Carlos Correa is Proving He is Worth Every Penny

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

Correa's one of the clutchest players in recent memory. Akin to Derek Jeter.

[USAFChief]

What I like about Correa defensively is, he makes every play he should, AND a few he shouldn't. 

A ground ball to SS is an out, virtually every time. That's not something that can be said for every MLB SS.

[DJL44]

1 minute ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

So your point is that since two hall of fame players could have made that play that it must not have been so great?  I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that Correa (and the fans) would be willing to take that comparison all day long.  Glad to know you think he’s in that class of player as well. 

For modern players I would expect Lindor and Swanson to make that play. Crawford would have made it a couple years ago but he's a step slower now. Other guys (Adames, Pena, Seager, Witt, Turner, Bogaerts) COULD make the play but I wouldn't expect them to. Heck, Kyle Farmer could make that play if you told him what was going to happen in advance but probably not in real-time.

[Twinsrtheworst]

2 hours ago, DJL44 said:

This is some pretty extreme hyperbole. People brought up the Jeter throw as an immediate comparison. If an awful SS like Derek Jeter can make a similar throw there are plenty of SS who can make that throw. It was a great play but Carlos Correa is not the only MLB SS who can make great plays.

Maybe..maybe not.  But he is the one that made the play for our Twins...not any of your random another mlb shortstop.  He's the one that actually made the play.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

9 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

 

"For modern players I would expect Lindor and Swanson to make that play. "  OK. So that's two, but I think even they would be impressed by the play.  Really good players have an appreciation for that sort of thing.

"Crawford would have made it a couple years ago but he's a step slower now."  So. . . no.

"Other guys (Adames, Pena, Seager, Witt, Turner, Bogaerts) COULD make the play but I wouldn't expect them to." That's not a great endorsement.

"Heck, Kyle Farmer could make that play if you told him what was going to happen in advance but probably not in real-time."  Oh that pesky real time with no advance warning comes into play.  With advance warning, some rocket powered shoes and a scope, I might actually make it close.

Sorry, but you're trying too hard to make this seem routine, when it definitely isn't.  Give the man some credit.

[DJL44]

1 minute ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

Sorry, but you're trying too hard to make this seem routine, when it definitely isn't.  Give the man some credit.

That's funny, because my direct quote was "it was a great play". So much hyperbole on this because of the emotional impact of the play.

It was a great play. It was a difficult play. It was not the best play ever made by a SS in the history of baseball. A faster baserunner would have made it even more difficult for someone else to make that play but Bo Bichette got thrown out by 8 feet.

[minman1982]

The pickoff of Guerrero at second last night was my favorite play of the game. A good heads-up play by Correa and Gray to take advantage of Guerrero's generous lead off. On a 3-2 count, both those runners are going on the pitch and a base hit ties the game. Not only does the pick-off end the threat but it also forced Bichette to start over after battling to get to 3-2.

The throw home in Game 1 may be the best throw I have ever seen a shortstop make. I was actually yelling at the TV for him not to throw the ball and concede the run because I was concerned he was going to throw the ball away and let the runner advance on an error. 

Both of these plays were absolute gut punches to the Toronto offense. These are types of plays I usually expect to happen to the Twins.

[Brandon]

2 hours ago, Trov said:

Okay people are blowing the play in game way out of what it was.  First, to say "extraordinary display of baseball wit and incredible arm strength." Is just not accurate.  The arm strength part yes, and the throw was perfect in the situation.  Not taking away from that.  

However, people are acting like no other player would have done what CC did.  Watch the play and you will see him just standing there until the ball rolls past Polo.  Okay so he was being a little lazy expecting his teammate to make a play.  Personally, I think CC should have been running to back up the play and or to cover 3rd, but he just stands there.  Then when he see the ball rolling in the middle of no where, and he is the closest guy to it, I would not say it was extraordinary baseball wit to figure out he should go get it.  I mean do we say how amazing a play someone makes when they grab the ball and are closest to it?  Really, the fact that he took no effort to back up the play, like we are taught in little league, the runner does not even try to go home.  Maybe CC thought of that, like he was playing some game of dare the runner he will get there first, but my guess he just assumed Polo would stop the ball, then when it did not happen he did what any player would have done and go get it, and then his arm and perfect throw makes the good play.  

