Minnesota Twins Pitching Pipeline: Fact, Fiction, and the Future

[Otaknam]

“Kendry Rojas offers intriguing upside. The Twins have talked very highly of him since he was acquired.” Of course the FO would talk very highly of him. What else could they do after the trade but talk him up? Also, by trading for Abel they must have thought he could at least be a mid rotation starter. if Abel is nothing more than a back of the rotation starter or bullpen guy, that trade is a bust, even if Tait becomes a starter in two years.  They need starters for 2026, and Abel needs to be that guy. 

[Maybebaby]

More than obvious by now but looks to me like Falvey is not the "Pitcher whisperer" we thought he was.  We got the WRONG GUY.  Who ever was the guy is still in Cleveland.  Proof is in the pudding!

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[TopGunn#22]

In the last few years, Joe Ryan has taken his obvious talent to Driveline and further enhanced it, making himself an All Star pitcher.  Imagine if Matthews, Bradley and Abel did the same thing?  Having seen the raw "stuff" that Matthews, Bradley and Abel have, if command of that "stuff" can somehow become more consistent and/or determining that an ineffective pitch be dropped or a new pitch be added, there could be a break through for some or all of those pitchers next year.  SWR opened my eyes at season's end.  He may have turned a corner.  

You could counter that Tampa or Philly could have or should have already accomplished that with Bradley and Abel, and that would be a fair assessment.  But the point is that ALL major league teams have players with talent/tools that they try to enhance and sometimes it works, sometimes it takes longer, and sometimes guys just never "get it."  

The "potential" for a pretty effective starting staff is there for the Twins.  The "potential" for some BP arms to emerge is also there.  I'm a big believer that to be in the BP shouldn't mean you're in purgatory forever.  If a guy shows out there, he moves from being a 6th inning guy to a 7th inning guy, from a 7th inning guy to an 8th inning guy and so on.  We've also seen a number of initially ineffective SP's flourish in the BP and actually make it back to being an effective SP.

The Twins will need a veteran Closer for next season if they hope to compete.  Teams that consistently blow leads in the 9th inning are doomed to have a poor season.  The Twins have a LOT of talented arms in the mix for 2026.  How these arms progress and are deployed is crucial.

In the case of teams like the Brewers and Guardian Indians, they seem to have a knack at trading SP at the height of their value when they've become too expensive and either having arms in the minor leagues ready to promote or getting a younger, inexpensive arm back that is able to step in a mitigate the loss of an ace like Corbin Burnes (or both).  

There is a strong likelihood that one of Lopez or Ryan gets traded.  Lopez is the most expensive at $22 million a season but his value is also at it's lowest in years.  The Twins would be selling LOW.  Ryan is the cheaper option, coming off an All Star season.  The Twins would be selling HIGH on Ryan.  They could get back something of far greater value with Ryan as opposed to Lopez.  Both are 30-years old.

Would the Twins rotation be stronger with Ryan, Lopez and Ober as the #1, #2 & #3 to begin the season and let the best men in spring training win the #4 & #5 spots?  Probably.  But the lineup and defense are sorely needing enhancement.  Like the Brewers, the Twins could actually be a better team if Ryan was traded for a solid position player and a young pitcher stepped into Ryan's slot and came close to Ryan's production.  

That's where the Matthews, Bradley, Abel and SWR improvement is vital.

Would the Twins sign Josh Naylor if Pablo was traded?  Would that help the lineup?  It sure would.  Would the Twins trade Ryan to the Red Sox for Jarren Duran?  Would that help the lineup and OF defense?  It sure would. 

What if Ryan was traded for Wilyer Abreu (Gold Glove OF with power),  Payton Tolle (young Red Sox LHP who would be added to the Bradley, Matthews, Abel list to replace Ryan) and Tristan Casas (young, power hitting 1B returning from a knee injury)? OF defense gets MUCH better.  Abreu and Casas add power and depth to the lineup.  Buxton repeats his year, Lewis and Keaschall perform to expectations and 2 of Matthews, Bradley, Abel, SWR and Payton Tolle show improvement and contribute in a positive way?  

