The Chorus of "Sell The Team" Chants at Target Field Are a Dose of Reality for Despised Ownership

[Irishman]

BOYCOTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TopGunn#22]

Owning a sports team is different from owning a real estate or banking business.  First, you're guaranteed a certain level of income through TV and other media sources before you even sell a ticket.  Then, when the "wealthy" clubs like the Dodgers, Yankees, Phillies and Red Sox spend like drunken sailors, you get a little more money when they have to pay a luxury tax.

This is why the Pohlad's don't care about the fans.  They are reluctant to spend the little bit extra to put them over the top as a division winner or Wild Card playoff team that could actually make a deeper run.  When payrolls were more manageable and the team had a GREAT GM (Andy McPhail) they could get by with adding Don Baylor at the deadline (who statistically added very little to the World Series victory) or making two very impactful off season moves (Jack Morris & Chili Davis) in 1991.  Can anyone name the big trade deadline move the Twins made in 1991?  (they didn't make any deals for a major league player).

It will be interesting to see if season ticket sales FALL for next season.  I can almost guarantee that there will be fewer "walk up" sales in 2026.  This augers poorly for any profit from ticket sales.  There is widespread acrimony throughout the fanbase that a SALE by the Pohlad's did not happen.  What the heck was Manfred talking about just before the All Star game??

I will repeat what I've said a couple times.  The Twins are from from done making trades.  They have a surplus of SP and LH hitting corner OF to initiate trades for positional areas that are lacking (C, 1B, DH).  They have the financial flexibility to actually add a veteran Closer.  

Do I have faith in Falvey and Zoll to make those moves.  No.  I'll believe it when I see it.  But we on TD will have a lot of fun speculating.  The Vikings and T-Wolves will be dominating the Minnesota sports headlines.  The Gopher football team is thought to be a darkhorse in the Big Ten.  If the Wild don't screw up and fail to sign Kaprizov to an extension, they will further push the Twins to the periphery. 

There is already disgust for the franchise.  Apathy is either not far behind or actually already here.  How long will it take for the Pohlad family to get the message??   

[Major League Ready]

59 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I suggest never listening to owners, GMs, or coaches. Just watch the game or not. Like, it annoys almost all of you to listen, why keep listening? Life is too short .

Great post Mike.  I refuse to let any of this crap negate my enjoyment of the game.  I am looking forward to seeing a new group of players because the old ones were not cutting it.  Keaschall is the first of several.  Rodriguez, Jenkins, Culpepper, and Gonzalez will be the next wave and I find myself rooting for Fedko so I hope to see him.  Of course, there are a bunch of pitching prospects.  Some will fail but at least the days of slow position players that strike out a lot and can't defend are coming to an end.  

[AceWrigley]

Ok, the owners suck. So what. Don't listen to them. Who the heck loves baseball because of the owners? No one. I'm going to remain a Twins fan because I love baseball and I've been a Twins fan since the early 60's not because of the owners, but because of the players and the game. We don't keep statistics (for the most part) on which owner has the best winning record or hits the most home runs, its the players.

And I hope the Twins' players feel the same way and play for themselves, the team, not unlike the movie Major league. They are the ones who work to perfect their craft and compete on the field. Now all we need is for one of our starting pitchers having a good game to pull a Jim Palmer and tell Rocco to turn right around and get your sorry behind back in the dugout, I've got this next inning. Go Twins!

[mikelink45]

Time for a deep breathe.  Good article, but it should be the last.  Look at the team, the prospects, ignore, don't listen, watch, attend - whatever you feel.  But all of us have had enough time to swallow hard and move on with our lives. 

The Pohlad hate translating to the team is sad - thank you Buxton for wanting to be here.  Congratulations to our hometown boy Varland for winning last night.  

I do feel sorry for the vendors.  The Pohlads can absorb a lot more than their current stated losses, but can the vendors who expected Target field to be a place of joy and celebration?

[TheLeviathan]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

I suggest never listening to owners, GMs, or coaches. Just watch the game or not. Like, it annoys almost all of you to listen, why keep listening? Life is too short .

I agree...however, ownership this incompetent does impact that experience.  Right-sizing the payroll being evidence #1.

