Guardians 5, Twins 4: Twins Waste Chances, Create Too Few, Cleveland Finds Chances Everywhere

[Danchat]

They optioned Alcala to get Irvin up? I must have missed that... baffling move. This team doesn't deserve to go to the playoffs. 

[Maybe Next Year]

I can’t say for certain but I believe the Twins record in extra inning games this year is 4-14. Somebody please check me on this. In any event the Twins record in x inning games is pathetic and that falls on the manager. 

[knothole61]

Although resorting to second guessing may be seen as "the last refuge of a scoundrel" I do believe that it has seldom been more justified than in connection with tonight's 10th inning meltdown. That kid never should have been sent out there in that crucial situation...never! Bring in Sands or, god forbid, allow Duran to throw more than 11 pitches--do so, and the Twins would likely have notched a very important win tonight.

In the books we lost by one run, but against the dynamic duo that Rocco saw fit to employ in the 10th there's no telling how many runs the Guardians could have managed if so needed. In my admittedly humble opinion that decision was just plain wrong.

Rocco has led a successful baseball life, and the numbers will tell you that he is an above average manager. Still, I'm moved, once again, to say that at times he demonstrates a genuine lack of something that is essential for a manager, something that can't easily be quantified but that must be put to use: namely, common sense.

 

   

[knothole61]

40 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

That was a final two game collapse. This has been going on for a month. Think the twins led the Red Sox by 5 games on August 18 of this year 

And an in-game injury to Jim Kaat that likely cost us the pennant...1967, ouch!

Boston 92-70; Twins and Tigers 91-71; White Sox 89-73--and of course it was winner take all in the A.L. back then!

[IndianaTwin]

18 minutes ago, Maybe Next Year said:

I can’t say for certain but I believe the Twins record in extra inning games this year is 4-14. Somebody please check me on this. In any event the Twins record in x inning games is pathetic and that falls on the manager. 

This makes them 4-7 in extra innings and 22-19 in one-run games. They have 37 comeback wins and this was their 32nd blown lead. 

[Nashvilletwin]

Big changes on the way for next year - an epic collapse like this, regardless if they make the playoffs at this point, merits action.  It has to happen and the Nephew will need to have the fortitude to see it done. Buckle you seatbelts. 

Btw, I was going to comment on the decision to let Santana bat in the 10th (0-4 at that point with RISPs and looking lost in each at bat), but it doesn’t really matter - the Guardians would have scored as many as the needed anyway.

[S Bart]

Good Point!

[shane starr]

Had the unfortunate pleasure of listening to the game while running the kids around. Cleveland broadcast. Their play-by-play guy quoted Francona from a number of years ago. Saying something along the lines of, "when your bullpen is failing, every decision is the wrong one." 

I've felt that way for weeks now. Any decision Rocco makes seems to backfire.

And....win tomorrow for a split!!

[D.C Twins]

Nothing screams contender like Henriquez and Tonkin in high leverage situations. 

We definitely got the bullpen we paid for though....

[S Bart]

I'm in Boston on vacation and will see the games on Friday and Saturday. I just hope that I will see an uptick in hitting and pitching. Fenway has a certain ambient that will hopefully bring them luck.

Nobody has commented on this topic. KC seems to be faltering this month also (lost last 4 games). They are in the 2nd wild card spot and only 1 1/2 games ahead of the Twins (3rd playoff spot) and 2 ahead of Detroit.

Seattle is 2 1/2 behind the Twins and Boston is 4 games back after Wednesday's results.

 

[IndyTwinsFan]

1 hour ago, Blyleven2011 said:

No , twins collapsed against Boston  back in the 60's ...

1967 to be precise, and it happened on the closing weekend of the season to the Red Sox.

[David HK]

Yes, the hitters SUCKED, especially Santana.  

