Pirates 4, Twins 0: Time For A Rowdy Player's-Only Meeting?

[rv78]

Knowing the Pirates would respond with a right handed pitcher, he went with Manuel Margot. The decision was rewarded with Margot popping out weekly to push his pinch hitting tally in 2024 to 0-for-17.

Having a Manager that bases his decisions on numbers really helps when he ignores the ones he needs to pay attention to.

[Blyleven2011]

11 minutes ago, strumdatjag said:

Make peace with Doug Mientkiewicz and bring him in to manage this team.   He can kick some butts.  

Best support for the team , I'm in and can't be any worse  ...

It really is time for a change in this philosophy of baseball  , can't keep trying to pull everything  , if you noticed the Yankees killed us by taking outside pitches the other way , our hitters ( with the exception of a few,  most don't do that , there not taught to do it ,  so it seems ) ....

[mikelink45]

I am not asking to get rid of Baldelli, maybe it is the analytics department that needs to go.   

I am really frustrated by this teams ability to slide into indifference.  I want the SB, the hit and run, the extra base.  I want some energy. 

Vasquez, Farmer, Margo have become a joke for me.  Collectively they are 62 for 333 - 186.  When I add up their BR WAR figures I get -1.4 and then Rocco has the gall to have one of them pinch hit!  My god, that is so beyond analyctics. 

[Whitey333]

Pretty pathetic performance.  We have now gone scoreless in 22 straight innings.  We have a lifeless team with only minimal leadership by the veterans.  We still have a manager that is obsessed with analytics and shows very little ability to manage a team and a game.  My God he still sends out Margot to pinch hit.  Sometimes in very key situations.  Does his analytic chart tell him that Margot is 0 for 17 pin h hitting this year?  Yet he keeps sending him out there to pinch hit for lefties.  He says Kiriloff can't hit lefties.  We'll right now he can't hit right handers either.  He's only had 8 at bats against lefties so hiw do you judge him or Larnach if they are pinch hit by someone that is 0 for 17?  They should get squared around this week as we face the lowly Rockues and As at home.  Then like the 12 game winning streak we had they will tell us how good they are.  IMO they are about as good as the 14-18 record they own since the 12 game winning streak.

[Vanimal46]

2 hours ago, Linus said:

Package deal. One goes all go. 

I’m ready for this to be Falvey and Levine’s last season. Desperately grasping for 83 wins isn’t where we should be 8 years into their tenure. The Mahle and Lopez trades went so terribly and once again they acquired a trio of players that rivals Shoemaker, Happ, and Colomé from 2021. 

[RpR]

1 hour ago, LambchoP said:

Please DFA Margot so Balldelli stops putting him out there as a rally killing automatic out.

Margot hate explosion.

In the last 7 games Margot has 4 hits and is batting ,267; in the last 7 games Kirilloff has 3 hits and is batting .200, both have .333 slugging average so, you Margot hate explosion is really rather silly.

[FargoFanMan]

28 minutes ago, mikelink45 said:

I am not asking to get rid of Baldelli, maybe it is the analytics department that needs to go.   

I am really frustrated by this teams ability to slide into indifference.  I want the SB, the hit and run, the extra base.  I want some energy. 

Vasquez, Farmer, Margo have become a joke for me.  Collectively they are 62 for 333 - 186.  When I add up their BR WAR figures I get -1.4 and then Rocco has the gall to have one of them pinch hit!  My god, that is so beyond analyctics. 

Absolutely agree. Kiersey for Margot. Lee for farmer. And literally anyone of our minor league catchers can replicate at the very least what Vazquez is doing. He’s unanimously the worst player in the league. He can’t be played and Jeffers can’t catch every game. something needs to happen. I don’t blame Rocco. First I blame ownership. Second is the front office. We all knew this was bound to happen. We needed everyone to replicate their 2023 second half and that was never in the cards. 

[DKrz56]

59 minutes ago, darwin22 said:

Ok.....if that seems rash (last 10 games for Kepler), lets look at what he's done since 2019 (.252/ 36/90/ .855 OPS)

2020:  .228/9/23/.760*-----Covid 60-game season

2021:   .211/19/54/.719 OPS

2022:  .227/ 9/43/.666

2023:  March thr June 30th

.203 avg/ 11 HR/ 25 RBI/ .692 OPS

Yes, Kep had an excellent 2nd half last season, but that doesn't discount his dismal offensive output for almost 3 full seasons before that.

Out of all the players to criticize this season, you choose Kepler? Now add in his good stretches and include his defense. He's not been an All-star but he's not the problem. 

