Rocco Baldelli, Derek Falvey Will Return in Their Roles with Twins in 2025

[LastOnePicked]

3 hours ago, In My La Z boy said:

Given the correct points above, why, and for how long can this team, led by these people have a $35M shortstop? Youth movement is here. We went down the stretch w/3 rookies in the starting 5, and most of the 10 in the every day lineup were 1st, 2nd or 3rd yr guys. I would hope Pohlad's pissed about this. Why did we buy the most expensive shortstop only to go down the stretch with no pitching? 

Great questions. I think the answer is this: this organization doesn't have an identity. They don't know what they're planning for or building towards. They signed Correa, which should have suggested that it was time to bolster the roster with established free agents and use the farm system for savvy deadline trades. Create a window of contention, use your assets, bring home a title.

Nope.

The very next year, they treat the offseason as though they're a 100-loss rebuilding club, slashing payroll and relying on unproven rookies and waiver claims to plug huge gaps. And honestly, that would be fine ... if they were a rebuilding club.

They seem like they're trying to do the one thing that NEVER seems to create championship baseball: timidly nibble, put tremendous amounts of hopes in injured players, low-grade free agents and other teams roster cast-offs and stubbornly refuse to make staffing changes when performance is poor. At that point, you're an also-ran. You're the Angels. You're the Pirates. You're a non-threat to great ballclubs. And you lose fans.

[TwinsDr2021]

31 minutes ago, jmlease1 said:

You see what's missing from that long list of players, right? Starting pitchers. 

The team still had talent when Falvey came in (as evidenced by the surge under Molitor), but it was built on fog & mirrors, which was notable when the team went to hell the next season, and there were few reinforcements to be found in the minors.

• Gordon: injury riddled, had one solid season and 3 dreadful ones.
• Gonsalves: couldn't make the leap past AAA
• Romero: imploded
• Kirilloff: never healthy again after his breakout in 2018

I mean yikes. That was supposedly the best we had. How did Jay, Diaz, Stewart, Javier, Burdi, Palka, etc do?

Am I missing the current starting pitchers? Yes, they have been good at trading for starters (Odo, Ryan, Maeda (1 year) and Lopez and SWR?) besides Ober where are the rest? Sure Festa and Matthews pitched this year, but are they different than Meija, Romero and Jorge? We don't know yet. (maybe Raya or Morris but doesn't every team have prospects that are hyped to be a solution?)

How about the pen? they used Escobar and Pressly to get Alcala and Duran again deccent to good trades, Jax is from the previous and that leaves Sands.

The reasons/issues the Twins of 21,23 and 24 are basically the same issues the prior FO (Who I am not saying was good) had, they haven't been able to develop starting pitchers.

One thing this FO has had the old one didn't? Bigger payrolls

we will see if this list ends up being any better https://www.mlb.com/prospects/twins

I sure hope so!

Also remind me again who have they drafted that has turned into an all star (7 drafts prior to this year)

[LastOnePicked]

12 hours ago, gregens said:

Disappointment is just part of being a life-long Twins fan.

This is the one thing I wish I could change about our collective mindset as fans. This wasn't disappointment; this was malpractice.

I have no problem with disappointment in baseball. 29 MLB fanbases will fall short of the big championship dream. 18 will find themselves watching the playoffs from the outside. The smaller market teams will always feel this brunt more than the elites. That's understood. No cause for anger.

When you have an organization that has underspent in the lean years, but refuses to overspend in the contention-window years, that's more than disappointing. 

When you lose critical games with incredibly poor fundamentals, that's more than disappointing.

When you have epic late-season collapses, that's more than disappointing. It suggests a real problem with team culture. 

If the Twins had lost their season to a juggernaut team, watching a Ryan Jeffers screaming liner find the glove of a diving infielder, who fires to second, narrowly nabbing the lead runner for a stunning double play. That would be disappointing, yes. Popping up a bunt to the hapless Marlins, who catch a slumbering Santana off of second base? Dropping from 95% playoff odds to 0% in about five weeks? All of this might suggest more than disappointment.