I'm not buying the idea that the payroll is going to be cut to $70-$75 million.  I think it will hover around $100 million.  If the new "investors" have any say maybe even slightly higher.  Even a team as down and out as the Twins right now should have a plan to compete in the always winnable A.L. Central.  

 

 

[NYCTK]

Fact of the matter is the Twins minor league pitching was a massive disappointment this year. Their top internal pitching prospect, in MLB pipeline, only pitched 62 innings with a 1.35 WHIP in A+, and their only 50 FV prospect pitched 80 innings with a 1.51 WHIP. There's not much of anything to get excited about down there, and helps explain why the team brought in so much pitching in their sell-off.  

Falvey has failed spectacularly and should have been fired with Rocco after the 2024 season. 

[jmlease1]

2 hours ago, bean5302 said:

Pablo Lopez - Acquired by trading All Star Cost Controlled Infielder who was a prospect Falvey inherited, signed to an extension.
Simeon WR - Acquired by trading All Star Cost Controlled Starter who was an MLB prospect Falvey inherited.
Joe Ryan - Acquired by trading All Star free agent signing Nelson Cruz coming off a season where he earned MVP votes.
Chris Paddack - Dylan Bundy/Chris Archer re-tread type who we apparently don't have in our rotation anymore? Acquired by trading All Star closer Taylor Rogers (inherited) and future All Star cast off Brent Rooker.

So yeah, you can build a pitching pipeline if you have a bunch of All Star surplus players, especially ones you inherited from the previous GM regime that are fueling all your success as a GM.

That's a way to look at it. But let's look at those moves: 

1. Sold high on Arraez, who has been healthy the last 2 seasons but as a 1B/DH has been barely a league average hitter with no defensive value. Even with the injury, Pablo has been better.
2. Sold high on Berrios, who has never been as good for Toronto as he was for MN. Do you think the Blue Jays feel great about paying him nearly $25M per season in '27 & '28? SWR is 7 years younger and has been as good if not better the last 2 seasons...and Austin Martin may have figured it out enough to be a quality LF
3. Sold high on old, free agent-be Cruz and got an eventual all-star back in Joe Ryan. Elite move by any standard
4. Paddack didn't work out great, but Rogers didn't deserve his all-star nod, hasn't been close to be considered for one since. Rooker was such a sure thing that he got dumped by SD and KC before landing in Oakland and figuring it out. Calling Rogers an inherited all-star is technically true, but misleading.

Notably, you skipped past Sonny Gray, who was acquired for Chase Petty: Petty still has time to figure it out, but he's gotten rocked in MLB and AAA so far and maybe already be getting pegged for a transition to the bullpen. I'd say Gray worked out just fine.

But this is how Cleveland and Tampa both do it: they draft, they trade, and they don't sign expensive free agents to start. As noted above: we're not throwing money at Dylan Bundy types any longer.

It hasn't been a rousing success (need more consistency from guys like Matthews, Abel, Bradley, Festa, etc) but we're in much better shape for starting pitching that we were in the early days of the Falvey regime, and far better than Ryan II or Smith.

Pipeline was probably a bad term to use, because people have tagged it as being all about drafting and developing pitching internally only. But it's unquestionably improved.

The lineup side is much much shakier (injuries have played significant parts of it, but there's also high profile busts like Cavaco and Sabato, with far fewer late-round successes to point to) and much more damning

[KirbyDome89]

4 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

You can call it whatever. A pipeline or ham sandwich. You can all debate effective or ineffective. 

I'll just point out that we haven't had to sign Dylan Bundy types in awhile and that's good. If the pipeline or ham sandwich is effective enough to make Dylan Bundy unnecessary... That's good start.  On the offensive side of the ledger... we are trying to survive off of Dylan Bundy types. 

