Can the Twins Afford to Give Up on Alex Kirilloff?

[Doctor Gast]

Yes Santana's defense is better but he has had forever to perfect it & like Nick said 1B defense doesn't carry much weight. While Miranda, Kiriloff & Julien & has had very time there. Finally, keep Kiriloff & Miranda at 1B & keep them healthy to improve our offense. Trade Julien if we can get good value from him because IMO I doubt he'll return to where he was before the pitchers adjusted to him & when Kiriloff starts showing what he can do, then we can start to think about trading him.

[gregens]

This thread seems like us TD posters just broke into our sister's piggy bank and are trying to divvy up the pennies to buy the cheapest candy we can, even if tastes bad.

[chpettit19]

Still having an option left may be the deciding factor. The Twins still seem to believe in his talent as he tends to hit in the top 3 spots in the lineup. And I can see why they'd believe, because he has stretches where he looks fully healthy and locked in and mashes. But can you trust him to be healthy? I think it's 50/50 he'll be back. And I'm not sure which way I'd go. Depends on what the rest of my lineup looks like.

[David Maro]

Team has 3 players with bad backs in AK,Lee and Miranda.So who will be the first to go down with a injury.The problem with that is you favor one thing and create another.If he has a option left have him start the season in St.Paul.He can play 1st there and some LF to see if he can stay on the field.He has missed significant time,so may need that time.I also think he is not a Major League 1st baseman at this time.

[saviking]

Should they have given up on Larnach ..

[FlyingFinn]

9 hours ago, Kevin Sheehan said:

He "hid" his injury until he was getting optioned. There has to be trust in the employees. To me it's inexcusable.  On top of that the message to all players needs to change. Make an example of him and release him

Not happy he hid his injury. But would you get rid of Joe Ryan, who did the exact same thing in 2023?

[Major League Ready]

The option is key here.  Non-tendering him is selling at rock bottom which is just not necessary here.  Put him in AAA and see how he and the rest of the team comes together.  The upside is much higher than the downside.  It's a somewhat risky investment with high potential returns.

[Mydaughterhastwins]

I just get the feeling that AK is not the only person on the team that is reluctant to communicate with Rocco.  Like many of you I have rooted for this team for decades and I cannot remember feeling that any previous team was as disconnected as this squad.  Having said that, it doesn't take Alex off the hook.  If healthy, he has a tough row to hoe in order to salvage his career.

[Jeff K]

I feel like the original thought was somewhat Santana or Kirilloff.  Youth needs to be served with this team especially in light of the financial direction our billionaire owners have taken.  So, No Santana next year.  I am not sure about Kirilloff simply because we don't have enough information regarding his condition subsequent to the season, what kind of person he is, in terms of work ethic, etc.  My inclination is to try and trade him and failing that, then non-tender.  I think, when in doubt, go with the youngsters.  Miranda at first and the farm system.  

[strumdatjag]

7 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

I look at Rooker as a precautionary example. Kiriloff still has potential.  What does it hurt to hold on for another year?

I think AK has the potential to be another Rooker or at least Randy Bush (mentioned earlier - a backup corner OF who can also play some at 1B and DH). For $1.8 million, AK should be given an off-season to get healthy and let’s see how he is by Spring Training.  If his back and wrists are not getting better, then it’s time to part ways.

All of this presumes the current medical reports don’t show a hopeless situation. 

[LambchoP]

I think if they can get anything back for him in a trade that would truly help us this year then go for it. Otherwise, IF he is actually healthy,give him one more chance to prove he can hit enough to be an everyday player. It would really hurt to release him for nothing and then he instantly turns into another Brent Rooker. We're not signing a new first baseman, so he just has to hit as well or better than Miranda and Julien, maybe Severino in order to have at least a platoon first baseman job. I'd say maybe he could do, but Rocco doesn't use an everyday DH so he'll need to be able to play the field most days.