 

[jmlease1]

2 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

The reasons/issues the Twins of 21,23 and 24 are basically the same issues the prior FO (Who I am not saying was good) had, they haven't been able to develop starting pitchers.

the biggest issue the Twins had in 2022 & 2024 were injuries. 2023 was a successful year unless you're a "world series or you're fired" kind of person: won the division, won a playoff series.

I think the FO is showing they can develop starting pitching (which for me goes beyond just drafting a guy and having him make it to the majors). They ID'd Joe Ryan & Pablo Lopez as trade targets and long-term solutions to the rotation. The acquired and developed SWR (who had a solid season and was desperately needed), drafted and developed Ober (clearly he'd been on the team's radar before falvey & levine arrived, but they still pulled the trigger and the development work was excellent), and now we have Festa, Matthews, Raya, Morris, Nowlin, Lewis, etc in the upper minors to sort through. Some of those guys are going to flame out and/or get dealt...but someone like Festa has a lot of better chance to succeed than a Meija or Romero.

they're not perfect by any means and they need to recalculate how much injury risk they can take on again, IMHO. And there should be a reevaluation of their pinch hitting strategies, I think: they're jumping on the platoon advantage aspect to get away from a LH v LH matchup too early in the game leaving the bench thinner at the end and a lesser hitter getting more late game ABs. While I can support the strategy of deploying a pinch hitter earlier to increase the impact by striking earlier in the game, they seem to be overusing it. they probably need to look at what they're doing defensively as well to ensure we're stronger there, and they appear to be a little behind on utilizing the running game to their best advantage.

but at the end of the day, players have to play and I'm not going to bash Rocco or even the FO too much for Miranda, Castro, Lewis, Jeffers, Julien, and Lee not being able to hit water if they fell out of a boat for the entire month of September...

[TwinsDr2021]

1 hour ago, jmlease1 said:

the biggest issue the Twins had in 2022 & 2024 were injuries. 2023 was a successful year unless you're a "world series or you're fired" kind of person: won the division, won a playoff series.

I think the FO is showing they can develop starting pitching (which for me goes beyond just drafting a guy and having him make it to the majors). They ID'd Joe Ryan & Pablo Lopez as trade targets and long-term solutions to the rotation. The acquired and developed SWR (who had a solid season and was desperately needed), drafted and developed Ober (clearly he'd been on the team's radar before falvey & levine arrived, but they still pulled the trigger and the development work was excellent), and now we have Festa, Matthews, Raya, Morris, Nowlin, Lewis, etc in the upper minors to sort through. Some of those guys are going to flame out and/or get dealt...but someone like Festa has a lot of better chance to succeed than a Meija or Romero.

they're not perfect by any means and they need to recalculate how much injury risk they can take on again, IMHO. And there should be a reevaluation of their pinch hitting strategies, I think: they're jumping on the platoon advantage aspect to get away from a LH v LH matchup too early in the game leaving the bench thinner at the end and a lesser hitter getting more late game ABs. While I can support the strategy of deploying a pinch hitter earlier to increase the impact by striking earlier in the game, they seem to be overusing it. they probably need to look at what they're doing defensively as well to ensure we're stronger there, and they appear to be a little behind on utilizing the running game to their best advantage.

but at the end of the day, players have to play and I'm not going to bash Rocco or even the FO too much for Miranda, Castro, Lewis, Jeffers, Julien, and Lee not being able to hit water if they fell out of a boat for the entire month of September...

