In Win-Now Mode, Twins Keeping Graterol in Bullpen

In my opinion he is just as likely to blow out his arm throwing 100mph out of the pen.   They can tell themselves they are protecting his arm and it might be the absolute best thing they can do or the absolute worst and anywhere in between.     Is throwing 180 innings in 30 starts with a fastball at 96 better or worse than throwing 60 times out of the pen at 101?   No way of knowing.    Not surprising that throwing over 100 as a starter 5 innings at a time has caused some strain but no real science to back up that either.    I was hoping he would start right out of the gate but he should be a significant asset out of the pen.     Now we are talking Berrios, Odo, Bailey, Dobnak and Thorpe/Shmeltzer?

The only practical alternative would have been to have him start until Pineda returns, shut him down, and bring him back in September. And that’s probably not very realistic either. Theoretically at least, as a reliever he can be available for the entire year. We’ll see.

I still want to see him as a starter at some point but then I think of Romero and Meyer.  This is probably for the best for this year, and the pen was lacking a velocity arm.

Rodgers

Romo

Clippard

Duffey

May

Graterol

Littel

Open competition spot

2: Graterol wasn't going to be a factor for the Twins as a starter this year. Even if he avoids injuries entirely, there was no scenario in which he was going to handle a starter's workload all season long, and still be available for October.

I reject this premise(above.)   Graterol probably threw 200 innings when he was 15 years old.  "Building him up" to be a starter for a couple of years doesn't fit with biology which probably says that he is now at (or close) to his physical peak.   Building up Odorizzi's arm in spring training to be a starter could easily be done for Graterol as well.   Now if the staff didn't think he could be a quality starter (like Homer Bailey,) then that is an arguement I am comfortable with leaving up to Wes Johnson.

Johan Santana is my all time favorite Twins pitcher (Camilo Pasqual is my sentimental 2nd) I saw greatness in Santana when he 1st start pitching & couldn`t figure out why they didn`t utilize him more as a starter from the beginning (now I better understand). I have the same hope in Graterol as an ace starter. He has the poise to pitch in the ML. He just needs to develop his secondary pitches to offset his FB. Yes, I`d like to see the Twins go all out this year too but the BP isn`t a problem spot where we have to have Gaterol, our problem spot is SP. So there we need to focus on. I think we are better served down the road to have Gaterol start in the minors to work primarily on his secondary pitches & rotate him up in the majors as needed as an opener. Absolutely we need to limit his pitches, we can still do that as him as a starter & slowly increase his playing time. By the time PS comes around, hopefully he`ll  have all his pitches working to start  in the play-offs if not he can be used in the pen then. Next year we`ll have an more establish starter. 

All that said I trust Wes Johnson. That`s why they pay him the big bucks & I`m only an armchair manager

I've been impressed with the Twins approach to communicating expectations for players. However anyone feels about the choice, at least Graterol can prepare for camp understanding their plans for him. 

I hope they avoid using Graterol as a "fireman" to start the season. IMO, irregular work might be as hard on his arm as starting. I'd rather see him pitch multiple innings in tandem with the 5th starter.

It would be fun to see Graterol in combination with Smeltzer to start the season.   Smeltzer throwing low velocity, high spin fastballs mixed with three offspeed pitches. Graterol following with 99 MPH sinkers and ferocious sliders from the right side. I can't think of a more radical difference in styles. Either one could start and the change would be jarring to hitters.

IMO, after watching him last year I think didn't his pitches were ready for a major league starting role, but they played well in short outings.

So to me the options are sending him back to AA as a starter to work on his pitches and who knows how long that will take. Or put him in the major league bullpen and have Johnson work with him on improving his pitches. To me the second option is the best way waste an arm that throws 100 MPH in the minors, now the bad thing with doing is this is that clock will start to FA.

This should keep the Boras Corp happy

Maybe if he had a better back story they'd let him be a starter. But story trumps stuff every time.

