It Sounds Like the Twins Have Big Plans for Ty France

[ashbury]

17 minutes ago, arby58 said:

What did you think last year when they signed Carlos Santana? How about when they signed Brock Stewart? Willi Castro? Each of them had 'cast-off' references.

It's pretty insulting to suggest that paid professional baseball talent evaluators are as you describe them.

Are your questions as rhetorical as mine was?

Santana met my low expectations for him.  Castro has exceeded my even lower expectations.  Stewart has been quite good, "when healthy."  

And the FO, perhaps in tandem with ownership, has under-achieved what I had hoped for 8 years ago.  If a gentle bit of humor is "insulting," then Derek needs to grow thicker skin, but I'm pretty sure he'd take my highlighting a bad move from a year ago in stride.  Perhaps by throwing Thad under the bus for constructing and advocating that particular Dodger trade, but in stride.

[DocBauer]

13 minutes ago, arby58 said:

What did you think last year when they signed Carlos Santana? How about when they signed Brock Stewart? Willi Castro? Each of them had 'cast-off' references.

It's pretty insulting to suggest that paid professional baseball talent evaluators are as you describe them.

I fully admit that in MY case, Santana exceeded my expectations in 2024. I think that's true for most of us. And until he stepped up in ST 2023 and made the club. I don't think ANYONE saw Castro suddenly maturing in to a good ML player. And honestly, I didn't know who Stewart was until he performed well. 

It frustrates me when the Twins bring in a "who" flier in the offseason and those signings are met with a certain amount of chagrin. EVERY team in MLB brings those fliers in for competition and to fill out their AAA rosters. SOMETIMES you get a surprise. Santana, Castro, and Stewart are recent examples that have paid off.

In a recent OP about Rizzo and Turner, I made a somewhat flippant comment that I'd rather they sign France as a 30yo bounce back candidate vs a player who is toast, and another who is 40yo and on a downturn. Guess I sorta got my "wish", LOL.

France is a bit of a late bloomer who had 2 really solid seasons with Seattle, and 2 somewhat mediocre seasons. My expectations for him are low. His early 2024 season numbers before injury give me SOME hope he might turn things around. Again, at a not old 30yo, we often see guys fade due to whatever reasons, and then rebound. So I don't hate his signing as a flier. Maybe he's healthy and surprises. It happens! My consternation is A] even if he does well, why should he replace Miranda, limiting his growth and potential, as the primary 1B, B] will we end up with another Gallo/Farmer/Margot situation where they stubbornly refuse to cut him if he's not performing well because he's a veteran. 

Just my $.02.

[HerbieFan]

1 hour ago, DocBauer said:

He can also be one of/the primary DH and hard work has turned him in to a passable/average 3B. But I agree his best spot, with work and experience, is 1B. And unless France proves to be measurably better there, it should be Miranda.

100% agree.  He maybe gets a little work at 3B.  I just wish they'd commit to him as a 1B and give him the time to work at it....whether that's with the big club or in St.Paul

[Whitey333]

Wallner getting platooned and pinch hit for when facing lefties comes with a double edge sword.  Yes hecstruggles with it but I believe he only had like 18 or so at bats against lefties all year.  So how do you improve when you are not given a chance?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

My guess is Ty France is unimpressive in spring training, and is then cut. Maybe sticks around and plays in St. Paul. 

[Brandon]

2 hours ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Manuel Margot and Joey Gallo say hi

Touché!

[AKTwinsFan]

If we get anything close to the 23' season then we're good. He's a good defender while playing for Seattle. I was surprised they let him go, he ended up being the martar for their loss of offense. But it was a systemic issue, hopefully we get the all star France.

[CRF]

From what Rocco is saying right now, it looks like we'll be seeing quite a bit of France this season (Not sure about the other European countries)🤪. France will be at 1st base pretty regularly.  Whether that turns out to be good or bad, remains to be seen. I really don't think that we needed to sign France at all. Does that pretty much make Miranda and Julien the platoon DH's? Or are they in StP? 

[LewFordLives]

12 hours ago, ashbury said:

I'd be curious to know more of the context of those comments. Maybe Rocco was referring to the coming weeks before Opening Day?

 

Yeah, I'm curious about that statement as well. It has to mean in the context of spring training. He's on a contingent contract. Evidently the front office doesn't see him as a sure thing.

[Riverbrian]

58 minutes ago, CRF said:

From what Rocco is saying right now, it looks like we'll be seeing quite a bit of France this season (Not sure about the other European countries

[Riverbrian]

I'm going to try and keep my jaw from hitting the floor.