2023 is the reason I said they deserved another year (in many previous posts). I said last year they had to make the playoffs for the FO to stay and win a series for Rocco to stay. (It is worth pointing out 23's payroll was around 20 million more than it had ever been) I haven't like Rocco since 2019 but thought he earned another year, but after this year I believe he needs to go. I am not for firing this front office for some of the points you made. I am also not going to pump up this FO  either. I think they have done a good enough job to get another year to see if their prospects turn out (Lewis, Festa, Matthews, Lee, Julien and others) IMO a new manager even if given the same requirements as Rocco would go along way to the players and the fans. I have three friends with season ticket packages that aren't renewing solely because they aren't going to fire Rocco and two of the three have been apologists for him.  My original point was this FO didn't walk into a bare cupboard, it was considered the best available job at the time because of the young guys (Who were actually young) and a deep system.

[karcherd]

6 minutes ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

Determine the mean of where we fit in with the MLB franchises based on population, then use that mean to slot us into a budget.  Review the numbers every year and adjust the budget accordingly.  I.e. spend exactly according to market size.

This is a pretty narrow view and not realistic.  So you want the Twins to just spend to a certain if there are not needs.  Just like when we signed Donaldson, wasn't really a need but they money available so they spent it.  And is this front office able to identify the correct players to spend on, the last two years they have not done a job on allocating the resources given to them.

[Road trip]

2 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

 

Also remind me again who have they drafted that has turned into an all star (7 drafts prior to this year)

Brent Rooker.  Whoops, maybe we shouldn't count him in their credit line. 😝

[TheLeviathan]

35 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

My original point was this FO didn't walk into a bare cupboard, it was considered the best available job at the time because of the young guys (Who were actually young) and a deep system.

I think the rest of your post is very reasonable, but I have to ask: are you seriously arguing that a minor league system headlined by Nick Gordon, Gonsalves, and the rest of those names I don't want to read....qualify as a "deep" farm system?

Our organization was a wreck man.  That doesn't give them a blank check by any means. The pitching development has not come along as fast as it should've, but they were trying to transform a Model T into a Tesla.  System wide.  

I'm on the edge of saying that we should probably let them go.  They are doing the opposite of what I think is wise from a value standpoint(building up hitters that they trade for pitchers, rather than building up a deep stable of pitchers they deal for hitters), but I can't be anything other than appreciative for the work they've done to drag us from bleak times of ten years ago.

[Paul M]

Very disappointing. I think I’ll become a White Sox fan!

[LastOnePicked]

18 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Firing Rocco doesn't solve anything.

With much respect, you don't know this. Roster construction is very important, you're right. But the way a leader communicates, encourages and develops talent matters. It may solve some things. It may lead to improved fundamental baseball. That could certainly be worth 3-5 games a year. We know that makes a difference.

At this point, it's worth putting this question to the test. Especially if the FO philosophy remains the same.

[Major League Ready]

1 hour ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

Determine the mean of where we fit in with the MLB franchises based on population, then use that mean to slot us into a budget.  Review the numbers every year and adjust the budget accordingly.  I.e. spend exactly according to market size.

Market size might be relevant to earnings capacity but market size won't pay the bills.  Why would you look to a different measure than income to determine spending ability?  If they ranked 15th in revenue, they should rank at least 15th in spending on average.  Obviously, this can fluctuate based on a number of factors.

[Linus]

37 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

I think the rest of your post is very reasonable, but I have to ask: are you seriously arguing that a minor league system headlined by Nick Gordon, Gonsalves, and the rest of those names I don't want to read....qualify as a "deep" farm system?

Our organization was a wreck man.  That doesn't give them a blank check by any means. The pitching development has not come along as fast as it should've, but they were trying to transform a Model T into a Tesla.  System wide.  

I'm on the edge of saying that we should probably let them go.  They are doing the opposite of what I think is wise from a value standpoint(building up hitters that they trade for pitchers, rather than building up a deep stable of pitchers they deal for hitters), but I can't be anything other than appreciative for the work they've done to drag us from bleak times of ten years ago.

They inherited a good young lineup that was the basis for success in 17 and 19. The bigger question is who cares?  Falvine will be entering their 9th season. The statute of limitations on blaming Terry Ryan has long since expired. 