But still, we had a chance to win.  That part is all on Rocco, and his bone-headed gassing of both Duran and Jax the night before.   4 run lead, bottom of the order in the 8th- THAT'S when you throw guys like Ronny and Tonkin.  NOT asking your closer for 2 innings, getting him in hot water, then having to bail him out with the guy who already admitted to the press the day before that the BP was "running on fumes."   Cripe, we may not have needed Duran at all last night.  He made it through that 9th, thank God, but on a night when we might have needed an extra inning out of him, no chance.

If we had had Jax for the 10th tonight, game over, crappy hitting nothwithstanding.  Thanks, Rocco.  I am so sick of this guy.

[mikelink45]

3 hours ago, S Bart said:

So, let's look at the owners. The Pohlads have money. They are #75 on the Forbes list with a worth of 3.8 billion dollars. Forbes lists the Twins team value as 895 million dollars. Old Man Pohlad bought the Twins from Calvin in 1984 for 44 million. Jim Pohlad (named owner) is tied for 8th on the chart link below.

MLB richest team owners in the U.S. 2024 | Statista

Not willing to spend money last month to improve pitching, announcing earlier this year that you (the owner) needed to save money by not willing to better the team, and not attempting to find out a solution to the broadcast issue earlier this summer which decreased you fan base....well it equals a non-caring owner.

Dear. Mr. Pohlad,

Either step up to the plate and put together a decent team via spending money or SELL THE TEAM, PLEASE>>>PRETTY PLEASE. When you invest in the team, you fill the seats, and build/maintain a caring fan base, and make money.

THANK YOU, 

A Twins fan since 1965

I want to add that I date back 1961 and agree. 

 

[howeda7]

Season over. 

[Mark G]

I still believe we are going to make it in (by the hair of our chinny chin chin), but if this BP can't do the job in September, because they are running on fumes, what is going to be left in the tank come October?  If we have so little faith in Thielbar and Blewett that we think Tonkin is the only option in an extra inning tie game..........you get my point.  Lopez, Jax, and maybe SWR, Jax, Duran, Sands, and maybe Varland?  Will that be enough to go anywhere deep?  Anyone past them is a total crapshoot based on the recent past.  Time will tell, I guess.  Stay tuned to this broadcast for further updates.  

[Aerodeliria]

I don't fault Rocco at all for using Duran and Jax on the previous day. The Twins were desperate for a W against Cleveland, but what he doesn't seem to get is that this is already the playoffs. There is no more 'we'll get them tomorrow' scenario, so if he has to say, 'we need you to buckle up' and give us one more inning, so be it.

[Karbo]

If they fail to make the playoffs (as it looks like they will) its definitely time to shake up the coaching staff. Maybe hire a manager that can think on his own and not a yes man like Rocco. I think Falvey has done a pretty good job with the payroll he has to work with. Can't very well fire the owners though IMO that's where the true problem is.

[William K Johnson]

I guess we no longer need to discuss bringing Santana back.    Congratulations on a gold glove, thanks for the effort, but don't let the door hit you in the a** on the way out.

[CRF]

We should have won all 3 games, but instead we lost 2 of 3. More than likely, we somehow lose today too.  It looks like the Tigers will be in front of us by this weekend. This team can find so many ways to lose games, that it's just amazing. This is an organization failure from the top to the bottom, and it's not going to change anytime soon. Sickening. 

[Doctor Wu]

On the bright side, a very good outing from Ober, some clutch hitting by Correa, a great catch by Margot, but yet another frustrating loss. Sigh. Sure, there were lack of clutch hits, and giving up those timely hits to the other team, but at this point I also have to wonder if we are also getting out-managed by the other teams.

[Mark G]

23 minutes ago, Doctor Wu said:

On the bright side, a very good outing from Ober, some clutch hitting by Correa, a great catch by Margot, but yet another frustrating loss. Sigh. Sure, there were lack of clutch hits, and giving up those timely hits to the other team, but at this point I also have to wonder if we are also getting out-managed by the other teams.

