NEWS: Twins Agree to Sign Infielder Ty France

[Doctor Gast]

24 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

Not necessarily done, but there's no real use for him on a team with Willi Castro. He has no upside with the bat and we know he can't play the OF. So he's at best a slappy 2B/3B/PR. A fine guy to keep on the 40 man roster and move up and down as needed in the bigs but I don't care in the least that he's losing playing time. In fact, it pleases me. 

 

You prefer HR hitters that hit solo HRs when they don't count & SO when they do. Martin is a hitter that will try to get OB any way he can, turning walks & singles into doubles & triples, doubles into triples & triples into HRs. Causes pitchers to make mistakes so following batters can capitalize on them & spark rallies. He hits RHPs as well as LHPs. A perfect leadoff hitter the Twins can groom if they are smart. The Twins need to find ways to keep him in the lineup, not keep him off. If you don't care about all this, then you're not a Twins fan. He has made some really nice plays in CF but I agree he makes mistakes. I would not be disappointed if he started at 2B & they sent Julien & Lee down to AAA.

[Callup22]

"France’s contract is a non-guaranteed major league deal that places him on the 40-man roster and pays him at a $1MM rate if he breaks camp with the team." From Phil Miller from the Minneapolis Star-Tribune

Maybe this will light a fire under Julien and Miranda where France doesn't even make the 26 man roster to start the year. Nothing wrong with a little competition.

[chpettit19]

21 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

One down year? Alright, I better not see you with any high hopes for Royce then. 

And I don't really disagree with you about Miranda having better odds of being a good hitter. But...that's actually chasing the floor which you're so opposed to. Miranda is still going to get plenty of playing time and there's no guarantee Ty France is even on the roster come April. So...who really cares about the Twins doing what you want and chasing a high risk upside. 

Stranger things have happened? 

Read the next sentence after the "you get one down year with me" sentence and see if you want to stick with that Royce statement. The part about back to back years being the trigger for me no longer trusting a player is pretty key there. I don't trust Royce to stay healthy because he's done it in more than back to back years. He's had 1 "down year" in terms of his numbers. So my hopes for Royce will remain the same as they were before his 1 down year. He struggles this year, and then, as I pretty clearly said, I will no longer think his odds of being great are high.

Miranda still being on the roster doesn't make France not a floor move. That isn't how it works. France has his own odds of raising the ceiling. Miranda being there or not doesn't change that. As I said in an earlier post, it's possible France is good. Maybe he goes Profar on it and is a star. But the odds aren't high. The odds are what makes any move a floor or ceiling move. Adding France isn't suddenly a ceiling move because Miranda is still there. Adding Freddie Freeman would be a ceiling move even though Miranda is still there. Because they're separate odds. The floor you're more describing is simply keeping the team the same vs changing it. Changing the team doesn't automatically mean you're not just further securing the floor without adding to the ceiling. The odds are that this move just further secures the floor while not raising the ceiling one inch.

Who really cares about the Twins doing what any of us want? We're a bunch of strangers on the internet debating sports. 

[purplesoldier4u]

2 hours ago, Twins_Fan_in_NJ said:

Hader, Coulombe, and France. They could have done worse. 

Probably not much worse.

[sweetmusicviola16]

14 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

You prefer HR hitters that hit solo HRs when they don't count & SO when they do. Martin is a hitter that will try to get OB any way he can, turning walks & singles into doubles & triples, doubles into triples & triples into HRs. Causes pitchers to make mistakes so following batters can capitalize on them & spark rallies. He hits RHPs as well as LHPs. A perfect leadoff hitter the Twins can groom if they are smart. The Twins need to find ways to keep him in the lineup, not keep him off. If you don't care about all this, then you're not a Twins fan. He has made some really nice plays in CF but I agree he makes mistakes. I would not be disappointed if he started at 2B & they sent Julien & Lee down to AAA.

Everybody wants to hammer on Martin. I'm not saying he will become an allstar or even a league average player. We don't know yet. But what I did see last April when he was called up was a guy that provided spark. He certainly has some good things in him. But if he is just cast aside into the gutter because of rookie struggles we will never know. My name on here is sweet music for a reason. Frank Viola became a TOR SP. But if we had only judged him on 1982 he may never have. Or he would have done so for another team. Give Martin another chance, he has good upside. Ty France is finished. Harrison Bader is on a slippery downside. That is my opinion Doctor.

[DJL44]

14 minutes ago, Callup22 said:

Maybe this will light a fire under Julien and Miranda where France doesn't even make the 26 man roster to start the year. Nothing wrong with a little competition.

Making decisions based on spring training statistics is usually a bad idea. If you think Julien and Miranda were going to lollygag around spring training but are spurred into maximum effort now that Ty France is around, you're nuts.