[KirbyDome89]

19 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

What exactly about Falvey don't you like? He's the engineer, the one saying things like, 'We need to strike out less and get on base more.' Or 'We need to improve our pitchers strikeout rates.' And 'Math is free, let's use it instead of just guessing.'

Seems pretty much every year this team at minimum attempts to change the things that didn't work the year prior. St. Peter, Levine and Baldelli seem to want to do the same thing year after year after year and I'd hold them way more accountable than Falvey. I don't find him faultless, but those faults tend to stem from him not firing those below him. And if ownership won't pay for two managers next year, which is believed but will never be confirmed, there's not much he can do about that.

I'm OK replacing him, but he has done way more modernizing this organization after the Terry Ryan era and I have zero desire to go back to being the team that only follows trends five years after every other team does.

So Falvey continues to update/improve the system but it's Levine and Baldelli ******* up the implementation year after year, and now Falvey is forced to retain both? That feels like a massive stretch, and some serious cover for Falvey.

[TheLeviathan]

10 minutes ago, Linus said:

They inherited a good young lineup that was the basis for success in 17 and 19. The bigger question is who cares?  Falvine will be entering their 9th season. The statute of limitations on blaming Terry Ryan has long since expired. 

Well, the entire line of conversation started because the implication is 8 years is a long time.  And it can be....but it's hard not to subtract 2-3 of those years because of just how putrid the organization's talent pool was when they took over.  Yeah, they had some guys at the major league level but you can't look at that 2017 list of top prospects and do anything other than cringe.  The farm system was really, really bad.  Organizational philosophies and outdated practices were really bad.  They were essentially starting over below the big league roster, especially on the pitching side.

As I said, I think they've been a bit slower than I'd like to get the pitching pipeline figured out and they've made some really bad trades.  Replacing them is getting pretty easy to justify.  I can also acknowledge that the organization is FAR healthier now than it was when they took over.

[chpettit19]

42 minutes ago, LastOnePicked said:

With much respect, you don't know this. Roster construction is very important, you're right. But the way a leader communicates, encourages and develops talent matters. It may solve some things. It may lead to improved fundamental baseball. That could certainly be worth 3-5 games a year. We know that makes a difference.

At this point, it's worth putting this question to the test. Especially if the FO philosophy remains the same.

Define "fundamental baseball." The front office believes in emphasizing the things Rocco emphasizes, leading the clubhouse the way Rocco leads the clubhouse, managing in game decisions the way Rocco manages in game decisions. Why would you think they'd hire someone who'd emphasize different things, run the clubhouse differently, or manage in game decisions differently?

The way I see it, there's 2 possible situations at play here. 1. The front office wants a guy who does things the way Rocco does like they say they do. So firing him doesn't make a significant difference. Or 2. They're not allowed to fire him and this is all moot anyways.

My point is, they've been very outspoken about their support of Rocco and how he does things. Why would anyone think they'd bring in someone who'd do things drastically differently when this seems to be pretty clearly how they believe in doing things?

[Schmoeman5]

17 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

 But the pinch hitting and platoon stuff is a belief in large scale analytics saying lefties are bad at hitting lefties, not THESE lefties are bad at hitting lefties. 

And that's why I have a problem with it. They're broad, general beliefs in a general strategy with nowhere near enough emphasis on the actual players themselves and their performance in the current season. Once August roles around the analytics and decisions need to be based on this season. Like Margot and his pinch hitting. Your plan with this player didn't work. Don't let them set an all-time negative record. Adjust your plan.

I saw on Friday night, game 160 that Orioles rookie Cowser was playing in his 152 game. LH hitter. Obviously he didnt have much experience facing LH pitchers at the major league level before this year. Same for G Henderson last year. So not every team is following that same trend. There is probably a sizeable disparity in their splits but not large enough to bench them every time the O's face a lefty.

[Woof Bronzer]

20 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

What exactly about Falvey don't you like?

