Rocco Baldelli Wasn't the Problem

[sstolen]

14 hours ago, Hubie29 said:

Yes he was. At least the 1A problem.

I dont agree. Article points out system weakness and systemic failure. Rocco helped to make Buxton season among teams greatest ever

 Rocco didnt create roster situations w handfuls of players batting 240 or below. He didnt mess up Royce's swing, Royce did. Truth is that players didnt come through...some without capacity to fo so and others simply didnt.

We all know he probably had to go...like Molitor a while back and others in the future..."gotta do "something"" right?

[David Maro]

In Falvey's statement to the fans he said we both failed,so why is he still there. He should have dismissed Rocco and been man enough to resign. When managers are changed more often than not they are dismissed,very few walk away. Rocco with his daily lineup shuffle and position changing with players turned this team into a losing team. For me please finish the job and relive Falvey of his job and sell the team.

[Otaknam]

I was pretty cool on Baldelli as a game manager. He slavishly adhered to analytics at the expense of using his intuition in some situations that called for it, especially with pitchers. And his total abandonment of the run game was baffling, with a team that hit so poorly with RISP. But Falvey is more culpable because he put this roster together, made questionable trades, and had too many top draft choices struggle.  A mid market team needs to hit on HOF draft picks. And then the Pohlads cut the payroll, making it even more difficult to win and making Rocco the scapegoat. I’m happy Rocco is gone, but Falvey should be gone too. 

[Jayred]

Rocco wasn't necessarily the main problem, but hes still a terrible coach.   The combination of him and Falvey was disastrous as they are both absolutely terrible.  Maybe a good coach can help offset every terrible decision Falvey makes, but that's also a tough ask because everything Falvey does is really bad.

[Hubie29]

1 hour ago, sstolen said:

I dont agree. Article points out system weakness and systemic failure. Rocco helped to make Buxton season among teams greatest ever

 

 Rocco didnt create roster situations w handfuls of players batting 240 or below. He didnt mess up Royce's swing, Royce did. Truth is that players didnt come through...some without capacity to fo so and others simply didnt.

We all know he probably had to go...like Molitor a while back and others in the future..."gotta do "something"" right?

To credit him for Buxtons season is laughable. Then he gets credit for Outman, Wallner, Lewis and all of them. 

[JD-TWINS]

14 hours ago, DJL44 said:

“He didn’t oversee a hitting philosophy that has utterly, disastrously failed the team for the past five seasons.”

He absolutely did that. That is the manager’s responsibility.

1 hour ago, sstolen said:

I dont agree. Article points out system weakness and systemic failure. Rocco helped to make Buxton season among teams greatest ever

 Rocco didnt create roster situations w handfuls of players batting 240 or below. He didnt mess up Royce's swing, Royce did. Truth is that players didnt come through...some without capacity to fo so and others simply didnt.

We all know he probably had to go...like Molitor a while back and others in the future..."gotta do "something"" right?

So I agree that the Players play and if guys like Lewis, expected to be offensive positives, don’t perform…….the Manager can’t get that to change. Players, in many, many comments here at TD have little or no accountability. Toronto had a “down year in ‘24” and then they hired David Popkins after the Twin’s players went into a tailspin in ‘24 that got Popkins fired. Oddly enough, Toronto has 7 guys hitting .265 or higher and 4 guys at .300 or better. Either he’s a miracle worker OR the players in Toronto were able to execute ideas and approaches Popkins via coaching.

That said, I don’t see how Baldelli had much of a hand in Buxton’s very successful season. Players play!

[terrydactyls]

3 hours ago, old nurse said:

None that I saw, I did see you posting a lot of opinions

But that's the driving force behind Twins Daily.  A place to expound on theories that are supported only by your vivid imagination.  😄  For example, there have been a lot of comments this year saying that the manager is/is not responsible for player development once they have reached the major leagues.  Most of these comments are very adamant about being the truth regardless of which opinion you hold.  No one yet (to my knowledge) has provided any factual evidence to support their position.  I would love to see a management organizational tree provided by the Twins outlining which positions are the final authority for different tasks (i.e. player development, hitting philosophy, baserunning, fielding fundamentals, etc.).  Might be helpful to back up your opinions.  I know I have opinions on with whom the final authority lies for these behaviors.  But I have no factual evidence to support my thinking so I refrain from commenting.

