Twins Roster Moves: Zack Weiss In, Jordan Balazovic Out, Santana and Jackson Official

[CRF]

They might as well bring back that "Get to know em" ad campaign, because some of these guys aren't even household names in their own household.

[Shaitan]

Really nice, simple summary of the Balazovic roster spot.

[Shaitan]

3 hours ago, Gamblerssoftball said:

Some these poor guys have no clue whether to unpack their bags or just sleep at the airport. Gotta be kind of frustrating 😒 

At least it's the offseason. I feel for the players who get stuck in this limbo in July.

[ashbury]

1 hour ago, Jocko87 said:

One of the few names I could spell. 😢

Or remember, one day later.

[jmlease1]

It's too bad that Balazovic crapped out here, but last year was really his key year and between the bar fight (even if he wasn't at fault), lack of control, injuries, and lack of performance made it another poor season. He really does illustrate the risk of high school pitchers; even when they look like they're breaking out in the low minors it can easily fall apart in the high minors, which is exactly what happened to Balazovic.

I wasn't confident in him making the roster after they signed Staumont, frankly, and it's only gotten worse for him since with Topa and Jackson coming in.

I do think the bullpen looks pretty good and they've wisely not dropped real money on middle relievers.

[stringer bell]

The club gave Balazovic his chance. The results were pretty good early, but the longer he was on the team, the less effective he was. 

[2wins87]

3 hours ago, DJL44 said:

The Dodgers report on 2/9, Padres on 2/11 and most other teams 2/14 or 2/15. That's when the 60 day IL opens.

Yeah that's what I thought.

The only place I see 2/8 mentioned (specifically for the Dodgers) is in a Fangraphs article, so they might have just been off by one day.

It looks like the Padres already have spots open on their 40 man, but also would have already passed on Duarte and Thompson. I think the Braves and Orioles both have spots open and are behind the Twins in the waiver order, so they might have interest in putting in a claim.

I would say it's pretty likely one or more passes through waivers and will be able to be stashed, possibly all 3.

[IndianaTwin]

2 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

I think it's an attempt to get as many as they can. Just keep claiming and waiving, signing and waiving, waiving guys you already have and see how many you can get through. They're all roughly the same guy so just see if you can't collect a few more to stash in AAA. They don't really care if they lose 9 out of 10 of the waived guys because they've replaced them with a guy with a similar chance to be successful, but each time they get one through they've increased their odds. I don't think it's so much grading player vs player, but instead a general pool of players that they're trying to collect as many of as they can.

Not to mention that, if I understand it correctly, any guy they picked up on waivers has already made it past a bunch of teams once. Times can change and a team could reconsider, but for the most part, they are just needing to sneak the guy past a few of the teams, teams that in theory are stronger teams. 

[Dman]

1 hour ago, 2wins87 said:

Yeah that's what I thought.

The only place I see 2/8 mentioned (specifically for the Dodgers) is in a Fangraphs article, so they might have just been off by one day.

It looks like the Padres already have spots open on their 40 man, but also would have already passed on Duarte and Thompson. I think the Braves and Orioles both have spots open and are behind the Twins in the waiver order, so they might have interest in putting in a claim.

I would say it's pretty likely one or more passes through waivers and will be able to be stashed, possibly all 3.

I was wondering about the Braves maybe grabbing Thompson as a defensive depth piece as they have several open 40 man spots.  I also was thinking they might be interested in Balazovic as he has been a starter and they don't have much depth, although with him being fairly untested and having control problems they likely could do better with claims out of spring training. They have a lot of spots left and I don't think they have been too active with claims yet, but they can afford for someone closer to MLB quality as well.

[DocBauer]

The churn happening with these pen arms is natural, and not inclusive of the Twins. Every team is doing this at this point in the season. It's much like playing various card games when you can burn a 3 card for a 7 card that might win a hand with surprise. The simple fact that some of these guys have already passed through 2 or 3 teams already indicates how the game is played.

You drop/discard someone for an arm you like better. And at some point, you have the better card that wins a turn, nobody snags him, you put him at AAA, and he either helps your milb team, or he figures something out and you get lucky.

