What Do You Do With a Problem Like Miranda?

[DJL44]

17 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

I think is it with the addition of an outfielders glove. 

There's a good chance Miranda can play outfield as well as Kyle Garlick (5 runs below average for a full season). 

[Jocko87]

Just now, DJL44 said:

There's a good chance Miranda can play outfield as well as Kyle Garlick (5 runs below average for a full season). 

Exactly, OF lefty masher fills a need too. 

[Met Stadium Usher]

For an oldster, I am kind of up on my baseball acronyms, but could someone kindly define BBTV?

As in "His BBTV is 18.0 right now." 

Thanks!

[roger]

I kind of like the Twins right now.  Seems Solano has had a lot of clutch hits the last week(s).  And Michael A. Taylor has been a heck of a part of the team.  Plays very good center, steals a bunch of bases and is hitting what, .240 with 9 or 10 bangers.  That is a solid player.  Throw in what Castro adds and you have a nice team.  I imagine when Polo is back, Julien goes down to keep playing.  But he has shown me he belongs at Target Field.  Now the problem comes when Buxton is healthy.  What will that move be.

So I don't mind Miranda spending all of this year back at St. Paul.  But Miranda has to put his name back into the mix for '24 and beyond by hitting like he did in the minors in 2021.  Give the Twins a reason to expect him to demand a spot on this roster.  Is also important that he spend as much time at first as third in St. Paul so he can become at least adequate at both positions.  

[ashbury]

27 minutes ago, roger said:

I kind of like the Twins right now.  Seems Solano has had a lot of clutch hits the last week(s).  And Michael A. Taylor has been a heck of a part of the team.  Plays very good center, steals a bunch of bases and is hitting what, .240 with 9 or 10 bangers.  That is a solid player. 

Whoever our hitting coach is, sign him to a long extension!

[rv78]

33 minutes ago, roger said:

I kind of like the Twins right now.  Seems Solano has had a lot of clutch hits the last week(s).  And Michael A. Taylor has been a heck of a part of the team.  Plays very good center, steals a bunch of bases and is hitting what, .240 with 9 or 10 bangers.  That is a solid player.  Throw in what Castro adds and you have a nice team.  I imagine when Polo is back, Julien goes down to keep playing.  But he has shown me he belongs at Target Field.  Now the problem comes when Buxton is healthy.  What will that move be.

So I don't mind Miranda spending all of this year back at St. Paul.  But Miranda has to put his name back into the mix for '24 and beyond by hitting like he did in the minors in 2021.  Give the Twins a reason to expect him to demand a spot on this roster.  Is also important that he spend as much time at first as third in St. Paul so he can become at least adequate at both positions.  

It's amazing how someone with a .240 Batting Average is now considered a "solid player". I've always felt that if they couldn't hit at least .250 that there had to be someone better that could replace them. I guess when the majority of the team is hitting .220 or below, .240 looks pretty darn good. Excuse me while I go puke.

As for the problem when Buxton is healthy............... when will that be? In the year 2525, if man is still alive....

[Steve Lein]

6 hours ago, ToddlerHarmon said:

I know you want to heighten the suspense, Mr. Schwerzler, but your litany of movable parts ignored the two elephants in the room: Max Kepler is replaceable in right, and Byron Buxton should be the everyday center fielder, not the everyday DH.

This is a huge part of it for me, especially Buxton not playing the field. Him having to occupy the DH spot has sent this ripple throughout every other position except SS and C.

And what sucks is I get trying to protect Buxton, but has that cost been worth it?

The Twins are middle of the pack in the AL in OPS, but really, they're in tier 3 of 4, below average overall. Lucky for them, every other member of the Central is below them and for the most part, bad teams overall, so this OPS number is even inflated some. 

[ashbury]

6 minutes ago, Steve Lein said:

The Twins are middle of the pack in the AL in OPS, but really, they're in tier 3 of 4, below average overall. Lucky for them, every other member of the Central is below them and for the most part, bad teams overall, so this OPS number is even inflated some. 

