How Long Will the Twins Leave Byron Buxton at Full-Time DH?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Buxton may not be 100%, but I don’t buy the injury explanation. Simply because it would be irresponsible to pigeonhole Buxton’s recovery into a timeframe the front office has had set since at least February.

Essentially they are saying, “We know when Buxton will be 100% and that date will b

[ashbury]

4 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Buxton may not be 100%, but I don’t buy the injury explanation. Simply because it would be irresponsible to pigeonhole Buxton’s recovery into a timeframe the front office has had set since at least February.

Essentially they are saying, “We know when Buxton will be 100% and that date will b

Wait, wait, you didn't finish!

[nicksaviking]

Seems like there's a lot of wanting the cake and eating it too. Everyone complained about all the injuries and missed time last year and now the team is at least trying to control that with Buxton but that's not satisfactory either. 

Aside from the reconstructed knee, Buxton has also had plenty of soft tissue injuries, so I'd guess having him run as little as possible in the cold months is also part of the plan.

I'm not saying I care for any of this, and since I don't know the specific diagnosis, I have no idea if I'd agree with the current plan, but there's little need to explain why they are using significant caution as we are all familiar with the Byron Buxton saga by now.

 

[chinmusic]

1 hour ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

If what you say is true, why would the FO not make a statement about Buck's health?

That's a very good question....

[Craig Arko]

The fact that he’s playing at all, in any capacity, is a statement. 

[MABB1959]

35 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

You do realize he's getting paid 1/3 of what he would have got if he was healthy and on the field full time?  And on another team?  Value proposition is pretty solid here.  Anything past what we are getting is the upside of dealing with this minor frustration.

To answer the original question, my thought is that when Polanco is ready to hit he comes up and takes this role.  The DH can rotate daily, weekly or monthly.  Polanco can get ABs while working back to full health and helping the big club.  Timing will match up well with Buxton to center. 

It's April, the goal is to have the roster healthy in September and October.  Be patient.

Not disagreeing but aren't these early games just as important?  Shouldn't we be fielding the best team all 162 games?  I don't care really what he is getting paid.  I want to watch him play.  He is the most exciting player we have had in  LONG time.

I hate this modern baseball.  It isn't a team anymore it is a bunch of stats and then pull the players off a merry-go-round based on those.  Line-up should be consistent so us non-stat fans can get to know and love the team.  I have said this many times.  I wouldn't recognize but one or two Twins players if I was sitting at the same table with them.  It isn't about players playing for the love of the game but making sure they make the most money.  The owners care more about TV revenue than giving us  the ability to watch the games. 

 

[lukeduke1980]

90 games dh, 30 in cf?  That would be a good year to me.   

[Fire Dan Gladden]

2 hours ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

If what you say is true, why would the FO not make a statement about Buck's health?

 

2 hours ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

Transparency from the FO would be nice in this instance. 

Why do we fans feel as fans entitled to know the health situations of our athletes?  They are protected by HIPAA same as you.

Transparency would be nice for who?  I am sure the other teams would love to know exactly what is going on with Buxton and every other player on every other team.  Would make game planning easier...

The FO owes the fans NOTHING.  The coaching staff owes the fans NOTHING.  Internal decisions are not the purview of the general public.  You are entitled to be upset about it, but there really should be no level of expectation that they disseminate any decision they make. 

[Fire Dan Gladden]

53 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I've never understood the "obviously us fans who have no actual health info on Buxton know best how to use him!" argument. Bunting, stealing bases, lineup construction, pitcher usage, etc. make sense to me for us to debate since we have information and can make educated arguments. This idea that the Twins are mismanaging Buxton sure looks like it's just fans frustrated and turning that into the Twins being wrong. And I get it. It sucks to have him DHing. But this isn't just Rocco or Falvine saying "I'm no Dr, but I'm pretty sure this is how we'll save Buxton from getting hurt." The Drs and trainers are giving them their best, well educated, advice on how to manage him to get the most games/ABs out of him. Crazy to me that fans with no real info think they know for sure that they're doing it wrong. It's ok to just say "this sucks, and I wish he was in CF everyday and this freaking team could stay even a little healthy" without having to say the team is screwing it all up.

Stop bringing logic to an emotional discussion.

[Jocko87]

31 minutes ago, MABB1959 said:

Not disagreeing but aren't these early games just as important?  Shouldn't we be fielding the best team all 162 games?  I don't care really what he is getting paid.  I want to watch him play.  He is the most exciting player we have had in  LONG time.