[JD-TWINS]

23 minutes ago, Otaknam said:

I was pretty cool on Baldelli as a game manager. He slavishly adhered to analytics at the expense of using his intuition in some situations that called for it, especially with pitchers. And his total abandonment of the run game was baffling, with a team that hit so poorly with RISP. But Falvey is more culpable because he put this roster together, made questionable trades, and had too many top draft choices struggle.  A mid market team needs to hit on HOF draft picks. And then the Pohlads cut the payroll, making it even more difficult to win and making Rocco the scapegoat. I’m happy Rocco is gone, but Falvey should be gone too. 

So, Baldelli had some blame with scheme in situations or he just had players that weren’t competent to do much else? He plays percentages - A.J. Hinch, in Detroit manages the same way …….. they bunted 5 times all year and he pinch hit for Riley Greene the other day and he’s got 36 HR and is his leading RBI guy. Hi inch didn’t like the lefty v lefty matchup in the 6th inning - sound familiar?

Falvey having “questionable trades” is just baseball as the same general statement can be applied across 30 organizations when generalizing the specific. He’s had some OK trades and some not OK trades - same with FA signings.

OWNERSHIP & lack of a clearly communicated $$ approach to the FO is a huge % of the organization’s problems. Teams that spend less than Twins have had success but that’s with a specific approach in mind over many years - extreme spending cuts in payroll can’t be sudden and then have the expectation that the FO will make up for ANY & ALL issues associated with roster. Can’t extend Lopez & sign Correa (combined $56M/yr) and then CUT PAYROLL from $154M in 2023 down $20-$30M and act like it’s an easy work around.

If Team spends $135M in ‘26 they’d be back to 2022 spending and they’d have a competitive Club. Can’t trade starting pitching - couple guys need to perform at expected levels.

[JD-TWINS]

14 hours ago, T.O. said:

My big complaint about the Twins the past two years isn't the not winning. Winning is good but more important is playing well as a team, doing things well, fielding, throwing running, hitting in clutch situations. AND a manager that has good instincts about how to use the players. Before the trade deadline, although some players excelled individually at times. the Twins played like they weren't a team. After the deadline they played like a AA team that wasn't playing like a team.

The “clutch hitting” element is the magic elixir for a “good Manager”, as Players play - defensive capabilities for individuals isn’t Managed into guys (it can be a point of emphasis) as the players need to make the plays (pick up the ball & make good throws - hit cut off man, etc.). Players need to run bases correctly and with enthusiasm and hustle - players need to HIT in the clutch.

90% of Managers speaking on the topic of “their success” will state that “Good Players make Good Managers”! 

[Craig Arko]

I’d estimate he wasn’t “the” problem, but that he also wasn’t “the” solution. I remain doubtful that the change will produce significant improvement in 2026.

[old nurse]

38 minutes ago, terrydactyls said:

But that's the driving force behind Twins Daily.  A place to expound on theories that are supported only by your vivid imagination.  😄  For example, there have been a lot of comments this year saying that the manager is/is not responsible for player development once they have reached the major leagues.  Most of these comments are very adamant about being the truth regardless of which opinion you hold.  No one yet (to my knowledge) has provided any factual evidence to support their position.  I would love to see a management organizational tree provided by the Twins outlining which positions are the final authority for different tasks (i.e. player development, hitting philosophy, baserunning, fielding fundamentals, etc.).  Might be helpful to back up your opinions.  I know I have opinions on with whom the final authority lies for these behaviors.  But I have no factual evidence to support my thinking so I refrain from commenting.