For me it's the poor performance.  Missed playoffs 3 of last 4 years, including 2 epic collapses.  All told, 1 ALDS game win in 8 years.  Results matter.

[TwinsDr2021]

2 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

I think the rest of your post is very reasonable, but I have to ask: are you seriously arguing that a minor league system headlined by Nick Gordon, Gonsalves, and the rest of those names I don't want to read....qualify as a "deep" farm system?

After the fact, I agree they weren't great, but there are still quite a few playing in the majors, heck one has just set the record for winning a batting title with three different teams and one just won 15 games as a rookie.

 I am talking about the time. Maybe ERod is always hurt, Jenkins flames out and Festa and Matthews never work out. I hope they all end of hall of famers, but to pretend saying a system that was ranked fairly high that failed is better, worse of even with the system that is still unproven is better is a fools errand.

[bean5302]

Lots of 20/20 hindsight rebuilt into "I knew it all along" in here while also knowing the current prospects are made of gold and guaranteed!

2016 - Buxton #2, Berrios #19, Kepler #44, Tyler Jay #60, Nick Gordon #91, Jorge Polanco #97

Plus recent graduates or top 100s from 2015 Miguel Sano #11, Alex Meyer #29, Kohl Stewart #36, 

Plus other pre-Falvey regime prospects who hit top 100 status
Alex Kirilloff #9 in 2019
Stephen Gonzalves was #78 in 2018
Fernando Romero was #68 in 2018

Then there were the exited fanbase around here at TD with can't miss starting pitching prospects from the Falvey draft/acquisition process. Blayne Enlow, Brusdar Graterol, Jhoan Duran, Jordan Balazovic, Lewis Thorpe, Matt Canterino, Josh Winder, Simeon Woods Richardson, Connor Prielipp, Louie Varland. There was tons of hype around each one of those guys. They were all practically money in the bank.

The only one of those guys to potentially pan out as a legitimate starter is Sim. Prielipp is a maybe that could work out. If you're thining, what about Ober? He never even appeared on the Twins top 30 organizational prospects lists. Joe Ryan? Wasn't in Tampa's top 10 when he was traded.

 

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, KirbyDome89 said:

So Falvey continues to update/improve the system but it's Levine and Baldelli ******* up the implementation year after year, and now Falvey is forced to retain both? That feels like a massive stretch, and some serious cover for Falvey.

I'm definitely not covering for him and I'm not claiming he's improved anything. I'm not even saying they should keep him. Just that he seems interested in changing what didn't work in prior seasons. Like in 2023 when the team swung for the fences but led the league in strikeouts. This year they did neither. Not really an upgrade, but a clear attempt to change things. Which is better than doing the same thing that fails over and over again.

From what I can tell, Levine still loves the zero ceiling player acquisitions and Baldelli has managed the team the same way he has since he got here.

[TheLeviathan]

2 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

After the fact, I agree they weren't great, but there are still quite a few playing in the majors, heck one has just set the record for winning a batting title with three different teams and one just won 15 games as a rookie.

 I am talking about the time. Maybe ERod is always hurt, Jenkins flames out and Festa and Matthews never work out. I hope they all end of hall of famers, but to pretend saying a system that was ranked fairly high that failed is better, worse of even with the system that is still unproven is better is a fools errand.

Well, on the entire page of about 40 guys I only counted 5.  That includes Ben R. as a backup catcher and 13 games in the big leagues by Goodrum this year.  That list is really, really bad man.

I agree there is some proving to do though.  This group that is on the cusp has to hit, if we're not seeing E-Rod hitting well and Festa/Matthews/Varland/SWR/etc taking the next step (among many others) next year....then it's time to move on.

I will say this with about 99% certainty though: Whenever Falvey gets fired, whoever takes over for him will have a FAR less daunting task ahead of them than he did.