I hate this modern baseball.  It isn't a team anymore it is a bunch of stats and then pull the players off a merry-go-round based on those.  Line-up should be consistent so us non-stat fans can get to know and love the team.  I have said this many times.  I wouldn't recognize but one or two Twins players if I was sitting at the same table with them.  It isn't about players playing for the love of the game but making sure they make the most money.  The owners care more about TV revenue than giving us  the ability to watch the games. 

 

How important were they last year?  They evaporated quickly.  What did the Phillies and the Braves look like down the stretch the last couple years.  I guarantee you will enjoy a stretch run more than April cold games. 

He is my favorite player to watch that I can remember.  I just chose to look at it as I'm happy to get what I'm getting with hope for more.  I want him to light up October more than anything.  It will be electric.

[stringer bell]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

Aside from the reconstructed knee, Buxton has also had plenty of soft tissue injuries, so I'd guess having him run as little as possible in the cold months ……

 

A nit to pick here—“reconstructed” wouldn’t be the proper description for a for arthroscopic surgery that I recall being classified as “clean-up”. This is the puzzler to me—that a 29 year-old physical specimen doesn’t recover in six months from arthroscopic knee surgery. 

[tarheeltwinsfan]

10 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

 

Why do we fans feel as fans entitled to know the health situations of our athletes?  They are protected by HIPAA same as you.

Transparency would be nice for who?  I am sure the other teams would love to know exactly what is going on with Buxton and every other player on every other team.  Would make game planning easier...

The FO owes the fans NOTHING.  The coaching staff owes the fans NOTHING.  Internal decisions are not the purview of the general public.  You are entitled to be upset about it, but there really should be no level of expectation that they disseminate any decision they make. 

Do we agree that HIPPA laws prohibit employers from giving out any health information about the players? If so, where does Twins Daily get its info concerning players' injury status reports? Why does Rocco discuss players' health pregame and post- game? Why does the FO discuss the players health to reporters and at Twinsfest? They can do this because, being protected by HIPPA, can be waived by the patient. However, waiving HIPPA restrictions has nothing to do with whether the FO gives out only Pollyanna "good" health information, nor does it free the FO and management to give out misinformation.  If that happens, it is misleading and wrong. If the FO and coaches and managers can give out any health information about the players, which we all see being done daily, then it is incumbent on the FO and management to give out correct information.  Fire Dan, I usually agree with your comments, but on this issue, I must respectfully disagree. 

[Major League Ready]

1 hour ago, Jocko87 said:

You do realize he's getting paid 1/3 of what he would have got if he was healthy and on the field full time?  And on another team?  Value proposition is pretty solid here.  Anything past what we are getting is the upside of dealing with this minor frustration.

To answer the original question, my thought is that when Polanco is ready to hit he comes up and takes this role.  The DH can rotate daily, weekly or monthly.  Polanco can get ABs while working back to full health and helping the big club.  Timing will match up well with Buxton to center. 

It's April, the goal is to have the roster healthy in September and October.  Be patient.

Not even remotely accurate.  His base salary is $15M with the following incentives.  

MVP votes:

1st-$8M
2nd-$7M
3rd-$6M
4th-$5M
5th-$4M
6th-through-10th: $3M

Also: $500K each for 502, 533, 567, 600 and 625 plate appearances.

[chpettit19]

18 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

A nit to pick here—“reconstructed” wouldn’t be the proper description for a for arthroscopic surgery that I recall being classified as “clean-up”. This is the puzzler to me—that a 29 year-old physical specimen doesn’t recover in six months from arthroscopic knee surgery. 

He's not exactly a "physical specimen," though, is he? He may look good with his shirt off, but he's been anything but a physical specimen. His body clearly doesn't hold up under physical stress and punishment. He's athletically gifted, but we have nearly a decade worth of proof that he's no physical specimen. His body just can't do what we all wish it could do in terms of staying healthy and performing. I think that's the disconnect on some of this. The idea that Buxton should be treated like any other player doesn't make sense to me. We've done that. He very clearly can't hold up to 100+ games in CF. Just throwing him out there and expecting him to randomly stay healthy this time seems like it'd be a terrible idea to me.

[chpettit19]

2 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Not even remotely accurate.  His base salary is $15M with the following incentives.  

MVP votes:

1st-$8M
2nd-$7M
3rd-$6M
4th-$5M
5th-$4M
6th-through-10th: $3M

Also: $500K each for 502, 533, 567, 600 and 625 plate appearances.

1/3 is a bit of an exaggeration, but I believe the point the other poster was trying to make was that he'd be getting $35+ million a year if he were someone who could stay healthy and perform as expected for a full season. 15 a year is less than half of what he'd have gotten on the open market if he were a healthy version of himself.

