Too Many Outfielders, Another Perplexing Acquisition for the Twins

[Reptevia]

“This signing only makes good sense if Kepler is dealt, at least for me. I guess it's possible they think both larnach and AK are too hurt to start the year, otherwise they are blocking at least one of them if Kepler is still here. ”. Or maybe they KNOW Kepler WILL be dealt and Maybe they KNOW AK and Larnach are far from returning?  There is a lot WE just don’t know. 

[ashbury]

41 minutes ago, dberthia said:

This should be the official team slogan.

Other contenders:

"He used to be with us."

"I recognize that name."

"If he can just stay healthy."

[Dr Katz]

Relax everyone, the Twins have a plan for all those outfielders, and for losing Correa. They will remove the shortstop and now use 4 outfielders in every game. No team will ever hit a triple against the Twins next season, and think of all the assists those 4 outfielders will get throwing runners out. Problems solved! 

[Reptevia]

8 minutes ago, Dr Katz said:

Relax everyone, the Twins have a plan for all those outfielders, and for losing Correa. They will remove the shortstop and now use 4 outfielders in every game. No team will ever hit a triple against the Twins next season, and think of all the assists those 4 outfielders will get throwing runners out. Problems solved! 

And the dWar of those outfielders will skyrocket!  

[adorduan]

Ok, this might be a little nitpicky, but it drives me nuts when writers say a players has a breakout season, when they have a career year and then don't repeat it. To me a breakout season is one that the player continues to maintain or even improve on. One good season isn't a breakout, it's a fluke.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

We have heard “don’t trade Kepler when his value is at a low point” plenty of times in the last 18 months. Now as of today, with the Gallo signing, we have two starting right fielders.

So, yeah. 

Follow up: so on double checking, it looks like Gallo has played a lot of left, too. At bats taken away from younger players? Or “you can never have too many good players”?

I agree with you @Sherry Cerny that dealings Urshela was a huge disappointment, for the reasons you stated. 

[dxpavelka]

By definition, the fact that you're running guys like Gordon, Contreras, Garlick (and Cave) out there means that you DON'T have to many outfielders.

[Jacksson]

Signing Gallo is just a debt repayment to Boras for "gifting" the Twins with a disguised single year contract for Correa last year.  Now the Twins help out Gallo to rebuild his value and stay in the good graces of Boras for future "sweetheart" deals.

[KBJ1]

We needed a RH OF with speed & power, not another lefty with a worse WAR than Kepler. This makes zero sense.

Maybe we can get something for him when we becomes "sellers" next July.

Waste.

[bighat]

15 hours ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

....it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that hitting under .200 is bad and striking out 40% of the time is bad.  Am I wrong? Has the game I love and thought I understood, changed so much? What am I missing here? 

You're not wrong. I'm a generation younger than you are and I agree with all of this. 

The problem is that the fascination with advanced metrics has gone too far. We've got guys who are getting millions based on things like "barrel % rate" or "OPS +" or "WOBA" - meanwhile they are hitting .180 and striking out half the time. 

The way people talk about Ryan Jeffers on this site, you'd think he was Johnny Bench. Take a look at the guy's stats. If he came along between 1946-2006 he'd have been out of a job by now. He can't even throw out runners! 

Don't get me wrong: I totally see the value in the advanced metrics and think they are fascinating. It's a great way to find some hidden gems or some players who might be on their way to having breakout seasons. But that doesn't mean we should throw stats like batting average and RBI out the window.

Alas, all too often criticism like this is considered "old men yelling at clouds" and dismissed. Oh well. Such is life. As we get older, things change, and we just so happen to be alive to watch baseball go through some bumps in the road as the sport makes a significant strategic adjustment here in the 2020s. 

[Riverbrian]

I have never seen a year when the Twins had "Too Many" of anything. 

I have however read multiple articles and posts every year suggesting that we have too many of something.  

