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Posted

Pitching wins division championships. Or something like that.

Image courtesy of William Parmeter

When I look over the Twins roster, I see a lot of cause for concern on the position-player side. Minnesota has a nucleus of potentially elite bats in Carlos Correa, Byron Buxton and Royce Lewis, but none have shown much ability to stay healthy. The lineup is otherwise littered with question marks, and during the offseason there was minimal effort to supplement this group with additional firepower, even as one of their most reliable bats exited via free agency.

That said, I'm bullishly optimistic the offense can be at least good enough. The fact that Correa, Buxton and Lewis all arrived at camp 100% healthy bodes well. Trevor Larnach, Matt Wallner, Ryan Jeffers and Willi Castro have been quality hitters. There's some good young talent on hand, albeit with much to prove. The realist in me says we're probably going to see more of guys like Harrison Bader and Austin Martin in the lineup this year than we'd like to, but I also think the team can live with it.

The Twins don't need their offense to be gangbusters like it was in 2019. They just need to score enough to support a pitching staff that can hopefully pave Minnesota's path to 90-plus wins and a division title. Derek Falvey was brought in from Cleveland to build a pitching machine and now it's primed to be their defining strength in a pivotal 2025 season.

Here's a truism about baseball that can't be denied: When you routinely get five or six solid innings from your starting pitcher, and turn it over to a shutdown bullpen, you're going to win a lot of ballgames. Stymy the opposing offenses enough, and the success of your offense becomes almost immaterial. 

Of the top eight MLB teams in ERA last year, seven made the playoffs. All 12 teams that reached the postseason ranked in the top half of the league in ERA. 

This includes a Cleveland team that won 92 games despite ranking 17th in the wOBA. Detroit ranked 25th in wOBA and still managed to sneak in thanks to a staff that ranked fourth in ERA (on the shoulders of Cy Young winner Tarik Skubal). 

The Twins are coming into this season with relatively good health and booming optimism on the pitching front. Few if any teams can rival their top three starters in Pablo Lopez, Bailey Ober and Joe Ryan. Chris Paddack managed to hang around through the offseason (so far), and beyond these vets there are numerous promising young arms who've already begun to establish themselves in the majors. The bullpen, meanwhile, has all the makings of a lockdown unit and a formidable point of advantage, with Jhoan Duran, Griffin Jax, Cole Sands and newcomer Danny Coulombe giving them an assortment of high-leverage options beyond their solid middle-innings crew. 

I'm not naive enough to think there won't be health attrition on the pitching side, even with all the positive early-camp signs. In addition to the frontline talent leading the rotation and relief corps, there's enough depth that the Twins can sustain a few injuries and still come out very well in both areas. 

You've gotta score to win in baseball — hey, another truism — and the Twins should have what it takes to at least hold their own under new hitting coach Matt Borgschulte. But a deep rotation and consistent bullpen, capable of keeping opposing lineups bottled up day after day, is the most dependable formula for winning in baseball. 

That's what the Twins are counting on, and they're not alone in their belief that it can punch their ticket. Minnesota is projected as the AL Central's best team at FanGraphs and is favored to win the division in Vegas, despite last year's fourth-place finish and bettors being well aware of the injury concerns plaguing their best offensive players.

Why? It's simple: The Twins look like the division's clear front-runners in the arms race.


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Posted

While I  totally agree that 90 wins should win the Central,  in the playoffs your opponent usually has equally good pitching if not better. The team that scores more runs in each game wins 100% of the time, hence the need for better offense which the Twins did not address.

Posted
11 minutes ago, gmwannabe said:

While I  totally agree that 90 wins should win the Central,  in the playoffs your opponent usually has equally good pitching if not better. The team that scores more runs in each game wins 100% of the time, hence the need for better offense which the Twins did not address.

Good thing there is time between now and the playoffs starting to assess and make potential transactions then, right?

