Minnesota Twins Pitching Pipeline: Fact, Fiction, and the Future

[KirbyDome89]

6 hours ago, Bodie said:

So, you missed the just concluded season???

Ober didn't even make the modest contribution you were looking for... well, maybe way back of the rotation.

Joe Mays production, with the adulation usually reserved for a Radke or Viola!

Ober had a really nice 2023 and 2024. He was not a fringe back end guy for either of years. 

[TheLeviathan]

I thought in 2023 that this team's pipeline was about to start humming and that the true measure of this FO would be proven - one way or the other - at that point.

But it didn't come to fruition.  We just spent a deadline offloading half the roster and our primary target was starting pitching.  If we had actually built the pipeline we would've been dealing arms for (desperately) needed offensive help.  Instead.....we had to focus on adding more pitching.

The pipeline failed.  It really is time for this front office to go.

[TwinsDr2021]

17 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

You are twisting to fit a narrative that suits you.  I said you can't lose something you would never have had.  However, if you wish to compare alternatives that did exist, the Twins spent money that could hat is reasonable to compare alternatives that did exist.  They spent the money that would have gone to Berrios on Lopez which is a better contract and they got SWR/Martin as a bonus.  They can't possibly lose this trade at this point but it has the potential to be of significant benefit to the team going forward.

I am not saying it was a bad trade, just found it interesting that the Twins traded Berrios in 2021, and signed Lopez to an extension prior to the 23 and that is worth comparing and I am twisting the narrative? but you didn't mention in 2022 they paid Gray 10 million, Archer 3.5, and Bundy 5 (more than Berrios was paid), then after that sh!t show, traded for Lopez, and didn't resign Gray after 23 (not complaining about this) after 23 (who ended up making about 20 million more in those three years)

Just not how sure you can say the money they saved by not signing Berrios translated in Lopez, it feel more like the Twins thought they could use that money on multiple pitchers which didn't work, traded Arraez for Lopez and signed him to an extension. 

If anything can be compared it should be Berrios to the money the Twins spent, the players that were traded and pitchers they got. The Twins will have paid Gray 25 million, Lopez 73 million, Bundy 5, Archer 3.5, SWR <1, traded Petty and Arraez. Got two years of Gray, 4 of Lopez, one of Bundy, 1 or Archer, and YTD of years of Martin and SWR. Chase Petty and Arrez. Still looks like a win. But lets not pretend it came cheap. 

[LyleCole]

On 10/2/2025 at 7:11 AM, jmlease1 said:

Berrios wouldn't have stabilized anything in 2022; he was bad. Would he have been useful in 2023 & 2024? Sure, but then we wouldn't have had Pablo Lopez because to give Berrios the contract he demanded would have meant there wouldn't have been money for Lopez. In this case it wasn't a pure salary dump, because they actually reinvested the resources, and SWR has done a lot already to replace Berrios' production in the last 2 seasons. And if we hadn't given Berrios the deal, he would have been gone by 2023 and we wouldn't have Berrios or SWR.

You seem bound and determined not to acknowledge SWR's contributions. It's weird.

A team with proper ownership would have easily kept Berrios with Lopez, and more.

The Twins are a mediocre at best team because they have cheap owners.  

[KirbyDome89]

On 10/1/2025 at 6:41 PM, Riverbrian said:

In my opinion it matters greatly. The young pitcher will be back next year. Bundy will not. They can take what they learned and apply it the next year to the benefit of the Twins. In the case of Bundy... if he learned anything with those 140 innings that he ate... He applied what he learned to the benefit of the Syracuse Mets the following year. Tarik Skubal started out Bundy like... he got better. I'm watching Bello pitch against the Yankees. He started out Bundy like... he got better. I will take 79 Innings of 5.56 from Zebby Matthews over 140 innings of 4.89 from Dylan Bundy every single time. Same with Festa, SWR, Bradley and Abel. 

Ok, show me the Tarik Skubal clone this org has produced. We don't even need to set the bar that high. In 9 years this vaunted "pipeline," has spit out one (singular) SP who has provided any level of production above what Dylan Bundy gave the Twins. Right now it's Matthews, Festa, SWR, Bradly, and Abel. Before it was Winder, Enlow, Canterino, Varland, Thorpe, ect....

The tl;dr here is that I wouldn't celebrate the lack of Dylan Bundy-esque FA signings until this team can actually, with any sort of consistency, do better than Bundy-esque production at the back end of the rotation. 

[Linus]

I would rather have a good pitching staff rather than worry too much about the method used to acquire said pitchers. However being good at drafting and developing pitchers is an important piece because you don’t have to give up trade assets to acquire them. 

[Coach Rob]

On 10/1/2025 at 11:45 AM, LyleCole said:

Because it isn't in doubt.  Jose Berrios had one bad season in Toronto (2023) otherwise he has been a more than average pitcher for them.  Simeon Woods Richardson has been average at best for two partial seasons with teh Twins.  

This trade, even giving benefit of doubt to Twins was a bad trade.  

The bias that some of you writers/ reports have is absolutely ridiculous. The amount of disrespect Simeon gets from you guys is just absurd. It’s like you guys don’t factor him into anything that has to do with the Twins rotation. Statistically this year he was in the top two or three in every category. He can do the exact same thing or have performed better than another pitcher and the other guy gets all the praise. It’s crazy. Youngest on the staff but gets the most critique and criticism. We all understand Minnesota has its guys and people that they like in the organization. They should’ve never brought him to Minnesota if they didn’t want him because he could be doing something for a whole different organization and actually getting the respect that he deserves. 