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, Schmoeman5 said:

I saw on Friday night, game 160 that Orioles rookie Cowser was playing in his 152 game. LH hitter. Obviously he didnt have much experience facing LH pitchers at the major league level before this year. Same for G Henderson last year. So not every team is following that same trend. There is probably a sizeable disparity in their splits but not large enough to bench them every time the O's face a lefty.

Max Kepler was brutal against lefties through 2017. The last couple years he was the only lefty who got to face same handed pitching because he got to work it out in those early years. 

Even if everyone is ready to give up on Julien, Kiersey and Kirilloff, not giving Wallner and Larnach the chance to learn that skill, particularly in a lost season, could come back to haunt them.

[ashbury]

6 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

The modernizing was a HUGE aspect.  But.....you think this was a stocked minor league system?

https://www.minorleagueball.com/2016/11/8/13555840/minnesota-twins-top-20-prospects-for-2017

We have very different definitions of what "good" would be then.

LOL:

OTHER GRADE C+ Prospects: Luis Arraez, 2B; Akil Baddo, OF;...

[LastOnePicked]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

Why would anyone think they'd bring in someone who'd do things drastically differently when this seems to be pretty clearly how they believe in doing things?

I don't think they'd bring in someone who'd do things drastically differently, you're right. But I hope they would. I advocate that they would. I darn near demand they should. I'd actually think they'd want someone who could make their "system" work with players. If they have a winning formula in the executive suite, it's getting lost in translation.

And I believe from experience that despite any executive philosophy, managers within an organization can make a huge difference. I've been a part of amazing departments for organizations with failing philosophies, all because the managers of those departments were just smart and wise.  What people say and do matter. It's why some managers end up in the hall of fame.

 

[chpettit19]

2 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

I don't think they'd bring in someone who'd do things drastically differently, you're right. But I hope they would. I advocate that they would. I darn near demand they should. I'd actually think they'd want someone who could make their "system" work with players. If they have a winning formula in the executive suite, it's getting lost in translation.

And I believe from experience that despite any executive philosophy, managers within an organization can make a huge difference. I've been a part of amazing departments for organizations with failing philosophies, all because the managers of those departments were just smart and wise.  What people say and do matter. It's why some managers end up in the hall of fame.

 

Yeah, I just don't think it's getting lost in translation. I think it's just a flawed system that leads to flawed rosters with flawed execution and flawed results. That's why the change I want to see is at the top. It's Falvey and Levine's system. It's their strategy. It's their plan. If you keep running cheap, dumpster diving bullpens out there they're going to continue to struggle no matter who the manager is. If you keep rostering multiple short-side platoon bats you're going to continue to struggle for long chunks of the season when they're inevitably forced to face more righties than lefties due to injuries and ineffectiveness. If you're going to continue to bring in lesser talented players because you can control them for more years and believe you can mix and match perfectly to get more out of them than their talent will allow you're going to continue to struggle to produce talented results no matter who the manager is. You cure an illness at the source, not by ridding yourself of symptoms. The (fixable) problems with the Twins start with Falvey and Levine. Until you replace them it's just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, in my opinion.

And we're just going to have to agree to disagree on baseball managers making a huge difference. Why does Tom Kelly have 2 World Series rings but a career winning percentage under .500 and twice as many losing full seasons as winning full seasons? Talent wins. But I understand people disagree with that. We're just not going to see eye to eye on it, and that's all good.

[Mike Sixel]

14 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Yeah, I just don't think it's getting lost in translation. I think it's just a flawed system that leads to flawed rosters with flawed execution and flawed results. That's why the change I want to see is at the top. It's Falvey and Levine's system. It's their strategy. It's their plan. If you keep running cheap, dumpster diving bullpens out there they're going to continue to struggle no matter who the manager is. If you keep rostering multiple short-side platoon bats you're going to continue to struggle for long chunks of the season when they're inevitably forced to face more righties than lefties due to injuries and ineffectiveness. If you're going to continue to bring in lesser talented players because you can control them for more years and believe you can mix and match perfectly to get more out of them than their talent will allow you're going to continue to struggle to produce talented results no matter who the manager is. You cure an illness at the source, not by ridding yourself of symptoms. The (fixable) problems with the Twins start with Falvey and Levine. Until you replace them it's just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, in my opinion.

