Twins 3, Guardians 4: Griffin Jax Goes from Hero to Goat, Offense Goes Silent After Early Flurry

[knothole61]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

I just don't get what happened to the run scoring for this team. 

I haven't done a statistical deep dive, but off the top of my head (and forgive me if I state the obvious) until recently the Twins were missing Correa and his .906 OPS, and Buxton and his .863 OPS, while Castro, Lee, and Lewis have experienced extensive slumps--and then there was that whole Julien thing!  

[glunn]

3 hours ago, BH67 said:

From Nate's summary:

"What is unfortunate about this game is that the loss will be pegged on López and Jax, when, in reality, they were just unable to work within margins for error left too fine by the rest of the team. It is the road to October, and when the Twins haven't been playing well as a team, it makes these moments bigger than they should be."

Then why call Griffin Jax a goat in the headline? The mood around here appears to induce seppuku. Please don't exacerbate it.

These articles are written on a deadline, and the definition of "goat" " seems subjective. 

My sense is that even the greatest players can have a "goat" moment.

[Blyleven2011]

3 hours ago, tampatwins said:

I’m holding out hope that they’ll sneak in, but man they really didn’t have to make it this interesting 

Interesting , it's pathetic , pitiful and piss poor baseball  ...

I hope  you get your hope !!!!

[h2oface]

5 hours ago, jkcarew said:

Cleveland’s pen…zero runs allowed in 7+ innings…using primarily their B-team.

The best bullpen in baseball…2 runs allowed in 1+ innings…using their best reliever.

That’s where these two clubs are right now. You can look at Cleveland and say they’re really not that good. The lineup sure doesn’t say powerhouse. But, they just PLAY BETTER BASEBALL than the Twins.

I thought we we the best bullpen in MLB! 😇

[howeda7]

I almost don't want them to make the play-offs. They don't deserve it, likely won't win a game, and this organization deserves to lie in the bed it made and take a hard look at itself. 

[Fezig]

I've seen some pretty big breakdowns before, but this team is pushing to be the biggest in my time. The thing is I'm not surprised, and it's not even because of the nameless guy that leads in the clubhouse. If a professional team is going to have a colossal choke, why wouldn't it be one from Minnesota? 

[Peter]

2 hours ago, howeda7 said:

I almost don't want them to make the play-offs. They don't deserve it, likely won't win a game, and this organization deserves to lie in the bed it made and take a hard look at itself. 

Totally disagree with you!!!! This would be the worst thing to happen-the big city national media won’t ever let the state of Minnesota live it down!!! Thais can’t happen!!! That’s why it’s so so so important twins get in playoffs!!!

[Peter]

9 minutes ago, Fezig said:

I've seen some pretty big breakdowns before, but this team is pushing to be the biggest in my time. The thing is I'm not surprised, and it's not even because of the nameless guy that leads in the clubhouse. If a professional team is going to have a colossal choke, why wouldn't it be one from Minnesota? 

NO WAY!!!! Twins have to make playoffs!!!

[Riverbrian]

8 hours ago, NYCTK said:

This playoff "chase" is just a reminder that mlb screwed up by expanding the playoffs. No one wants to watch the Twins or Tigers in the playoffs. We are a team that should be 5 games back, not 2 games back. 

I want to watch the Twins in the playoffs. 

[CRF]

The prevent offense is gonna doom this team. It's just not going to happen. They will miss the dance. 

[NYCTK]

21 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

I want to watch the Twins in the playoffs. 

I want to watch the Twins aspire to be in the playoffs. Not just be good enough to be the 6th best team in a 15 team league which is all they tried to do this season. 

[Doctor Wu]

6 hours ago, NYCTK said:

I think bullpens are less of a financial investment as they are a scouting and development issue.

I think that statement is very accurate. Finding the right arms, either in our system or elsewhere, is the key to building a good bullpen. Sure, we can fork out money for "name" arms but that doesn't always guarantee success. I mean, look at the Guardians bullpen, and they aren't stocked with a bunch of big free agent arms either. 

