How Long Will the Twins Leave Byron Buxton at Full-Time DH?

[Woof Bronzer]

2 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Why do we fans feel as fans entitled to know the health situations of our athletes?  They are protected by HIPAA same as you.

Transparency would be nice for who?  I am sure the other teams would love to know exactly what is going on with Buxton and every other player on every other team.  Would make game planning easier...

The FO owes the fans NOTHING.  The coaching staff owes the fans NOTHING.  Internal decisions are not the purview of the general public.  You are entitled to be upset about it, but there really should be no level of expectation that they disseminate any decision they make. 

Like any business, I'd argue the Twins owe the fans, to whom they are selling a product, honesty and transparency about the product they are selling.  This goes without saying in every other business in the world - would anyone argue that say Best Buy doesn't owe product information to their customers?  "Hey, if you want a tv, you'll have to buy it to find out what kind."   No one is asking for player charts, so you've successfully knocked down the HIPAA strawman you constructed :)  And you are stating your opinion as though it is fact.  You're entitled to your opinion, but it's pretty poor form to christen your opinion as the one true fact and angrily shut down debate.  

[Woof Bronzer]

2 hours ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

Do we agree that HIPPA laws prohibit employers from giving out any health information about the players? 

I was curious about this too.  Turns out, because MLB contracts require players to disclose medical info to the team, this is considered the employee's authorization to do so.  Once this authorization is given, HIPAA no longer applies because MLB teams are not covered employers (like health care providers) under the law.

So, I think we can retire "teams can't be transparent with fans due to HIPAA" as a meaningful talking point here.  

[chpettit19]

28 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

Like any business, I'd argue the Twins owe the fans, to whom they are selling a product, honesty and transparency about the product they are selling.  This goes without saying in every other business in the world - would anyone argue that say Best Buy doesn't owe product information to their customers?  "Hey, if you want a tv, you'll have to buy it to find out what kind."   No one is asking for player charts, so you've successfully knocked down the HIPAA strawman you constructed :)  And you are stating your opinion as though it is fact.  You're entitled to your opinion, but it's pretty poor form to christen your opinion as the one true fact and angrily shut down debate.  

What info are they withholding? Byron Buxton won't play CF until mid-May. If you're waiting to hear if he's in the field or not before now and then they've already told you he won't be. Carlos Correa has back spasms and can't, or won't, be playing through them today. They hope he'll be back tomorrow, but can't promise it. Same situation with Gallo and his side. Kepler won't be playing at all as he's on the IL with a knee issue. Any other info you feel they're withholding and not being transparent about? Or would you like them to predict the future and tell you exactly when Correa's back will be better and Gallo's side will be better?

I don't even care about privacy rules. What information are the Twins withholding that other teams are giving out? In any major sport. The Twins tell us what the injury is, what their hoped for time table is, and give updates on those things daily (unless it's a long-term thing they just address here and there). They've given us a rough timeline for Polanco as he works back. There's articles out nearly weekly about Lewis and his progress. What more do fans want? What more do they see other teams giving? There's a difference between not being honest and transparent, and not having all the answers.

[Schmoeman5]

To answer the question of how soon can Twins fan's expect Buxton to be in CF this year. I think the answer is never. If Buxton has days off while only DHing. How can you hope to see him in CF. And I don't believe weather is a factor at all. That's just common sense to me. If roaming CF is too much strain on whatever issues he's having physically,  then the best scenario for Buxton is however many games they can get from him out of DHing only.

[Craig Arko]

My birthday is May 13th. Byron will play CF as a gift to me.

[Rosterman]

ins had a $50m bench yesterday. It is fruistrating when they pretty much throwaway a game by going heavy with the real bench guys. And only 10 days into the season.

Plus, you want to beat the teams in your own division to win your division. If you can beat your divisional opponents, you have a good chance of taking the division, as the chances of them faring better against other teams are a pretty 50/50 mix.

When will Buxton actually get to practice in the outfield? How much did he do in spring training. Seems Gallo was getting used to first base and was put in the outfield and twisted the wrong way. Correa is being paid an enormous amount of money to play and has no concerns about financial secuirty or getting a better deal next season.

Yes, I'm all for giving a guy a day off now and then. Which is why you have a solid bench. But, c'mon...and at home, too. People pay to see Buxton. They pay to seee Correa. Theya ren't paying to see Farmer and Gordon and Castro and Taylor.

[SwainZag]

I had no idea we had so many medical specialists on the boards here.  I am amazed how many of you think the Twins are purposely not playing their best players, hiding crucial injury information and well knowing they are upsetting fans to play a brand of baseball that no one likes.  