Duran, Jax, Varland are from this pipeline or whatever it is and they brought back 3 starting pitchers which keeps you further from Dylan Bundy. 

Plus they acquired a highly ranked young catcher in Tait and a decently ranked outfielder who are now products of this whatever you want to call it. 

On the other hand... this pipeline or whatever you want to call doesn't seem to be near the Cleveland (trade Beiber, Sewald at the trade deadline... lose Clase to suspension and get better afterwards) level. 

This pipeline doesn't seem to be near the Brewers (trade Corbin Burnes and get better after) level either. 

 

 

 

 

 

Does it really matter if you're getting Bundy type performance in his absence? 

[Coach Rob]

The bias that some of you writers/ reports have is absolutely ridiculous. The amount of disrespect Simeon gets from you guys is just absurd. It’s like you guys don’t factor him into anything that has to do with the Twins rotation. Statistically this year he was in the top two or three in every category. He can do the exact same thing or have performed better than another pitcher and the other guy gets all the praise. It’s crazy. Youngest on the staff but gets the most critique and criticism. We all understand Minnesota has its guys and people that they like in the organization. They should’ve never brought him to Minnesota if they didn’t want him because he could be doing something for a whole different organization and actually getting the respect that he deserves. 

[LyleCole]

13 hours ago, old nurse said:

Berrios in Toronto has had an ERA and FIP over 4 in Toronto. That puts him at about league average. If they guessed right when they traded for Duran. Why not give them the benefit of the doubt on their other young acquisitions?

Because it isn't in doubt.  Jose Berrios had one bad season in Toronto (2023) otherwise he has been a more than average pitcher for them.  Simeon Woods Richardson has been average at best for two partial seasons with teh Twins.  

This trade, even giving benefit of doubt to Twins was a bad trade.  

[DocBauer]

10 minutes ago, LyleCole said:

Because it isn't in doubt.  Jose Berrios had one bad season in Toronto (2023) otherwise he has been a more than average pitcher for them.  Simeon Woods Richardson has been average at best for two partial seasons with teh Twins.  

This trade, even giving benefit of doubt to Twins was a bad trade.  

To be fair, Berrios' combined WAR the past 2 seasons is 3.6.

SWR...who debuted in 2024 minus 2 brief appearances previously...has a combined WAR of 4.2 over the same 2 seasons. 

[jmlease1]

17 minutes ago, LyleCole said:

Because it isn't in doubt.  Jose Berrios had one bad season in Toronto (2023) otherwise he has been a more than average pitcher for them.  Simeon Woods Richardson has been average at best for two partial seasons with teh Twins.  

This trade, even giving benefit of doubt to Twins was a bad trade.  

Why is it a bad trade, when Berrios hasn't been much better than SWR over the past 2 seasons, gets paid a lot more, and the Twins also got Austin Martin who looks like a viable option for LF/4th OF next season? And who would you rather be paying $43M to over the next 2 seasons, Berrios or Lopez?

You're underrating SWR.

Trade hasn't exactly worked out for Toronto; they've won fewer playoff series than the Twins since acquiring Berrios.

[IndianaTwin]

16 minutes ago, DocBauer said:

To be fair, Berrios' combined WAR the past 2 seasons is 3.6.

SWR...who debuted in 2024 minus 2 brief appearances previously...has a combined WAR of 4.2 over the same 2 seasons. 

Also to be fair, Berrios' combined WAR for Toronto in the 1.5 seasons left on the contract was 0.9. The value he has provided to the Jays has primarily come in the time since he signed an extension, which by most accounts was unlikely to happen in Minnesota.

So if you compare Berrios' 0.9 WAR to the 4.2 of SWR (so far) and whatever they get from Martin, the Twins definitely improved themselves with the trade.

Additionally, the trade freed up money to use in the 21-22 offseason. There's no way to trace whether that was the money that paid for Urshela (good), Bundy (bad) or even a chunk of Correa (very good on that one-year contract), but it did give them additional flexibility that winter. Which also highlights that no trade can be completely dissected in isolation. Every trade has a context and a carryover to other decisions. 

