Pagan Tendered

[tony&rodney]

Oh No. The Twins tendered Pagan. Someone on mlbtraderumors said, "Worst front office in the league."

Interesting decision. Apparently, Falvey has doubled down on that SD trade, at least temorarily.

[Vanimal46]

1 minute ago, tony&rodney said:

Oh No. The Twins tendered Pagan

Just saw that as well. Clearly Falvey and Levine see something that we don’t as fans. I really don’t understand it. 

[Linus]

Per MLB Trade Rumors Pagan has been tendered. I’m really trying to like our FO but their hubris in player evaluation is mind blowing. 

[Doctor Gast]

Thanks Linus, I'm not surprized and very disappointed. He's not worth the 40 man roster spot.

[darwin22]

Just the type of move that really makes me as a 45 year plus fan question my loyalty to this team.  

SMH......again.

[Mike Sixel]

Dan Hayes claims more teams were interested in him than Gio. I've spent a lot of time defending this FO, but they just lost me until they prove they know what they are doing. At some point, results matter. And his results have been awful for three years.

[rwilfong86]

3 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Dan Hayes claims more teams were interested in him than Gio. I've spent a lot of time defending this FO, but they just lost me until they prove they know what they are doing. At some point, results matter. And his results have been awful for three years.

I am with you, this team is making some of the worst moves imaginable. The Urshela trade and now this. Yuck. 

[ashbury]

6 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Dan Hayes claims more teams were interested in him than Gio.

Then get that bidding war going, flip him for something better than a team's #22 prospect, make them take Kepler and his salary while they're at it, and move on. ?

[KirbyDome89]

5 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Dan Hayes claims more teams were interested in him than Gio. I've spent a lot of time defending this FO, but they just lost me until they prove they know what they are doing. At some point, results matter. And his results have been awful for three years.

Actively cringing at the fact they could've gotten something for him and instead decided to run it back with one of the worst relief pitchers in team history. 

[Vanimal46]

Then take advantage and trade him. 

[CRF]

Very disappointing. Can't believe they want to keep him. What the heck is the FO thinking?

[Game7-91]

Now if we can only figure out a way to pry Jake Cave from those pesky Orioles?

[tony&rodney]

14 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I've spent a lot of time defending this FO, but they just lost me until they prove they know what they are doing. At some point, results matter. And his results have been awful for three years.

You have company. Not just me and many other Twins fans but Ron Davis is wondering too.

[howeda7]

Nothing will improve with this organization until the front office is gone.

[Brandon]

Pagan pitched much better the last 2months or so of the season.  I think I heard he was bullheaded about taking instructions probably until he failed so much it was either cooperate or be DFAd and when he did he improved.  The FO probably want to see how he progresses next season.  I think it’s an ok gamble.

[chpettit19]

I don't want Pagan back, so don't yell at me for what I'm about to say, but...it's an interesting situation when the front office is seen as being dumb and incapable of evaluating talent when they keep a guy multiple teams wanted to trade for.

[Mike Sixel]

12 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I don't want Pagan back, so don't yell at me for what I'm about to say, but...it's an interesting situation when the front office is seen as being dumb and incapable of evaluating talent when they keep a guy multiple teams wanted to trade for.

I get it, but all teams think they can fix a guy with this talent. It is a trait of every FO (from what I read online from former employees). But, you have a point.

[Parfigliano]

51 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

Oh No. The Twins tendered Pagan. Someone on mlbtraderumors said, "Worst front office in the league."

Interesting decision. Apparently, Falvey has doubled down on that SD trade, at least temorarily.

Bad bad front office.

[KirbyDome89]

49 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I don't want Pagan back, so don't yell at me for what I'm about to say, but...it's an interesting situation when the front office is seen as being dumb and incapable of evaluating talent when they keep a guy multiple teams wanted to trade for.

If I buy a lemon that was much more of a headache than it was worth, and eschew the chance sell and recoup part of my initial investment, was my decision making process sound at any point just because somebody else liked the shiny wheels?

[chpettit19]

9 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

If I buy a lemon that was much more of a headache than it was worth, and eschew the chance sell and recoup part of my initial investment, was my decision making process sound at any point just because somebody else liked the shiny wheels?

