint I'll add: Correa continues to hit 3 hole (Falvine and Rocco are all the same to me as I believe it's a 3 man decision making triangle), Kepler still has a job, they continue to not only employ Kyle Garlick, but hit him for Alex Kirilloff simply because he was the first lefty to face a lefty, and just show an overall lack of ability to make true shifts in season. They have an idea of what these guys "should" be capable of, and they run the team based off that while only making changes in the offseason. They're going to watch the season burn because of their inability to make "quick" adjustments.

I'd like to see them all fired before the draft if the rumors are true that they're looking at passing on one of the top 5 guys. Filling their roles in season is not ideal by any means, but we're staring Total System Failure in the face again, and something has to be done to right this ship before July.

[Blyleven2011]

53 minutes ago, terrydactyls said:

I know that my opinion flies in the face of "modern" thinking, but I would prefer to see a return to fundamental, team baseball.  By this I mean:

Hustling at all times

Hitting the cutoff man

Being aware of what's going on around you (such as Kepler not advancing on Taylor's steal of third)

Attempting to hit (not obliterate) a baseball

Putting the team goals ahead of personal goals

Allowing healthy players to play every day (not have scheduled days off)

To accomplish at least some of the above goals, a whole new mindset is necessary.  And that means changes not only to the roster, but also to the front office, the manager, and the coaching staff.  I have always been a strong proponent of the current front office and of Rocco Baldelli, but I will admit the error of my ways.  The season may still be salvageable but changes need to happen fast.  Otherwise, the next off-season better be a thorough cleansing.

Well put ,,, it will be a lost season  If they don't act fast  ...

[Woof Bronzer]

9 hours ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

According to Gleeman, Kepler informed the Twins he is not willing to play CF anymore.

Is this for real?  If so, why is Kepler still on this team?  

Players deciding where they want to play.  One player anointing himself GM and deciding Buxton's a full time DH now.  This organization is broken.  

I continue to be extremely concerned that the longer we hang on to this FO and manager, the longer it is going to take to repair the damage done.  

[Johnny Ringo]

Kepler cost them the game last night. Taylor steals third in the ninth and Kepler is inexplicably frozen on first. He would have tied on the subsequent single even he had merely walked to second on the back end of the steal. Instead, the Twins only score one run. 

He should be DFA'd. The only arguments to keep him are bad: the FO should have moved him in the off-season and didn't ; and/or they don't want to eat the remaining $3 or $4 million in compensation due him.

Wallner and Larnach are fully capable of stepping in. At 25 and 26, there are expiration dates on them too. 

Is Falvey really willing to let their pride decide his actions?  

[OvertheHill]

1 hour ago, terrydactyls said:

I know that my opinion flies in the face of "modern" thinking, but I would prefer to see a return to fundamental, team baseball.  By this I mean:

Hustling at all times

Hitting the cutoff man

Being aware of what's going on around you (such as Kepler not advancing on Taylor's steal of third)

Attempting to hit (not obliterate) a baseball

Putting the team goals ahead of personal goals

Allowing healthy players to play every day (not have scheduled days off)

To accomplish at least some of the above goals, a whole new mindset is necessary.  And that means changes not only to the roster, but also to the front office, the manager, and the coaching staff.  I have always been a strong proponent of the current front office and of Rocco Baldelli, but I will admit the error of my ways.  The season may still be salvageable but changes need to happen fast.  Otherwise, the next off-season better be a thorough cleansing.

Trevor in the booth was practically begging for the Twins to be bunting on that Castro AB, correctly pointing out how difficult a play in general for the 3B it was. In the game that I grew up with, a left handed light hitting speed guy was essentially assumed to be doing that; it made all the sense in the world given the context of the 9th inning last night.

But no evidence of that level of thinking in the Twins dugout. Besides, Trevor said it was "unpopular". 

[Woof Bronzer]

1 hour ago, terrydactyls said:

I know that my opinion flies in the face of "modern" thinking, but I would prefer to see a return to fundamental, team baseball.  