[AKTwinsFan]

Well if Joe uses the money from the minority stakes to pay off the debt then reinvest in the payroll and success of the team things might turn around. The final side of it is finding a NEW manager. Fans are tired of the mindless lineup changes and pitching management. 

If we go the Brewers way and poach a seasoned manager who knows how to take a non power team and use their other strengths to win, fans will rejoice.

If you win, they will come!

[GNess]

The owner says we want to win. Everyone wants to win - what are you willing to do to maximize your chances?

Since 1995 (30 seasons seemed like a nice round number) here is a quick breakdown of World Series appearances:

Yes, it is only one metric but if you want to win...

Three of More Appearances:

Yankees, Guardians, Redsox, Rangers, Astros, Braves, Giants, Cardinals, Phillies, Dodgers

One-Two Appearances:

Angels, Chisox, Tigers, Rays, Royals, Marlins, Padres, Mets, D-Backs, Rockies, Cubs, Nats

No Appearances:

A's, Bluejays, Mariners, Brewers, Orioles, Pirates, Reds, TWINS

UGH

 

 

[Mike Sixel]

9 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

I agree...however, ownership this incompetent does impact that experience.  Right-sizing the payroll being evidence #1.

Sure. 100 percent. My point was to stop reading press, stop watching interviews. People here complain non stop about the words, stop listening. There are other ways to spend your time. 

[Nick Nelson]

1 hour ago, TheLeviathan said:

So yeah....plot twist to this author's argument in July: Ownership does matter.  It can be overcome by some other organizations and is sometimes overstated....but sometimes a family so terrible and incompetent owns your organization and it is THE issue.

You keep bringing up this quote as some kind of dunk but it was accurate then, and accurate now. Ownership impact is exaggerated and overblown by fans. Teams win in spite of bad owners and now that's what the Twins are going to need to do. Which is why I wrote this: "I'm sick of ownership being a central topic of conversation. I want to talk about the controllable things that really matter to winning baseball games: development, decision-making, performance. If this shakeup leads to ownership just getting out of the way and fading into the background again, that would be wonderful."

[ashbury]

33 minutes ago, mikelink45 said:

Congratulations to our hometown boy Varland for winning last night.  

His team won.  Looking at the box score on b-r.com this morning, Louis came into the game in the 8th inning, down by a run and with a man on base.  He gave up a first-pitch homer to the first batter and then got the next guy out.  But in the bottom of the 8th the Jays scored 4 to take the lead, and then the closer did his job.  It seems the official scorer gave the W to the closer.  I know the OS has that latitude in some instances, but didn't know it could happen like this.

I'll check with someone to see whether there's anything deeper here.

[terrydactyls]

Here are some bright spots ahead......

Gophers first football game ‐ August 28

Vikings first game - September 8

Gophers first hockey game - October 3

Gophers first basketball game - October 16 

Timberwolves first game - October 22

[mikelink45]

6 minutes ago, ashbury said:

His team won.  Looking at the box score on b-r.com this morning, Louis came into the game in the 8th inning, down by a run and with a man on base.  He gave up a first-pitch homer to the first batter and then got the next guy out.  But in the bottom of the 8th the Jays scored 4 to take the lead, and then the closer did his job.  It seems the official scorer gave the W to the closer.  I know the OS has that latitude in some instances, but didn't know it could happen like this.

I'll check with someone to see whether there's anything deeper here.

He has already accumulated 0.2 WAR with Jays (1.3 with the Twins).  He has pitched 7 games for them.  2.57 era, 1.000 WHIP.  Looks good to me.  

[Original_JB]

What are the odds that the 'local' limited owner group ends up being a consortium led by Securian Financial?

[chinmusic]

51 minutes ago, mikelink45 said:

Congratulations to our hometown boy Varland for winning last night.  

