Blue Jays 11, Twins 4: Yuck. Twins Bullpen Surrenders Eight in the Eighth to Lose Yet Again

[Twins_Fan_For_Life]

Rarely do you see a bullpen that has zero competent arms. That's quite a feat to assemble such a collection

[thelanges5]

5 minutes ago, Twins_Fan_For_Life said:

Rarely do you see a bullpen that has zero competent arms. That's quite a feat to assemble such a collection

No velocity, no ability to miss bats, and a bad infield defense behind them.

[RpR]

Why Wallner has not been sent down is a bit of a mystery, unless they are waiting for his batting average to drop below .100.

His K rate is now 37 percent.

[mark sills]

I think you add Mathews and Festa, and see how the kids do in the bull pen. 7.8.9 between Zebby Morris, and Festa. I think Morris was set to come into game for the save if we didn't **** the bed in the eighth

[Blyleven2011]

2 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

We knew that the INF defense was bad & the BP was ugly at the beginning of the offseason & very little was done to change our situation. I'm not asking to spend big money in FA, Trades & bringing up from within the ranks could have made us into a competitor. Bringing in rejects & sticking with them well too long has cost us. Like was said, it's malpractice.

And it's getting worse by the day , these great games by the starters and then the blow up by the bullpen , it's a heartbreaker ...

[T.O.]

[adjacent]

2 hours ago, mark sills said:

how can you play Garcia when it matters that was a bad decision 

Please tell me who in that bullpen you can play when it matters...

[adjacent]

I am really sorry for Latroy Hawkins when the bullpen phone rings. He seems like a nice guy

[HerbieFan]

I feel sorry for Derek Shelton.  This roster is still Falvey's doing.  Somewhere he's sitting on his couch, sipping a drink, thinking he's always the smartest guy in the room and that he can always build a bullpen.  The disjointed roster is on him.  The lack of player development is on him.  Thanks Falvey.

There is no fixing the bullpen...they don't have enough options in the minors and they clearly have no interest in trading for anyone.  

"Hunt the good".  Buxton.  Today was a great day....I mean, you started Connor Prielipp against Dylan Cease and had the lead into the 8th.  That's about it for today.

[mark sills]

1 hour ago, adjacent said:

Please tell me who in that bullpen you can play when it matters...

Andrew Morris  

[howeda7]

How are Garcia and Bonda even on the roster much less pitching with a lead in the 8th inning. They should both be released and Wallner demoted immediately. I don't even care who you call up. Anyone with a future is better than this. 

[knothole61]

5 hours ago, RpR said:

Why Wallner has not been sent down is a bit of a mystery, unless they are waiting for his batting average to drop below .100.

His K rate is now 37 percent.

Agreed...I'm not sure why he's still in the bigs. When I criticized him in the comments section of a Bobby Nightingale Startribune column, the author told me that Wallner is a valuable power hitter who can be devastating against right-handed pitchers and is an above average fielder with a strong arm. So, that's what those on the inside seem to think. As for me, I just don't see the Emperor's clothes! 

[knothole61]

3 hours ago, T.O. said:

TO, love it...that takes me back to my youth.

[bean5302]

2 hours ago, mark sills said:

Andrew Morris  

The guy with the 6.35 ERA and 1.68 WHIP? Yeah, definitely want him on the mound when it counts. In 5 appearances, he has one game with an xFIP below 4.67.

 

[h2oface]

10 hours ago, soyouresayingtheresachance said:

I am really liking what Connor is doing. Quality pitches and outings. 

Buck with 10 HRs and 14 RBI on the season. Doing great but would really love to see more clutch time hits with runners on base. 

Garcia and Banda gotta go. I thought maybe Banda was turning it around with his recent velocity increase, but I guess not. Absolutely terrible performance. 

Only one RBI of 14 that hasn’t come from his 7 solo and three 2 run homers. 10 of the 14 are himself. 
 

Hot, except with runners on base. He does have 25 runs scored. 

[Peter]

Twins looked great until 8th inning then 💩🤮8 runs given up any inning won’t get it done!!! Wallner needs to be DFA bullpen is a mess!!! We got winnable weeks ahead with Washington/cleveland/miami and Milwaukee-we are 2 back of wild card 4 back in division-just need to wins series and claw back into wildcard/division races starting today with win over Toronto 

[mark sills]

3 hours ago, bean5302 said:

The guy with the 6.35 ERA and 1.68 WHIP? Yeah, definitely want him on the mound when it counts. In 5 appearances, he has one game with an xFIP below 4.67.