The comments I have made on ,player development have never said that the manager is not responsible. It is pointing out that after years of coaching and the player good at something perhaps it is not the coaching. Sorry people here can’t seem to grasp that concept. When somebody’s is stating an opinion and it is countered with there is no objective data, they should be providing objective data for their opinion. When you demand something of someone else and don’t provide it yourself, you should be called out for that. Sorry that is also a concept that people here will not understand 

[Doctor Gast]

Was Baldelli the main problem? No. Was Baldelli the scapegoat? Yes, he was. Falvey was the main problem. Falvey said he'll take personal responsibility for the failure. How did he do that? He fired Baldelli!? How is that taking personal responsibility for the fiasco? He should have resigned. Should Baldelli have been fired? IMO, yes. If Falvey doesn't resign, does it make any difference? No, it doesn't. Falvey signed Baldelli & Baldelli is very aligned with Falvey. Falvey will pick the next manager who'll most likely be like Baldelli or worse, especially if Falvey wants a say in the coaches the next manager will select. 

[bean5302]

4 hours ago, sstolen said:

I dont agree. Article points out system weakness and systemic failure. Rocco helped to make Buxton season among teams greatest ever

 Rocco didnt create roster situations w handfuls of players batting 240 or below. He didnt mess up Royce's swing, Royce did. Truth is that players didnt come through...some without capacity to fo so and others simply didnt.

We all know he probably had to go...like Molitor a while back and others in the future..."gotta do "something"" right?

I don't see a significant difference in the quality of the roster between Cleveland and Minnesota the last couple years. What their managers got out of their teams is a huge difference.

[stringer bell]

27 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

I don't see a significant difference in the quality of the roster between Cleveland and Minnesota the last couple years. What their managers got out of their teams is a huge difference.

The Guards team fits together better IMHO and their one superstar plays every day and offers value even when he goes 0fer. Add in that guys like Bo Naylor and Schleeman absolutely kill the Twins head to head and there is the difference. 

[stringer bell]

BTW, I don't believe any manager could have made chicken salad out of the roster after the trade deadline. I don't blame Baldelli for the poor record after August 1. If the Twins had gone 10-2, (they were 4-8) in the twelve games after the break, they might have done things differently, but now the team is reconfiguring, if not rebuilding.

[USAFChief]

41 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

The Guards team fits together better IMHO and their one superstar plays every day and offers value even when he goes 0fer. Add in that guys like Bo Naylor and Schleeman absolutely kill the Twins head to head and there is the difference. 

The Guardians are like 446-1 in close games vs the Twins in recent years. That's not just all luck. Part of that is Baldelli getting owned.

[PatPfund]

Rocco WAS a major part of the problem, and deserved to be fired. His teams were consistently mediocre/bad on defense for a manager who didn't believe in team defensive drills. His 'do your own thing' methodology was good for vets with established routines, but often left younger players like Lewis and Martin struggling. And "at the end of the day" his teams had three of the worst September collapses in team history over the past 4 years. FYI, comparing win percentages with Kelly and Gardenhire is ridiculous; Rocco's Twins had more financial resources thrown at them than in any other manager's term. There are indeed multiple ways to inspire a team, but given decent players Kelly won two World Series, while Rocco managed three total playoff wins in 7 years. Leadership in his successful years came from Nelson Cruz and Carlos Correa, not the manager's office. This was a needed step one in rebuilding a competitive team.

[CoachDW]

Whether his managerial moves were largely dictated by Derek Falvey or not, to declare that Rocco Baldelli was not at least a PART of the problem with the Minnesota Twins is just incomprehensible. He was simply a very poor in-game major league manager who should have been fired after the 2024 fiasco. That Derek Falvey brought him back at all (and then extended his contract) shows just how truly inept Falvey is at his job. Falvey needs to follow Rocco out the door, and the sooner the better. 

[JD-TWINS]

3 hours ago, bean5302 said:

I don't see a significant difference in the quality of the roster between Cleveland and Minnesota the last couple years. What their managers got out of their teams is a huge difference.

To me, this year, the difference is the Twins gave up. When Cleveland was 15 1/2 out of first place Minnesota was 14 games out. If the Twins add a guy at the deadline & still move Paddack & Dobnack ……… maybe Stewart if they felt compelled. With same roster and 58 games left, they had a shot to get to 87-88 wins……even with the mediocre results to the end of July.

[killertwinfan]

There was a typo in your title.  It was supposed to say Rocco wasn’t the only problem. 