Posted

We look good on paper, IMO Fangraph has figured in the injuries. Hopefully, injuries will have less of an impact, which should even help our chances. If we eliminate our biggest defensive problem (Julien) that should help our cause even more. If Miranda is left at 1B/ DH & kept away from 3B that will help us offensively along with if France finds himself. Last season SP depth was lacking which paid an early toll on Paddack then later Ryan on the IL. Simmy along with Festa & Matthews were over-stretched & put forth less than desired innings at the end but did not break. This season I expect a very strong Lopez, Ober & Ryan along with more seasoned rookies. Expect SWR & Paddack to start the season in the rotation but hope Festa & Matthews used a lot to spell them.  The BP is ranked the best so we'll have to see.

But reality normally doesn't agree with what's on paper. There are too many intangibles, like management, like keep on playing acquired veterans over & over again when they stink, leadership, chemistry etc. But I'm hopeful that young players like Miranda, Martin & Keirsey will take that extra step when called upon. With that I'm hopeful that management will end up making the right decisions & put forth the best team w/o bias to win the division & advance into the postseason.

Posted
40 minutes ago, Aerodeliria said:

Good pitching wins games but bad defense loses games. I hope the defense is better than it appears, but time will tell. Last year's September meltdown was an all around mess, but the defense cost the Twins several games (back-to-back in Tampa).

I’ll add on here a little.  Good pitching means more lower scoring games where a defensive mistake is even worse.  Hopefully the defense can be competent.

Posted

Nick addresses the primary issues.  90 wins is possible IF:
1) The big 3 SP stay healthy enough to make 25 starts each.
2) The mixture of SWR, Paddack, Festa, and Matthews pitch close to SP4/SP5 quality.
3) Correa, Buxton, Lewis stay healthy enough to play 125 games each.
4) Larnach, Wallner, Castro, Jeffers, Miranda all have OPS+ over 100

There are a lot of IFs, but nothing that unattainable.  I think the Twins margin for error right now is extremely small.  If any of of the above mentioned items do not happen, the Twins chances for 80 wins (much less 90) drop exceedingly fast.

Posted

Pitching should be the strength of this team. We've got more legitimate depth than we've had in a long time, especially with near MLB ready pitchers. The offense and defense in the real question mark. If our big 3 of Buxton, Correa and Lewis can stay healthy for long chunks of the season we might be ok. I still think we need one more big bat, most likely at first base. Maybe if we have new owners by the trade deadline, and we're in a position to go for it, they make a splash and grab an impact bat. As always, healthy will be a major factor in the teams success this year.

Posted
26 minutes ago, Linus said:

I’ll add on here a little.  Good pitching means more lower scoring games where a defensive mistake is even worse.  Hopefully the defense can be competent.

The assumed starting defense is really looking spotty. Let's not forget Buxton has lost a few steps and is now merely a good CF, bookended by an atrocious Wallner and a barely adequate Larnach. 

Posted (edited)

I'll take great pitching any day. And I'm happy to see a stacked pitching corps. But the team also needs to score runs. I played with some numbers to compare the Twins, Guardians, and Tigers. 

The Twins had 61 games where they scored fewer than 3 runs and only won 21.3% of those games. The Guards by comparison had 55 under 3 games of which they won 27.3%. The Tigers, who had great pitching, were in between and had 59 games with 28.8% wins. So in both cases, not only did the other two have fewer low scoring games, but they won more of those low scoring games than the Twins. 

Looking at just 1 run games. The Twins had 15, all of which they lost. The Guardians had 11 and lost all of theirs too. The Tigers had 21 1-run games but they won 3 of theirs. Had the Twins won just one of theirs, they would have made the playoffs (EDIT... Royals tied for second, not the Twins... whoops). 

A little more shockingly, the Twins had more 2 run games than the other two (25) and lost all but one of those. Meanwhile, Guardians went 5-17 and the Tigers went 7-11. 

Interesting that the Twins had a winning percentage of 57.1% on 3 run games, indicating that they DID have good pitching when they needed it, but a full 40 of their games -- almost 25% of games -- they gave their pitchers almost zero chance of getting the win. Bob Gibson wouldn't be able to save them in most of those cases.

So... Yes, better pitching would have made the difference last year (if they were able to scrape even just one more win from a 1 or 2 run game). But had they made the playoffs, the better teams would have likely walked all them when a collapsed offense means your pitchers have to be perfect. 