In the interest of accuracy, he did not. Pitched a third of an inning and gave up a home run to former Jay Marcus Semien. Jays scored 4 in the bottom of the eighth, and Jeff Hoffman won the game. (or maybe you just meant that Varland's  team won the game)

[NYCTK]

1 hour ago, BSLinPA said:

I posted this on Oct 10, 2024:

What have the Polad$ done to instill any confidence in what is about to play out??  Expect another circus.  Paging Donald Watkins.....lol.  Stir in the sway of woke commish Rob Manfred and this could easily become a mess. And nothing good happens if this lingers; thru the off-season or worse yet into the 2025 baseball season (or longer??).  This provides another perspective on Thad Levine's departure (he may have jumped off a sinking ship??).  I sincerely hope my gut is wrong on this.

Hopefully, given that the Pohlad$ have gone public with this, I'm way off base and there is a viable buyer/owners group lined up.  Time will tell.

JD-Twins, Mike Sixel and NYCTK gave it thumbs down........what part of this posting was "wrong" guys????

I probably thumbs downed you for misspelling the pohlads name and, more likely, for unironically using woke as a pejorative. 

Smart people are woke. Get over it. 

[USAFChief]

52 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Sure. 100 percent. My point was to stop reading press, stop watching interviews. People here complain non stop about the words, stop listening. There are other ways to spend your time. 

And yet here you are, commenting in a piece headlined "despised ownership."

[ashbury]

45 minutes ago, mikelink45 said:

He has already accumulated 0.2 WAR with Jays (1.3 with the Twins).  He has pitched 7 games for them.  2.57 era, 1.000 WHIP.  Looks good to me.  

You were talking about last night's game and I responded with what I thought to be an interesting Baseball Quirk (and I don't mean Jamie).  Now it seems you wanted to talk about something broader; I can leave that alone.

[D.C Twins]

4 hours ago, Jack207 said:

I live in Pennsylvania and have been a Twins fan since the 60's. My son now lives in St Paul so I travel to Minnesota every September to visit my son and attend 2 or 3 Twins. There is NO chance that I will be attending a Twins game this year or ever with the existing ownership. I am surprised more people don't do the same.

This....people need to vote with their feet. The Pohlads will not care about booing but they will care eventually about the deafening silence of an empty stadium. 

I'm not in Minnesota... but to the Twins fans that are.... if you are tempted to go to the Twins game next summer... go to the lake instead.... you will be happy with your choice. 

[D.C Twins]

3 hours ago, DJL44 said:

I really hope every remaining game doesn’t turn into a protest for upset fans. People need to relax, literally. It’s a baseball game. It’s not important. It’s a chance to unwind and enjoy summer.

I have been attending more Saints games lately, but mostly because the tickets are cheaper and access is easier from my house. I would attend a Twins game again even if the Pohlads continue to own the team because it’s not about them. It’s about me enjoying watching baseball at the highest level.

I really don’t want other people telling me I can’t enjoy baseball anymore. If you are disgruntled please stay home. If you want to protest and change the world, pick something that actually matters. There are hundreds of other things that are broken in this world that could use that energy.

We are not telling you not to enjoy baseball anymore... we are telling you that if you care to send a message to the Pohlads.. the only way is by hurting their revenue via empty stadiums and crappy viewing ratings ...

You appear to not be very concerned about the Pohlads and their decisions....which means you should absolutely keep going to games!

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, terrydactyls said:

Here are some bright spots ahead......

Gophers first football game ‐ August 28

Vikings first game - September 8

Gophers first hockey game - October 3

Gophers first basketball game - October 16 

Timberwolves first game - October 22

The Lynx are in the middle of a championship season RIGHT NOW

[TheLeviathan]

1 hour ago, Nick Nelson said:

You keep bringing up this quote as some kind of dunk but it was accurate then, and accurate now. Ownership impact is exaggerated and overblown by fans. Teams win in spite of bad owners and now that's what the Twins are going to need to do. Which is why I wrote this: "I'm sick of ownership being a central topic of conversation. I want to talk about the controllable things that really matter to winning baseball games: development, decision-making, performance. If this shakeup leads to ownership just getting out of the way and fading into the background again, that would be wonderful."

You're glossing over the effects of THIS ownership group.  That's why you're wrong then and it's quite painfully wrong now to defend that stance. I don't need speculation - we know ownership DID impact the trade deadline.  We know they forced the Correa move.  It's likely the front office pivoted this hard knowing they had a reduced payroll coming.  I guess we can at least say they got a head's up this time rather than the rug being pulled in 2023.