[Doc Munson]

This is probably about the most obvious  issue the Twins have this off season.  Even at just $1.8M this is a CLEAR NO!!!   if his injury was an elbow, ankle, even shoulder I would say resign him as a longshot chance. But back injuries??? back injuries that take a player out for (almost) an entire season???  Back injuries just do not heal, they are with you for the duration of your career.   And the comp should not be Kirilloff/Santana... it should be Kirilloff/Miranda or even Kirilloff/Julien..  Heck even Kirilloff/Severino, but nto Kirilloff/Santana

[TopGunn#22]

At this point I don't think AK has any trade value.  The other thing to consider is that Santana, who played for 5x the salary AK had is NOT going to be willing to re-sign with the Twins for a discount.  Especially if he wins a Gold Glove.  

Personally, for me, I just can't seem to allow myself to give up on Alex Kirilloff.  THAT SWING....   I think he's eminently worthy of another chance at 1.8 million.  Look, we carried a terribly ineffective Caleb Thielbar at almost twice that salary this past season.  Kyle Farmer for far more.  The payroll blunders this front office made this past season were epic.  

I will agree on this:  This coming 2025 season will be Alex Kirilloff's last chance to make an impact with the Minnesota Twins.  Guys like Emmanuel Rodriguez and Walker Jenkins are just on the edge of the horizon and will be pushing guys like Kirilloff out if he doesn't have a resounding bounce back season. 

This off season has a LOT of questions that need answers.  From whoever will replace Falvey to our managerial approach, our hitting philosophy, player payroll, acquisitions and final roster determinations.  The only thing we know for sure is that the Pohlad family will still own the Twins.

At this point the Pohlad family has lost their fan base.  Maybe they realize this but maybe they are clueless.  After all, David St. Peter is still a part of this mess.  They have fans that want to watch them on TV but who can't.  They are an ownership group who are clearly not universally liked or respected.  Contrast them with the Wilf family who own the Vikings.  

Do they realize this baseball business they operate is at a crossroads?  This off season will be very interesting indeed.  

[GNess]

Not sure what's the best option with AK. I am also unsure as to why so many of the Twins top prospects/young players struggled with some health/injury issues this season. Here is an informal list:

Kirilloff, Miranda, Lewis, Lee, Rodriguez, Larnach, Jenkins, Keaschall - yikes.

[Reptevia]

Well, let’s see, we have a high draft pick who has never lived up to expectations- check. He is injured more than half the time-check. Seems to be a nice guy-check. Given the Twins history, he’s due for a 5-8 year extension at top dollar. 

[RpR]

4 hours ago, TopGunn#22 said:

At this point I don't think AK has any trade value.  The other thing to consider is that Santana, who played for 5x the salary AK had is NOT going to be willing to re-sign with the Twins for a discount.  Especially if he wins a Gold Glove.  

Personally, for me, I just can't seem to allow myself to give up on Alex Kirilloff.  THAT SWING....   I think he's eminently worthy of another chance at 1.8 million.  Look, we carried a terribly ineffective Caleb Thielbar at almost twice that salary this past season.  Kyle Farmer for far more.  The payroll blunders this front office made this past season were epic.  

I will agree on this:  This coming 2025 season will be Alex Kirilloff's last chance to make an impact with the Minnesota Twins.  Guys like Emmanuel Rodriguez and Walker Jenkins are just on the edge of the horizon and will be pushing guys like Kirilloff out if he doesn't have a resounding bounce back season. 

This off season has a LOT of questions that need answers.  From whoever will replace Falvey to our managerial approach, our hitting philosophy, player payroll, acquisitions and final roster determinations.  The only thing we know for sure is that the Pohlad family will still own the Twins.

At this point the Pohlad family has lost their fan base.  Maybe they realize this but maybe they are clueless.  After all, David St. Peter is still a part of this mess.  They have fans that want to watch them on TV but who can't.  They are an ownership group who are clearly not universally liked or respected.  Contrast them with the Wilf family who own the Vikings.  

Do they realize this baseball business they operate is at a crossroads?  This off season will be very interesting indeed.  

Kirilloff is a horrid First Baseman, time to let him fly away.

Poor rookie defense was one reason the Twins faded into a abysmal team; they cannot afford years of pee-poor rookies, hoping for a at least one to be above average.