It'll be an interesting year. Small market teams can't have it all. Hopefully they score a couple more runs AND have lights out pitching. 

Edited by Muppet
mistake
Posted
50 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Nick addresses the primary issues.  90 wins is possible IF:
1) The big 3 SP stay healthy enough to make 25 starts each.
2) The mixture of SWR, Paddack, Festa, and Matthews pitch close to SP4/SP5 quality.
3) Correa, Buxton, Lewis stay healthy enough to play 125 games each.
4) Larnach, Wallner, Castro, Jeffers, Miranda all have OPS+ over 100

There are a lot of IFs, but nothing that unattainable.  I think the Twins margin for error right now is extremely small.  If any of of the above mentioned items do not happen, the Twins chances for 80 wins (much less 90) drop exceedingly fast.

It seems to me like two ways to score an overabundance of runs are either through speed on the base path or one of the top home run teams. 

I don't see the speed so I'm hoping the big bats start hitting the long ball this year. 

Posted
26 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

The assumed starting defense is really looking spotty. Let's not forget Buxton has lost a few steps and is now merely a good CF, bookended by an atrocious Wallner and a barely adequate Larnach. 

Wallner was 0 DRS last season (and -2 for his career), and right in the middle of the pack for players with more than 300 OF innings last season. Trevor Larnach was also 0 DRS

I'm not going to tell you he's a GOOD defender, but "atrocious" in inaccurate. 

Austin Martin, however, WAS atrocious. 

image.png.80471d5a6dd54d0fef3b6438424a589e.png

Posted

I'll be curious to see if this team does better in extra-inning game this season? they out-scored their opponents 77-74 in extras last season but went 5-9. 

Better performance in inter-league games would certainly make a difference, and it looks like there was some bad luck there too: 18-28 record but only got out-scored by 15 runs. Need to do better against a team like Miami, where they were even on runs in the 3 game set, but lost 2 out of 3.

The pitching depth really does look good this season, and a little decent luck injury-wise will make a huge difference. there's a lot to like about this Twins team: the rotation and the bullpen both look good and deep. there's all-star talent at multiple positions. It's also a very likable bunch of players, which certainly doesn't hurt: it's very easy to root for guys like Buxton, Lewis, Jeffers, Wallner, Castro, Lopez, Ryan, Ober, Jax, etc

Hope springs eternal for baseball in February. Looking forward to talking about what the Twins are doing on the field ASAP and less about the payroll and ownership.

Posted
26 minutes ago, Muppet said:

I'll take great pitching any day. And I'm happy to see a stacked pitching corps. But the team also needs to score runs. I played with some numbers to compare the Twins, Guardians, and Tigers. 

The Twins had 61 games where they scored fewer than 3 runs and only won 21.3% of those games. The Guards by comparison had 55 under 3 games of which they won 27.3%. The Tigers, who had great pitching, were in between and had 59 games with 28.8% wins. So in both cases, not only did the other two have fewer low scoring games, but they won more of those low scoring games than the Twins. 

Looking at just 1 run games. The Twins had 15, all of which they lost. The Guardians had 11 and lost all of theirs too. The Tigers had 21 1-run games but they won 3 of theirs. Had the Twins won just one of theirs, they would have made the playoffs (EDIT... Royals tied for second, not the Twins... whoops). 

A little more shockingly, the Twins had more 2 run games than the other two (25) and lost all but one of those. Meanwhile, Guardians went 5-17 and the Tigers went 7-11. 

Interesting that the Twins had a winning percentage of 57.1% on 3 run games, indicating that they DID have good pitching when they needed it, but a full 40 of their games -- almost 25% of games -- they gave their pitchers almost zero chance of getting the win. Bob Gibson wouldn't be able to save them in most of those cases.

So... Yes, better pitching would have made the difference last year (if they were able to scrape even just one more win from a 1 or 2 run game). But had they made the playoffs, the better teams would have likely walked all them when a collapsed offense means your pitchers have to be perfect. 

It'll be an interesting year. Small market teams can't have it all. Hopefully they score a couple more runs AND have lights out pitching. 