[Riverbrian]

11 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

I want to watch the Twins aspire to be in the playoffs. Not just be good enough to be the 6th best team in a 15 team league which is all they tried to do this season. 

I have no conditions. I attach no filters. 

I want the Twins in the playoffs. 

[NYCTK]

38 minutes ago, Peter said:

Totally disagree with you!!!! This would be the worst thing to happen-the big city national media won’t ever let the state of Minnesota live it down!!! Thais can’t happen!!! That’s why it’s so so so important twins get in playoffs!!!

A Napoleon complex of some fans is not a great reason for the Twins to have to make the playoffs. I can assure you, no one in New York will care if the Twins get in or miss out. Seeing as we all know there's essentially no chance they'd get past the ALDS. 

[Doctor Gast]

We needed this game because it was our best chance to win one & set the mood going into this important series. Lopez pitched a great game against a pretty good team & until the 7th which Vazquez helped get him through. Correa, Lewis & Buxton got it done in 1 inning that'd have been good enough if Capt. Jax was superhuman but alas he is human.

I disagree with sending Alcala down (IMO Baldelli is holding a grudge against him for some reason). They only needed to manage him better & send someone else down. It doesn't look good going forward. IMO a lot of little things that should have been done in the beginning of the season they are starting to do now but now it's too late & now it's snowballing out of control.

 

[JD-TWINS]

9 hours ago, NYCTK said:

This playoff "chase" is just a reminder that mlb screwed up by expanding the playoffs. No one wants to watch the Twins or Tigers in the playoffs. We are a team that should be 5 games back, not 2 games back. 

To each his own………if the playoffs were contracted back to old, you wouldn’t be complaining about the format and still mildly interested in the outcomes.

[Karbo]

9 hours ago, thelanges5 said:

Offense and lack of RISP (2-10) and the Cleveland bullpen are the stories here. 

Tigers sold at the deadline and are now only a game and a half back. 
 

Still cannot get over the fact that  we were 17 games above .500 after the 3 wins in Texas. This is an epic collapse. 

Yep, its hard to play ball with your hands around your throat!

[JD-TWINS]

6 hours ago, glunn said:

These articles are written on a deadline, and the definition of "goat" " seems subjective. 

My sense is that even the greatest players can have a "goat" moment.

I don’t disagree that anyone can “lose the game” in an instance on a particular night.

I watched the replay of the 2-run homer Jax gave up on MLB network twice this morning and it’s essentially a perfect pitch. Location is the extreme high/inside corner of the strike box at 97 mph. The hitter guessed fastball and somehow turned on the pitch with perfect contact. Great piece of hitting! Tough break for Jax and Team to give up the game with this guy’s 3rd HR of the year………tough to call Jax the goat though when Twins score in only one inning.

[JD-TWINS]

35 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

A Napoleon complex of some fans is not a great reason for the Twins to have to make the playoffs. I can assure you, no one in New York will care if the Twins get in or miss out. Seeing as we all know there's essentially no chance they'd get past the ALDS. 

If the Guardian’s DH can hit an up & in 97mph fastball out for his 3rd HR of the year to win the game, anything can happen with Twins bats as well. Am trying to hang in there.

[Riverbrian]

8 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

I just don't get what happened to the run scoring for this team. 

Streaks stop and start on a dime. It takes a while to recognize that you are in one but after awhile it becomes clear that you are.

I would say our recent stretch began on August 18. We were about to sweep the Rangers in Dallas. Alcala gave up a 4 run lead. 

Since that day... the Twins have gone 9-19.

5-9 in games decided by two runs or less. 4-10 in blowouts, 

Over that 28 game stretch. 

The Twins rank 21st in Runs Scored and they rank 21st in OPS. 

The Twins rank 27th in team ERA with a 4.95. 26th in runs allowed which is a repeat of the ERA ranking for obvious reasons. 

During this stretch of games. Royce Lewis, Willi Castro, Jose Miranda, Edouard Julien, Christian Vazquez, Brooks Lee and Max Kepler have produced shouldn't be in the major league numbers. The first 5 names on the above list rank #2, #4,#5, #8 and #9 in AB's during this stretch. 