[chpettit19]

17 minutes ago, Callup22 said:

"France’s contract is a non-guaranteed major league deal that places him on the 40-man roster and pays him at a $1MM rate if he breaks camp with the team." From Phil Miller from the Minneapolis Star-Tribune

Maybe this will light a fire under Julien and Miranda where France doesn't even make the 26 man roster to start the year. Nothing wrong with a little competition.

They had to lose another player (Helman, Henriquez, or Headrick) to make this "light a fire" move. MLB teams don't give 40-man spots away easily. Certainly shouldn't be waiving guys to "light a fire" under guys as camp starts. If Miranda or Julien weren't going to be busting their butts in camp already the team should know that by now and have moved on from them.

[NYCTK]

22 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

The Twins need to find ways to keep him in the lineup, not keep him off.

They really don't. Especially when he's proven pretty inept at every defensive position he's been placed. Maybe 2B will get better and he's no longer a liability defensively at some point. Until then, he is not even a replacement level MLB player. 

26 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

I would not be disappointed if he started at 2B & they sent Julien & Lee down to AAA.

This is certainly possible, but has nothing to do with Martin and everything to do with their organization wide inability to field a 2B. Eventually, SOMEONE must step up. But I'll bet money against it being Martin. 

[jud6312]

Is it better to leave the bar with two 1s and a 3 at closing time, or the 5 they might've had if they'd opened their wallet a little earlier?

[D.C Twins]

I'm sure the Dodgers were in hot pursuit BUT.....

 

[Brandon27]

Pointless signing dude not guaranteed a spot on the roster 

[Doctor Gast]

2 hours ago, NYCTK said:

Martin was given a huge chance last season and he sucked it up. 

Some cry that 1B is so difficult & so important. I got news for you CF is a heck of a lot tougher & of more importance. To be good at it, you need a lot of MLB coaching, mentoring & experience, no matter if he had some time there before. Veteran Kepler was smart to turn it down because he knows it's not so easy (& that can affect you offensively) as some people think. Rookies don't have that luxury, they say play CF, you play CF ready or not. So he didn't get much of a chance because Margot got it.

[NYCTK]

1 minute ago, Doctor Gast said:

Some cry that 1B is so difficult & so important. I got news for you CF is a heck of a lot tougher & of more importance. To be good at it, you need a lot of MLB coaching, mentoring & experience, no matter if he had some time there before. Veteran Kepler was smart to turn it down because he knows it's not as easy (& that can affect you offensively) as some people think. Rookies don't have that luxury, they say play CF, you play CF ready or not. So he didn't get much of a chance because Margot got it.

Complete hogwash. You think the Twins didn't try to give him instruction in his time with the organization? Are you under the impression coaches aren't present in the minors? 

And completely glosses over the fact that he also sucked in LF. 

He's not an OF. Nothing wrong with that, but that means he's running out of options. It's 2B or bust for him at this point. 

[h2oface]

🤮

[Doctor Gast]

I'd think that he'd be a DH & help out at 1B if need be. That'd affect Larnach, Bader will also affect Larnach, with Emma coming up. I'm afraid of Larnach's playing time will be limited.

[ashbury]

1 hour ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

Gleeman posted these numbers in the writeup on the Athletic today...

Ty France suffered a hairline fracture in his right heel on June 7, 2024 and returned 2 weeks later and hit .220 with a .621 ops in his final 79 games.

Prior to the injury, he was hitting .251 with a .732 ops in 61 games. And that's in Seattle's ballpark for the most part, which gave him a wRC+ of 117. 

IF his heel is healthy, he most likely is closer to the pre-injury version than the after injury version right? That's not crazy to think that. It's not world-changing, but it's also certainly not negative WAR.

Thanks. I was looking in vain for the upside in the signing.

[nicksaviking]

2 hours ago, howeda7 said:

I'm no fan of Falvey, but this being the straw that broke the camel's back seems odd. What could he have done differently only in the last week that would make you feel better?

Doing absolutely nothing would have made me feel better.

It would have made me applaud actually, that was my off season blue print for a transitioning ownership group from the start.

 

[jorgenswest]

There will be injuries and opportunities. The only thing that will stop Miranda or Julien or Larnach from taking the next step and thriving is their own mediocre play.

The frustrating part about signing guys like France is the patience the Twins seem to have with mediocre play from veterans where it feels like there is little hope they will move beyond mediocre.

 

[PseudoSABR]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

He's picking France over Miranda and other internal options, options his organization drafted and coached. 

Another hot take without all the facts.  He's got a 1 million dollar non-guaranteed prove-it-spring-training deal.  

The curmudgeons that incessantly post before the deal is even known make commenting on this board insufferable, even if the site is still informative. 

[ashbury]

56 minutes ago, jud6312 said:

Is it better to leave the bar with two 1s and a 3 at closing time, or the 5 they might've had if they'd opened their wallet a little earlier?