[Kevin Sheehan]

I'm late to the party. There are many comments and I don't wanna sound too redundant.  The bottom line to me is we have a 26 man active roster. Rocco is in charge. The fish ALWAYS stinks from the head. Rookies regress, we consistently would miss the cut-off, pitchers can't field and the solution is 45 mins for 2 days (I think), can't sacrifice, can't go oppo with 2 strikes, infield in when a double play gets us out of an inning, no consistent lineups.. I'm digressing but my memory recalls gardenhire dropping Morneau to #6 when a lefty pitched. Other than that my recollection was the lineup was consistent. Buxton batting leadoff is silly. At least bat him second. If he hits a grounder with a runner on he won't get doubled up. To me some of this is common sense. I could go on. Bottom line and tho I have respect for every Major League Manager, the message has to change and he has to go. 

[TwinsChupacabra]

The only Twins manager that was close to as bad as Rocco was, was Ray Miller.

[Firehall]

Rocco's complete dependence on stats in every situation often failed. Scouting, drafting, stats are crucial. In game situations are dominated by variables that constantly change, impacted by each players skill set, field conditions,  weather, lighting, and more. He refused to consider this most times. His players often appeared unaware of game situations that many good local high school teams deal with easily.  The suicide squeeze bunt is a tremendous weapon he gave up due to stats instead of developing it for crucial situations as an ace in the hole. Hitters have to love to hit, relish each at bat and want to be in the batters box with the game on the line, ala Gibson or Puckett. Who was that person this year? Maybe Keaschal. Saw Zoilo and Jim Kaat in 61, been a fan since.

[LastOnePicked]

"And there are more ways to inspire people outside of yelling."

I'm going to set aside this old strawman argument (for the record, almost no one was asking Rocco to flip chairs and tables - let's put this nonsense to rest) and just point out that you seem to have nailed Rocco's problem without realizing it: his teams played profoundly uninspired baseball.

Again, highest payrolls in the AL Central. Top-ranked farm systems. Routinely picked in preseason and midseason predictions to be an AL Central Championship team or a playoff team. Flop, flop, flop. Over and over again. People love to say that his 2023 team broke the record playoff losing streak while conveniently forgetting that his tenure here actually set that record.

Rocco absolutely was a part of the problem here ... and he may actually have been THE problem.

 

[PuckettProtector]

I guess you could call this a hot take. A steaming pile of a hot take.

[nicksaviking]

I'm not sure how his managing approach was "hands-off and laid back". He was very hands-on from what I could tell. Pinch hitting for left handed hitters in the 3rd inning. Pinch running his best hitters on 1st base with 2 outs in the 7th for a runner that was only minimally faster.

These were kind of Baldelli staples, and I think his over-managing was the biggest reason this team couldn't develop young offensive players. Maybe we'll find out it was all the fault of the front office, or maybe we'll never find out, but the odds say that Baldelli should have been able to make lemonade out of at least a few of those lemons, but he repeatedly proved unable to do so.

[RpR]

37 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I'm not sure how his managing approach was "hands-off and laid back". He was very hands-on from what I could tell. Pinch hitting for left handed hitters in the 3rd inning. Pinch running his best hitters on 1st base with 2 outs in the 7th for a runner that was only minimally faster.

Those were technically minor nit-picks, his not forcing the players to learn basic high-school level baseball skills was his , hands-off BS, taking its toll.

[farmerguychris]

Good article and thanks for putting on paper what many fans don't want to hear.  He didn't pick his team- but he did the best he could with who he was handed.  

I don't believe any living manager could have done any better when it comes to end of season records than Baldelli did.

[USAFChief]

6 minutes ago, farmerguychris said:

Good article and thanks for putting on paper what many fans don't want to hear.  He didn't pick his team- but he did the best he could with who he was handed.  

I don't believe any living manager could have done any better when it comes to end of season records than Baldelli did.

Your first mistake is focusing on only the final couple months of Baldelli's tenure.

Widen your view. He managed here for years. 

Managed poorly.

[Linus]

To say Rocco wasnt the problem is nonsensical. You could say he wasn’t the only problem and I would say Falvey is a bigger problem but there is a mountain of evidence that most of his teams underperformed. The lack of basic fundamentals in the field and on the bases was inexcusable (and very damning on the minor league system) but Rocco made out the lineups and kept playing guys that constantly made mistakes.