If anyone watched Bryon leg out that triple last week you could obviously see he was huffing and puffing a bit which tells me he is not in peak cardio Byron Buxton shape.  I am sure that all stems from trying to work him back from off season surgery and not over extend him to try and prevent future injuries and hopefully get a full season in....or as close to a full season as we have from Byron.  I as much as everyone wants to see him on the field more, but man.....

[Schmoeman5]

3 minutes ago, SwainZag said:

I had no idea we had so many medical specialists on the boards here.  I am amazed how many of you think the Twins are purposely not playing their best players, hiding crucial injury information and well knowing they are upsetting fans to play a brand of baseball that no one likes.  

If anyone watched Bryon leg out that triple last week you could obviously see he was huffing and puffing a bit which tells me he is not in peak cardio Byron Buxton shape.  I am sure that all stems from trying to work him back from off season surgery and not over extend him to try and prevent future injuries and hopefully get a full season in....or as close to a full season as we have from Byron.  I as much as everyone wants to see him on the field more, but man.....

Calling Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

This topic has been discussed a lot. I appreciate all the various opinions, although I appreciate some more than others. I'm going to stop my discussing of this topic now and get ready to watch the Twins, and who ever is playing for them tonight, beat the White Sox, led by former Twin Lance, "If I Ain't Happy, Nobody Is Going To Be Happy", Lynn. . Goooooooooo Twins. 

[USAFChief]

45 minutes ago, SwainZag said:

I had no idea we had so many medical specialists on the boards here.  I am amazed how many of you think the Twins are purposely not playing their best players, hiding crucial injury information and well knowing they are upsetting fans to play a brand of baseball that no one likes.  

If anyone watched Bryon leg out that triple last week you could obviously see he was huffing and puffing a bit which tells me he is not in peak cardio Byron Buxton shape.  I am sure that all stems from trying to work him back from off season surgery and not over extend him to try and prevent future injuries and hopefully get a full season in....or as close to a full season as we have from Byron.  I as much as everyone wants to see him on the field more, but man.....

But the Twins ARE purposely not playing their best players. I don't know why some fans feel the need to deny that, or rationalize that. 

I can understand if you agree with their plan. I mean, I strongly DISagree with that philosophy, but that's certainly open for debate.

What ISN'T open for debate is the fact the Twins do hold players out for no reason other than "load management." 

They schedule days off (pretty rigidly, at that), limit innings pitched zealously, and err on the side of "an extra day or 2 off after a mild injury" every time. Every. Time. All the time. 

 

 

 

[Fire Dan Gladden]

2 hours ago, Woof Bronzer said:

Like any business, I'd argue the Twins owe the fans, to whom they are selling a product, honesty and transparency about the product they are selling.  This goes without saying in every other business in the world - would anyone argue that say Best Buy doesn't owe product information to their customers?  "Hey, if you want a tv, you'll have to buy it to find out what kind."   No one is asking for player charts, so you've successfully knocked down the HIPAA strawman you constructed :)  And you are stating your opinion as though it is fact.  You're entitled to your opinion, but it's pretty poor form to christen your opinion as the one true fact and angrily shut down debate.  

While not quoting HIPAA as fact, I was also not using it correctly.  I will give the mea culpa on this part.  This article gives a better description of HIPAA with regards to professional athletes:
https://healthlawpulse.wordpress.com/2021/10/01/hipaa-and-pro-sports-lets-get-the-record-straight/

Regarding the product on the field, using your analogy, Best Buy only provides information they are legally bound to provide and information which they believe will help sell their products.  They are not going to provide their marketing plan, their wholesale cost, or any other thousands of items which may give them an edge over their competitors.

The Twins balance what they want the public to know with what is actually happening.  Very rarely do they match up 100%.  Every other sports team in the nation does this.  Every business does this.  I don't understand how anybody thinks a professional sports team, one that relies on athletic and strategic advantages, should be totally transparent.

[JD-TWINS]

9 hours ago, MABB1959 said:

SO FRUSTRATING!!!   How can it be justified?  So what he stays healthy for the end of the season?  While opportunities are lost at the beginning?  

Kind of a waste of the DH role?  He was supposed to be paid for his CF and speed.  He is a decent hitter but it seems now he can't steal?  Needing an extra day off every week?

If I could only do 1/3 of my job and needed an extra day off, I probably wouldn't have my job long.

 

He’s prone to injury - knew that when we extended him. He’s averaged playing in 46% of games over 7 of his 8 seasons. This year he’s batting around .340 and has been in the line-up 9 of 10 games. How are we wasting the DH spot? …….he’s specifically helped us win at least 3 games!