I don't wonder.  😉

[Mark G]

Just now, Mark G said:

I don't wonder.  😉

I'm sure.  

[Riverbrian]

7 hours ago, Peter said:

I don’t want to hear any fire Rocco 💩or sell the team💩 if owners didn’t care they would be like the white sox and wouldn’t have signed corea/royce/pablo/buxton!!! They do care!!! Just a crushing loss-I’m at a loss of words and just livid about this and twins possibly missing out on playoffs!!! If any of you say they don’t belong/deserve or don’t want them in there get lost!!! You’re not real fans!!! It’s going to be fight to the finish and go down to final game!!! Detroit can’t keep this up as they are going to go into funk. We the twins need our support more then ever especially now!!! Go Twins!!!!

I noticed that you got three thumbs down for this. It's a little strong but I wanted to give you a thumbs up for better balance and I appreciate the "this thing ain't over" attitude. 

Anybody who doesn't want the team in the playoffs isn't worth my time.

Today is a new day. Everything to this point happened yesterday.  

[Riverbrian]

6 hours ago, shane starr said:

Had the unfortunate pleasure of listening to the game while running the kids around. Cleveland broadcast. Their play-by-play guy quoted Francona from a number of years ago. Saying something along the lines of, "when your bullpen is failing, every decision is the wrong one." 

I've felt that way for weeks now. Any decision Rocco makes seems to backfire.

And....win tomorrow for a split!!

First post home run!!!

[Peter]

12 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

I noticed that you got three thumbs down for this. It's a little strong but I wanted to give you a thumbs up for better balance and I appreciate the "this thing ain't over" attitude. 

Anybody who doesn't want the team in the playoffs isn't worth my time.

Today is a new day. Everything to this point happened yesterday.  

Appreciate that!!! Agreed if people don’t want twins in playoffs dont waste my time either-regardless twins will be better team no matter what happens especially with our rookies-this is giving them valuable experience and twins will only get better!!!  Future of our twins is looking bright as our farm system is loaded!!!  It if but when another World Series championship happens!!! Let’s go Twins!!! 

[Riverbrian]

5 minutes ago, Peter said:

Appreciate that!!! Agreed if people don’t want twins in playoffs dont waste my time either-regardless twins will be better team no matter what happens especially with our rookies-this is giving them valuable experience and twins will only get better!!!  Future of our twins is looking bright as our farm system is loaded!!!  It if but when another World Series championship happens!!! Let’s go Twins!!! 

Go get em. 

Put a helmet on. This room will throw stuff. 😉

[TwinsDr2021]

23 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

I noticed that you got three thumbs down for this. It's a little strong but I wanted to give you a thumbs up for better balance and I appreciate the "this thing ain't over" attitude. 

Anybody who doesn't want the team in the playoffs isn't worth my time.

Today is a new day. Everything to this point happened yesterday.  

I agree, I want the Twins to make the playoffs, I would like it to be because of them and not because teams crapped themselves but I will take that as well.

For transparency I am not a fan of Rocco, haven't been since 2019 when I decided he wasn't a good manager (IMO he has gotten better but still isn't good), but since he has been manager there has been a negative aura around this team (from the Fans) that isn't good. Similar to the end of the Zimmer ERA for the Vikings where the fans just came to expect negative things of the team and while there were bright spots and good records the fans always believed bad things would happen and eventually they did (because that how all but one teams season ends). The Vikings made a change and it rejuvenated the fans and the fans even were OK with less results in the terms of wins because they believed the future was brighter. Is it? maybe, maybe not, (lets not talk abut their GM hire) but the hope is back for the time being.