I beg for a log jam. I beg for it. It has literally never happened. 

[William K Johnson]

Jose Miranda cannot play third base. 

[Whitey333]

Gallo signing was perplexing.  He's just a minor upgrade from Sano in that Gallo can play a little defense .  It won't take long to boo him and his 39% strikeout rate.  At 11 million I believe he is our third highest paid player.  What a waste of payroll.  Did they check his strikeout rate?  Did the check his career .199 average?  Did they check his .156 clutch hitting average?  I'm sure they did.  That's how Twins do business.  What ifs and hope that's how the Twins operate.  Remember this FO recently said, It's the process and not the results that's important.

[Otaknam]

The Gallo signing makes no sense even if they trade Kepler. They have too many lefty hitting outfielders, including younger ones with more potential. Another head scratcher from the FO. I’m usually a Twins optimist. But add to this mess an incompetent Rocco’s handling of his starting pitching staff and this team is going nowhere in 2023. 

[old nurse]

13 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

And what does Gallo have to do with that?

At best Gallo is Nelson Cruz, at worst Park. One helped the team win, one did not. I did not think the concept was that hard to get

[old nurse]

14 hours ago, ashbury said:

Archer and Bundy also likely had visions along those lines, with guaranteed 1-year contracts* also. It's a win for the player who comes through, it's a nothing-ventured nothing-gained situation for the ones who don't, but it's an opportunity cost for the team itself unless these players come through more than 1-in-3 during a season.

* Correa was technically 3-years guaranteed but in practical terms it was 1-year with a generous insurance policy attached

Archer was an attempt to be able to pitch an entire season. For Buddy it was to prove the one season wasn’t a fluke. That is a far different situation. Nice try

[Greglw3]

19 hours ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

I really am at a loss for a reasonable explanation about the Gallo signing. I am very disappointed in the FO decision to sign Gallo.  But then I'm old school.  What do I know. Not much, since I only played baseball 7 years during the spring and summer, and  through high school 50 years ago and only coached little league 3 seasons and only played intermural softball in college and a few years after in a men's church league. Really not enough experience to form an opinion that anyone else, much less the professional and experienced FO with the Twins organization, would pay any attention to.  Now I only watch baseball and attend a dozen games a year.  But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that hitting under .200 is bad and striking out 40% of the time is bad.  Am I wrong? Has the game I love and thought I understood, changed so much? What am I missing here? 

The game has changed but being clear that I would have rather had Brantley or Binentendi, Gallo has hit 38 HR once and over 40 HR twice. That’s Mike Schmidt, or even Hank Aaron territory for 3 years. Plus he mitigated his low batting average in 2021 with a wildly high and very significant amount of walks, 111. He’s won 2 gold gloves and 2 all star appearances. It’s a gamble but one that might pay huge dividends. Even if he does bounce back, it’s just a one year deal, like Correa’s.

I’m extremely perplexed with the offseason so far but very guardedly optimistic about what they may do in trades. Aside from the one year  when they went out and got Nelson Cruz, Schoop, and C.J. Cron, their offseason and judgments have fallen flatter than a pancake since.

Maybe they can rally. A signing of Segura, a trade for Gleybar Torres, a trade for Pablo Lopez, a trade of Kepler and a trade of Polanco and possibly even (gasp) Arraez, yielding another outfielder and maybe a 3rd baseman that has solid MLB credentials, along with 1 of Kirilloff and Larnach could shake things up.

Conforto is still available, probably until I check MLBTR today. Plus, maybe Julien or Austin Martin arrive this year. Lewis, I hope he’s back this year but my view is tempered by having been a Bulls fan when Derrick Rose tore his ACL two years in a row. He’s never been the same since.

[MGM4706]

Amazing that so many don't understand what the change in the Shift Rule will mean to Kepler. Probably 30 points on his average! Then you got a gold glove outfielder with an above average batting average at a good contract value. Put Gallo in left where all those guys have struggled. Larnach can't hit a breaking ball like Sano. So put him in St Paul and see if they can fix him.