The thing is, there are no analytics that tell you not to hustle or play fundamentals.  The "modern" thinking is based on fundamental misunderstanding of statistics.  Just because the numbers tell you bunting is not the best way to score piles of runs over the long haul doesn't mean you should never bunt (sometimes 1 run is all you need!).  Just because the numbers tell you home runs are the most efficient way to score doesn't mean you should ignore all other baseball skills (defense, contact, baserunning) and only focus on power.  Just because double plays are unfortunate doesn't mean that strikeouts are totally fine.  Just because process is important doesn't make process more important than results.  It's just so frustrating to watch game after game of "it aint working" and seeing literally nothing change.  

[sjunisu]

26 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Duran, gray, both Lopezes, Ryan all gone under your scenario.. Who are your starting pitchers with three of them gone? 

How predictable you come to Falvine defense Mike.  We have Chase Petty ( or someone else drafted) back for Gray.  Would have had Presley and Escobar in place of Duran.  Considering we would have 6 yrs of redrafting and international signings I am betting we could have produced more pitchers than Ober and Varland - but that is just my thoughts.  

[chpettit19]

5 minutes ago, sjunisu said:

How predictable you come to Falvine defense Mike.  We have Chase Petty ( or someone else drafted) back for Gray.  Would have had Presley and Escobar in place of Duran.  Considering we would have 6 yrs of redrafting and international signings I am betting we could have produced more pitchers than Ober and Varland - but that is just my thoughts.  

How does 20 year old, high A ball Chase Petty help the current Twins situation? It's not even about defending Falvine, it's about this exercise you're attempting to do not really being useful. Which international signings would've been made with your "intern GM" in place? Why is MLB's scouting rankings the decision maker and not Baseball America, Keith Law, Fangraphs, etc. etc. etc., and what would those picks actually have been? To Mike's question, who would the rotation have been this year? If you're going to do the exercise do the whole exercise, and don't just pick out the bad moves and say "if these had never happened they'd be much better now." What would this team look like based on your "intern GM" theory?

Go through every move they made and neutralize it with your "intern GM" idea and tell us what the 2023 MN Twins 26 Man roster would look like. Then we can see how improved it'd be.

[Woof Bronzer]

38 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I'd like to see them all fired before the draft if the rumors are true that they're looking at passing on one of the top 5 guys. 

I don't think I've heard this rumor, can you expand on this?  Why would they do that?  

[madtowntwin]

Intentionally took a night off from Twins "Baseball" last evening and instead enjoyed some NBA Basketball background to vinyl on the turntable. After reading thru the posts it sounds like a wise decision in terms of blood pressure, karma, psyche....The post by "Beast" probable would sum up my frustration best had I chosen otherwise. Except that he forgot Brent Rooker. 

[chpettit19]

Just now, Woof Bronzer said:

I don't think I've heard this rumor, can you expand on this?  Why would they do that?  

A number of the mock drafts coming out (so take these as just the rumors they are) have stated that sources are telling the writers that the Twins don't really want a HS bat (Clark especially sounds like he's not really on their board at all), and would look to take someone like Jacob Gonzalez or Jacob Wilson instead.

[Riverbrian]

21 minutes ago, Johnny Ringo said:

Kepler cost them the game last night. Taylor steals third in the ninth and Kepler is inexplicably frozen on first. He would have tied on the subsequent single even he had merely walked to second on the back end of the steal. Instead, the Twins only score one run. 

He should be DFA'd. The only arguments to keep him are bad: the FO should have moved him in the off-season and didn't ; and/or they don't want to eat the remaining $3 or $4 million in compensation due him.

Wallner and Larnach are fully capable of stepping in. At 25 and 26, there are expiration dates on them too. 

Is Falvey really willing to let their pride decide his actions?  

I'm going to assume that Taylor went on his own. Kepler wouldn't have known he was going. 

I'm assuming of course.

Now if the ball is thrown to third and a tag needs to be applied... he could he have taken off once the ball is thrown to third. But, he would be getting a real late jump and these major league players have real good arms and can get that ball from 3B to 2B really really quick. 

I'd like to see him on 2nd in that scenerio but I can understand why he wasn't there if he didn't know Taylor was going. 

If he missed a sign and the bench called for a double steal... Yeah... then we got an issue. 