IMO the Twins need to do the same after this season, bring hope, good will and dare I say Joy back to the team with somebody new leading the team (even if that person has the same plan) it would do wonders for the fans psyche. ( of course I have the right to retract this if they make the world series)

[karcherd]

Yes it was disappointing when the owners cut payroll at the beginning of the year.  Do we know for a fact that they denied any requests at the trade deadline for additional payroll dollars.  They deserve their share of blame but why does Falvey keep getting a pass.  The pattern in the offseason and at the deadline is to wait out the market and try to outsmart the rest of the league.  Then when nothing is left, they grab someone like Trevor Richards.  They do not make smart decisions with the dollars they have, signing all of Farmer, Margot and Santana, was that really the best use of limited resources.  And last year with the record payroll they gave $11m to Gallo when no one else was offering him anywhere near that.  

The fault of the ownership is in continually trusting the front office dynamic duo to put together a team and hiring a major league manager.

[NYCTK]

26 minutes ago, Peter said:

Appreciate that!!! Agreed if people don’t want twins in playoffs dont waste my time either-regardless twins will be better team no matter what happens especially with our rookies-this is giving them valuable experience and twins will only get better!!!  Future of our twins is looking bright as our farm system is loaded!!!  It if but when another World Series championship happens!!! Let’s go Twins!!! 

It's just a simple fact that the Twins aren't good enough to deserve to be in the playoffs. They are 7.5 games out of their division. They are 4 games behind the first Wild Card, and there should still only be one. They are 3 games below 500 against teams that aren't the White Sox. 

What benefit is it to us for the Twins to make the playoffs? What benefit is it to the players? What benefit is it to the sport? 

No baseball fan outside of Twins fans wants to watch this team, and no one can blame them. They aren't a contender. Limping in to the playoffs for the sole benefit of generating some revenue for the Pohlads? How nice for them. 

And if it does happen, how are Twins fans going to feel when they get further embarrassed in Baltimore? 

[Riverbrian]

4 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

I agree, I want the Twins to make the playoffs, I would like it to be because of them and not because teams crapped themselves but I will take that as well.

For transparency I am not a fan of Rocco, haven't been since 2019 when I decided he wasn't a good manager (IMO he has gotten better but still isn't good), but since he has been manager there has been a negative aura around this team (from the Fans) that isn't good. Similar to the end of the Zimmer ERA for the Vikings where the fans just came to expect negative things of the team and while there were bright spots and good records the fans always believed bad things would happen and eventually they did (because that how all but one teams season ends). The Vikings made a chance and it rejuvenated the fans and the fans even were OK with less results in the terms of wins because they believed the future was brighter. Is it? maybe, maybe not, (lets not talk abut their GM hire) but the hope is back for the time being.

IMO the Twins need to do the same after this season, bring hope, good will and dare I say Joy back to the team with somebody new leading the team (even if that person has the same plan) it would do wonders for the fans psyche. ( of course I have the right to retract this if they make the world series)

I have been consistently vocal about some criticisms that I have. However... I don't believe that my criticisms should define the total of anyone or any system. There has to be more to the job than not letting lefties face lefties. No matter how right I think I am... and I do think I'm right. Yet, Here they are in playoff contention.  I have been critical of the off-season. I don't think they had a good off season... I don't think they had a good trade deadline. Yet here they are... giving me a September with games that matter.

I think we often lose sight of the fact that it's really hard to control your destiny when the other team is trying stop you, while bloops can become hits and rockets can be outs. Did we pitch bad or did they hit well? Who knows but one thing is for sure... if you are mechanic... I'm sure you've done a perfect job every time and never left a lug nut on the floor as the car drives away... but I am reasonably certain that you don't have other mechanics trying to knock the wrench out of your hand as you try to do your job. 

On every forum for every sports team around the country. There is a large contingent of posters who want the coach fired and many them want them fired for conflicting reasons. One wants Rocco fired because he pulled a pitcher.. the other wants him fired because he left the pitcher in too long. One wants Rocco fired because the team is collapsing down the stretch, another wants the front office fired because they didn't provide good enough players, one wants the owners to choke on their gluttony because they didn't provide enough money to get good players. They all want the same thing... heads on a pike. Yet... here they are playing meaningful games in September.