But please people stop acting like no other player would have had the mind to go grab a ball that is just rolling and he is closest to get it.  If he would have just stood there and watched it would have been upset he never moved and how dumb of a play it was. 

All that being said, we do not win the series without him, and his leadership has shown.  He telling Gray that they could do the pickup, and he calling it himself shows he does have a good mind for what to do and when. 

You mean other SS would call for the pick off play?…. Who?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

It was a great play in a big spot. I wish we could all just agree on that. I’m confident that a solid majority of shortstops would have gotten to the ball, but not all would have made the strong accurate throw. Correa made the play. Jeffers with the finish. Fun play to talk about. 

[Riverbrian]

Back in the late 80's... the late Martin Mull did a series of commercials for Red Roof Inn. 

In one of the ads... He was comparing the Red Roof with another hotel chain (I don't remember which one). He would compare the amenities and the price. I don't remember it exactly but the ad went something like this:

This Hotel has complimentary breakfast so does the Red Roof Inn but for 25 dollars less... This hotel has this a fitness center so does the Red Roof Inn but for 25 dollars less. This hotel does offer a free mint that they leave behind on the pillow... the red roof unfortunately does not do that. He then takes a bite of the mint and says... it's a really good mint. Not worth 25 dollars though. 

The play that Correa made was a fantastic play... it was a good mint... Not sure it was worth 200 million though. 

I'm glad Carlos Correa is a Twin but he's gonna have to provide some improved additional amenities going forward.   

 

 

[terrydactyls]

3 hours ago, DJL44 said:

You should have watched Ozzie Smith and Cal Ripken in the 1980s.

Ozzie is a whole other level of great.  But Ripken?  I don't see it.  I lived outside D.C. in the 80's and watched a lot of Oriole's games.  Ripken was a very solid, but not spectacular SS.  He never would have made that play.  And I was a huge Ripken fan (even a fan of Billy and Cal Sr.).

[Schmoeman5]

3 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

You've said that he was "just standing there" on a few threads now. Have you actually gone and looked at the play? I'm not saying it's the greatest ever, but he certainly wasn't "being a little lazy." He was covering 2B which was his responsibility on that play. They were shifted as far right as they could be for the lefty hitter. He started the play behind 2B, took 2 immediate steps to his right then started going towards 2B to field any possible throw there. His responsibility was absolutely not to backup Jorge on that play. 

Other players would certainly have made that play. Not a large number, but there are other guys. But don't bash him for not backing up the play when that wasn't his responsibility. His responsibility was to cover 2B since Julien was deep in the hole at 2B.

Not entirely accurate.  Watch the replay. Julien is the video about 10 feet from 2nd base. But still a really nice play. Heads up!

[Schmoeman5]

3 hours ago, Squirrel said:

This is absolutely wrong. Look where everyone is standing before the play begins. Julien is pulled way over, Correa was behind 2nd base. He was covering 2nd base for a throw to come to him. As soon as Polanco bobbles it he springs into action. He wasn't standing there lazily just watching. He was covering where he was supposed to cover. I get how y'all are coming to this incorrect conclusion, but it is incorrect.

Julien is heading over to 2nd on that play. He's in the shot. Polanco bobble? It was a whiff. It went under his glove. It was still a really good play. In fact the quick turn he does was pretty good. I've never seen him move that fast. Bichette was a little overzealous and Correa made him pay. I don't even blame Bichette too much. He saw an opportunity and took it. 9 times out of 10 he scores.

[FlyingFinn]

20 minutes ago, Schmoeman5 said:

Not entirely accurate.  Watch the replay. Julien is the video about 10 feet from 2nd base. But still a really nice play. Heads up!

I disagree. If Polanco got a ball to throw to 2B, I'm saying Correa is taking the throw, looking at where each players was positioned to start the play. I was just surprised how fast Correa got to the ball when he wasn't running that great three weeks ago.

[chpettit19]

37 minutes ago, Schmoeman5 said:

Not entirely accurate.  Watch the replay. Julien is the video about 10 feet from 2nd base. But still a really nice play. Heads up!

But Julien isn't taking the throw from Polanco there. You don't have the guy running the opposite direction from first base taking a throw at 2B, you have the guy who started behind the base who's heading towards first take the throw. They've been practicing that for years. It's how they do it in spring training and it's how they do it in practice during the season. Carlos Correa's responsibility on that play is to cover second, and that's what he's doing when the ball goes under Polanco's glove.