 

[chpettit19]

6 minutes ago, madtowntwin said:

Intentionally took a night off from Twins "Baseball" last evening and instead enjoyed some NBA Basketball background to vinyl on the turntable. After reading thru the posts it sounds like a wise decision in terms of blood pressure, karma, psyche....The post by "Beast" probable would sum up my frustration best had I chosen otherwise. Except that he forgot Brent Rooker. 

I'd suggest you take a look at Rooker's numbers since April before you get too far down the road of missing him.

Since May 1st he's hitting .213/.299/.352/.651 with 3 homeruns, and a 32.1% strikeout rate. Brent Rooker has officially returned to earth, and is Brent Rooker again.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

Bases loaded,  top of the ninth, 1 out, fast runner on third, Jeffers at bat, game tied 1 to 1, Duran warmed up in the bullpen. Polo, arguably the Twins best hitter over the last 2-3 years, on deck. WHY DID ROCCO NOT TELL JEFFERS TO SACRIFICE BUNT? Jeffers can bunt very well, as he has shown earlier this year. If he failed, it most likely would not have been a double play, and Polo is coming up to hit. I think this was a game losing mistake, but we will never know.

[David Maro]

One question no one has asked is who would you vote to the Allstar game? I don't see a single position player on this roster. I think only Gray,Ryan,or Duran will get any chance. That should tell everyone all we need to know. This team is done and will sink like a stone from here just like last year. I will be interested in the Vikings from here. Been a Twins fan since 1961 and see the hand writing on the wall. 

[tarheeltwinsfan]

12 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

A number of the mock drafts coming out (so take these as just the rumors they are) have stated that sources are telling the writers that the Twins don't really want a HS bat (Clark especially sounds like he's not really on their board at all), and would look to take someone like Jacob Gonzalez or Jacob Wilson instead.

How about a college catcher from U. Va. who hit over .400 this year instead of another AAA SS/2B/3B utility player. The Twins are in dire need of a good catching prospect. 

[tarheeltwinsfan]

39 minutes ago, OvertheHill said:

Trevor in the booth was practically begging for the Twins to be bunting on that Castro AB, correctly pointing out how difficult a play in general for the 3B it was. In the game that I grew up with, a left handed light hitting speed guy was essentially assumed to be doing that; it made all the sense in the world given the context of the 9th inning last night.

But no evidence of that level of thinking in the Twins dugout. Besides, Trevor said it was "unpopular". 

Plus Jeffers should have sacrifice bunted in the ninth with 1 out and the bases loaded. 

[chpettit19]

6 minutes ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

How about a college catcher from U. Va. who hit over .400 this year instead of another AAA SS/2B/3B utility player. The Twins are in dire need of a good catching prospect. 

I haven't seen him mentioned as a likely target, but I'd take him over either one of those "high floor, low ceiling" Jacobs they're talking about. But I don't see any reason they should go outside the top 5. It's pretty rare to find 5 guys in a draft that every public ranker says would be a #1 pick almost any other season. I don't know how involved the new Pohlad is (it sounds like he offices out of Target Field so he's around), but I'd sure demand some incredible reasons to go outside the "best top 5 in over a decade" if I were him.

[Squirrel]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

The other day... my wife was on her way home and I knew that she was mad at me. I forgot to put the recyclables out. She typically becomes a little less mad if she is allowed some time to breathe. I looked out the kitchen window and I could see her car turning onto our street about 3 blocks down.

At that moment... I knew I had no time to spare. I had to get to my car and someplace else to allow her time to breathe. 

When you give 110%... your head is looking down at the ground. I gave 110%... If I would have looked back... I wouldn't have made it. 

I'm still married.  

If you were giving 110%, you would have gotten the recyclables out in the first place. Just sayin'. And not sure what I'm saying, other than ... I don't agree with your analogy, but I do agree with the spirit of it. 🙂

[Riverbrian]

26 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

If you were giving 110%, you would have gotten the recyclables out in the first place. Just sayin'. And not sure what I'm saying, other than ... I don't agree with your analogy, but I do agree with the spirit of it. 🙂

You are right... and my wife is always right. I should have gotten the recyclables out in the first place. 