[tony&rodney]

The Twins are a playoff team if the season was over tonight. Yes, the offense has really struggled to find a rhythm but the MLB season is not the NFL; it is long with many different shapes. No reason to panic when the team is above even and in most of their games. Yankee fans shouldn't be panicked either just because they are getting thrashed tonight by the Dodgers.

[Jocko87]

1 hour ago, Vanimal46 said:

Couldn’t agree more. The roster is mostly old, especially in the pitching department. And a group of 25-27 year olds still trying to establish themselves as MLB talent. I’m not excited about the health of the organization. 

You know whats funny?  I couldn't be more excited about the overall health of the organization.  Also, they are the 8th youngest pitching roster in the league but, hey, its a complain day.

I'm not going to pretend is looks pretty right now but this chicken little crap is beyond old.

[rv78]

I posted in another article the 6 highest paid hitters on the team, getting paid over $80M this year, are hitting a collective .219 so far this year. That was before the Pirates series started. I can't imagine it has improved. We can argue that the young players like Wallner, Julien, Kirilloff aren't/weren't hitting but they aren't the ones who should be carrying this team. The 6 hitters who are getting paid $80M to carry the team are the problem. Look at the Twins leader board. NO CORREA, NO BUXTON, NO KEPLER, NO VAZQUEZ, NO FARMER, NO SANTANA. None of them can hit and there isn't one of them that is anywhere close to being worth what they are getting paid. This team will never amount to anything until the roster turns over completely to the next core of youngsters and that won't happen for another 5 years.

LEADERS

• BATTING
• PITCHING

• 
  Batting Average

  Willi Castro.252

  SSAVG
• 
  Runs

  Willi Castro31

  SSR
• 
  Home Runs

  Ryan Jeffers12

  CHR
• 
  Runs Batted In

  Ryan Jeffers36

  CRBI
• 
  Stolen Bases

  Willi Castro7

  SSSB

[Vanimal46]

6 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

Also, they are the 8th youngest pitching roster in the league

Ah you’re right. Getting rid of 36 year old Jay Jackson and 33 year old Justin Topa not pitching at all will do that.

[Guest]

This team plays like there's a problem in the clubhouse, distance between players and coaching staff.  Too much Jekyll and Hyde.

[JD-TWINS]

3 hours ago, bean5302 said:

Players only meeting? No. Ownership meeting with Falvey and Baldelli where Baldelli packs his bags? Yes.

It’s the Manager - seriously?

Shut-out two days in a row…….also, after 6 really solid innings SWR gives up a HR to a guy that had his last HR in March.

Duran looked like he was still getting warmed up as he pitched ……velocity was 96-98, looked like, on fastballs and then he got them to 102 eventually. He seemed to only throw fastballs for the whole outing……maybe he threw a couple splitters but they weren’t moving much if he did. He just seemed unbelievably uninspired.

I just don’t see any moves that 95% of all Managers in the game wouldn’t make when I watch the Twins. Most of it is just basic logical moves with the roster/talent they have. Do not get the continual bellyaching about the Manager. Players play & right now the Twin’s players are stinking it up.

[1985Fan]

Here’s the problem with Baldelli. When the entire offense is struggling, try something to get things going! How about stealing a base once in a while?! Get the runner to 2nd and eliminate the DP. They hit into 3 today. Maybe bunt runners over when you have 1st and 2nd with no one out. Or hit and run to stay out of the double play. Something, anything than just standing there watching chance after chance wasted. 
why is he putting Kiriloff in LF? He lost one in the sun today?! He has no business in the outfield and he’s not very good at 1B either. Once again he got outsmarted by Shelton with the Margot pinch hitting appearance. 

Baldelli should be optioned to the minors where he can try to learn how to motivate your team. And learn how to think a couple steps ahead so the opposing manager doesn’t make you look foolish, 

[tony&rodney]

Hey, at least the Twins didn't need to use a position player to pitch like the Yankees.

[JD-TWINS]

53 minutes ago, DKrz56 said:

Out of all the players to criticize this season, you choose Kepler? Now add in his good stretches and include his defense. He's not been an All-star but he's not the problem. 

Unfortunately, Kepler & Jeffers are squarely becoming the problem. Being hot for 3-5 weeks is great but completely going in the tank for the next 3-4 weeks is not cool and that is where Max & Ryan are at right now. Kepler has had a couple hits and Jeffers had a 2 HR game last week but other than that they are both spiraling downward, hard!

He looked like Carl Yastrzemski for 3 months last year & for a 5 week stretch this year - it seems to have ended, unfortunately. He was amazing. Definitely needs to find himself.