[Schmoeman5]

1 minute ago, FlyingFinn said:

I disagree. If Polanco got a ball to throw to 2B, I'm saying Correa is taking the throw, looking at where each players was positioned to start the play. I was just surprised how fast Correa got to the ball when he wasn't running that great three weeks ago.

IF Polanco comes up with that ball he either eats it or throws to 1st. There's no way he has a play at 2nd. Correa is closest to 2nd. I get that. He's covering 2nd for the potential force out.  I'm looking at Julien coming over to cover after Correa pivots. And yes Correa was running better in this series than I've seen him run in his 2 years in Minnesota 

[Schmoeman5]

1 minute ago, chpettit19 said:

But Julien isn't taking the throw from Polanco there. You don't have the guy running the opposite direction from first base taking a throw at 2B, you have the guy who started behind the base who's heading towards first take the throw. They've been practicing that for years. It's how they do it in spring training and it's how they do it in practice during the season. Carlos Correa's responsibility on that play is to cover second, and that's what he's doing when the ball goes under Polanco's glove.

Yes. I know. On contact Correa is going to the bag for the potential force. I was referring to Julien is still coming over to cover the bag after Correa pivots to run down the ball. The runner I forget who it was but he was dancing off 2nd base when Correa threw out Bichette. 

[Doctor Evil]

I would pick Correa over any shortstop in Twins history. He's silky smooth and sends user friendly balls to first and second base. An example was that double play throw to Julien at 2b. His calm demeaner and the way he carves difficult plays in to routine plays is fun to watch.

[Blyleven2011]

5 hours ago, Greglw3 said:

STatcasts defensive numbers are worthless, IMO. For over 150 years it was known that there is no way of measuring the infinite array of subtleties that make a defensive player strong or weak. Range is one such  non measurable talent.

The best thing we’ve had is scouts with trained eyes who have been watching SSs or CF, or 2B for years. And that’s still the best thing. For anyone with a ton of experience watching baseball, or a Roy Smalley, Latroy Hawkins, Terry Francona or even anyone that watched all of the Twins games this year, they know that Correa had a sensational defensive season. 

It’d be like watching Jordan and then someone quoting a new stat that had not existed for 97% of basketball history and they say Jordan averaged -1 field goals per average defensively for his career.

On what scientific principle is OAA, Zone ratings and all these other defensive metrics that have wildly counter-intuitive results based?  If a SS like Correa, say, played in 2022 behind a fly ball staff, sure he’d have less outs than average. It’s what he does with the balls hit to him that count.  it’s his judgement. And that rocket arm. His diving stops. His superior work in turning double plays. Coming from closer to 2nd base to field a slow roller and use his superior arm to miraculously throw out a runner. And using his veteran judgement to put on a play with the pitcher to pick off a runner at 2nd. That was a thing of beauty!

He has the strongest arm of any SS I’ve ever seen play and I’ve been avid since the 64 Twins. How many hits did that save the year and how many DP turned just because of his rocket arm? No stat can say. One could say Correa average 90 mph on his throws to 1st and player B averaged 91. That would be fatally flawed too because on maybe 10% of the plays, he eases up based on his judgement that he doesn’t need to unleash the full fury of his usual blistering throws.

I just feel a lot of distress for the fans that are being raised on these numbers. I think they’re really a crutch for those that don’t watch all or even most of the games. The bad habit has even seeped into some of the bloggers and baseball writers that write for somewhat respected publications. They’ve seen few of the Twins games but readily quote "advanced defensive metrics didn’t like  Correa’s season. Advanced defensive metrics are like corporations. They have no heart and they have no soul. They are rote in only caring about 1 stat - profit turned above and beyond all other human considerations.

I do feel a whole generation is being raised on a group of statistics that are entirely unprovable and wildly misleading.  Everyone would be done a favor if the scouts 20-80 consensus came back into use rather than OAA, etc.

 

I'd back you up on this  and second the motion  ...

[chpettit19]

58 minutes ago, Schmoeman5 said:

Yes. I know. On contact Correa is going to the bag for the potential force. I was referring to Julien is still coming over to cover the bag after Correa pivots to run down the ball. The runner I forget who it was but he was dancing off 2nd base when Correa threw out Bichette. 