[Major League Ready]

2 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

1/3 is a bit of an exaggeration, but I believe the point the other poster was trying to make was that he'd be getting $35+ million a year if he were someone who could stay healthy and perform as expected for a full season. 15 a year is less than half of what he'd have gotten on the open market if he were a healthy version of himself.

I guess I was being too literal.

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, Major League Ready said:

I guess I was being too literal.

Probably not the first time someone's done that on these boards...😉

[USAFChief]

Not playing Buxton because he might get hurt has the exact same effect as if he actually was hurt. Makes zero sense. None.

Not running, when on base, has the exact same effect as him being the slowest player in the majors. Makes zero sense. None.

Intentionallly DHing him to put MAT in the lineup has the exact same effect as DHing MAT, 3 of 4 games. Anyone OK with that? Makes zero sense. None.

Ridiculous.

Put him in CF with no more days off than injury requires. Anything else is self inflicted damage to the team.

 

 

[Jocko87]

10 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Not even remotely accurate.  His base salary is $15M with the following incentives.  

MVP votes:

1st-$8M
2nd-$7M
3rd-$6M
4th-$5M
5th-$4M
6th-through-10th: $3M

Also: $500K each for 502, 533, 567, 600 and 625 plate appearances.

If he has a track record of health, he gets $300m plus.  From another team.  1/3 is pretty close.

[Fire Dan Gladden]

21 minutes ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

Do we agree that HIPPA laws prohibit employers from giving out any health information about the players? If so, where does Twins Daily get its info concerning players' injury status reports? Why does Rocco discuss players' health pregame and post- game? Why does the FO discuss the players health to reporters and at Twinsfest? They can do this because, being protected by HIPPA, can be waived by the patient. However, waiving HIPPA restrictions has nothing to do with whether the FO gives out only Pollyanna "good" health information, nor does it free the FO and management to give out misinformation.  If that happens, it is misleading and wrong. If the FO and coaches and managers can give out any health information about the players, which we all see being done daily, then it is incumbent on the FO and management to give out correct information.  Fire Dan, I usually agree with your comments, but on this issue, I must respectfully disagree. 

I am not a law expert, so I can't speak to the minutia of HIPAA laws.  But to address a few of your points:

-TD gets information the same way journalistic enterprises get information.  Sources.  The legality of their right to that information can always be questioned.  (TD Staff - I am not attacking anybody's integrity, but sources are kept secret for a reason)

-When it comes to press conferences, the message we are receiving is a combination of truth, half-truth, and spin.  Any good FO or Coach will communicate things how they want it to be interpreted.  Facts have very little to do with what they say. 

-My understanding is that most of the players don't really care when it comes to physical injuries because they are impossible to hide or keep secret.  But, you will see "undisclosed reason" from time to time when players are held out for a few games.

I will say this again:  I understand you don't like being in the dark, or being misled, but it is done by athletic teams every second of every day.  They will say whatever needs to be said if they think it will give them one ounce of advantage in the next game.  The FO does not "owe" it to the fans to be honest or transparent.

[Jocko87]

30 minutes ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

Do we agree that HIPPA laws prohibit employers from giving out any health information about the players? If so, where does Twins Daily get its info concerning players' injury status reports? Why does Rocco discuss players' health pregame and post- game? Why does the FO discuss the players health to reporters and at Twinsfest? They can do this because, being protected by HIPPA, can be waived by the patient. However, waiving HIPPA restrictions has nothing to do with whether the FO gives out only Pollyanna "good" health information, nor does it free the FO and management to give out misinformation.  If that happens, it is misleading and wrong. If the FO and coaches and managers can give out any health information about the players, which we all see being done daily, then it is incumbent on the FO and management to give out correct information.  Fire Dan, I usually agree with your comments, but on this issue, I must respectfully disagree. 

Its an interesting question but I bet its covered in their contracts and the union agreement.  Probably on the lines of baseball related injuries are free to discuss, cancer not so much.  Just like the NFL has fairly strict reporting requirements for probable, questionable etc.  They aren't winging it, there is big gambling money at stake.  Dang it, now i have to go do some light reading. 

[nicksaviking]

7 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Not playing Buxton because he might get hurt has the exact same effect as if he actually was hurt. Makes zero sense. None.

Not running, when on base, has the exact same effect as him being the slowest player in the majors. Makes zero sense. None.

Intentionallly DHing him to put MAT in the lineup has the exact same effect as DHing MAT, 3 of 4 games. Anyone OK with that? Makes zero sense. None.

Ridiculous.

Put him in CF with no more days off than injury requires. Anything else is self inflicted damage to the team.

 

 

I'll take his bat even if I get nothing else, because so far half of the team is incapable of hitting.