[hitterscount]

It's quantity over quality as far as the OF goes. When healthy Buxton is really good.... the problem, he is never healthy and might give you 40 -100 games. 

When talking trades I am surprised that Polanco isn't brought up. There has to be some value there and they have a logical choice to plug in with Arraez . The Arraez experiment at 1st was, IMO, a fail. Trading Urshela made no sense.  Freeing up $$ when the FO knew they had zero chance at signing Correa shows how incompetent they are when you look at the return.   

Looking at this roster it is difficult to see a team that even gets close to .500. The OF is a mess,  The IF is a disaster and our starting pitching has one reliable arm in Ryan... everyone else has injury concerns. There is nothing to get excited about. We made it to last June before the wheels came off and as it stands today the balloon has been deflated before spring training even begins. 

 

[Greglw3]

12 hours ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

We have heard “don’t trade Kepler when his value is at a low point” plenty of times in the last 18 months. Now as of today, with the Gallo signing, we have two starting right fielders.

So, yeah. 

Follow up: so on double checking, it looks like Gallo has played a lot of left, too. At bats taken away from younger players? Or “you can never have too many good players”?

I agree with you @Sherry Cerny that dealings Urshela was a huge disappointment, for the reasons you stated. 

What about Willie Norwood?! :-)

[nicksaviking]

Is Gallo going to be the back up CF? If so, signing him makes more sense if the team isn't actually looking at trading Kepler, but the more controllable (and valuable?) Nick Gordon, who is the current preferred back up CF option.

It still makes very little sense.

[LewFordLives]

Good article. I generally agree with most of it. I do disagree with the notion that cutting ties with Urshela had anything to do with saving money to sign Correa. The amount Urshela would have gotten in arbitration would have been a pittance compared to Correa's deal. And if that was the driver behind the decision, then this organization really needs some self examination.

Completely agree that moving Urshela was perplexing. Are they really that confident in Miranda?  Farmer can play 3B, but then who plays SS?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

2 hours ago, William K Johnson said:

Jose Miranda cannot play third base. 

No but we’ve seen guys practice and get better.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

12 hours ago, dxpavelka said:

By definition, the fact that you're running guys like Gordon, Contreras, Garlick (and Cave) out there means that you DON'T have to many outfielders.

Is this supposed to be a rebuttal to the opinion that the Gallo signing makes no sense? Heh.

[Mike Sixel]

4 hours ago, bighat said:

You're not wrong. I'm a generation younger than you are and I agree with all of this. 

The problem is that the fascination with advanced metrics has gone too far. We've got guys who are getting millions based on things like "barrel % rate" or "OPS +" or "WOBA" - meanwhile they are hitting .180 and striking out half the time. 

The way people talk about Ryan Jeffers on this site, you'd think he was Johnny Bench. Take a look at the guy's stats. If he came along between 1946-2006 he'd have been out of a job by now. He can't even throw out runners! 

Don't get me wrong: I totally see the value in the advanced metrics and think they are fascinating. It's a great way to find some hidden gems or some players who might be on their way to having breakout seasons. But that doesn't mean we should throw stats like batting average and RBI out the window.

Alas, all too often criticism like this is considered "old men yelling at clouds" and dismissed. Oh well. Such is life. As we get older, things change, and we just so happen to be alive to watch baseball go through some bumps in the road as the sport makes a significant strategic adjustment here in the 2020s. 

Jeffers is still younger than Garver was when he first came up...... You think he's s finished product? The game has changed. You don't have to like it, but these players are so much better at the game than previous generations, it isn't close.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

1 hour ago, Greglw3 said:

The game has changed but being clear that I would have rather had Brantley or Binentendi, Gallo has hit 38 HR once and over 40 HR twice. That’s Mike Schmidt, or even Hank Aaron territory for 3 years. Plus he mitigated his low batting average in 2021 with a wildly high and very significant amount of walks, 111. He’s won 2 gold gloves and 2 all star appearances. It’s a gamble but one that might pay huge dividends. Even if he does bounce back, it’s just a one year deal, like Correa’s.