[LA Vikes Fan]

15 hours ago, LyleCole said:

I totally agree that any claim of a "pipeline" is fully exaggerated.  Bailey Ober is the only true home grown prospect that has made any real contribution to the starting rotation developed in this leadership.    Cole Sand is a fringe reliever they have developed from a 5th round pick in 2018.

I question their ability to draft pitching and think their reputation that is spread on this site if way over stated.  While they got a 12th round pick in 2017 to be a quality starter with a 9.2 WAR, who else have they drafted.  In the 2017 draft they selected Landon Leach in 2nd, Blayne Enlow in 3rd with a celebrated bonus move, Charlie Barnes in 4th, Widell in 7th, and Faucher in 10th.

(The fact is this regime's entire draft history has been a failure unless you want to count Brent Rooker's 8.8 WAR with the Oakland A's a success especially comapred to 1st overall Royce Lewis'  4.1 career WAR).

They have been somewhat successful in trading minor league pitching talent and other trades, trading first round pick Chase Petty for a couple of years of Sonny Grey (and gettting a comp pick for when Gray left as a free agent).  They identified solid pitching talent in Lopez and Joe Ryan, and Duran.

I will also add that the Twins cheap ownership has hindered them somewhat in development.  The Twins were not going to pay Jose Berrios the market rate for a starting pitcher of his quality (about $15-20 million) so he had to be dumped.  Everyone knows the Twins will dump a player once they cannot control their salary so the return for Berrios seemed better than it was (Martin was the 5th overall pick the year before the trade) but it really has not panned out.  Having a starter like Berrios in the rotation WITH the other guys could have made a huge difference in competitive level.  

But Berrios, like Duran and Jax this season, was dumped because the owners are not going to pay salary to keep a competitive lineup.  Simeon Woods RIchardson is mediocre the past two seasons (Berrios was traded 5 seasons ago) and that is about what we can ask for as Twins fans.

 

I agree with some of this, but I just don't understand the idea that some seem to have here that you have to draft a pitcher for them to be part of a "pitching pipeline". Pitchers you acquire are just as much a part of any pipeline as pitchers you draft. This is baseball, not football. Players move around constantly far before they are ready for the Bigs, and identifying players that you can acquire by trading guys you drafted or acquired in other trades is just as much a part of your pipeline as players you've had since the draft. That's how Cleveland does it, that's how Tampa does it, that's how good teams acquire talent. 

I agree that Falvey has not been great in many ways but this FO gets the credit for adding Lopez, Ryan, Bradley, SWR, Abel, Rojas, etc. to our pipeline. To be fair, acquiring legitimate #1 and #2 starters for a one tool player whose one tool has fallen off and half of season of Nelson Cruz' dotage, and then signing Lopez for what is turning out to be an under market deal, is pretty impressive. I'm not thrilled with some of the more recent acquisitions but I will be proven wrong if the last month or two of SWR is real (acquired with next year's starting LF for a now high salaried guy who is #3 or #4 starter), Bradley becomes a solid #3/#4 starter (acquired for an older late inning reliever on the way down), and guys like Abel and Rojas pan out. I have lots of reasons not to like the Falvey front office but the idea that he hasn't improved the "pitching pipeline" just isn't fair. He has and pretty dramatically. Now if only they could identify hitting talent better, bail on guys who aren't improving, and get in some coaches who can teach fundamentals, we might have something.     

[TwinsDr2021]

6 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

You can call it whatever. A pipeline or ham sandwich. You can all debate effective or ineffective. 

I'll just point out that we haven't had to sign Dylan Bundy types in awhile and that's good.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And they have not made the playoffs in two years. so is it a good thing they haven't signed a Bundy type?