It's like some Bizarro Universe Lake Wobegone, where all the team managers are ugly, and all the batters are below average.

[David Maro]

Miranda is the teams dog days of summer insurance policy. Right now Lewis is the 3rd baseman because they don't want to lose him to injury. Buxton has been on the IL twice this year not playing CF. Why would they play him there when Taylor has been able to play every day. I know Kepler has been a problem with the bat,but we saw how poor play in RF can change the game. Anderson looked over matched on 3 hits today. 

[Nine of twelve]

3 hours ago, Met Stadium Usher said:

For an oldster, I am kind of up on my baseball acronyms, but could someone kindly define BBTV?

As in "His BBTV is 18.0 right now." 

Thanks!

Baseball Trade Value. I hadn't heard of this either but a quick Google search was all that was needed. Always remember, Google is your friend.

[Met Stadium Usher]

Thanks, Nine of twelve!

[twins_89]

If Miranda is hitting, I don't think there would be much of an issue finding him ABs at 3B/1B/DH. The fact that all of our depth at corner OF and 1B is left-handed gives him a pretty clear opportunity.

[Jocko87]

2 hours ago, rv78 said:

It's amazing how someone with a .240 Batting Average is now considered a "solid player". I've always felt that if they couldn't hit at least .250 that there had to be someone better that could replace them. I guess when the majority of the team is hitting .220 or below, .240 looks pretty darn good. Excuse me while I go puke.

As for the problem when Buxton is healthy............... when will that be? In the year 2525, if man is still alive....

I’ve seen a few broadcasts not even displaying BA anymore. The only reason anyone cares is that it’s been displayed so prominently for so long. 

[Chris Spencer]

8 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

He has a full no trade clause. Who is trading for him if he's "not good" as you say? 

I said he is not a good DH. Throw him on the DL if he cannot play in the field and DH somebody that can hit better.

[jkcarew]

Problem was probably not the right word.

I do think he has an uphill battle. Even with the Twins, 1B and DH figure to be fairly high offensive hurdles to clear…and apparently, they don’t love him at 3rd.

He’s gotta mash. Play him every day in AAA, and see what happens.

[Beast]

These things work themselves out with injuries.  Especially on this club where nobody can stay healthy.

But, if he gets things going, find a way to get him in the lineup.  Royce isn’t playing everyday at third (they’ve been giving him days off or DH here or there).  There some ABs to be had at 1B/DH.

Clearly the Buxton DH experiment didn’t keep him healthy, so might at well get him out in centerfield occasionally.  As said above, Buxton’s value is in CF.

They need to stop screwing around with Kepler.  They are obsessed with milking a penance of value out of him that they’re harming the team.

Guys like Castro and Solano have had their moments.  But, they’re not a long term answer.  It makes no sense to cling to guys like that.  We pulled them out of the bargain bin.  If Miranda returns to form, he’s a better player than Solano.  We have 4 of the best defensive outfielders in the league on the roster (Kepler in RF, Gallo anywhere, Buxton and Taylor in CF).  We don’t need to be playing Castro in the OF.

This shouldn’t be a problem.  We have multiple guys that can give up ABs or just be let go.  I don’t know where this narrative came from that we have this immovable logjam of talent.  It’s just not there.  

[joefish]

If he is hitting, dh him. Until Buxton hits better. Play the hot hand. His only way onto the lineup is if his bat hot. 

I think Gallo is a bigger problem.

[Karbo]

21 hours ago, stringer bell said:

The problem is that aside from Kirilloff, the outfield is where the left handed hitters play, particularly if Buxton is considered a DH. In the infield, we have Correa, Lewis, Farmer and Solano covering all four spots and with Famer and Solano able to play multiple positions. Miranda currently isn't outhitting Donnie Barrels, so there is no real place to play him except DH.

Is there a good reason not to give him a lot of work in the OF while down in St. Paul? Just spit-balling here, but a RH to play OF has been a weakness for a while.