These are interesting numbers.  Thanks for compiling them.  Of course they can be parsed a bunch of different ways like lack of situational hitting that would push them over the top.  I would also guess if we looked at those games we would find a mistake on the bases or in the field that cost us that all important run.

Posted
43 minutes ago, Muppet said:

I'll take great pitching any day. And I'm happy to see a stacked pitching corps. But the team also needs to score runs. I played with some numbers to compare the Twins, Guardians, and Tigers. 

The Twins had 61 games where they scored fewer than 3 runs and only won 21.3% of those games. The Guards by comparison had 55 under 3 games of which they won 27.3%. The Tigers, who had great pitching, were in between and had 59 games with 28.8% wins. So in both cases, not only did the other two have fewer low scoring games, but they won more of those low scoring games than the Twins. 

Looking at just 1 run games. The Twins had 15, all of which they lost. The Guardians had 11 and lost all of theirs too. The Tigers had 21 1-run games but they won 3 of theirs. Had the Twins won just one of theirs, they would have made the playoffs (EDIT... Royals tied for second, not the Twins... whoops). 

A little more shockingly, the Twins had more 2 run games than the other two (25) and lost all but one of those. Meanwhile, Guardians went 5-17 and the Tigers went 7-11. 

 

Interesting.... and said a bit more simply....

The Twins only won 1 game all season where they scored less than 3 runs. 

That's actually pretty amazing.

Posted
46 minutes ago, Muppet said:

I'll take great pitching any day. And I'm happy to see a stacked pitching corps. But the team also needs to score runs. I played with some numbers to compare the Twins, Guardians, and Tigers. 

The Twins had 61 games where they scored fewer than 3 runs and only won 21.3% of those games. The Guards by comparison had 55 under 3 games of which they won 27.3%. The Tigers, who had great pitching, were in between and had 59 games with 28.8% wins. So in both cases, not only did the other two have fewer low scoring games, but they won more of those low scoring games than the Twins. 

Looking at just 1 run games. The Twins had 15, all of which they lost. The Guardians had 11 and lost all of theirs too. The Tigers had 21 1-run games but they won 3 of theirs. Had the Twins won just one of theirs, they would have made the playoffs (EDIT... Royals tied for second, not the Twins... whoops). 

A little more shockingly, the Twins had more 2 run games than the other two (25) and lost all but one of those. Meanwhile, Guardians went 5-17 and the Tigers went 7-11. 

Interesting that the Twins had a winning percentage of 57.1% on 3 run games, indicating that they DID have good pitching when they needed it, but a full 40 of their games -- almost 25% of games -- they gave their pitchers almost zero chance of getting the win. Bob Gibson wouldn't be able to save them in most of those cases.

So... Yes, better pitching would have made the difference last year (if they were able to scrape even just one more win from a 1 or 2 run game). But had they made the playoffs, the better teams would have likely walked all them when a collapsed offense means your pitchers have to be perfect. 

It'll be an interesting year. Small market teams can't have it all. Hopefully they score a couple more runs AND have lights out pitching. 

Just checked the numbers compared to the 95 Braves, which is the best pithing team in my memory (3 HOF starting pitchers all in their prime!). Interestingly, they won with fewer 1 and 2 run games (16 and 13 respectively) than the Twins (25 and 15). They did, however win 9 out of 29 of those games (9-20). They also won 15 of 25 of their 3 run games (15-10) making them an almost impossible to beat team. They both had fewer low scoring games AND they were harder to beat on those games. So in the 95 Braves case, they had better offense and better pitching than the Twins.  So for the Twins to make this a world series year, Buxton, Correa, Lewis, and maybe even Julien, Miranda, and Wallner will all be competing for AL MVP. It could happen. 

Posted
13 minutes ago, amjgt said:

Interesting.... and said a bit more simply....

The Twins only won 1 game all season where they scored less than 3 runs. 

That's actually pretty amazing.

Even more amazing is that when we add zero run games, the Twins had 50 games where they had next to zero chance of winning. That's almost 30% of games that are sure losses. I don't know how much that compares to other teams, but you'd hope to win at least 15% of 1 to 2 run games. 

Posted

Loved the article, Nick.  Also got a good smile out of a lot of the comments.  Thanks guys!