My not getting the recyclables out was -- Jeffers swinging at the first pitch down and which created the grounder that led to needing 110% effort to avoid the double play. 

I am giving 110% with my analogy. 😎

Now I gotta flip back to my spreadsheets. My boss is about to walk by.  

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

Yeah, my straw broke, too. I'll still end up defending some decisions, because they aren't all bad, but I'm done with them overall. My "stay or go" decision maker coming into the season was them showing an improved ability to adjust off "the plan" quicker than usual. They've failed. We're 62 games into the season, and I'm not seeing any changes being made to anything. Adding to the no bench/roster decisions (they've at least twice made injury decisions so last minute they couldn't call anyone up) complaint I'll add: Correa continues to hit 3 hole (Falvine and Rocco are all the same to me as I believe it's a 3 man decision making triangle), Kepler still has a job, they continue to not only employ Kyle Garlick, but hit him for Alex Kirilloff simply because he was the first lefty to face a lefty, and just show an overall lack of ability to make true shifts in season. They have an idea of what these guys "should" be capable of, and they run the team based off that while only making changes in the offseason. They're going to watch the season burn because of their inability to make "quick" adjustments.

I'd like to see them all fired before the draft if the rumors are true that they're looking at passing on one of the top 5 guys. Filling their roles in season is not ideal by any means, but we're staring Total System Failure in the face again, and something has to be done to right this ship before July.

This

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, sjunisu said:

How predictable you come to Falvine defense Mike.  We have Chase Petty ( or someone else drafted) back for Gray.  Would have had Presley and Escobar in place of Duran.  Considering we would have 6 yrs of redrafting and international signings I am betting we could have produced more pitchers than Ober and Varland - but that is just my thoughts.  

I literally said I'd fire them, so I have no idea what you're talking about. 

[chpettit19]

3 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

This

To be fair to the triangle of power, they did drop Correa from the 3 hole today. To the 4 hole. 🤦‍♂️

[sjunisu]

51 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

How does 20 year old, high A ball Chase Petty help the current Twins situation? It's not even about defending Falvine, it's about this exercise you're attempting to do not really being useful. Which international signings would've been made with your "intern GM" in place? Why is MLB's scouting rankings the decision maker and not Baseball America, Keith Law, Fangraphs, etc. etc. etc., and what would those picks actually have been? To Mike's question, who would the rotation have been this year? If you're going to do the exercise do the whole exercise, and don't just pick out the bad moves and say "if these had never happened they'd be much better now." What would this team look like based on your "intern GM" theory?

Go through every move they made and neutralize it with your "intern GM" idea and tell us what the 2023 MN Twins 26 Man roster would look like. Then we can see how improved it'd be.

Use whatever draft ranking service you want.  I am not going to analyze 6 yrs of moves and redraft the entire 6 yrs (Joe Pohlad should ask for this analysis though).  International signings could be done as simply take the money and sign the highest rated players possible - with what the money allows. The point is the duo have added virtually nothing during their 6+ yr tenure and having a very inexperienced person would not have produced any fewer playoff wins (zero thus far).  The straw argument that there would be no pitching does not fly.  If we don’t sign players to extensions then we would have fielded trade proposals which would have netted something back.  Are those assets pitching, don’t know as it is theoretical, but may have been.  Bottom line is Falvine have done virtually nothing since they arrived that a majority of the people on this website could not have accomplished - with the possibility that  a few could have done more.

As far as the argument of laying out a plan what I or someone else would have done over the last 6 yrs, give me 1/10 of what those two have earned thus far and I would be happy to spend the time to do so.

[chpettit19]

6 minutes ago, sjunisu said:

Use whatever draft ranking service you want.  I am not going to analyze 6 yrs of moves and redraft the entire 6 yrs (Joe Pohlad should ask for this analysis though).  International signings could be done as simply take the money and sign the highest rated players possible - with what the money allows. The point is the duo have added virtually nothing during their 6+ yr tenure and having a very inexperienced person would not have produced any fewer playoff wins (zero thus far).  The straw argument that there would be no pitching does not fly.  If we don’t sign players to extensions then we would have fielded trade proposals which would have netted something back.  Are those assets pitching, don’t know as it is theoretical, but may have been.  Bottom line is Falvine have done virtually nothing since they arrived that a majority of the people on this website could not have accomplished - with the possibility that  a few could have done more.