[arby58]

22 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

Miranda will get an opportunity. Kirilloff may be needed in RF. In fact I think the OF is where he helps most in 2024. Lewis may be needed at 2B and probably helps most in CF next year. Both have injury histories.

 

 

Miranda butchered first base last year, and his defense at third doesn't suggest he will become the second coming of Don Mattingly. If anybody is moving to first base, it may well be Julien.

[chpettit19]

23 hours ago, TopGunn#22 said:

I gave a thumbs up to chpettit19 because he makes a good point, but I'll offer this counterpoint about the "wave" of talent and possibly "depleting" that wave.  You deplete your wave if you get a promising pitcher (Mahle) but arm problems negates any contributions he could have made last year and this year.  We still don't know what the future is for Mahle with the Twins, but in this case I'd firmly agree with chpettit19 that the "wave" was depleted.  

However, let's remember that Miranda had one giant season at St. Paul and a good 2nd half of the season for the Twins last year.  And he's still a player without a defensive position for the Twins due to the caliber of players that would be playing 3B or 1B.  His BBTV is 18.0 right now.  That's not insignificant.  At this point he's a clear "sell high" candidate.  It all comes down to what you would get for him.  If the Twins packaged him with Jorge Polanco to the Brewers for Corbin Burnes with the intent of signing Burnes to a contract extension to anchor our rotation for the 5-6 years I'd be on board with that.  With Mahle, Maeda and even Sonny Gray quite possibly NOT being part of our rotation next year having Burnes anchor a staff with Pablo Lopez, Joe Ryan, Bailey Ober and Louie Varland with Paddock for depth is attractive.  Would the Brewers do it?  Would some team like the Dodgers just out bid the Twins for a pitcher the caliber of Burnes?  Maybe so.  The trade is acceptable for BBTV's and Polanco would slot in at 2B and Miranda at 3B/DH for the Brewers.  Burnes wouldn't "deplete" the wave, he would boost it.

You could also flip Polanco for Woodruff in a straight one for one.  It's been speculated for the last couple years that the Brewers won't and probably can't keep both Burnes and Woodruff (and maybe not either).  Suitors for each of them will be lining up.  The Twins have enough value to make serious, competitive bids for either of them without touching Lewis, Lee, Ober, etc...  It all depends what you get back.  Does it deplete the wave or boost it?  The Twins will be reloading with 3 high picks later this month.  The draft will take place well before the trade deadline.   

I don't disagree here at all, but you'd definitely be depleting the wave of position players during a time when the position players are the weakness on your team. Right now, if you believe in Varland, and think Paddack can be solid when he comes back, you've got a full rotation, and you have to be able to provide the depth behind it with your minor leaguers. But, right now, you have a lineup that is struggling to score runs consistently, and trading a healthy Polanco, plus Miranda, would put them in an even tougher spot with the offense. I like both Burnes, and Woodruff, but Burnes' numbers have been declining for a couple years so I'm not sure I'd want to go too crazy in going after him when the weakness on the team is offense, not pitching.

But I definitely agree that the return you get in a trade effects whether or not you deplete you overall talent level. I'd just prefer to hold onto the prospects, and not deplete the young, inexpensive talent anymore since that's the key to this organization being able to be sustainably good. You trade too many young guys, for too many veterans, and your ability to fill holes declines exponentially. Whether the veterans turn out to be useful or not. There's only so much money the Pohlads are going to be willing to spend. If you trade too many prospects from 1 wave you leave yourself with a top heavy team, and the Jake Caves, and Kyle Garlicks, of the world needing to fill vital spots. I don't want that.

[chpettit19]

16 hours ago, rv78 said:

It's amazing how someone with a .240 Batting Average is now considered a "solid player". I've always felt that if they couldn't hit at least .250 that there had to be someone better that could replace them. I guess when the majority of the team is hitting .220 or below, .240 looks pretty darn good. Excuse me while I go puke.