Haven't we been through this enough over the years that we can stop explaining it all?

Balazovic MIGHT be a Liam Hendricks in 3yrs. But can you blame the Twins for DFA-ing at this point? Maybe the biggest arm disappointment in 10yrs.

Personally, I still think we're going to sign Duvall, Pham, Taylor, or a surprise yet. And then Weiss is the next guy to be DFA. [I'd be OK with Soler on a 2yr, but I just don't see it happening]. 

I LOVE the idea of adding pen arms whenever and wherever you can, looking for lightning. It's how you get guys like Tielbar and Stewart. But doing so, you have to be smart about it. The FO BLEW IT in 2023 because they could have kept Coulombe and Hoffman for next to nothing.

But when I look at the 40 man roster as of right now, except for Weiss who I'm not convinced is going to stay, much less an improvement, I'm not seeing much chaffe right now.

Was it 2020 when the Twins collected a group of VERY marginal pen arms to fill the 40 man for HOPE of help? Or was it 2021? Sorry that I've forgotten. But when I see a 40 man that includes Jackson and Weiss as the LAST 2 guys who could be jettisoned at any moment, I'm feeling pretty good about the current state of the 40 man talent wise...with the OBVIOUS caveat of having a better rotation piece other than the hope and prayer of Disco.

Teams are so close to their 40 man limit right now, that Balazovic, Jensen, Bubba, Duarte, might slip through waivers and wait for opportunity and help St Paul, if not the Twins.

But there's easy room to still add one more piece. Weiss will only be on the roster for a few days.

 

[RaoulDuke]

6 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

AJ Alexy, Josh Staumont, Ryan Jensen, Daniel Duarte, Zack Weiss, Jordan Balazovic.

I think it would be fascinating to sit in the war room and hear the rationale for shuffling all of these similar relievers. This is a yearly thing, so there must be some built in strategy for this. We like this one better because of x or this one because of y. They all look the same from a high level. None of these players really interest me, but hearing the rationale absolutely would.

 

Same, I think analytics probably plays a big role in it.  They want guys with stuff they think they can maximize.

Might just be hubris on my part but I think Staumont is a step above the rest of these guys, if he is healthy of course.  Seems like he could be the Brock Stewart of this year but thoracic outlet surgery is scary to have on the resume.

[nicksaviking]

3 hours ago, stringer bell said:

The club gave Balazovic his chance. The results were pretty good early, but the longer he was on the team, the less effective he was. 

And it ain't over just yet. I think he's gone, but the Twins almost certainly timed this when they did to at least give them a fighting chance to sneak him through.

Which actually would be a tough break for Balazovic. 

[stringer bell]

1 hour ago, DocBauer said:

I love the idea of adding pen arms whenever and wherever you can, looking for lightning. It's how you get guys like Tielbar and Stewart. But doing so you have to be smart about it. The FO BLEW IT IN 2023 because they could have had Coulombe and Hoffman for next to nothing.

I disagree with you @DocBauer, or maybe with the degree of your disapproval. Danny Coulombe is the definition of a journeyman pitcher. No one offered him a major league deal in 2023 and it was far from a sure thing that some team would sign him to a major league deal at the end of Spring Training. The Orioles got him and he performed admirably, but in the same situation, I think the FO should go with younger guys with options to fill out their bullpen. Remember, Coulombe would cost the team both a 40-man and an active roster spot. The same is true for Hoffman, but I'm a little less forgiving for him because he is younger and seemed then to have more upside.

1 hour ago, DocBauer said:

Was it 2020 when the Twins collected a group of VERY marginal pen arms to fill the 40 man for HOPE of help? Or was it 2021? Sorry that I've forgotten. 

 

I think you mean 2021. 2020 was the 60-game COVID season, whereas the Twins finished in last place in 2021, To your earlier point, several of those 2021--Coulombe, Derek Law and Ian Gibault--have emerged as pretty good relievers. One doesn't know from year to year. In 2022 the Twins employed Ian Hamilton, Coulombe again and Yennier Canó and they all thrived in 2023. Pretty much a crapshoot.