Then I'm not sure what you're saying isn't accurate in my earlier post. 

[Riverbrian]

I got a downvote on my earlier post. Not sure why... Perhaps my Red Roof Inn Commercial similitude was out of bounds...  perhaps it was the use of a mint.

Since it seems I must clarify. The play was awesome. I leapt to my feet and I don't leap easy at my age. Correa has been defensively nearly perfect all season. I want Carlos Correa on this team right here right now. I'm a C4 Fan. 

But the title of the article was "Carlos Correa is proving he is worth every penny". 

200 Million? That's what... 2 Billion Pennies. We are in year one of a 6 year deal. We got 5 more years to go and the first year of that contract has been a struggle at that plate. 

It was a big play on a big stage by a big player. I will not diminish what it was because I loved it.

However... Is it ok that we don't diminish the value of 200 million. 

Go ahead and downvote me again if you must. 😉

 

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Another counterpoint is that the Twins would most likely be in this exact same spot they are now, with or without Correa:

• Correa’s underwhelming regular season;
• The Twins winning a historically bad division 
• And winning against an unprepared and overrated Blue Jays team in the Wild Card round. 

I do agree that going forward, this is where Correa can live up to his contract. His contributions in the Toronto series were a good start. 

[S Bart]

 

Correa was/is awesome! He reminds me of the recently passed third baseman, Brooks Robinson.

In preparation for the upcoming Twins v. Astros game.

Twins' fans should view this new PBS Frontline documentary on the Astros. It is excellent! 

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/the-astros-edge/

[IndianaTwin]

4 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Back in the late 80's... the late Martin Mull did a series of commercials for Red Roof Inn. 

In one of the ads... He was comparing the Red Roof with another hotel chain (I don't remember which one). He would compare the amenities and the price. I don't remember it exactly but the ad went something like this:

This Hotel has complimentary breakfast so does the Red Roof Inn but for 25 dollars less... This hotel has this a fitness center so does the Red Roof Inn but for 25 dollars less. This hotel does offer a free mint that they leave behind on the pillow... the red roof unfortunately does not do that. He then takes a bite of the mint and says... it's a really good mint. Not worth 25 dollars though. 

The play that Correa made was a fantastic play... it was a good mint... Not sure it was worth 200 million though. 

I'm glad Carlos Correa is a Twin but he's gonna have to provide some improved additional amenities going forward.   

 

 

But…

did they leave the light on?

[Squirrel]

37 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

I got a downvote on my earlier post. Not sure why... Perhaps my Red Roof Inn Commercial similitude was out of bounds...  perhaps it was the use of a mint.

Since it seems I must clarify. The play was awesome. I leapt to my feet and I don't leap easy at my age. Correa has been defensively nearly perfect all season. I want Carlos Correa on this team right here right now. I'm a C4 Fan. 

But the title of the article was "Carlos Correa is proving he is worth every penny". 

200 Million? That's what... 2 Billion Pennies. We are in year one of a 6 year deal. We got 5 more years to go and the first year of that contract has been a struggle at that plate. 

It was a big play on a big stage by a big player. I will not diminish what it was because I loved it.

However... Is it ok that we don't diminish the value of 200 million. 

Go ahead and downvote me again if you must. 😉

 

 

I disagreed with you … that’s what the thumbs down means … disagree. I think you are trying too hard to break things into pieces where I’m looking at the whole package. You didn’t like his bat this year, so he’s not worth it, yet. I don’t think we’d be here without him. The unwavering leadership he has provided, the mentorship to the kids, his play on the field. Yes, his offense was off, but the fact he provided those more needed other facets, we are here. Because we are here, it’s worth it, imo, because I firmly believe we wouldn’t be without him. When was the last time we had this component? A very long time. He has been the catalyst, he has been what we have needed. Yes, we are the sum of all parts. But, again, without this part, we’d be done already, missing the playoffs altogether. It’s worth to be here.

And, for the record, if you are going to compare Correa to a hotel chain, I think the Four Season might be more apt. Imo, of course.

[big dog]

7 hours ago, USAFChief said:

What I like about Correa defensively is, he makes every play he should, AND a few he shouldn't. 