I’m extremely perplexed with the offseason so far but very guardedly optimistic about what they may do in trades. Aside from the one year  when they went out and got Nelson Cruz, Schoop, and C.J. Cron, their offseason and judgments have fallen flatter than a pancake since.

Maybe they can rally. A signing of Segura, a trade for Gleybar Torres, a trade for Pablo Lopez, a trade of Kepler and a trade of Polanco and possibly even (gasp) Arraez, yielding another outfielder and maybe a 3rd baseman that has solid MLB credentials, along with 1 of Kirilloff and Larnach could shake things up.

Conforto is still available, probably until I check MLBTR today. Plus, maybe Julien or Austin Martin arrive this year. Lewis, I hope he’s back this year but my view is tempered by having been a Bulls fan when Derrick Rose tore his ACL two years in a row. He’s never been the same since.

Your reply is really helpful when I examine the Gallo signing. You made some really good points that have helped me see the Gallo signing as not as bad as I first thought. Thank you. 

[mikelink45]

1 hour ago, old nurse said:

At best Gallo is Nelson Cruz, at worst Park. One helped the team win, one did not. I did not think the concept was that hard to get

Well he is not Nelson Cruz   Gallo has 1048 Ks in 8 seasons  752 games (1.4 per game) -  - Cruz 1870 in 18 seasons  2006 games - (.93 per game)  Lifetime averages - Cruz 274 BA - Gallo 199.  This is a comparison I cannot buy into.

[old nurse]

22 minutes ago, mikelink45 said:

Well he is not Nelson Cruz   Gallo has 1048 Ks in 8 seasons  752 games (1.4 per game) -  - Cruz 1870 in 18 seasons  2006 games - (.93 per game)  Lifetime averages - Cruz 274 BA - Gallo 199.  This is a comparison I cannot buy into.

Holy F does one have to watch how one says things on this board. It is worse than politics At this point it is pointless to say anything. Have a nice holiday. Have a nice Christmas if you don’t like the previous term. If you don’t do the holidays, sorry about that

[jmlease1]

3 hours ago, William K Johnson said:

Jose Miranda cannot play third base. 

Clearly he can or the twins wouldn't be slotting him in there. Is he a superior defender at the position? By no means. Can he improve to where he is average or better? Doesn't seem unreasonable. (Trevor Plouffe was dreadful when he started playing 3B by his own admission, Koskie looked rough often in his early seasons before turning into a Gold Glove caliber player, so it's not like we don't have history with this)

I wanted the twins to keep Urshela; he was healthy and pretty consistent. But he wasn't a great defender either: he made highlight plays, but also more than his share of lowlight plays, and his range was going to the point that he simply isn't a reasonable option at SS (and was hampering his ability at 3B and ability to fill in at 2B, frankly). Miranda played well enough that is more than reasonable to slot him in at 3B and roll.

I would like to see a few more moves to settle things more for the OF. I didn't like the Gallo deal, I still don't like it. I wanted a corner OF who hit from the other side. I guess if you're not having a lot of faith in Wallner being ready (or good enough in the OF; he's not a great route runner and fielder, which limits the utility of his plus arm, and the range ain't nothing to write home about either), and not counting on Larnach & Kirilloff being healthy, and maybe expecting to trade kepler...

Blegh. Still don't like it.

It is a fair statement that the twins need health in the OF. Not sure Gallo really fixes that.

[CTDookie]

I’m just tired of them signing guys hoping to have a bounceback year.  Bargain basement shopping is not a viable strategy.  Every year we sign guys whose best years are way in the rear view mirror, hoping to squeeze that last piece off lightning out of the bottle.  And almost always fail.