People seem to miss that while Cleveland keeps running out pitchers, but most don't last more than a couple of years., unless they are studs that were brought up at a young age. The Twins have done it similar but there mid 20's starters just don't start off as good as Cleveland's have.  (except Ober)

[TwinsDr2021]

48 minutes ago, jmlease1 said:

Why is it a bad trade, when Berrios hasn't been much better than SWR over the past 2 seasons, gets paid a lot more, and the Twins also got Austin Martin who looks like a viable option for LF/4th OF next season? And who would you rather be paying $43M to over the next 2 seasons, Berrios or Lopez?

You're underrating SWR.

Trade hasn't exactly worked out for Toronto; they've won fewer playoff series than the Twins since acquiring Berrios.

Berrios has pitched 878.33 innings for Toronto, SWR 254.66 and Martin has 438 plate appearances. Not saying it was a bad trade, but digging deeper Toronto has gotten way more out of it, sure at a cost. (Less than 19 million a year) Toronto has made the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years and 5 years ago won 91 games and didn't make the playoffs. When was the last time the Twins won 91 games? (2019)

In case you forgot the Twins won 73 in 21, 78 in 22, 87 in 23, 82 in 24,  and 70 in 25. 

This FO has been an absolute failure!

[old nurse]

1 hour ago, LyleCole said:

Because it isn't in doubt.  Jose Berrios had one bad season in Toronto (2023) otherwise he has been a more than average pitcher for them.  Simeon Woods Richardson has been average at best for two partial seasons with teh Twins.  

This trade, even giving benefit of doubt to Twins was a bad trade.  

Era reflects the team behind him. FIP the last 4 years 4.59. 3.99, 4.72, 4.65.  That is average. It is the benefit of playing on a good team.  Reserve clause went out years ago. The trade was not a massive loss for the Twins. 

[weitz41]

My response to the article title is were you around or paying attention from IDK. 2000 to 2015? It may not be a Cy young winning pipeline. BUT night and day from Radke and WHO? Also, I get it, we see or think about the last few years not the real change from say... 2000 to now.

[Riverbrian]

17 hours ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Does it really matter if you're getting Bundy type performance in his absence? 

In my opinion it matters greatly. The young pitcher will be back next year. Bundy will not. They can take what they learned and apply it the next year to the benefit of the Twins. In the case of Bundy... if he learned anything with those 140 innings that he ate... He applied what he learned to the benefit of the Syracuse Mets the following year. Tarik Skubal started out Bundy like... he got better. I'm watching Bello pitch against the Yankees. He started out Bundy like... he got better. I will take 79 Innings of 5.56 from Zebby Matthews over 140 innings of 4.89 from Dylan Bundy every single time. Same with Festa, SWR, Bradley and Abel. 

15 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

And they have not made the playoffs in two years. so is it a good thing they haven't signed a Bundy type?

People seem to miss that while Cleveland keeps running out pitchers, but most don't last more than a couple of years., unless they are studs that were brought up at a young age. The Twins have done it similar but there mid 20's starters just don't start off as good as Cleveland's have.  (except Ober)

I'm not sure if you have specific players in mind when you say Cleveland pitchers don't last more than a couple of years. 

A broad response to that is. A couple of years is fine. Yes... we all want 6 years of fantastic from young players but we rarely get it. Especially on the mound when injuries are prevalent. Only getting a couple of years is still a couple of years. 

A more specific response. Cleveland trades players before they get expensive or before they reach free agency. They restock rather than lose them for nothing and then they consistently beat us with significantly less payroll year after year after year.

Just imagine having this constant wave of young talent plus an additional 40 to 50 million to spend. We could out Cleveland Cleveland with more money. We could out Milwaukee Milwaukee with more money.

As cheap as we all claim the Pohlads are. We out spent Cleveland and Milwaukee by a considerable amount.

Since 2021... The Twins have spent 275ish million dollars more than Cleveland. Since 2021... Cleveland won 428 games with 3 AL Central titles and the Twins won 390 games with 1 AL Central title and three years of drafting early in those same 5 years. 