And we're just going to have to agree to disagree on baseball managers making a huge difference. Why does Tom Kelly have 2 World Series rings but a career winning percentage under .500 and twice as many losing full seasons as winning full seasons? Talent wins. But I understand people disagree with that. We're just not going to see eye to eye on it, and that's all good.

Imagine Twins Daily between 87 and 91.....

[Mike Sixel]

9 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Imagine Twins Daily between 87 and 91.....

They'd be calling for everyone to be fired after 1990

[mrcharlie]

On 9/29/2024 at 1:04 PM, LastOnePicked said:

Well, there you go.

I mean, I don't expect much at this point, but I thought they might want to let the dust settle for a week or two, at least give the illusion that this collapse was serious enough (the second epic late-season collapse in three years, for those who may have forgotten) to warrant consideration of making a change.

Nope. Same old, same old. If you were running an organization in which winning was a priority, you would never manage personnel like this. Never.

By all accounts, Rocco is a fundamentally decent human being. He takes his work seriously and he conducts himself admirably. I'm glad they don't denigrate him, toss him under the bus or speak ill of him. But he is not a leader of men. His players too often struggle to live up to potential. His teams are prone to collapse and complete mental lapses on the field and on the bases.

We have had plenty of time now to fully and fairly evaluate Rocco Baldelli as a manager. He's cycled through numerous rosters, been gifted payrolls and prospects far beyond anything his predecessors ever had. And he has failed to get the most of his teams, failed to get this organization to the next level. Over and over again, failure.

Rocco has failed, but he will be back. Fans who would like to see a title in Minnesota probably won't be.

 

What says it all is, Rocko "is not a leader of men.".

[mrcharlie]

40 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Yeah, I just don't think it's getting lost in translation. I think it's just a flawed system that leads to flawed rosters with flawed execution and flawed results. That's why the change I want to see is at the top. It's Falvey and Levine's system. It's their strategy. It's their plan. If you keep running cheap, dumpster diving bullpens out there they're going to continue to struggle no matter who the manager is. If you keep rostering multiple short-side platoon bats you're going to continue to struggle for long chunks of the season when they're inevitably forced to face more righties than lefties due to injuries and ineffectiveness. If you're going to continue to bring in lesser talented players because you can control them for more years and believe you can mix and match perfectly to get more out of them than their talent will allow you're going to continue to struggle to produce talented results no matter who the manager is. You cure an illness at the source, not by ridding yourself of symptoms. The (fixable) problems with the Twins start with Falvey and Levine. Until you replace them it's just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, in my opinion.

And we're just going to have to agree to disagree on baseball managers making a huge difference. Why does Tom Kelly have 2 World Series rings but a career winning percentage under .500 and twice as many losing full seasons as winning full seasons? Talent wins. But I understand people disagree with that. We're just not going to see eye to eye on it, and that's all good.

Re: Kelly.  He got the most out of his roster because he would put them in a position to succeed.  He got clutch performances out of Laudner and Bush, for instance while they struggled to hit consistently.  I believe they had confidence when it mattered as a result of Kelly not putting them in spots.  However, to see Rocco keep pinch-hitting with Margot and calling on Theilbar or others when their body language said,  "yipes!" 

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, mrcharlie said:

Re: Kelly.  He got the most out of his roster because he would put them in a position to succeed.  He got clutch performances out of Laudner and Bush, for instance while they struggled to hit consistently.  I believe they had confidence when it mattered as a result of Kelly not putting them in spots.  However, to see Rocco keep pinch-hitting with Margot and calling on Theilbar or others when their body language said,  "yipes!" 

Kelly literally lost more games than he won. This board would be screaming for his head.