[Vanimal46]

I dislike the Buxton plan very much. It’s only robbing the team and the fans of the immense value he provides at a premium position. Take advantage of the rare time when Buxton is healthy and play him in the field. There is nothing indicating that he’s injured right now. 

The current strategy is becoming borderline preposterous. Yesterday as a prime example… They would rather change 3 players’ positions and eliminate the DH vs. having him play 1 inning in the field. 

[Whitey333]

Who isn't sick of the whole Buxton situation?! It's been going on for 8 years.  Extrapolating 61 games into 162 and saying he would be so great is ludicrous.  One item that I get upset about is this FO isn't transparent with fans at all.  Especially as it relates to player injuries.  People saying Buxton would make 3 times his salary at other places if he were able to play a full season are making too many assumptions about his production.  It works both ways.  His career stats are what they are and it doesn't make him a superstar.  His stats for 8 years are actually below average.  Let's not build him up to what we may think he is.  Anyone can take a good month of baseball production and extrapolate it through a whole season.  That doesn't mean he will be Aaron Judge like.  And I agree with some of the people that wonder why the Twins treat games in April as meaningless.  That's for losing teams.  The fact is the lineups produced the past two games would be tough to be competitive with the Saints.  Buxton not dhing Monday while Correa was hurt was inexcusable.  No we don't know if we would have won't or not with Buck in the lineup but please make an attempt to make it at least look like you are trying to win.  Sunday the twins drew only 14,000 fans against the World champion Astros.  Yes it was Easter but it was all around the league and most teams drew over 25,000.  Yes a couple drew poorly but they are the usual suspects that don't draw fans.  Monday the Twins drew 12,000.  Both days was beautiful weather.  IMO the team plays very poor and boring baseball led by a very boring and non aggressive manager. 

[whitsbrain]

I'll assume Buxton is healthy because that's what the Twins are (and aren't) telling the fans.  The difference he makes on the field is immense so saving him for later in the year makes no sense.  Maybe the Front Office/Manager thinks they have a team that makes the postseason without him on the field at every possible moment.  I don't see it that way, but I'm just a run-of-the-mill fan.

I'd say April games are actually more important than those in September, unless you already consider yourself out of contention in April.

[Tyler from Oregon]

Quite frankly he needs to be playing in CF. He is much more likely to get injured running the bases than making outfield grabs at this point. Then Michael Taylor can be the backup he is supposed to be on this team. This team is so short handed at the moment, so putting him in the field doesn't necessarily free up the DH position for anyone of immediate value, but as the team gets healthier, or as AAA guys are ready, they need to be playing Byron in CF at least most of the time.

[USAFChief]

22 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

...so far half of the team is incapable of hitting.

Thanks in part to Michael A Taylor.

[umterp23]

We talk about off days and then scheduled off days for a guy who isn't on the field for more than 60% of any season give or take some % points.  So at this pace he will play or should I say potentially just bat for about 90 games for $15MM.  It is what it is for him and he isn't an Elite Ballplayer when you don't play for what you signed him for which was CF.  The fact that we settled on a backup to be the starter in Taylor and not knocking Taylor, but that isn't what the fans wanted in getting Buxton long term.  

[Dman]

Can't say for sure but it seems like the trainer\training staff are trying to get players back to essentially 100% before having them play even when injuries are minor.  Kepler could probably play through the knee soreness.  Gallo said his side was sore but could play. Correa could likely play with back spasms.  I am sure Buxton could probably play center if needed. So far all of them are limited or not playing.

They have depth built in this year and I think they don't want to play players hurt where they can slowly degrade physically.  I don't know if that is a Paparesta philosophy or just a change in philosophy but it looks like they are going to put a lot of emphasis on nipping these small injuries early so they don't turn into bigger ones or degrade future performance.  IMO we will have to wait and see how it works out.  Having a healthy team at the end of the year would be a huge advantage. What is the old saying an ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure.  Looks like the Twins are putting that advice in play.

[IndianaTwin]

48 minutes ago, umterp23 said:

We talk about off days and then scheduled off days for a guy who isn't on the field for more than 60% of any season give or take some % points.  So at this pace he will play or should I say potentially just bat for about 90 games for $15MM.  It is what it is for him and he isn't an Elite Ballplayer when you don't play for what you signed him for which was CF.  The fact that we settled on a backup to be the starter in Taylor and not knocking Taylor, but that isn't what the fans wanted in getting Buxton long term.  

"At this pace" he will play 129.6 games and pinch hit in another 16.2.

For context, in his monster year, Nelson Cruz got $14MM to play in 120 games, and we loved it.