[h2oface]

“essentially inessential”  🤣

[DocBauer]

1 hour ago, stringer bell said:

I disagree with you @DocBauer, or maybe with the degree of your disapproval. Danny Coulombe is the definition of a journeyman pitcher. No one offered him a major league deal in 2023 and it was far from a sure thing that some team would sign him to a major league deal at the end of Spring Training. The Orioles got him and he performed admirably, but in the same situation, I think the FO should go with younger guys with options to fill out their bullpen. Remember, Coulombe would cost the team both a 40-man and an active roster spot. The same is true for Hoffman, but I'm a little less forgiving for him because he is younger and seemed then to have more upside.

I think you mean 2021. 2020 was the 60-game COVID season, whereas the Twins finished in last place in 2021, To your earlier point, several of those 2021--Coulombe, Derek Law and Ian Gibault--have emerged as pretty good relievers. One doesn't know from year to year. In 2022 the Twins employed Ian Hamilton, Coulombe again and Yennier Canó and they all thrived in 2023. Pretty much a crapshoot.

Good post. And a more accurate memory than mine. Or maybe more fortitude to take time to look things up? Lol

Just be to clear, I'd mostly always look to the younger arm with potential than the older vet with question marks. However, you don't get a Thielbar or Stewart if you don't look at a 30yo arm with potential.

Not saying I'm CRAZY about a 36yo arm as a middle man, but I won't curse him for being good in his role if he is good, despite his age.

The Twins 2023 bullpen was OK for most of the season, up and down, mediocre. It finished strong. But while I've never thought Coulombe was great, he was solid. And there were a few points early in the season where I would have accepted solid. Hoffman had a great ST and then went out and had probably had the best year of his career. I would have much rather had him in the pen rather than Sands sitting on the bench for 10 days at a time. Wouldn't you?

I'm excited for Funderburk. I'm excited for Canterino for the pen as I still have doubts that his future is in the rotation. But one of he or Varland is going to be in the pen going forward. Duran is a young stud. Jax ain't exactly old.

But at the same time, where would the pen be, last year and maybe this year, without Thielbar and Stewart? Just saying, pens are constructed many different ways. Sometimes they are 25yo studs. Sometimes they're 26-27yo arms that couldn't hack it as a SP, or had injury issues. And sometimes they're a 32yo arm that incredulously figured something out.

Never stop turning rocks over. Never apologize when you turn that rock over and find a lost coin. 

[LewFordLives]

14 hours ago, ashbury said:

Zack Weiss.  How quickly we forget. 😀

I have absolutely zero recollection of him being in the system. I admit my age may be affecting my memory.

[miracleb]

16 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Balazovic may still have enough perceived upside that they are able to get cash or a low-level prospect in return.

Better than nothing I guess.....

[Kenny Powers]

It's interesting....part of me sort of feels like you would want to at least see Balazovic throw this spring before making such a move.  He's been in the system for 7 years and has consistently been listed as a top prospect including last season #17 by Baseball America and #21 MLB Pipeline.  He's still only 25.

But...on the other side of the coin, his actual production hasn't lived up to the hype.  His AAA numbers are: 

116 innings, 6.58 ERA and 1.86 WHIP. 

I personally saw him pitch in a couple games at St. Paul.  I remember wishing I had one of those whiplash neck collars after watching several hard hit long balls.  He had his shot.  I'm glad they are not going to just carry him and plug up a roster spot.  Nothing wrong with making guys earn their spots and Balazovic didn't do enough to keep his.

[bighat]

Dang, I remember this board just 3 years ago when Balazovic was THE GUY we were all excited about. "Wait until Balazovic gets here", people were talking like this guy was a sure thing, we had the next Gerrit Cole and he was coming to OUR TEAM and life was going to be amazing for Twins fans for years to come. Imagine if the Twins had shipped him off in a deal for a major league player back then? 

As others have said, it's a reminder that prospects - even the most polished - are never sure things until they produce at the MLB level. So the next time you think the Twins gave up too many prospects in a deal, or that they should trade MLB talent for prospects, just remember that it's extremely risky. 

Also, how weird that Jordy Blaze is out of options? What the heck, he's spent like 2 months in the majors, how does a guy like that get out of options? 