 

[LyleCole]

7 hours ago, old nurse said:

Era reflects the team behind him. FIP the last 4 years 4.59. 3.99, 4.72, 4.65.  That is average. It is the benefit of playing on a good team.  Reserve clause went out years ago. The trade was not a massive loss for the Twins. 

Wrong because if we have Berrios in our rotation through those years it would have solidified that rotation throughout.   Berrios has been away for 5 years now and we have had minimal contributions at best from the players we received back in trade.

The other problem with the Berrios trade is it was just pure salary dumping by the Twins ownership and we really have not replaced their contributions of these types of players.

If the front office has shown one skill it is that they could identify reasonable pitching talents developed by OTHER organizations in Lopez and Ryan.  

[LyleCole]

9 hours ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

I agree with some of this, but I just don't understand the idea that some seem to have here that you have to draft a pitcher for them to be part of a "pitching pipeline". Pitchers you acquire are just as much a part of any pipeline as pitchers you draft. This is baseball, not football. Players move around constantly far before they are ready for the Bigs, and identifying players that you can acquire by trading guys you drafted or acquired in other trades is just as much a part of your pipeline as players you've had since the draft. That's how Cleveland does it, that's how Tampa does it, that's how good teams acquire talent. 

I agree that Falvey has not been great in many ways but this FO gets the credit for adding Lopez, Ryan, Bradley, SWR, Abel, Rojas, etc. to our pipeline. To be fair, acquiring legitimate #1 and #2 starters for a one tool player whose one tool has fallen off and half of season of Nelson Cruz' dotage, and then signing Lopez for what is turning out to be an under market deal, is pretty impressive. I'm not thrilled with some of the more recent acquisitions but I will be proven wrong if the last month or two of SWR is real (acquired with next year's starting LF for a now high salaried guy who is #3 or #4 starter), Bradley becomes a solid #3/#4 starter (acquired for an older late inning reliever on the way down), and guys like Abel and Rojas pan out. I have lots of reasons not to like the Falvey front office but the idea that he hasn't improved the "pitching pipeline" just isn't fair. He has and pretty dramatically. Now if only they could identify hitting talent better, bail on guys who aren't improving, and get in some coaches who can teach fundamentals, we might have something.     

Well, that seems to be the definition of pipeline.  Draft--->  Develop.

I would argue that the Twins under this front office have not done that well.

Since 2017 here are the pitchers drafted in the first 4 rounds through 2022

2017  Landon Leach (2)  Blayne Enlow (3m $2 million bonus) Charlie Barnes (4)

2018 none   (Cole Sands 5th round)

2019  Matt Canterino (2)

2020 Marco Raya (4)

2021  Chase Petty (1)  Steve Hajjar (2)  Cade Povich (3)

2022  Connor Prielipp (2)  Andrew Morris (4)

 

Their best move was trading Chase Petty for two seasons of Sonny Gray plus a compensatory pick when Gray left which they used to select Kyle DeBarge.  

 

 

[JDubs]

On 10/1/2025 at 2:07 AM, KirbyDome89 said:

There is no pipeline. It's just a constant churn of names, year after year. This was Falvey's 9th season and Ober is still the only SP this "pipeline," has spit out to post anything other than fringy back end type production. 

You never heard of a dude named Joe Ryan? A fringy pitcher with one good pitch who is now a frontline starter?

[jmlease1]

8 hours ago, LyleCole said:

Wrong because if we have Berrios in our rotation through those years it would have solidified that rotation throughout.   Berrios has been away for 5 years now and we have had minimal contributions at best from the players we received back in trade.

The other problem with the Berrios trade is it was just pure salary dumping by the Twins ownership and we really have not replaced their contributions of these types of players.

If the front office has shown one skill it is that they could identify reasonable pitching talents developed by OTHER organizations in Lopez and Ryan.  