But take stock in the many, many ways this ownership group impacts the team: It's having an impact on fan loyalty (I mean....99% of us are pissed and chanting "Sell the team") which impacts revenues (because peole tune out - looking at you attendance numbers) which impacts payrolls.  There is a direct line of cause and effect from this organization's ownership and fan sentiment to the product on the field.

It's having an impact on the front office - where they are retaining the same people in leadership.  You know....the ones charged with development, decision-making, and performance.  You keep trying to twist this as a new beginning, but none of the chairs are new on the Titanic Nick.  They didn't even bother to tell us the new partners.  Everyone is staying put.  And that has been this ownership group's M.O. for as long as I've been a fan.  I'm pretty sure they were using MS-DOS in the executive wing until about 5 years ago.  

You're not wrong in the sense that a do-nothing ownership group who employs good executives and has an eye for such talent can be overcome even if they are cheapskates.  But that isn't the Pohlads.  They clearly have a bad eye for executive choices.  They have a bad business sense in how they sell their product and get it to their fans.  They have a bad busines acumen that directly impacts the operations of the team.  All of these things do impact the on-field product.  The Pittsburgh Pirates are a monument to this.  We're becoming the AL equivalent if not them already.

I'm sorry...but to sit here and call that quote accurate is to talk out of both sides of your mouth.  You were arguing AGAINST the idea that the narrative centered on the Pohlads and needed to change.  My argument was - and is (and clearly you seem to agree now without the requisite "my bad" for your attacks last time) - the Pohlads are THE driving force behind the narrative.  It may be true in other markets that ownership can be overcome.  We have 34 years of evidence to the contrary here.  

The Pohlads are the problem here.  Them staying, perpetuates all the negatives they brought with them.  So now I am going to dunk on how wrong you were Nick - the message on Thursday didn't deviate.  It doubled down.  And that message is the central problem with the Twins in 2025.

I'd sure be a lot more "excited" to use your term....if that message ACTUALLY changed.  And that starts up top.  Nothing else matters until it does.  Not for the Minnesota Twins.

[TheLeviathan]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Sure. 100 percent. My point was to stop reading press, stop watching interviews. People here complain non stop about the words, stop listening. There are other ways to spend your time. 

Why is it that some of you are acting like fans tuning out won't impact the on-field product?

I mean, how many more decades of failure by Pohlad oversight do we need to see in the on-field product to realize that the problems start there?

This is the Glen Taylor thing all over again.  Yeah, you can point at the David Kahn's of hte world...but who hired them?  Who sets the practices in the executive wing?  Who oversees the decision makers?  The problems we've seen with this team all point back to one place.  Me plugging my ears and singing "la-la-la" does absolutely nothing.  Chanting "sell the team" might not either...but at least it's cathartic.

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

Why is it that some of you are acting like fans tuning out won't impact the on-field product?

I mean, how many more decades of failure by Pohlad oversight do we need to see in the on-field product to realize that the problems start there?

This is the Glen Taylor thing all over again.  Yeah, you can point at the David Kahn's of hte world...but who hired them?  Who sets the practices in the executive wing?  Who oversees the decision makers?  The problems we've seen with this team all point back to one place.  Me plugging my ears and singing "la-la-la" does absolutely nothing.  Chanting "sell the team" might not either...but at least it's cathartic.

I didn't say any of that? 

[TheLeviathan]

1 minute ago, Mike Sixel said:

I didn't say any of that? 

I'm not sure what your point is to be fair.  It's somehow both "stop" and "enjoy" while arguing that somehow what people are mad about doesn't directly impact their joy?

Ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away.

[Blyleven2011]

2 hours ago, GNess said:

The owner says we want to win. Everyone wants to win - what are you willing to do to maximize your chances?

Since 1995 (30 seasons seemed like a nice round number) here is a quick breakdown of World Series appearances:

Yes, it is only one metric but if you want to win...