As far as the argument of laying out a plan what I or someone else would have done over the last 6 yrs, give me 1/10 of what those two have earned thus far and I would be happy to spend the time to do so.

"I'm not going to analyze 6 years of moves" is your stance? You realize that's literally what you were claiming to be doing when you presented your "intern GM" idea, right? Falvine have failed at their jobs. I'm ready to move on. But your "intern GM" idea is out there. The idea that any of us (other than the couple of actual front office personnel who comment from time to time) could actually run an MLB team is flat out ridiculous. 

"The straw argument that there would be not pitching does not fly" is an interesting sentence when your whole idea is that you'd just take away all their moves and then just do good ones instead. OK, you win, if we take away all the bad moves the FO made, and just assume the moves a random "intern GM," or, apparently, any random TD poster, would make were good the team would be better. Guess I can't argue that.

"If we don't sign players to extensions then we would have fielded trade proposals back which would have netted something back." Correct. My point is that you're just assuming those assets would be good. Mike and I weren't saying there'd be literally no pitching on the team, but that the FO has built one of the best rotations in baseball right now by having made moves. You can't just take away their moves and say you have any idea what the results would have been if they hadn't made them. 

The FO has failed. It's time for the whole brain trust to go. But they're not the worst FO in the league, let alone worse than "a majority of the people on this website." That's a ridiculous argument. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

As long as we are drifting into draft talk, one of my biggest disappointments is that here is Royce Lewis, the front office’s very first draft pick, future leader and all star and cornerstone of the franchise, finally on schedule and ready to take the reigns at shortstop. 

and then they sign Correa. 

I understand the argument for having good players and moving them around, but the long term plan was for Lewis to play shortstop for the next half decade. And by signing Correa, I kind of feel that they gave up on the plan just when it was ready to bear fruit. Even if Correa had been hitting, still not a fan of the stinging. Because Lewis.  

All Ye Abandon Faith, or whatever that saying is. 

[Danchat]

1 hour ago, sjunisu said:

How predictable you come to Falvine defense Mike.  We have Chase Petty ( or someone else drafted) back for Gray.  Would have had Presley and Escobar in place of Duran.  Considering we would have 6 yrs of redrafting and international signings I am betting we could have produced more pitchers than Ober and Varland - but that is just my thoughts.  

You want those two months of Eduardo Escobar back for full control of Jhoan Duran, just because he gave up a single run yesterday?!

BTW, Eddie would not be helping this team right now with his subpar 670 OPS.

[HokieRif]

I just had to laugh at the headline.  Saying our offense is cold is like saying the South Pole is a tad bit chilly.

[chpettit19]

3 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

As long as we are drifting into draft talk, one of my biggest disappointments is that here is Royce Lewis, the front office’s very first draft pick, future leader and all star and cornerstone of the franchise, finally on schedule and ready to take the reigns at shortstop. 

and then they sign Correa. 

I understand the argument for having good players and moving them around, but the long term plan was for Lewis to play shortstop for the next half decade. And by signing Correa, I kind of feel that they gave up on the plan just when it was ready to bear fruit. Even if Correa had been hitting, still not a fan of the stinging. Because Lewis.  

All Ye Abandon Faith, or whatever that saying is. 

I think anytime you can sign a top 3 player at a position, or top 20-30 player in all of baseball, you do it. Would you not sign Mike Trout because you have a young Corbin Carroll ready to debut?

[jorgenswest]

1 hour ago, Johnny Ringo said:

Kepler cost them the game last night. Taylor steals third in the ninth and Kepler is inexplicably frozen on first. He would have tied on the subsequent single even he had merely walked to second on the back end of the steal. Instead, the Twins only score one run. 

Disagree here. He can’t get thrown out at 2nd and be the second out. They need that runner on third with one out to keep the sac fly in order. No way the Rays let him walk to second.