Berrios wouldn't have stabilized anything in 2022; he was bad. Would he have been useful in 2023 & 2024? Sure, but then we wouldn't have had Pablo Lopez because to give Berrios the contract he demanded would have meant there wouldn't have been money for Lopez. In this case it wasn't a pure salary dump, because they actually reinvested the resources, and SWR has done a lot already to replace Berrios' production in the last 2 seasons. And if we hadn't given Berrios the deal, he would have been gone by 2023 and we wouldn't have Berrios or SWR.

You seem bound and determined not to acknowledge SWR's contributions. It's weird.

[Bodie]

On 9/30/2025 at 8:07 PM, KirbyDome89 said:

There is no pipeline. It's just a constant churn of names, year after year. This was Falvey's 9th season and Ober is still the only SP this "pipeline," has spit out to post anything other than fringy back end type production. 

So, you missed the just concluded season???

Ober didn't even make the modest contribution you were looking for... well, maybe way back of the rotation.

Joe Mays production, with the adulation usually reserved for a Radke or Viola!

[TwinsDr2021]

12 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

I'm not sure if you have specific players in mind when you say Cleveland pitchers don't last more than a couple of years. 

A broad response to that is. A couple of years is fine. Yes... we all want 6 years of fantastic from young players but we rarely get it. Especially on the mound when injuries are prevalent. Only getting a couple of years is still a couple of years. 

A more specific response. Cleveland trades players before they get expensive or before they reach free agency. They restock rather than lose them for nothing and then they consistently beat us with significantly less payroll year after year after year.

Since 2021... The Twins have spent 275ish million dollars more than Cleveland. Since 2021... Cleveland won 428 games with 3 AL Central titles and the Twins won 390 games with 1 AL Central title and three years of drafting early in those same 5 years. 

 

Cal Quantrill, Aaron Civale, Zach Plesac, Mike Clevinger, Tanner Bibee, Logan Allen, all have had short term success and have faded almost as quickly. We will see what happens with Williams, Ortiz and Cecconi. Clevinger is the only one to have any real success after a few years (or away from Cleveland) and that was one year with the white Sox. 

Maybe you are right they trade them away before they get expensive, but maybe also they know with how the develop pitchers it isn't likely they sustain any success? 

Is Ober like them? a couple of good years and done, or is is the expectation that he can sustain his success? 

[Riverbrian]

4 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Cal Quantrill, Aaron Civale, Zach Plesac, Mike Clevinger, Tanner Bibee, Logan Allen, all have had short term success and have faded almost as quickly. We will see what happens with Williams, Ortiz and Cecconi. Clevinger is the only one to have any real success after a few years (or away from Cleveland) and that was one year with the white Sox. 

Maybe you are right they trade them away before they get expensive, but maybe also they know with how the develop pitchers it isn't likely they sustain any success? 

Is Ober like them? a couple of good years and done, or is is the expectation that he can sustain his success? 

The Trade of Clevenger alone brought back a haul that is helping them today. 

Cal Quantrill, Josh Naylor, Joey Cantillo, Gabriel Arias, along with Austin Hedges and Owen Miller. 

Josh Naylor has since been traded for Slade Cecconi pitching today. 

Civale was traded for Kyle Manzardo probably batting 4th in the lineup today. 

Logan Allen was acquired when they traded Trevor Bauer. We will see what they do with Bibee in the future but he threw pretty good yesterday. 

Not to mention Beiber who was traded this deadline to the Blue Jays.

Two years a pop can sustain you. 

[Major League Ready]

21 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Berrios has pitched 878.33 innings for Toronto, SWR 254.66 and Martin has 438 plate appearances. Not saying it was a bad trade, but digging deeper Toronto has gotten way more out of it, sure at a cost. (Less than 19 million a year) Toronto has made the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years and 5 years ago won 91 games and didn't make the playoffs. When was the last time the Twins won 91 games? (2019)

In case you forgot the Twins won 73 in 21, 78 in 22, 87 in 23, 82 in 24,  and 70 in 25. 

This FO has been an absolute failure!

The innings Berrios pitched after he would have become a free agent should not be used for comparison.  He was not staying in Minnesota.  He had 250 IPs during the period he would have been under control which is roughly the same as SWR to this point.  