Problem with your analogy is that the other clubs don't like "the shiny wheels," they like the engine. Maybe there's multiple bad mechanics running teams and the Twins happen to be one of the teams with a bad mechanic. I certainly won't rule that out. But, to me, the teams that would be looking to trade for Pagan (who's still trade eligible, by the way, it's not like they're locked into him forever now) are either rebuilding teams who think they can pull a Jorge Lopez with him and spin half a great season into some prospects, or they're contenders who think he can help their bullpen. We don't know which teams were interested so maybe it was just all the terribly run teams who called about him. Or maybe it was the Dodgers and Astros and Braves. 

Again, I don't want Pagan back and wish they would've traded or non-tendered him. But the idea that the Twins are dumb for wanting a player that other teams want doesn't make sense.

[wsnydes]

I threw up in my mouth a little when I read this headline, but if multiple teams were interested in trading for him, I'm missing something and willing to admit it.  Nothing says that he is still on the roster come spring training.

[Linus]

Well we actually don’t know if multiple teams were interested in him. The source was a Twins official so not exactly unbiased. Maybe they were interested if the Twins threw in another prospect or chipped in money. 

[KirbyDome89]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

Problem with your analogy is that the other clubs don't like "the shiny wheels," they like the engine. Maybe there's multiple bad mechanics running teams and the Twins happen to be one of the teams with a bad mechanic. I certainly won't rule that out. But, to me, the teams that would be looking to trade for Pagan (who's still trade eligible, by the way, it's not like they're locked into him forever now) are either rebuilding teams who think they can pull a Jorge Lopez with him and spin half a great season into some prospects, or they're contenders who think he can help their bullpen. We don't know which teams were interested so maybe it was just all the terribly run teams who called about him. Or maybe it was the Dodgers and Astros and Braves. 

Again, I don't want Pagan back and wish they would've traded or non-tendered him. But the idea that the Twins are dumb for wanting a player that other teams want doesn't make sense.

I guess if you believe his issues with HRs and baserunners are going to evaporate then sure, it's the engine. Shiny was in reference to the K rate and "stuff," that's constantly touted despite the poor results. I think there's something that doesn't click internally but the real point was that interest outside of MN doesn't validate the decision to sign or keep Pagan anymore than guys signing or being claimed elsewhere invalidates the Twins decision to let them go.

Do I think they were "dumb," for rolling the dice on him last year? Not necessarily, but it wasn't exactly a great gamble. Do I think they're "dumb," for tendering him a deal? If he's on the team opening day, yes. It's such a high risk/low reward move. Even if it works out for this season, the process (acquire a guy who finds a way to go from bad to worse, feed him the ball until your season is cooked, tender him a cheap deal and stick him in lower leverage situations) is awful and non-repeatable. 

[milkytoast]

Please god, let him be traded soon!

[Danchat]

He better be dominant out of the gates or the front office deserves every criticism they get for this move. Bringing him back on a veteran minimum deal would be one thing, but tendering quite possibly the consistently worst reliever in baseball (going on 3 years)?! At some point real world results have to trump the projections. Don't blame Rocco when he has to use him!

[FlyingFinn]

None of this says Pagan is on the opening day roster. If he is, I won't be happy. Maybe the Twins wait until all the relievers are signed and get better value for a team desperate for a reliever who can throw hard.

[tony&rodney]

Looking towards a positive angle, perhaps retaining Pagan ($3.7M) means that the 2023 roster budget will be @$160 million. 

[ashbury]

28 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

Looking towards a positive angle, perhaps retaining Pagan ($3.7M) means that the 2023 roster budget will be @$160 million. 

Yeah.  That's us.

[Major League Ready]

31 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

Looking towards a positive angle, perhaps retaining Pagan ($3.7M) means that the 2023 roster budget will be @$160 million. 

How would the retention of a 3.7M player suggest a $20M increase in budget.  Revenue determines budgets.  Attendance was down.  Did they get a bump in revenue from a source I am not aware of?

[Blyleven2011]

I only read the headline and not the responses ,,,

Damn  what are we thinking  ...

I'll now read the responses to gauge the reaction  to the FO 's thinking  ...