Three of More Appearances:

Yankees, Guardians, Redsox, Rangers, Astros, Braves, Giants, Cardinals, Phillies, Dodgers

One-Two Appearances:

Angels, Chisox, Tigers, Rays, Royals, Marlins, Padres, Mets, D-Backs, Rockies, Cubs, Nats

No Appearances:

A's, Bluejays, Mariners, Brewers, Orioles, Pirates, Reds, TWINS

UGH

 

 

See here's the thing , they're going the long way around the barn and continue the BS , Ownership say they want to win to please the fans   , what they have never ever have said is we want to give the fans what they want , a championship world series  ...

I've said this many times that the ownership goes to falvey with a payroll in the spring , says to falvey put together a team that will be consistent enough to draw fans , never mentioning to falvey of pursuing a contender  , now it's on falvey to take that payroll and be crafty on spending it on the quality the team needs  ...

Has falvey been crafty , the team has been to lefthanded for some years and they still remain to lefthanded , no change ...

The twins have been trying to fill the first base position for years , 1 year contracts and player moves on , still nothing permanent  , they like players to play different positions but are reluctant to use in house candidates like larnach and wallner ( they wont even give it a try at firstbase ) ...

They have been trying to find a righthanded batter for left field  , it's still open for someone to grab it  ...

You don't have to have the highest payroll in the Division to win , you have to be crafty at constructing a team to be a contender  , get quality players and spend wisely not foolishly  ...

We have solid pitching going into the season but didn't really address the main problem  ( hitting ) , and what happens  , they trade off the solid pitching at deadline and have not replaced anything worthwhile for the lineup  , why do they continue to suck hind tit  , they are competitive enough to draw the fans to the game but that is as far as this ownership  , front office  and Rocco & Co can take us ...

You want a jubilant fan base , then come out and say we want to win a world series and then back it up with adding personal that can find and evaluate the players needed for a championship  ...

I don't listen to pre or post game baldelli  or interviews with FO  , I hear all I need to know from this site and it's members  , do i believe it , not all of it ...

 

[ziggy]

Quote

“Our fans are passionate. Our fans want to win. We have that in common — we want to win, too," Pohlad told the Star Tribune when asked about the vocal criticism direct toward his billionaire bunch. "I’d rather have passionate fans than fans who are disengaged." 

As the saying goes, be careful of what you wish for, you just might get it.

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, D.C Twins said:

We are not telling you not to enjoy baseball anymore... we are telling you that if you care to send a message to the Pohlads.. the only way is by hurting their revenue via empty stadiums and crappy viewing ratings ...

You appear to not be very concerned about the Pohlads and their decisions....which means you should absolutely keep going to games!

Empty stadiums are fine with me. That leads to better ticket bargains. I just don’t want to be there if people are spending the game yelling at the owners.

[ashbury]

3 hours ago, ashbury said:

I know the OS has that latitude in some instances, but didn't know it could happen like this.

I'll check with someone to see whether there's anything deeper here.

I did check, and it's covered in the Official Baseball Rules, Rule 9.17(c)

Quote

The Official Scorer shall not credit as the winning pitcher a
relief pitcher who is ineffective in a brief appearance, when at
least one succeeding relief pitcher pitches effectively in helping
his team maintain its lead.  In such a case, the Official Scorer
shall credit as the winning pitcher the succeeding relief pitcher
who was most effective, in the judgment of the Official Scorer.

Rule 9.17(c) Comment: The Official Scorer generally should,
but is not required to, consider the appearance of a relief pitcher
to be ineffective and brief if such relief pitcher pitches less than
one inning and allows two or more earned runs to score (even
if such runs are charged to a previous pitcher). Rule 9.17(b)
Comment provides guidance on choosing the winning pitcher
from among several succeeding relief pitchers.

Varland's 1/3 inning facing 2 batters pretty much fits this description, so the Official Scorer gets no choice but to award the Win to the guy, Hoffman, who otherwise would have gotten the Save.  That's a different kind of Vultured win than we usually think of, since Hoffman totally did his job.

Sorry for the tangent to the actual purpose of this thread.  Hopefully someone besides just me finds it interesting.

[ashbury]

54 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Empty stadiums are fine with me.

That goes too far in my book.  I want my sport to be healthy in all aspects.