With the team moves many post here, the Twins will be fighting to stay out of the basement for years.

[JD-TWINS]

18 hours ago, Western SD Fan said:

This may all come down to what Santana is willing to take to resign.  If it is reasonable, maybe you resign Santana with the possibility to trade him during the year for some pitching help.  Even if Kirilloff comes back injured or not playable, you have Miranda, Julien, and likely Castro coming back to fill that spot.  I'm assuming your infield will be Miranda (Santana and/or Kirilloff ), Julien (Lee), Correa, and Lewis with Castro filling in as the super utility man that he should be and not a regular starter.  I would also like to see Lee start in St. Paul to get his confidence back up before coming back to the MLB club unless he really shows improvement in spring training that they can't keep him off the roster.

I just can’t get behind Julien as the #1 option at 2B ……..he seems to have high potential for a “change of scenery” trade piece. His defense is marginal but his offense is below standards the Twins need to set for the Club, IMO. ……..I’m really not a Brooks Lee fan after what I saw at MLB level either. His defense works at 2B ……. I think he provides value at 3B defensively. His bat though, really looks impotent. Routinely, he rolled balls to 2B from the left side and his plate discipline is not very good. As you say, maybe needs 6-10 weeks in St. Paul to get him right and get him hungry to prove himself. I guess they both come to spring Training to compete and Castro is a fallback as needed. Will be interesting to see if Keaschall will be ready to throw in Spring Training - assuming he won’t be a consideration until at least June?

Kirilloff comes to Spring Training to have an opportunity but he may be an affordable trade piece later in the season if he’s not in the regular playing time mix.

I think they need to focus on adding a BAT! A proven, capable guy to DH or play OF or 2B.

Pitching seems stable to me:

Blewett - Funderburk - Headrick - Henriquez - Alcala - Varland - Sands - Topa - Paddack - Jax - Duran……….11 capable bodies in the Pen to start. Lefty with experience is only potential need….,,,a guy to spend on or trade for if possible.

 Canterino healthy enough to help in Pen??? 

Ryan - Ober - Festa - SWR - Lopez

Matthews - Lewis - Morris  (Raya for Pen depth after June)

If this group of pitchers are expected to be healthy……..I think they have enough for ‘25.

 

[RpR]

11 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

I just can’t get behind Julien as the #1 option at 2B ……..he seems to have high potential for a “change of scenery” trade piece. His defense is marginal but his offense is below standards the Twins need to set for the Club, IMO. ……..I’m really not a Brooks Lee fan after what I saw at MLB level either. His defense works at 2B ……. I think he provides value at 3B defensively. His bat though, really looks impotent. Routinely, he rolled balls to 2B from the left side and his plate discipline is not very good. As you say, maybe needs 6-10 weeks in St. Paul to get him right and get him hungry to prove himself.

 

At best, both need to stay in AAA for a Long Time; more practical , cut them loose.

[cmoss84]

14 hours ago, Schmoeman5 said:

Topa? Or is it DeSclafani?

Yes. 

[cjm0926]

Had a thought the other day. Trade Kirilloff and a meh pitching prospect, say Travis Adams to the Angels for Jo Adell. Good chance for change of scenery for both former top prospects. Jo Adell can fill the void of a RHH outfielder, and he mashes lefties, so I think it should be something to at least consider.

[bean5302]

21 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

I look at Rooker as a precautionary example. Kiriloff still has potential.  What does it hurt to hold on for another year?

There is no potential in Kirilloff. Kirilloff is at 884 PA. He is a DH only player .248/.309/.412 wRC+ 99 hitter across those plate appearances. There is nothing in his hitting profile which stands out as a plus. Doesn't get on base because he doesn't take walks. Strikes out a lot. Doesn't have impressive power. Doesn't have an impressive hit tool. What is this "potential" people keep talking about? The fact he could somehow totally transform himself into a hitter he's never shown at the MLB level? Even in his lucky BABIP fueled 2023 campaign Kirilloff was worth an unremarkable 0.6 fWAR. About 1.0 fWAR in a full season.