I think it's more accurate to say we signed Lopez on a much better contract with the money saved got SWR and Martin for the next 5 years at low cost.  We will have to see just how productive SWR and Martin are for the next 5 years but this deal looks very good for Minnesota at this point in time.

[TwinsDr2021]

16 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

The innings Berrios pitched after he would have become a free agent should not be used for comparison.  He was not staying in Minnesota.  He had 250 IPs during the period he would have been under control which is roughly the same as SWR to this point.  

I think it's more accurate to say we signed Lopez on a much better contract with the money saved got SWR and Martin for the next 5 years at low cost.  We will have to see just how productive SWR and Martin are for the next 5 years but this deal looks very good for Minnesota at this point in time.

So we can't use the innings Berrios has pitched, but we can say that money went to Lopez? Interesting

[TNtwins85]

On 9/30/2025 at 6:21 PM, Permanent Twins Fan said:

I think Matthews has a high of making the opening day rotation in 2026. He has shown some flashes, and I like him a lot as a pitcher. Mick Abel probably won't be on the opening day roster unless there are some trades or injuries. Aside from his one good start versus Philadelphia, he was pretty bad. I am not denying the upside but he still has stuff to prove, and with a crowded rotation, he might not be one of the top 5 starters as of now, but he will probably get there. Most likely  Kendry Rojas' future with the Twins is as a bullpen arm, along with Priellipp. I am very interested in seeing how it turns out in 2026

Very well spoken. 

[TNtwins85]

On 9/30/2025 at 7:00 PM, tony&rodney said:

Pitching pipeline sounds good but it is nonsensical really. One could go through every single team (not me) and create charts of who is or isn't part of the concept. The 5 starting pitchers for the 2025 Twins were Lopez, Ryan, Ober, Paddack, and Woods Richardson, where 4 of 5 were from other organizations. The end of the 2025 season was 6 guys (Ryan, Ober, Woods Richardson, Bradley, Abel, and Matthews), with 2 of the 6 coming from the Twins organization. 

The Twins do have some nice potential in their pitching. Like many other teams, collect a pile of arms and hope some work out. I'm bullish on the pitching staff but pitching pipeline is just a hook for those who need a reason to read an article.

I would tend to agree. I guess the question maybe should be more geared towards has he made a competent pitching pipeline compared to the rest of the league to merely be average or above average to what he was handed from the previous regime. You all remember. Where every offseason they had to go out and sign a Sidney Ponson, an aging Bartolo Colon, Livan Hernandez, etc just to field a somewhat competent MLB rotation. They had to do that in the beginning but now those types are in house, not 35, and potentially have some upside and possibly a future. I guess my idea of a pitching pipeline is not having to go out and sign those scratch and dent 35 year olds anymore and instead there is a constant stream of 20 something year olds always cycling through. Every so often you get a Ryan or a Lopez but for the most part you’re building your rotation and bullpen with in house guys or guys you traded for and made them better. As opposed to what Terry Ryan would do every year for 2 decades. They haven’t developed a full blown “Ace”, but they haven’t had to sign scrap heap guys either in a while. 

[Major League Ready]

2 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

So we can't use the innings Berrios has pitched, but we can say that money went to Lopez? Interesting

You are twisting to fit a narrative that suits you.  I said you can't lose something you would never have had.  However, if you wish to compare alternatives that did exist, the Twins spent money that could hat is reasonable to compare alternatives that did exist.  They spent the money that would have gone to Berrios on Lopez which is a better contract and they got SWR/Martin as a bonus.  They can't possibly lose this trade at this point but it has the potential to be of significant benefit to the team going forward.

[KirbyDome89]

9 hours ago, JDubs said:

You never heard of a dude named Joe Ryan? A fringy pitcher with one good pitch who is now a frontline starter?

You mean the same Joe Ryan who was immediately inserted in the starting rotation? Are you going to tell me the Twins developed Pablo Lopez next?