Don't have a clue whether or not they will win 90 or more.  Also don't know if that will win the Central.  What I do know is they gotta play the games for us to find out.  With the Twins being available all over our television sets this summer, its gonna be a good one.

Posted
1 hour ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Nick addresses the primary issues.  90 wins is possible IF:
1) The big 3 SP stay healthy enough to make 25 starts each.
2) The mixture of SWR, Paddack, Festa, and Matthews pitch close to SP4/SP5 quality.
3) Correa, Buxton, Lewis stay healthy enough to play 125 games each.
4) Larnach, Wallner, Castro, Jeffers, Miranda all have OPS+ over 100

There are a lot of IFs, but nothing that unattainable.  I think the Twins margin for error right now is extremely small.  If any of of the above mentioned items do not happen, the Twins chances for 80 wins (much less 90) drop exceedingly fast.

If all these things happen they'll win 100 games. 

Posted
48 minutes ago, amjgt said:

Wallner was 0 DRS last season (and -2 for his career), and right in the middle of the pack for players with more than 300 OF innings last season. Trevor Larnach was also 0 DRS

I'm not going to tell you he's a GOOD defender, but "atrocious" in inaccurate. 

Austin Martin, however, WAS atrocious. 

image.png.80471d5a6dd54d0fef3b6438424a589e.png

That's one good metric. OAA is another, but the one that I find so fascinating, probably since it's so easily understood, is outfield jump from Statcast. Thank you to which ever TD author wrote about that metric recently. Of the 180 OF last year that met a certain minimum, Wallner covered more ground than only 2 other outfielders. And that is consistent with 2023, where he was 177th out of 181. 

He must be a bit better at the catch point than some of those comparable outfielders, because he's not as quite bad as Yordan Alvarez or Kyle Schwarber. But he's definitely not covering much ground out there. 

Feet covered in 3 seconds: 

Bader, Harrison 35.8
Buxton, Byron 35.8
Castro, Willi 35.1
Kepler, Max 33.3
Margot, Manuel 33.2
Martin, Austin 32.3
Larnach, Trevor 31.7
Kirilloff, Alex 31.4
Wallner, Matt 29.2
Posted

OK. One more attempt to beat the dead horse of small numbers. 

Looking at the 24 Guardians, Tigers, and Twins. Also including the LA Dodgers (WS) and 95 Braves (possibly best pitching team in modern baseball) for comparison.

I always like to think that if the team can score 3 runs, then they give their pitchers (if they are very good) a chance to win the game. So I ordered this list by games. 

3 runs scored        
  G W L Pct
95 Braves 25 15 10 0.600
Twins 21 12 9 0.571
Guardians 22 10 12 0.455
LAD 20 9 11 0.450
Tigers 20 7 13 0.350

So, when scoring 3 runs, the Twins actually did a pretty good job of winning coming in at just below the best pitching team in recent history. Good job Bailey, Joe, and Pablo (and Baldelli for leaving Pagan out of these games). They even beat out all of the other teams that pummeled them in the standings last season. 

 

So since scoring less than three runs shifts the blame to hitters rather than pitchers, I ordered these by  number of games (yellow highlighting the best win percentage and brownish highlighting the second best win pct). 

1-2 runs scored        
  G W L Pct
Twins 40 1 39 0.025
Tigers 39 10 29 0.256
Guardians 33 5 28 0.152
95 Braves 29 9 20 0.310
LAD 29 4 25 0.138

Here's where the differences that separate out the winning teams from losers start to be apparent. The Twins led this pack with 40 games with 1 or 2 runs scored. AND they won the fewest of these games. Bob Gibson would have lost a lot of these games, but not all of them... as can be seen by the 95 Braves winning 31%. For me, in these games, we can't possibly blame the pitching no matter how good it was. 

Finally, when we add 0 runs scored to those 1-2 run games it becomes clear that the way to win games is to score at least some runs. 
 

0-2 runs scored        
  G W L Pct
Tigers 54 10 44 0.185
Twins 50 1 49 0.020
Guardians 48 5 43 0.104
LAD 34 4 30 0.118
95 Braves 33 9 24 0.273

The Twins were only more pathetic than the Tigers in that the Tigers actually managed to win 10 of these games. The best pitchers in the world won the highest percent, but ultimately managed to win the world series by only getting into this situation 33 times. Same with the Dodgers. 