Brent Rooker only had a 270 PA across 3 years before he broke out with the A's. Teams simply didn't give Rooker a chance.

 

[bean5302]

14 hours ago, saviking said:

Should they have given up on Larnach ..

Not a similar situation. Larnach was pre-arb and had options, plus he's not a complete butcher on defense and plays a more valuable defensive position. Kirilloff's career WAR is 0.0. Literally. Larnach wasn't a great outfielder, but he was probably a 1.5 WAR player in a full year coming into this season.

[Doctor Wu]

On 10/5/2024 at 7:51 AM, Vanimal46 said:

Kirilloff is a clear non-tender IMO. He's too fragile and this team can not afford more injury prone players on the 40 man. 

At some point, with all these various players that can play 1B, in the outfield, or DH, the Twins will need to make some cuts. As you noted, we have far too many injury prone players on our roster. Time to make some hard decisions. 

[Doctor Wu]

8 hours ago, bean5302 said:

Brent Rooker only had a 270 PA across 3 years before he broke out with the A's. Teams simply didn't give Rooker a chance.

Good point, Not only the Twins, but the Padres and Royals cuts him loose relatively quickly before he landed in Oakland and magically became a very productive player. Good in 2023 but very good in 2024. Gotta say I didn't see that coming. 

[Doctor Wu]

17 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

Canterino healthy enough to help in Pen??? 

Man, talk about the invisible man ... what is his status? Will he be able to pitch anywhere next season?

[Doctor Wu]

17 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

I just can’t get behind Julien as the #1 option at 2B ……..he seems to have high potential for a “change of scenery” trade piece.

I'm with you on that idea. He may very well turn into a consistently good hitter, but other than sticking him at DH, where does he play ... and not look too embarrassing?

[jmlease1]

Tough one with Kirilloff. He's shown occasional flashes in MLB, followed by longer periods of ineffectiveness that's always been marked by injury. He's got one of the sweetest swings I've seen in a Twins uniform when he's right, a player who can hit with power to all fields, slashing laser beam line-drives all over the place. He's got good contact skills to go along with it...when he's right.

But he's so rarely been healthy. It does seem like they finally figured out the wrist issues that nearly ended his career, but the back injury just adds one more demerit to his ledger.

If the Twins move on from him, we have to accept that there's no trade value here. He's been far too injured too many times, and has never produced consistently enough in MLB to have any trade value, especially now that he's due arbitration raises. Team control isn't enough of an inducement and the elite promise shown by the way he dominated in the minors is a looooong way away now.

I lean towards moving on, and I'm super bummed about it. I've been a huge Kirilloff stan and I love his bat. But I just don't think we have room on the 40-man for unproven players who can't stay healthy, especially when they're starting to cost more. The option is nice and all, but what difference does it make if he can't play?

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like too many injuries with no end in sight. :(

[DJL44]

11 hours ago, cjm0926 said:

Had a thought the other day. Trade Kirilloff and a meh pitching prospect, say Travis Adams to the Angels for Jo Adell. Good chance for change of scenery for both former top prospects. Jo Adell can fill the void of a RHH outfielder, and he mashes lefties, so I think it should be something to at least consider.

Not a bad idea. Jo Adell can replace Margot for less money but with a better glove.

[bean5302]

Kirilloff has zero trade value. Position players who are going to be non-tendered when you're going to pay them less than $2MM in arbitration do not have trade value. The best you can hope for is an even swap with another non-tender candidate you think you can fix, but the Twins don't have the payroll space to take on even salary. So yeah. If Randy Dobnak was on another team, the Twins could trade Kirilloff for him.

Even cutting Castro, Farmer, Kepler, and Santana will have the Twins at their payroll limit. Taking on a couple million for another non-tender guy

[RpR]

12 hours ago, bean5302 said:

Brent Rooker only had a 270 PA across 3 years before he broke out with the A's. Teams simply didn't give Rooker a chance.

 

Gallo had a great season before the Twins got him; Rooker could be another Gallo so Rooker brouhaha is wishful thinking at this point.