Rumor: Arraez Potentially on Trade Block for Pitching

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, KirbyDome89 said:

I'd phrase it as "Is Luis Arraez worth a frontline SP," and not vice versa. If I'm a Brewers fan I wouldn't be thrilled about giving up an elite arm for Arraez. I really enjoy watching the guy play, but his limited defensive ability + health issues are well documented. 

Arraez plus Winder or Balavovich+ or something like that.....

[Brock Beauchamp]

5 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

I'd phrase it as "Is Luis Arraez worth a frontline SP," and not vice versa. If I'm a Brewers fan I wouldn't be thrilled about giving up an elite arm for Arraez. I really enjoy watching the guy play, but his limited defensive ability + health issues are well documented. 

No way does Arraez alone net Woodruff, much less Burnes.

[Mike Sixel]

7 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Arraez plus Winder or Balavovich+ or something like that.....

quoting myself, this likely isn't enough either......more like add in Ober or Varland.

[stringer bell]

22 minutes ago, gman said:

If they trade Arraez, they also need to trade Polanco, Kepler, Gray Maeda, Buxton (if possible) and forget about Correa. Just clear the decks and do a total rebuild.

I am too old to advocate a total rebuild. Three or four years (or a decade if you're KC) to have a watchable team is too much of my future. There is enough talent to put a good offense (and decent defense) on the field. 

I think the Twins staff's evaluation of possible table setters (Martin, Julien and Lee) has a lot to do with how willing they would be to part with the proven Arraez. 

[KirbyDome89]

7 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

quoting myself, this likely isn't enough either......more like add in Ober or Varland.

Yeah even then I'd feel much better about the swap as a Twins fan, which tells me the deal isn't all that even. FWIW I don't value Ober nearly as much as some here do. 

[KirbyDome89]

12 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

No way does Arraez alone net Woodruff, much less Burnes.

Of course. Idk he headlines a deal for anybody of that caliber either.

[Brock Beauchamp]

1 minute ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Of course. Idk he headlines a deal for anybody of that caliber either.

Yeah, I don't see that happening unless he co-headlines the deal with someone like Lee or maybe even Kirilloff.

[gman]

34 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Based on having Polanco at 2nd, and one of Miranda/Kiriloff/Larnach at first, and one of those plus Wallner at DH? No, just no. 

Though I'd deal Kepler to free up money and RF for Wallner. 

Painful thought isn't it? The team is pretty much in a treading water position in possibly the worst division in baseball. They need a really big jump start to ever get enough good payers on hand to make meaningful progress. We know they are npt going to ever add 100mil in free agents to make the leap. Watching them be an 80 win team year after year is certainly not gratifying.

[ashbury]

Those of us of a certain age will think "Kuenn for Colavito" when the subject of trading away a reigning batting champion comes up. I don't believe Detroit ever regretted receiving the reigning HR champion in return. The situations aren't really that similar, but the concept definitely can work out, if you can find a taker. I'm not sure the term "batting champion" carries the same weight with front offices anymore, though, in terms of what they'd offer.

[mnfireman]

In the current MLB, BA average means less than OPS or wRC. Analytics have de-valued the stats us older guys grew up looking at on the back of the baseball card....

[Nashvilletwin]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Hated that Joe Ryan trade, huh. Or the Gray trade? They've had hits and misses......

 

34 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

I'd phrase it as "Is Luis Arraez worth a frontline SP," and not vice versa. If I'm a Brewers fan I wouldn't be thrilled about giving up an elite arm for Arraez. I really enjoy watching the guy play, but his limited defensive ability + health issues are well documented. 

Those were strong trades - love Ryan and Gray has produced. You are correct.  But I’m not willing to take a hit or miss approach with an all star on a low priced contract and several years of control and lots of improvement ahead of him.  Cruz and Berrios (unsignable and overrated) were one thing - Arraez is another in my book.  If we move Arraez, it better be for more certainty than Ryan was at the time of his acquisition or Mahle who has not proven to date, and may or may not ever prove, his value. 

[RpR]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

. Though I'd deal Kepler to free up money and RF for Wallner. 

NO, just NO

 

[tarheeltwinsfan]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

Sign me up. With no power and no glove, his value can rise and fall in the blink of an eye.

I know the draw is that he's a throw back to a time when some of us got more enjoyment out of the game, but the 1982 Cardinals probably lose 100 games if they got transported to 2023.

I suppose the 1982 Cardinals could win 62 games in 2023, even though they would all be over the age of 63 and many some would be in their mid-70's and Jim Kaat would be 85. I bet Ozzie Smith could still pick it at age 68.   

[tarheeltwinsfan]

33 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Those of us of a certain age will think "Kuenn for Colavito" when the subject of trading away a reigning batting champion comes up. I don't believe Detroit ever regretted receiving the reigning HR champion in return. The situations aren't really that similar, but the concept definitely can work out, if you can find a taker. I'm not sure the term "batting champion" carries the same weight with front offices anymore, though, in terms of what they'd offer.

I guess I would trade Arraez (Batting Champion) for Judge (HR Champion), if only Judge weren't a free agent. Alas. 

[nicksaviking]

6 minutes ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

I suppose the 1982 Cardinals could win 62 games in 2023, even though they would all be over the age of 63 and many some would be in their mid-70's and Jim Kaat would be 85. I bet Ozzie Smith could still pick it at age 68.   

Even in their primes, they'd never make enough meaningful contact against the movement and velocity they'd see in today's pitches to win playing station to station baseball.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

51 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

I am too old to advocate a total rebuild. Three or four years (or a decade if you're KC) to have a watchable team is too much of my future. There is enough talent to put a good offense (and decent defense) on the field. 