[Otaknam]

Good for Jackson getting some guaranteed money for the first time, which isn’t a lot compared to other contracts. But let’s remember this FO gave Dobnak a guaranteed five year, $9.25 million contract based on him being a 4 and sometimes 5 inning starter. That was a head scratcher at the time, IMO. Now Dobnak can’t even make the active roster. Meanwhile a younger Balazovic, once a top prospect, is dropped from the roster and likely lost, in favor of a 36 year old pitcher. So pardon me if I’m skeptical of FO moves with pitching.

[Kenny Powers]

1 hour ago, bighat said:

Dang, I remember this board just 3 years ago when Balazovic was THE GUY we were all excited about. "Wait until Balazovic gets here", people were talking like this guy was a sure thing, we had the next Gerrit Cole and he was coming to OUR TEAM and life was going to be amazing for Twins fans for years to come. Imagine if the Twins had shipped him off in a deal for a major league player back then? 

As others have said, it's a reminder that prospects - even the most polished - are never sure things until they produce at the MLB level. So the next time you think the Twins gave up too many prospects in a deal, or that they should trade MLB talent for prospects, just remember that it's extremely risky. 

Also, how weird that Jordy Blaze is out of options? What the heck, he's spent like 2 months in the majors, how does a guy like that get out of options? 

I was thinking about the loss of value this morning too.  Example, I wonder if back in 2022 we could have shipped Balazovic to the Reds for Sonny Gray instead of Chase Petty?  I have no idea if that would have flown or not and obviously hindsight is always wonderful.  But yeah - it's crazy to think how much perceived value prospects have...until they don't.

[h2oface]

4 to 5 years later…. Balazovic the next Liam Hendriks? Hard to wait that long holding a roster spot and suffering through the wait for that gamble. 

[Guest]

On 2/7/2024 at 2:35 PM, Seth Stohs said:

I do like the strategy of claiming big arms or guys with something to work on, and then claim more and DFA guys and hope that a few get through waivers and can stick in the organization. 

I do think Balazovic will be claimed, but we'll see. 

Do you think the Twins will be able to increase Weiss's velocity, or is that something they can only do for Day 2/3 draftees?

[purplesoldier4u]

On 2/7/2024 at 2:20 PM, notoriousgod71 said:

I don't care about giving up on balazovic but I'd prefer it to be for someone that isn't going to be on the constant shuttle to and from AAA.

Funny, the only people who really thought Balazovic had any steam were the people on this site.

[notoriousgod71]

On 2/7/2024 at 3:13 PM, nicksaviking said:

AJ Alexy, Josh Staumont, Ryan Jensen, Daniel Duarte, Zack Weiss, Jordan Balazovic.

I think it would be fascinating to sit in the war room and hear the rationale for shuffling all of these similar relievers. This is a yearly thing, so there must be some built in strategy for this. We like this one better because of x or this one because of y. They all look the same from a high level. None of these players really interest me, but hearing the rationale absolutely would.

 

Agreed if it was ACTUAL rationale and not just falvey-speak.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

I thought waivers was 2 days.  I thought would have heard about the 3 DFA Friday,  Then thought with the weekend would be Monday.  Still nothing today.  When will we hear anything on the 3 whether they were claimed or passed through waivers.  

[stringer bell]

I think it is seven days, so we'll get word tomorrow.

[stringer bell]

53 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

I thought waivers was 2 days.  I thought would have heard about the 3 DFA Friday,  Then thought with the weekend would be Monday.  Still nothing today.  When will we hear anything on the 3 whether they were claimed or passed through waivers.  

Bubba we hardly knew ye. Claimed by the Reds.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/02/reds-claim-bubba-thompson-designate-levi-stoudt.html

[DJL44]

I saw Balazovic and Duarte on the NRI invite list for spring training. I assume that means they cleared waivers.

[stringer bell]

22 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I saw Balazovic and Duarte on the NRI invite list for spring training. I assume that means they cleared waivers.

I saw the list and noted they had passed through waivers. So, they lost Bubba, but kept Jordy Blaze and Duarte.