[Mike Sixel]

8 minutes ago, PseudoSABR said:

Another hot take without all the facts.  He's got a 1 million dollar non-guaranteed prove-it-spring-training deal.  

The curmudgeons that incessantly post before the deal is even known make commenting on this board insufferable, even if the site is still informative. 

Name calling awesome. 

[PseudoSABR]

1 minute ago, Mike Sixel said:

Name calling awesome. 

Sounds like an admission of making assertions before facts to me! I'll take it, Mike!

[DocBauer]

I don't like this move. But I also don't hate this move.

This is only a bad move if France is given preference over Miranda as the primary 1B. If he's a backup 1B and does some DH. He's not part of the future, and Miranda might be. SOMEONE has to backup 1B and right now it's see if Julien can do it...maybe he can, I sure hope so...or use Castro as has been suggested in a different OP. I think I even made a brief comment the other day I'd rather have France and at least SOME upside potential at 30yo rather than Rizzo or Turner. So I guess blame me if you don't like this signing.  LOL

To me he's an inexpensive depth flier for a $1M that shouldn't hold anyone back or block anyone. He's a backup to Miranda who might DH a little, and that's it. 

I'm more upset about losing Hendrick for nothing.

[Cory Engelhardt]

37 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Thanks. I was looking in vain for the upside in the signing.

This gif is always a winner

[T.O.]

Hader, and Coulombe, and France, OH MY!
Hader, and Coulombe, and France, OH MY!

Does that make Falvey the Wizard of Ahhs 😒 ?

[ashbury]

26 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

This gif is always a winner

Thanks.  I think.  😀

I think I misused the Dumb and Dumber one a little, this time, because your post did actually spell out a legitimate way that the signing could pan out.  Not likely, but way above one-in-a-million.   Your post clarified some things.

[Riverbrian]

12 minutes ago, DocBauer said:

I don't like this move. But I also don't hate this move.

This is only a bad move if France is given preference over Miranda as the primary 1B. If he's a backup 1B and does some DH. He's not part of the future, and Miranda might be. SOMEONE has to backup 1B and right now it's see if Julien can do it...maybe he can, I sure hope so...or use Castro as has been suggested in a different OP. I think I even made a brief comment the other day I'd rather have France and at least SOME upside potential at 30yo rather than Rizzo or Turner. So I guess blame me if you don't like this signing.  LOL

To me he's an inexpensive depth flier for a $1M that shouldn't hold anyone back or block anyone. He's a backup to Miranda who might DH a little, and that's it. 

I'm more upset about losing Hendrick for nothing.

You are right Doc.

Here comes that right handed hitter I've been waiting for to fill in the last box. 

I don't like it... but I don't hate it completely. It's a million dollar deal... almost like signing a Kyle Garlick. 

1 Million can be cut... if he isn't getting it done... they can shed 1M just like they shed Jay Jackson last year. 

However... the 40 man roster spot that's another animal. Yep... it cost us Headrick. Not sure I like that part. I kinda liked having Headrick in our back pocket but you and I and few others knew this right handed infielder was coming in some shape or form and here he is and somebody was going to make room for it. 

Jumping to further conclusions on this cold February Evening in North Dakota. 

If France makes the club... I think he will that's why he got the 40 man spot instead of the standard minor league deal. If France makes the club... who loses that 26 man spot?

Brooks Lee isn't out of the question. 

 

[ashbury]

9 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Brooks Lee isn't out of the question.

AAA would be my preference for Lee anyway.  He's got some things to work on, both defensively and at the plate.  Started out solid but then the major league opponents seemed to have his number.  Hopefully good instruction in Ft Myers and then a month or two at St Paul gets him headed in the right direction again.

None of which has to do with Ty Flipping France, who I hope wins Comeback Player of the Year but possibly will not.

[Riverbrian]

1 minute ago, ashbury said:

AAA would be my preference for Lee anyway.  He's got some things to work on, both defensively and at the plate.  Started out solid but then the major league opponents seemed to have his number.  Hopefully good instruction in Ft Myers and then a month or two at St Paul gets him headed in the right direction again.

None of which has to do with Ty Flipping France, who I hope wins Comeback Player of the Year.

Agreed... I don't mind Lee in AAA. He's a phone call away... Lee could be the guy who replaces France when they cut his 1 million. 

[Riverbrian]

3 minutes ago, ashbury said:

AAA would be my preference for Lee anyway.  He's got some things to work on, both defensively and at the plate.  Started out solid but then the major league opponents seemed to have his number.  Hopefully good instruction in Ft Myers and then a month or two at St Paul gets him headed in the right direction again.

None of which has to do with Ty Flipping France, who I hope wins Comeback Player of the Year but possibly will not.

More jumping to conclusions on this cold February evening in North Dakota. 

They didn't pay France 1 Million to play every day. He's going to short side if he makes the club.

Here's a question... Who does France Pair with? Julien at DH or Larnach at DH?