I think the Twins staff's evaluation of possible table setters (Martin, Julien and Lee) has a lot to do with how willing they would be to part with the proven Arraez. 

Good point String. It all depends on who the Twins could get for Arraez. Everything is relative. 

[Mike Sixel]

36 minutes ago, Nashvilletwin said:

 

Those were strong trades - love Ryan and Gray has produced. You are correct.  But I’m not willing to take a hit or miss approach with an all star on a low priced contract and several years of control and lots of improvement ahead of him.  Cruz and Berrios (unsignable and overrated) were one thing - Arraez is another in my book.  If we move Arraez, it better be for more certainty than Ryan was at the time of his acquisition or Mahle who has not proven to date, and may or may not ever prove, his value. 

Fair take. We just don't agree.

[Minfidel]

4 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Hated that Joe Ryan trade, huh. Or the Gray trade? They've had hits and misses......

And the Maeda trade - the FO was just rubbing our noses in it then, getting a guy who'd contend for the Cy Young because they knew it would make our tears taste all the sweeter when he went TJ. 

[rwilfong86]

That would be a horrible trade but wouldn't be too surprising since the Twins current management aren't known for making smart moves at this point. 

[Battle ur tail off]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Fair take. We just don't agree.

So you would be OK trading Aaraez for a guy that profiles the same as a guy like Joe Ryan or Mahle? To me, if you are going to trade your leadoff hitter/best hitter, it needs to be for a guy that is Ace quality. Even if it takes a package(which it likely would) I feel like moving a guy that does as much as he does for this lineup, you need to bring back a real stud. Not a 2-3 starter. Someone that is better than any starter we have on the roster right now as slots ahead of them in the rotation. In fact

ANY trade with ANY player we for pitching use should have that caveat. We just have lots of 3-5 type arms in the system right now. 

How about Aaraez and one of our minor league pitchers for Woodruff? Winder? Varland? SWR? Could we add some other prospect other than Lee or Lewis position player wise that they might want?

 

 

[Battle ur tail off]

2 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

 If we move Arraez, it better be for more certainty than Ryan was at the time of his acquisition or Mahle who has not proven to date, and may or may not ever prove, his value. 

I would agree. If they are willing to move a guy like Aaraez, I would prefer it be for someone that would be our number 1. Even if you have to add to the deal(you will)

[Mike Sixel]

5 minutes ago, Battle ur tail off said:

So you would be OK trading Aaraez for a guy that profiles the same as a guy like Joe Ryan or Mahle? To me, if you are going to trade your leadoff hitter/best hitter, it needs to be for a guy that is Ace quality. Even if it takes a package(which it likely would) I feel like moving a guy that does as much as he does for this lineup, you need to bring back a real stud. Not a 2-3 starter. Someone that is better than any starter we have on the roster right now as slots ahead of them in the rotation. In fact

ANY trade with ANY player we for pitching use should have that caveat. We just have lots of 3-5 type arms in the system right now. 

How about Aaraez and one of our minor league pitchers for Woodruff? Winder? Varland? SWR? Could we add some other prospect other than Lee or Lewis position player wise that they might want?

 

 

did I say that? If so, that's not what I thought I said. I thought I said I'd be willing to deal him for a top of the line pitcher (with others also leaving).

[RpR]

I was not an Arraez fan, but he has earned my respect, and I believe what he does next year will show what to expect in the future and he should do it here.

Players also decide to come to a team, and how well they do,  by how a team treats its players; I believe the Twins have had a reputation of treating most players as a person who is part of a family; If the Twins start acting like a seraglio , whose players are  viewed as  demimonde little wonder why a player would not come here.

[notoriousgod71]

Arraez has more value to the Twins than any other team. We're not getting a Frontline starter for him. If we trade him for some 3 or 4 starter that gives us one more mediocre arm to go four innings while losing our best hitter.

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, notoriousgod71 said:

Arraez has more value to the Twins than any other team. We're not getting a Frontline starter for him. If we trade him for some 3 or 4 starter that gives us one more mediocre arm to go four innings while losing our best hitter.

No one is arguing he's enough to get one on his own. 

[notoriousgod71]

59 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

No one is arguing he's enough to get one on his own. 

Oh I know. But I suspect my version of a frontline starter is far different than the front office's.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

For a real ace starting pitcher, no one is off the table (if the total package price is right). I’d totally trade Arraez plus for Woodruff or Burnes.

[Paul Walerius]

7 hours ago, stringer bell said:

I think Arraez' value is at an all-time high. He is under team control for three more years and coming off a year when he won a batting championship and a silver slugger. This is the ideal time to trade him, knowing that he may well win several batting championships in the future. 

We know what he is: a unicorn in several respects--he makes contact, works counts and sprays hits all over the field. He has worked to be a better fielder (and I think he is more than passable at either first or second). His lifetime average over .300 is very rare in this pitcher and power friendly era.

We also know what Arraez is not--he has significant platoon splits, limited power, and less than average running speed. He's dealt with leg injuries the last three seasons and there is some indication that there are chronic problems with his knees. 

A deal would have to bring back quite a bit, but I don't think Luis Arraez is a cornerstone that a team is built around.

I was going to make the same point about the leg injuries.   He is also not above average at 1B or even average.  He doesn't commit errors, which is good, but he also doesn't have the instincts (at this point) or range.   He honestly is a light hitting (although he hits a lot) DH, no natural position.   

[RpR]

Never thought I would be advocating for Arraez but , yes, his range is below average but his runs above average per year are 9 at first base and 17 at second.

[dxpavelka]

If all the guys we have on the horizon pan out it's a smart move.  I'm CERTAIN they all will.