Taylor is ever bit as good of a CF - not as good looking as an athlete compared to Buck but he can play CF. ……..He really should be an emergency back-up v. RH pitching & he should start all 40 (roughly) starts v. LH pitching. 

Our problem is Polanco is hurt …..,,when he comes back, Gordon will play CF v. RH pitching and our offense will be fine. L

Buxton will still play CF 40-50 games & will be ready a needed for playoffs.

We need his bat!! Other guys can catch fly balls as well - might not look as flashy/entertaining but they’re still outs.

[JD-TWINS]

2 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

What info are they withholding? Byron Buxton won't play CF until mid-May. If you're waiting to hear if he's in the field or not before now and then they've already told you he won't be. Carlos Correa has back spasms and can't, or won't, be playing through them today. They hope he'll be back tomorrow, but can't promise it. Same situation with Gallo and his side. Kepler won't be playing at all as he's on the IL with a knee issue. Any other info you feel they're withholding and not being transparent about? Or would you like them to predict the future and tell you exactly when Correa's back will be better and Gallo's side will be better?

I don't even care about privacy rules. What information are the Twins withholding that other teams are giving out? In any major sport. The Twins tell us what the injury is, what their hoped for time table is, and give updates on those things daily (unless it's a long-term thing they just address here and there). They've given us a rough timeline for Polanco as he works back. There's articles out nearly weekly about Lewis and his progress. What more do fans want? What more do they see other teams giving? There's a difference between not being honest and transparent, and not having all the answers.

I don’t understand all the angst about transparency?

If the guy can play he’ll play to help the Team win games. If they are nicked up or are having back spasms or whatever, it’s an issue. Players play when they are able!

What more do fans want & why?

The only rational reasons to be bothered by the injury report every day is because one is playing fantasy & needs to know what moves to make, one is betting the games and needs to know the level of health for every guy in & out of the line-up, or one is suffering from some Control Disorder. …….,right?

At some point the fans have to believe or assume the FO - Manager - Players are all trying to win games as best they can. No idiots involved & no conspiracy.

[KGB]

At this point, you just have to hope for a Paul Molitor run. Injury prone in his 20's and productive in his 30's. Unfortunately, like Molitor, that means he need to be primarily a DH.

[dxpavelka]

10 hours ago, MABB1959 said:

SO FRUSTRATING!!!   How can it be justified?  So what he stays healthy for the end of the season?  While opportunities are lost at the beginning?  

Kind of a waste of the DH role?  He was supposed to be paid for his CF and speed.  He is a decent hitter but it seems now he can't steal?  Needing an extra day off every week?

If I could only do 1/3 of my job and needed an extra day off, I probably wouldn't have my job long.

 

If you could do a third of Buxton's job our problems would be solved.  You can't.

 

[JD-TWINS]

9 hours ago, MarkTwins said:

Buxton should be in centerfield, unless he's really not healthy. This is a really baffling strategy by the Twins. 

Don’t get it? Baffling???

He’s played in 46% of the games on average in 7 of 8 seasons. One year he played 140 games - average of 74 in all others. Doing the same thing over & over and expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity. Time for a different strategy in ‘23.

He’s been in the line-up 9 of 10 games this year - helped us win at least 3 of them - batting around .340.

Meantime, with Polanco hurt we can’t play our LH bat (Gordon) in CF v. RH pitching…….an offensive issue……we still have a Gold Glove guy in CF though in Taylor.

We’re 6-4 and Buxton is thriving at the plate.

If people need to see Byron make spectacular catches in CF to be happy wait until late May & forward when Buxton will probably start 1/2 the time in CF ………or pull something up on Youtube.

[Craig Arko]

Too bad Bux has no value as a DH. 

[DocBauer]

So much angst over Buxton DHing right now.

If the offense wasn't starting slow this season, would we be having this conversation?

If Taylor, all by his lonesome, was off to a better start, would we be having this conversation? 

I don't want Buck as the full time DH either. Taylor is a tremendous CF, but I want Buxton out there. And I want an ever better bat to fill that DH spot on the normal rotation basis. But if letting Buck ramp up slowly, save some pounding on his legs to start the season, and some regular turns at DH during the season, can keep him more healthy for the season, I have zero problem with that. 

And the Twibs have been very open about this, basically stating that very thing, ramp him up, save some pounding on his legs, keep him fresh. There is nothing being hidden here.

BUT, I do have to say that I've never liked a full time DH unless they were special. Think Cruz, for example. I prefer the deepest and most talented roster I can put together and rotate the DH. SO, if Buxton DID become a full time, or mostly so, DH one if these days, and the Twins plug in another high quality bat in CF...Martin, Lewis, Rodriguez, etc...might Buxton just become one of those SPECIAL DH bats?