 

first inning each game  0 era.

 

[Major League Ready]

11 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Hahaha.

If we're talking big picture, this season ceased to matter last trade deadline. 

Yet, Tom Pohlad tried to convince us that we would be a contender if we kept the remaining players and added Bell, Rogers, and Banda.  Starting a rebuild in this situation is what smart teams do.  The Cardinals traded off their best players and they were in better shape than us.  Milwaukee and Cleveland do it as a matter of practice.  What is absolute incompetence is reversing the process after what they did at the deadline.

What they should have done was to trade Pablo and eat $10M of his salary and used the savings to sign 2 good BP arms instead of Rogers and Banda.  The $11.75M in saving from Pablo, plus the $3.625 would have given them $14.625 to spend on 2 RPs.  We would have been a lot better and had a great asset or two to trade at the deadline if they were not in contention.   

My guess is that Tom Pohlad really wanted to cut salary but he had to find a way to convince fans this team was a contender despite a great deal of evidence to the contrary.  He came up with the brilliant plan of convincing fans they would be a contender if they just held onto Ryan and Lopez.  Never mind they were doing virtually nothing to replace 4 very good RPs and the offense was still very suspect.  Falvey didn’t want the baseball world to think he was this incompetent so he fought Pohlad and Pohlad predictably won.
 

[jmlease1]

Congrats to John Klein on his debut. Glad to finally see him up here to see what he can do and have another guy in the bullpen who can throw 95+.

I do believe that you can rebuild a bullpen on the cheap, using converted starters, guys you collect from the DFA line, etc...but you have to be willing to actually churn them, not keep sending them out there when they look rotten, or convince yourself that one or two decent outings in the middle of 4 bad ones is the true worth. I don't think the Twins really know how to churn the veterans with the young guys to figure out who can hack it with any kind of speed.

The rotation at least looks to be in good hands, but it's already gotten old to see the game be competitive for 5-6 innings and know that the bullpen is more likely than not to cough it up. Prielipp may have given up a couple of big flies but he also limited the damage and did well to get through 5 effective innings. New career high for pitches: 91. He's doing ok. Glad to see him healthy.

Lineup didn't do itself any favors; they've been at their best scoring runs when they're taking walks and they made it too easy on Cease. 

[JBK]

As long as Ryan goes 9IP, we've got a chance.

[karcherd]

1 hour ago, Major League Ready said:

Yet, Tom Pohlad tried to convince us that we would be a contender if we kept the remaining players and added Bell, Rogers, and Banda.  Starting a rebuild in this situation is what smart teams do.  The Cardinals traded off their best players and they were in better shape than us.  Milwaukee and Cleveland do it as a matter of practice.  What is absolute incompetence is reversing the process after what they did at the deadline.

What they should have done was to trade Pablo and eat $10M of his salary and used the savings to sign 2 good BP arms instead of Rogers and Banda.  The $11.75M in saving from Pablo, plus the $3.625 would have given them $14.625 to spend on 2 RPs.  We would have been a lot better and had a great asset or two to trade at the deadline if they were not in contention.   

My guess is that Tom Pohlad really wanted to cut salary but he had to find a way to convince fans this team was a contender despite a great deal of evidence to the contrary.  He came up with the brilliant plan of convincing fans they would be a contender if they just held onto Ryan and Lopez.  Never mind they were doing virtually nothing to replace 4 very good RPs and the offense was still very suspect.  Falvey didn’t want the baseball world to think he was this incompetent so he fought Pohlad and Pohlad predictably won.
 

It is easy to blame the owners.  But Falvey was not a good POBO, he signed Bell and said it was to be our first baseman.  We had no sustained success under Falvey.  You have to work within the resources given and he could do not do that.  Even this offseason he didn't need to sign Caratini, he had already identified a backup catcher.  He could have used those dollars for a relief pitcher back in November but he thought he could build a bullpen on the fly.  Other teams can field more competitive teams with the same payroll as the Twins but Falvey was unable to.

[David Maro]

Best crowd of the year got to see the worst team in the central up close and personal. 