As for the problem when Buxton is healthy............... when will that be? In the year 2525, if man is still alive....

FYI, there were 79 qualified hitters in all of baseball in 2022 that hit .250 or better. It's time to start changing your perception on hitting. You've been left behind.

[chpettit19]

13 hours ago, Chris Spencer said:

I said he is not a good DH. Throw him on the DL if he cannot play in the field and DH somebody that can hit better.

Who can hit better?

[Blyleven2011]

Problem  , I don't see no stinking Problem  ...

If Minnesota keeps playing him exclusively at third base  then I see a Problem  because of Lewis  manning third base and Kirilloff and others manning first base  he has no position except as a bench player or DH and he needs to hit every day to stay productive  ... 

If he can improve on his defense  and I'm sure he can then maybe Lewis can move to second base or outfield with his athleticism  but not in favor of that move to tge outfield ...

Minnesota may know he needs a new home but are reluctant to find one for him,  his new home could be with another team ...

 

As usual the FO doesn't tell us anything on a players condition  and that injured shoulder in spring training could have been the reason for his slow start and now maybe it's finally healing up and he's swinging better for hard hit contact ...

[Whitey333]

Buxton is the problem.  Every year it's the same.  How many games will he miss due to injuries.  Not being able to play center field hurts the team in two positions: center field and DH.  He us NOT a good DH.  He has hit only .177 since May 1st. But we can always Blane it on injuries like we have for 8 years now.  Sometimes I feel like the Twins do their prospects a great disservice by not letting them play regularly once they are here.  

[MileHighTwinsFan]

On 6/14/2023 at 8:26 AM, ToddlerHarmon said:

I know you want to heighten the suspense, Mr. Schwerzler, but your litany of movable parts ignored the two elephants in the room: Max Kepler is replaceable in right, and Byron Buxton should be the everyday center fielder, not the everyday DH

If Aaron Gleeman is right, Buxton will be in CF at some point this season.  That would open up a lineup spot for Miranda, but maybe not a roster spot.  Rocco clearly likes the flexibility that Castro, Farmer and Solano bring to the team. Miranda and Wallner being promoted would reduce flexibility.

As for Kepler, there is literally a big right field wall standing between Kepler and any possible replacements . Yesterday was case and point. Anderson looked like an utter fool trying to navigate right field, something that is second nature for Kepler.  While Wallner was impressive at the plate, he looked very shaky in right field.  I am guessing the Twins still value Kepler's defense above all else - at least for now.   

In the end - it will require an injury or a significant drop off in performance among some roster players for Wallner or Miranda to get a shot.  

[Jeff K]

On 6/14/2023 at 9:37 AM, Nine of twelve said:

Many very good baseball players bounced between the majors and AAA early in their careers. Torii Hunter is a good example. Very often these things just take time.

True comment, but Torii is a poor comparison as he carried a gold glove.  Miranda assuredly does not.  Torii's issue was consistent hitting.

[Craig Arko]

See how he does writing Broadway musicals?

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, Craig Arko said:

See how he does writing Broadway musicals?

Well played 

[twinfan]

It's nice to have these options plus maybe the Twins have some players they can deal for something better if we are to make a run for the Central division and beyond. Right now we have to get and stay healthy since Polanco and Buxton have been missing. We'll see what Miranda does offensively over the next few weeks and go from there but we can't just write him off as our offense has been spotty at best.

[rv78]

On 6/15/2023 at 8:56 AM, chpettit19 said:

FYI, there were 79 qualified hitters in all of baseball in 2022 that hit .250 or better. It's time to start changing your perception on hitting. You've been left behind.

The fact that, not hitting at an average above .250 is acceptable is a poor perception of hitting. Lowering standards so I fit in with todays game isn't something I am going to do. Having a lineup of guys that can hit .220 along with 15-20 HR's and will probably set a record for strikeouts is not a winning formula for an offense. My perception is fine. You've just decided to jump on the bandwagon and consider since it is how things have become, it is how things have to be.