I don't think there is any sort of plan to do that at this time. But it's worth considering down the road. For now he's simply being ramped up and "saved" a bit.

Correa and Gallo aren't playing a few games because they are "tweaked" at the moment. They aren't being held out to cheat the fans or because the Twins aren't trying to win. Come May, Polanco should be back, Buck will start playing more CF, and both Correa and Gallo should be OK in a day or two. I get frustration and disappointment, but come on, nobody is withholding anything or not trying to win. 

[AlwaysinModeration]

I feel like the Twins should bring in Ichiro to work with Buxton on gaining flexibility so he might be a bit less injury-prone.  And maybe some stuntmen from the movies to help him improve his landings, rolls, and slides so he is a little less awkward on impact.

As for the plan to keep DHing him for another month until his knee is back to normal, I’m fine with it.  The season is long.  As Billy Beane said (paraphrasing), you spend two months seeing what you have and what you need, two months getting what you need, and two months playing with the team you wanted.  This season seems like it can fit that blueprint pretty well, Buxton included.  (Although most of the “getting what you need” may entail getting the Polancos, Kiriloffs, Lewis, Juliens…and Buxtons on the field.)

[TopGunn#22]

I haven't been a fan of treating Buxton like he's a porcelain doll from the get go.  If it was up to me I'd forbid him from head first slides because he's terrible at them.  That's how he hurt the knee last year.  Resting him as a DH is laughable.  Not allowing him to play ONE INNING of defense in CF was highly questionable.  

[Woof Bronzer]

17 hours ago, SwainZag said:

I am amazed how many of you think the Twins are purposely not playing their best players, 

 

This is my point though, they ARE purposely not playing their best players!  Ask the Twins and I'm sure they would tell you the same.  You can't call a "scheduled off day" anything other than "purposely not playing their best players".  If you think load management is helpful and supported by evidence, fine, make that argument, but I really don't understand the reflex to defend the FO by saying "actually the sky is pink and I'm amazed anyone thinks it's blue".   

[Nickcard3]

Having Buxtons bat in the lineup is wayyyy more important than having him in CF, have some patience, hopefully when the weather warms up and others get healthy they move him into CF, at that point they will need ABs for some of their better hitters at DH. The people complaining about him at DH are probably the same ones who want him to bunt more. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

3 hours ago, TopGunn#22 said:

I haven't been a fan of treating Buxton like he's a porcelain doll from the get go.  If it was up to me I'd forbid him from head first slides because he's terrible at them.  That's how he hurt the knee last year.  Resting him as a DH is laughable.  Not allowing him to play ONE INNING of defense in CF was highly questionable.  

I mostly agree with you. However, on the headfirst slides, I don’t recall seeing anyone nimble enough who is able to do a headfirst pop-up slide and transfer contact with the bag from hand to foot like Buxton. I’m sure there are a few others out there but Buxton is really good at it. 

Ultimately this is on Buxton, and let’s hope he comes to camp next season  committed to playing 150 games like other star players do. 

[SwainZag]

9 hours ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

I mostly agree with you. However, on the headfirst slides, I don’t recall seeing anyone nimble enough who is able to do a headfirst pop-up slide and transfer contact with the bag from hand to foot like Buxton. I’m sure there are a few others out there but Buxton is really good at it. 

Ultimately this is on Buxton, and let’s hope he comes to camp next season  committed to playing 150 games like other star players do. 

Are your implying he didn't come to camp committed to playing?  Buxton heavily bet on himself and more than likely took a lot less money to stay in Minnesota.   Taking a shot at his commitment is a little low. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

22 minutes ago, SwainZag said:

Are your implying he didn't come to camp committed to playing?  Buxton heavily bet on himself and more than likely took a lot less money to stay in Minnesota.   Taking a shot at his commitment is a little low. 

No.

[chpettit19]

2 hours ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

No.

Then what was "Ultimately this is on Buxton, and let’s hope he comes to camp next season committed to playing 150 games like other star players do" implying?

[jkcarew]

I've been somewhat of a critic of WAR. But in this case, WAR seems an appropriate way of looking at Buxton's value...

At current rate (has about the same OPS he posted in 2022), if Buxton were to play all year at DH, his bWAR would come in around 3.5 for the season. That's LESS THAN what he posted in each of the last two seasons when he played about half the season (or less)...but primarily played CF.

They're darned if they do, and darned if they don't. And I don't think we can assume that DH'ing will have a huge favorable impact on how many games he can play. Should help in theory. And then we witness yesterday's baserunning debacle.