[DuluthDuke]

Garcia was worth a flyer, I guess, but its okay to move on from struggling 39 year olds. If he wants to stick around like Carlos Carrasco in AAA for the Braves, fine. Call up Bowman from AAA, he has been the most effective Saints pitcher even at age 34.

If we're going to ditch Banda - which I don't think we should, yet - might I suggest adding Aaron Rozek. Organization guy, Minnesota guy, left handed, breathing and has been effective between AA and AAA this year at age 30.

[Major League Ready]

13 minutes ago, karcherd said:

It is easy to blame the owners.  But Falvey was not a good POBO, he signed Bell and said it was to be our first baseman.  We had no sustained success under Falvey.  You have to work within the resources given and he could do not do that.  Even this offseason he didn't need to sign Caratini, he had already identified a backup catcher.  He could have used those dollars for a relief pitcher back in November but he thought he could build a bullpen on the fly.  Other teams can field more competitive teams with the same payroll as the Twins but Falvey was unable to.

I agree it's easy to blame ownership.  Prior to this year, I had often said the criticism of the Pohlad's was a bit overblown because they spent in line with revenue and let the baseball people run the team.  In the last three years under Joe and now Tom, they have dropped the payroll every year. 

Doing a 180 in the middle of a rebuild which is utter incompetence, especially when you continue to cut payroll.  That's on Tom Pohlad.  The majority of posters here looked at this plan and knew the result would be exactly what we are seeing.  Tom Pohlad put an even less talented roster than the one that lost 92 games last year, while cutting payroll and told us this team would contend.  Yes, I am blaming Tom Pohlad. and I have never put the majority of blame on the Pohlads.

[jorgenswest]

fungible

adjective

    FINANCE & ECONOMICS

easy to exchange or trade for something else of the same type and value

[terrydactyls]

13 hours ago, RpR said:

Why Wallner has not been sent down is a bit of a mystery, unless they are waiting for his batting average to drop below .100.

His K rate is now 37 percent.

Please refer to Manuel Margot - 2025 as the latest example of hanging on to incompetence until the season ends.

[karcherd]

8 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

I agree it's easy to blame ownership.  Prior to this year, I had often said the criticism of the Pohlad's was a bit overblown because they spent in line with revenue and let the baseball people run the team.  In the last three years under Joe and now Tom, they have dropped the payroll every year. 

Doing a 180 in the middle of a rebuild which is utter incompetence, especially when you continue to cut payroll.  That's on Tom Pohlad.  The majority of posters here looked at this plan and knew the result would be exactly what we are seeing.  Tom Pohlad put an even less talented roster than the one that lost 92 games last year, while cutting payroll and told us this team would contend.  Yes, I am blaming Tom Pohlad. and I have never put the majority of blame on the Pohlads.

We don't know who is to blame for not following thru on the rebuild or if that was truly the plan.  Josh Bell was signed at the same time it was announced that Tom was taking over as leader of the Twins.  I am not sure if he had input at that time.  But that signing does not indicate a full blown on rebuild.  Falvey made no moves in the first two months of the offseason to indicate any plan he might have had.  And the turmoil at the top is not an excuse. executives deal with that in every industry and they still make decisions for the best of the organization.  Falvey sat on his hands.

[terrydactyls]

3 hours ago, Peter said:

Twins looked great until 8th inning then 💩🤮8 runs given up any inning won’t get it done!!! Wallner needs to be DFA bullpen is a mess!!! We got winnable weeks ahead with Washington/cleveland/miami and Milwaukee-we are 2 back of wild card 4 back in division-just need to wins series and claw back into wildcard/division races starting today with win over Toronto 

May I suggest using punctuation in order to clarify your statements?

[terrydactyls]

1 hour ago, jmlease1 said:

I do believe that you can rebuild a bullpen on the cheap, using converted starters, guys you collect from the DFA line, etc...but you have to be willing to actually churn them, not keep sending them out there when they look rotten, or convince yourself that one or two decent outings in the middle of 4 bad ones is the true worth. I don't think the Twins really know how to churn the veterans with the young guys to figure out who can hack it with any kind of speed.

"actually churn them"?  Old man asking - what does that mean?

[karcherd]

The Blue Jays just released Jimenez after 12 games, they didn't hang onto him for a full season or even a half season and hope that he has something left in the tank.  This is what the Twins need to be doing, be more decisive.