[Riverbrian]

On 10/3/2025 at 3:19 PM, KirbyDome89 said:

Ok, show me the Tarik Skubal clone this org has produced. We don't even need to set the bar that high. In 9 years this vaunted "pipeline," has spit out one (singular) SP who has provided any level of production above what Dylan Bundy gave the Twins. Right now it's Matthews, Festa, SWR, Bradly, and Abel. Before it was Winder, Enlow, Canterino, Varland, Thorpe, ect....

The tl;dr here is that I wouldn't celebrate the lack of Dylan Bundy-esque FA signings until this team can actually, with any sort of consistency, do better than Bundy-esque production at the back end of the rotation. 

Ok, show me the Tarik Skubal clone? 

That's your lead? 

No... I don't think I will

I'll post my original post that you responded to that led to you asking me to show the Tarki Skubal Clone? 

On 10/1/2025 at 6:12 AM, Riverbrian said:

You can call it whatever. A pipeline or ham sandwich. You can all debate effective or ineffective. 

I'll just point out that we haven't had to sign Dylan Bundy types in awhile and that's good. If the pipeline or ham sandwich is effective enough to make Dylan Bundy unnecessary... That's good start.  On the offensive side of the ledger... we are trying to survive off of Dylan Bundy types. 

Duran, Jax, Varland are from this pipeline or whatever it is and they brought back 3 starting pitchers which keeps you further from Dylan Bundy. 

Plus they acquired a highly ranked young catcher in Tait and a decently ranked outfielder who are now products of this whatever you want to call it. 

On the other hand... this pipeline or whatever you want to call doesn't seem to be near the Cleveland (trade Beiber, Sewald at the trade deadline... lose Clase to suspension and get better afterwards) level. 

This pipeline doesn't seem to be near the Brewers (trade Corbin Burnes and get better after) level either.

 

Notice the recognition that we don't seem to be near Cleveland or Milwaukee. 

Let me know if I need to keep looking for a Tarik Skubal Clone? 

Can't do better than Dylan Bundy if you keep signing Dylan Bundy.

I'll celebrate the removal of that innings eating obstacle. 

[KirbyDome89]

6 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Ok, show me the Tarik Skubal clone? 

That's your lead? 

No... I don't think I will

I'll post my original post that you responded to that led to you asking me to show the Tarki Skubal Clone? 

Notice the recognition that we don't seem to be near Cleveland or Milwaukee. 

Let me know if I need to keep looking for a Tarik Skubal Clone? 

Can't do better than Dylan Bundy if you keep signing Dylan Bundy.

I'll celebrate the removal of that innings eating obstacle. 

Oof Idk why you're bristling at the mention of Skubal, you brought up the Bundy-esque beginning to his career as a "I'm not saying I'm just saying..." type example, but yeah, totally unfair of me to point out that this FO hasn't come anywhere close to developing an arm of that caliber and Skubal doesn't belong in the conversation. Oh, and if we're revisiting old posts, I did also immediately clarify that Skubal isn't the bar to clear. Maybe that was lost. 

Don't let me stop you from celebrating a new coat of paint on the same flawed house. 

[Riverbrian]

51 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Oof Idk why you're bristling at the mention of Skubal, you brought up the Bundy-esque beginning to his career as a "I'm not saying I'm just saying..." type example, but yeah, totally unfair of me to point out that this FO hasn't come anywhere close to developing an arm of that caliber and Skubal doesn't belong in the conversation. Oh, and if we're revisiting old posts, I did also immediately clarify that Skubal isn't the bar to clear. Maybe that was lost. 

Don't let me stop you from celebrating a new coat of paint on the same flawed house. 

Skubal is merely an example of a pitcher that didn't have the smoothest beginning.

He was mentioned to serve as an example of why it's better to have a young returning pitcher produce Bundy-Esque numbers compared to Dylan Bundy producing Bundy-Esque numbers and then followed by the next Dylan Bundy esque one year contract.  

In no way was I implying that Tarik Skubal is sitting in our current room of arms. Skubal is a pretty amazing talent. 

So Yeah... I bristled at that..

The main issue in our discussion was my mistake. I take full responsibility. 

I know that any time I mention a specific player as an example for the larger point I'm making. The player immediately becomes the focus of the discussion. I know better... I've told myself to stop doing that and yet I did it.

So It's on me.    

 

 

[KirbyDome89]

17 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Skubal is merely an example of a pitcher that didn't have the smoothest beginning.

He was mentioned to serve as an example of why it's better to have a young returning pitcher produce Bundy-Esque numbers compared to Dylan Bundy producing Bundy-Esque numbers and then followed by the next Dylan Bundy esque one year contract.  

In no way was I implying that Tarik Skubal is sitting in our current room of arms. Skubal is a pretty amazing talent. 

So Yeah... I bristled at that..

The main issue in our discussion was my mistake. I take full responsibility. 

I know that any time I mention a specific player as an example for the larger point I'm making. The player immediately becomes the focus of the discussion. I know better... I've told myself to stop doing that and yet I did it.

So It's on me.    

 

 

Ah, must've drawn that name from a hat. Crazy...

[Riverbrian]

24 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Ah, must've drawn that name from a hat. Crazy...

Off the top of my head... Yes my head is crazy though.