Words are Words... Actions are actions. 

Managers need to be supportive when discussing his players... especially before anything has happened so supportive words are not surprising... although the no-platoon part is detail I wouldn't have expected. 

Rocco's words read like France is vital. France's contract sounds like he might or might not make the team. 

Actions will determine what these words meant.  Gonna have to wait to find out how he is indeed deployed.  

Hope he does well. It's in my best interest that he does well. 

[Fezig]

I just hope France doesn't start something he can't finish. Just can't trust the French...

[chpettit19]

I hope he's a 120 OPS+ player again. I wanted them to go after him last year as a potential bounce back. But he didn't bounce back. Maybe it was the injury. The Twins signing him to a non-guaranteed deal suggests they don't believe as much as Rocco sounds like he does. But part of that is just that you always try to sign a guy for as cheap as possible. So, really, it's the rest of the league that doesn't believe.

I don't know what France is going to do. I hope he does great. I don't expect him to, but it's a possibility. Miranda can still get lots of DH PAs, assuming Bader truly is just the Buxton backup and platoon corner guy and doesn't push Larnach to the DH spot. Injuries will happen and free up some other PAs. I don't like the offseason moves (shocking news, I know), but Spring Training is upon us and it's time to shift to optimism mode! I think there's talent on this team and they'll fight for the division with a win total in the mid-80s. But I still don't think they're much of a postseason threat. They've signed who they've signed and traded for who they've traded for. Maybe they swing a move or 2 during ST. But I'm now cheering for them all to be their best selves and give us a fun season to follow.

Here's to hoping France puts up an .800 OPS 

[jmlease1]

Well, these comments are everything I feared when they made the signing: the veteran player who might be washed getting the PT rather than the younger player with upside. I hope this is just the manager trying to be positive about his player in public, but unless they've mechanically fixed something significant with France and he's healthy, the odds strongly favor Miranda being the better hitter, and since neither player is strong defensively, the Twins should be starting the better hitter.

I hope France surprises me, but unless there's something medical that the Twins aren't talking about related to Miranda, then it's absolutely incomprehensible to me that they might bury him on the bench in favor of effing Ty France. I suppose it's possible they see Miranda as the primary DH, but dropping him from the infield before he turns 27 in favor of a guy who is older, no better of a defender, and on a make-good contract also seems ridiculous.

[LambchoP]

As a cheap backup or platoon bat i was fine with the France signing. But this makes it sound like he gets the starting first base job no matter what, leaving Miranda who is the better bat and defender probably as a dh. I just hope they dont pull a Margot and stick with a struggling France for far too long.

[stringer bell]

Personal bias--I'm sick of <6' first baseman (Arraez, Solano, Santana, France), especially those who are right handed. Miranda is listed at 6'2". 

France may come back this year and be decent. He gives the Twins a much more plausible Plan B if Miranda doesn't pan out. 

It also points out the small window that Miranda and France have to be solid major league regulars. Both are not gifted with speed or good power and need their hit tool to be substantially better than average to be major league regulars. France is older and has had two very good seasons. Miranda has had two seasons with stretches of more than a month where he was well above average and justified his lack of speed, power and defense by clubbing the baseball. 

Bader was mentioned above. I do think the key here is whether he moves ahead of Castro or Emma as an option in a corner against right handed pitching. He's not hit consistently well for quite a while and while he is a good outfielder, putting a below-average hitter on an outfield corner consistently is a sign that there's not enough talent on the roster.

[Linus]

10 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

Personal bias--I'm sick of <6' first baseman (Arraez, Solano, Santana, France), especially those who are right handed. Miranda is listed at 6'2". 

France may come back this year and be decent. He gives the Twins a much more plausible Plan B if Miranda doesn't pan out. 

It also points out the small window that Miranda and France have to be solid major league regulars. Both are not gifted with speed or good power and need their hit tool to be substantially better than average to be major league regulars. France is older and has had two very good seasons. Miranda has had two seasons with stretches of more than a month where he was well above average and justified his lack of speed, power and defense by clubbing the baseball. 

Bader was mentioned above. I do think the key here is whether he moves ahead of Castro or Emma as an option in a corner against right handed pitching. He's not hit consistently well for quite a while and while he is a good outfielder, putting a below-average hitter on an outfield corner consistently is a sign that there's not enough talent on the roster.

Your last sentence sums up the problem nicely.  The problem isn’t Bader or France per se, the problem is that not enough talent has been produced by our farm system.  Even the so called success stories are guys that can’t run or field particularly well.  We place lots of things under the microscope on this site but this seems to have flown under the radar a bit.