During this stretch of games. 4 of our 5 starters Ober, Festa, SWR and Zebby have ERA's of 5.86, 5.24, 5.66 and 7.97 respectively. The Bullpen sports a 5.47 ERA. 

Streaks stop and start on a dime. 

All of the numbers that I list above are Yesterday. 

Today is a new day. 

[MinnInPa]

you have to score runs...Twins *&^%$## the bed at the plate. too often bats go silent..and they only score 2 - 3 runs or less. this staff is not built to only give up 3 runs at best. we need someone ..someone to step up and hit the #$%^ ball with RISP. unbelievable how this entire team has went into the tank

[Whitey333]

Twins lost 4-3 to a better team last night.  CCleveland has been leading the central since mid April.  This has been one of the most frustrating seasons in my nearly 60 years of following them.  They have only won like 9 of their last 27 games.  Not much of a "playoff run"  

[JD-TWINS]

9 hours ago, DocBauer said:

It's irrational to give respect to a good team playing good ball but stating my opinion that position by position, man for man, overall, I believe the Twins stack up better if both teams are healthy and putting their best team on the field?

Offensively, the Twins outscore the Guardians. That's just a fact of real numbers. A healthy Ryan in the rotation, and even a healthy Paddack, the Twins are probably at least even in SP. The Guardians have one of the best pens in MLB, a given.

It's NOT being a HOMER to look at numbers and see truth. I believe the Twins are the better team, overall, fully healthy vs a fully healthy Guardians team. 

And if being a fan makes me a HOMER, then so be it. I try to examine everything with an accurate lens. And if you are a Twins fan, then wouldn't you be a "homer" to some degree as well? Or do you just prefer to be negative and troll vs having a real and logical diacussion?

As a contrast - Twins lose at 1B - 2B - 3B - LF ……….starting pitcher depth………Bullpen. These are at a minimum. I’m a Twins fan and like our club overall but in ‘24 the Guardians are superior and have backed up in standings themselves over last 60 days or the gap would make things even more obvious.

Bieber has been out of their rotation essentially all year and Twins lost Ryan maybe 5 weeks ago.

They have had 3-4 other pitcher injuries just like the Twins……couple starters & key Pen guys.

Ramirez is in top 3-4 for MVP in A.L. ………they can play small ball & they are hitting HR’s at a respectable rate this year. Going into yesterday’s game they were one game behind the Yankees for best record in the A.L. & then they won again!

[Aggies7]

It’ll be ok when we get Justin Topa back 

[terrydactyls]

In the immortal words of Maria Von Trapp...

So Long,  Farewell, Auf Wiederzehn, Goodbye.

[Unwinder]

Very confusing headline considering the 2nd, contradictory meaning of the word "goat"

[LambchoP]

It's ready sad that our bullpen has no depth at all because guys like Duran Jax and Alcala usually thrive in Max effort one inning stints. When they get asked to sit down and come back out for another inning, things tend to go bad. Rocco needs to know his guys and understand who is up for the challenge of multiple innings. Of course none of this matters if we can't score any runs. Buxton and Correa look pretty dialed in already which should help. I just don't get this two year long problem of hitting with RISP. We've got to be one of the worst in the league. You can't leave 10+ guys on base per game while your offense is struggling. Boys better figure it out ASAP otherwise we'll be watching the damn Tigers in the wildcard which would be an embarrassment.

[thelanges5]

8 hours ago, knothole61 said:

I haven't done a statistical deep dive, but off the top of my head (and forgive me if I state the obvious) until recently the Twins were missing Correa and his .906 OPS, and Buxton and his .863 OPS, while Castro, Lee, and Lewis have experienced extensive slumps--and then there was that whole Julien thing!  

Entire offense slumping at the same time, that was the story of the first part of the season as well. They were doing well without Correa, but the wheels really fell off when Buck went out.

[SockNet]

I understand mathmatically it will be hard for the Twins to miss the playoffs, but I thnk they can do it.

 

[thelanges5]

Offense ranks #18 in OPS w/RISP. 

KC #2, DET #5, CLE #9. And then there’s also this.