If he’s going to be in the bullpen, I’d like to see him pitch around 70-80 innings to build up some sort of workload. And with Berrios and Pineda as the only starters under contract next season, perhaps ST 2021 would be the best time to transition him back to the rotation.

This is good news. Win now mode vs service time crap. For many years we watched the former regime not take the very best 25 men north out of spring training. 

If Graterol is one of the 13 best pitchers in camp then he should go north.

Develop Graterol to be the mythical ace the board is lusting for.

Graterol can still be transitioned to a starter role. He isn’t stuck in the bullpen for the rest of his career. He’s still only 21. I like this move (for now), as long as they keep the options open in what he is able to do each year.

In my opinion he is just as likely to blow out his arm throwing 100mph out of the pen.   They can tell themselves they are protecting his arm and it might be the absolute best thing they can do or the absolute worst and anywhere in between.     Is throwing 180 innings in 30 starts with a fastball at 96 better or worse than throwing 60 times out of the pen at 101?   No way of knowing.    Not surprising that throwing over 100 as a starter 5 innings at a time has caused some strain but no real science to back up that either.    I was hoping he would start right out of the gate but he should be a significant asset out of the pen.     Now we are talking Berrios, Odo, Bailey, Dobnak and Thorpe/Shmeltzer?

This isn't really an "in my opinion" question - given his lack of extended work, he's far more likely to to have arm issues starting & racking up innings over the course of the year.

There have been actual studies to this end, and luckily the Twins don't need to rely on your apparently un-researched opinion. Two examples of recent studies:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6350667/

and

http://harvardsportsanalysis.org/2016/01/predicting-pitcher-injuries/

He's clearly ready to be a difference maker now but needs to continue to build up innings. Wes Johnson said he's bullpen bound but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll be used as a traditional single inning reliever. There are lots of ways they could deploy him as a multi-inning opener or reliever on somewhat of a rotation that could be mutually beneficial to the team and to his development. Maybe the Twins just feel that the best place for an arm this valuable but to date fragile is with the big league club where he'll get the best coaching, training, mentorship and nutrition the Twins can provide.

As a fan I can't wait to watch him make hitters look foolish all summer instead of just reading about it in the minor league forum game recaps. 

I was advocating for him as an early season starter transitioning to the pen when the rotation fills up. Which would limit his innings. They must think either he doesn't have the pitches for that yet or can't handle the load yet or some combination of both. I'm on board with this move for 2 reasons. I love the new FO not wasting his bullets in the minors and this move can be temporary i.e. Santana. This is aggressive and decisive management!

Edit: Make that 3 reasons, I like him up with the major league staff and players.

I support this decision.  He could be brilliant in the pen this season and having an extra talent like that is going to make the bullpen vastly improved over last season. Compared to the pre trade deadline bullpen this group is vastly improved. 

My question is if he is used this year out of the Twins pen, will he be pitching more than an inning in a lot of his appearances?  Kind of a long set-up role where he comes in and pitches 1+ or 2+ innings?  That would get his innings up this year to well over 100.

Creativity in how to use Graterol to get meaningful outs (I guess they're all meaningful but at different levels) is needed in this situation.  I'm definitely not in the camp of "just throw him out there until is arm falls off", but I don't think a hard innings limit should be penned in right out of the gate.

Steal a page from Dave Roberts or Craig Counsell and give him different situations to use his talents.  Thinking out loud, I can envision a Hader/Maeda combination weapon of some kind.

I find myself going back and forth between "like" and "hate" this when it comes to a plan for Graterol in 2020.

 

I would rather the plan be use him as a starter until you have to limit his innings out of the bullpen, but that likely means he's not on the opening day roster, so there's the tradeoff.

 

But I would also consider that I don't really see him as being needed out of the gate in the bullpen, or that this scenario is likely to happen. I certainly don't take 9.2 innings in September/October as gospel for what he could or could not do out of the bullpen.

 

Thus, if he's not going to crack the opening day roster, he should be starting to begin the year.

It might be more important that they have him early in the season with Pineda and Hill out.  Could be part of some bullpen games and such.