A ground ball to SS is an out, virtually every time. That's not something that can be said for every MLB SS.

Agreed. The consistency has really been spectacular. And much appreciated.

[DocBauer]

Simply not going to get in to a debate about Correa's throw home. Only going to state my opinion.

I've seen the career of Ozzie Smith, and to me, he's still the greatest SS I've seen in my lifetime. And I've seen Templeton, Trammell, Larkin. Vizquel, and other tremendous SS. And I've also watched Ripken and Jeter...both very good and worthy of HOF inductions, but neither as good defensively as Correa, IMO. 

I appreciated Correa from afar before he joined the Twins, but can't say I was a fan. I have become one since, however, as I like the man, and love the ballplayer. Never had a clue just how invested he is in his organization, or how great his leadership skills and just how great his pure baseball intellect is.

I believe it was Bundy pitching in a game last season, but I could be mis-remembering who was on the mound, when Correa made a visit, told him what to throw, and he did, and the Twins got out of a tight spot and ended up winning the game.

His call of the pick off at 2B was outstanding. He recognized the situation and set the whole thing up.

Again, I have seen some absolutely amazing SS and tremendous plays over nearly 50 years of baseball, but it is NOT hyperbole to say his throw home was one of the best plays I've ever seen made. He was moving to 2B to cover initially, as he was supposed to do. The ball that Polanco missed came to a dead stop on the dirt. Correa then sprinted back to his right, fielded the ball, and threw an absolute strike to Jeffers to nail Bichette. I mean, how can you argue with something so sudden, unexpected, and PERFECT? 

COULD someone else maybe make that play? Well yeah, they COULD, but HE did it. And 90-95% of the time nobody would have done that. Maybe not even he, given the same chance again. I think we just have to accept and enjoy what a tremendous play it was. The fact that he did it for our favorite team is not hyperbolic. It's just recognizing greatness.

Brian, I enjoyed your analogy. I think where you got disagreement was in hinting he hasn't proven his $200M. I think a disappointing offensive season is a target needing more proof about earning said deal. But I think any sort of pushback is simply that it's way too early after an injury plagued season to suggest he's NOT worth the contract. And I'm pretty sure that wasn't your intention, but that's where the thumbs down  came from.

DESPITE a less than stellar year with the bat, and fighting his foot injury all year, and despite what any defensive metrics might state, I think Correa has been outstanding all season defensively, even with a few bad plays here and there. 

Again, I've had a bad case of plantar fascists myself, and I can't even imagine playing pro ball with it. But if rest and rehab gets him right again for 2024, I have no doubt his defense will be as good, if not better. And despite a slow start with the bat in 2022, and a losing season, I think a lot of us forget just how good his final numbers/production were. He had a .834 OPS and 138 OPS+. 

He's not just great defense, and a normally better bat than this year, but he's also an experienced leader and instinctive, intellectual ballplayer. And he brings those elements to the Twins as well.

At the end of his deal, he probably won't be the same player he is now, when healthy. But as I recall, his contract is structured that way as well.

When all is said and done, barring something catastrophic, I think he's going to bring enough to the Twins in his tenure to more than earn his contract.

And with that, I'm jumping off my soapbox.

[Fatbat]

If you aren’t writing a paycheck, you have an opinion that matters exactly zero as to how much a player makes in pro sports. It’s negotiable via union, agent and ownership set up via antitrust legislation.  Shut up and watch the show. Carlos gets his money and we the fans get entertainment. The cost of a cold beer at the stadium is rediculous tho.

[annismark]

2 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

I

200 Million? That's what... 2 Billion Pennies. We are in year one of a 6 year deal. We got 5 more years to go and the first year of that contract has been a struggle at that plate. 

 

 

 

20 billion pennies. 2 billion dimes 2 million Benjamins

[glunn]

6 hours ago, Doctor Evil said:

I would pick Correa over any shortstop in Twins history. He's silky smooth and sends user friendly balls to first and second base. An example was that double play throw to Julien at 2b. His calm demeaner and the way he carves difficult plays in to routine plays is fun to watch.

I would pick Zoilo ("Zorro") Versalles as best shortstop in Twins history.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoilo_Versalles  

Zorro's defense was inconsistent, but his other contributions made him league MVP in 1965.