Great pitching only matters when your hitters aren't terrible. But after you score a few runs... that pitching makes a big difference.  A lot of numbers and spreadsheets to explain something we all probably already knew. 


Thanks to coming to my Ted Talk. I have to go work now. 

 

 

 

Posted
2 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Nick addresses the primary issues.  90 wins is possible IF:
1) The big 3 SP stay healthy enough to make 25 starts each.
2) The mixture of SWR, Paddack, Festa, and Matthews pitch close to SP4/SP5 quality.
3) Correa, Buxton, Lewis stay healthy enough to play 125 games each.
4) Larnach, Wallner, Castro, Jeffers, Miranda all have OPS+ over 100

There are a lot of IFs, but nothing that unattainable.  I think the Twins margin for error right now is extremely small.  If any of of the above mentioned items do not happen, the Twins chances for 80 wins (much less 90) drop exceedingly fast.

I think this is right on although I think the floor is a little higher (around 80 wins).  The pieces are there IF they all or mostly perform. We could have one of the group in #4 fall off if Bader, Martin, etc. are at least league average or slightly better. The top 3 points pretty much have to happen though for the Twins to win 90 plus games. A 2 or 3 month injury to any of the top 3 starters, Correa, Lewis, or Buxton, probably dooms the season. 2 of the "other 4" potential starting pitchers have to perform at an average or better level or we also have big problems. 

With that said I'm actually pretty optimistic that we will win 85+ games with our pitching and could hit 90-94 wins if everything comes together. The talent is there but the margin for error is small. The real question is health. 

Posted
18 minutes ago, Nick Nelson said:

If all these things happen they'll win 100 games. 

You are incredibly more optimistic than I am.  Last year:

1) The big 3 SP combined for 86 starts, with Ryan ending with 23.
2) SWR, Paddack, and Festa all had positive WAR and ERA+ of 99, 85, and 83 respectively.
3) None of these 3 hit 125 games, Only Buxton played 100.
4) All of my listed names had OPS+ over 100.

Last year's team won 82 games.  You are telling me that if everyone back repeats what they did last year, 25 more games played from Buxton 40 more games from Lewis and Correa would result in an increase of 18 wins?  I am not even addressing the nearly 5 WAR lost in Santana and Kepler that was not really replaced...

 

Posted

The Twins have a good pitching staff.

The Twins have some decent bats.

The Twins don't run; they have a slow team.

The Twins are a below average team defensively.

The Twins can win 90 games if their pitchers are really good and their bats support the pitching.

Expect 83-87 wins, which could be enough to win the division.

Posted
52 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

That's one good metric. OAA is another, but the one that I find so fascinating, probably since it's so easily understood, is outfield jump from Statcast. Thank you to which ever TD author wrote about that metric recently. Of the 180 OF last year that met a certain minimum, Wallner covered more ground than only 2 other outfielders. And that is consistent with 2023, where he was 177th out of 181. 

He must be a bit better at the catch point than some of those comparable outfielders, because he's not as quite bad as Yordan Alvarez or Kyle Schwarber. But he's definitely not covering much ground out there. 

On a related note, it's weird to me that both DRS and OAA don't have decimal places (they obviously do, but they aren't shown)

Imagine if we reported WAR or WPA in just integers. 

Posted
40 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

You are incredibly more optimistic than I am.  Last year:

1) The big 3 SP combined for 86 starts, with Ryan ending with 23.
2) SWR, Paddack, and Festa all had positive WAR and ERA+ of 99, 85, and 83 respectively.
3) None of these 3 hit 125 games, Only Buxton played 100.
4) All of my listed names had OPS+ over 100.

Last year's team won 82 games.  You are telling me that if everyone back repeats what they did last year, 25 more games played from Buxton 40 more games from Lewis and Correa would result in an increase of 18 wins?  I am not even addressing the nearly 5 WAR lost in Santana and Kepler that was not really replaced...

 

Yes

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