[FargoFanMan]

Well, he’ll either find it or he won’t. At $1M non guaranteed hopefully the twins won’t be obliged to keep him when he’s batting .200 overall in May. It’ll either work or it won’t. If Miranda is competent at 1st he’s everyday by June. 

[stringer bell]

2 minutes ago, Linus said:

Your last sentence sums up the problem nicely.  The problem isn’t Bader or France per se, the problem is that not enough talent has been produced by our farm system.  Even the so called success stories are guys that can’t run or field particularly well.  We place lots of things under the microscope on this site but this seems to have flown under the radar a bit.

I agree, not so much about talent, but about tools. In the Falvey era, the Twins haven't produced many players that were above average hitters, runners and defenders. The term I use is that they can win a game with their bat, their legs and their glove. Max Kepler never used his good speed on the bases and never became a consistent offensive threat. Buxton could be all of that except for the injuries. Brian Dozier was pretty good at all three for a while. To me that is the extent of "all-around players".

[mnfireman]

Not a fan of handing a job this early in ST to a guy who is most likely on the decline, unless it's a ploy to push Miranda and/or Julien.

[NYCTK]

28 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

Bader was mentioned above. I do think the key here is whether he moves ahead of Castro or Emma as an option in a corner against right handed pitching. He's not hit consistently well for quite a while and while he is a good outfielder, putting a below-average hitter on an outfield corner consistently is a sign that there's not enough talent on the roster.

Rodriguez isn't going to be on the major league roster until at least June, if at all, so being concerned he's moving ahead of him on the depth chart is putting the cart before the horse. 

Plus, I'll note the AL Champions everyday LF had an 83 OPS+ last season. Bader, and his massively better defense, starting 30 games in LF isn't some travesty. 

[nicksaviking]

A 1M non-guaranteed contract says that 29 other teams don’t buy he’s ‘fixed’.

Or else 29 other teams think a ‘fixed’ France is still not worth rostering.

As expected with ownership in flux, our ship is currently rudderless. 

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

17 hours ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Blue is bad

He has never been fast but a right heel fracture doesn't help either.  

[DJL44]

16 hours ago, Brandon said:

If he is bad meaning .700 OPS or lower he will be replaced.

I hope so. It seems like they need to see 400 plate appearances of bad performance to believe someone isn't good anymore. With France, he has a track record of 2 full years of sub-par performance to go on. If he has a .700 OPS at the end of April, then that's who he is. They don't have to wait until August.

[Original_JB]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2025/02/ty-france-to-serve-as-twins-starting-first-baseman.html

Swell. What does this say about our vaunted Minor League system? We are literally penciling in a million dollar non-guaranteed contract guy, coming off a poor, 'injury' season to be the starting 1B this year. I guess when he was working out with perennial All-Star Denny Hocking 🙄, Denny slipped him those damning Pohlad photos he used to use to stay on the team back in the day.  Yes, I know talk is easy and cheap and folks need to 'create' stories, but c'mon.

[Brandon]

21 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I hope so. It seems like they need to see 400 plate appearances of bad performance to believe someone isn't good anymore. With France, he has a track record of 2 full years of sub-par performance to go on. If he has a .700 OPS at the end of April, then that's who he is. They don't have to wait until August.

I’m saying it with the hope the rest of the roster stays healthy so that the unproductive player goes when ERod comes up

[tarheeltwinsfan]

18 hours ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Blue is bad

This really looks bad.  Didn't he have a foot injury part of 2024? Plus France said he was all messed up trying to get back to where he was before he changed some things in 2023 due to "analytics".  I sure hope these figures from 2024 are no indication of what will happen in 2025. France was poor at hitting and awful at fielding in 2024.

[RpR]

France had a fractured heel that he stated screwed up his batting.

[bean5302]

3 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

A 1M non-guaranteed contract says that 29 other teams don’t buy he’s ‘fixed’.

Or else 29 other teams think a ‘fixed’ France is still not worth rostering.

As expected with ownership in flux, our ship is currently rudderless. 

The owners aren't supposed to be the ones with the rudder. Falvey was given more power than he's ever had, and he's steering the ship.

[bean5302]

Honestly, when it comes to this management team, I don't have a clue what to think. I feel like Falvey and his team have always tried to play a game to keep people guessing as if it's the NFL and other teams are preparing a total game plan around countering a single player on the Twins.

These types of endorsements from Baldelli seem to signal he's already made a decision based on my memory. Personally, I'd be asking for a trade if I were Jose Miranda or Royce Lewis. I'd want to go to a team that values me.