Dropping Lewis into the line-up to replace Julien’s performance should be a lift and everyone else seems to be in relaxed mode.

[USAFChief]

59 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

It’s the Manager - seriously?

...

Duran looked like he was still getting warmed up as he pitched ……

You believe Duran wasn't warmed up, but don't think that has anything to do with the manager??

Who bought him in?

[howeda7]

Deadass team run by a spreadsheet geek front office and manager and with totally disinterested ownership. They're really hard to root for sometimes. 

[bean5302]

3 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

It’s the Manager - seriously?

Shut-out two days in a row…….also, after 6 really solid innings SWR gives up a HR to a guy that had his last HR in March.

Duran looked like he was still getting warmed up as he pitched ……velocity was 96-98, looked like, on fastballs and then he got them to 102 eventually. He seemed to only throw fastballs for the whole outing……maybe he threw a couple splitters but they weren’t moving much if he did. He just seemed unbelievably uninspired.

I just don’t see any moves that 95% of all Managers in the game wouldn’t make when I watch the Twins. Most of it is just basic logical moves with the roster/talent they have. Do not get the continual bellyaching about the Manager. Players play & right now the Twin’s players are stinking it up.

Where do you get the leap to Duran here? The Twins scored 0 runs. Duran could have been perfect, and the Twins still lose 1-0.

I don't care about what the pitchers do in a loss if the Twins score 0-2 runs in the same way I don't care what the hitters do in a loss if the Twins pitching staff gives up 7+ runs.

Baldelli sets the lineup. Baldelli chooses the platoons. Baldelli chooses to "rest" players all the time. Baldelli chooses the pinch hitters. Firing the manager does a couple things. It can light a fire under the players, and it sends the message the performance won't be tolerated. If the manager doesn't matter, then the manager adds no value to the team and firing him doesn't matter, anyway so why the concern?

[Oldtimer]

Twins make average opponent pitchers look like Cy Young candidates. 

[Oldtimer]

Twins make average opponent pitchers look like Cy Young candidates. 

[Peter]

Yes it sucks twins are losing but I’m not worried at all. Get a win today and get back on winning streak at home. Sweep Colorado/Oakland and go 2-1 against Tampa Bay. We need to and must support our twins more than ever!!!! They need our support during this difficult time. Go twins!!!

[Patzky]

10 hours ago, RpR said:

Margot hate explosion.

In the last 7 games Margot has 4 hits and is batting ,267; in the last 7 games Kirilloff has 3 hits and is batting .200, both have .333 slugging average so, you Margot hate explosion is really rather silly.

I'm more worried about the Kepler Jeffers Buxton and Lewis slumps than that of a backup outfielder.

[Patzky]

5 hours ago, bean5302 said:

Where do you get the leap to Duran here? The Twins scored 0 runs. Duran could have been perfect, and the Twins still lose 1-0.

I don't care about what the pitchers do in a loss if the Twins score 0-2 runs in the same way I don't care what the hitters do in a loss if the Twins pitching staff gives up 7+ runs.

Baldelli sets the lineup. Baldelli chooses the platoons. Baldelli chooses to "rest" players all the time. Baldelli chooses the pinch hitters. Firing the manager does a couple things. It can light a fire under the players, and it sends the message the performance won't be tolerated. If the manager doesn't matter, then the manager adds no value to the team and firing him doesn't matter, anyway so why the concern?

This was the Ideal lineup to field based on the available roster. 

 

It didn't perform.

[Doctor Wu]

You gotta hit the ball and score runs to win games. The Twins ain't doing that lately. Sure, some of Rocco's moves are head scratchers, but he didn't lose these games, The hitters need to wake up, pay more attention, or make the adjustments needed to put the ball in play ... but not double plays. Urrgghhh!!!

[Whitey333]

It is ok to blame Baldelli to some degree.  He's the one that sees the tone.  He makes the lineup.  This team is lifeless most of the time.  They are 8 games below 500 against winning teams.  Now with a relatively healthy lineup they can't blame injuries for losing.  They've turned to blaming the umpires.  Yes they should win against the rockies, a's at home this week.  I'm just not impressed with Baldelli as a manager and this FO .

[JD-TWINS]

10 hours ago, DKrz56 said:

Out of all the players to criticize this season, you choose Kepler? Now add in his good stretches and include his defense. He's not been an All-star but he's not the problem. 

Unfortunately, Kepler & Jeffers are squarely becoming the problem. Being hot for 3-5 weeks is great but completely going in the tank for the next 3-4 weeks is not cool and that is where Max & Ryan are at right now. Kepler has had a couple hits and Jeffers had a 2 HR game last week but other than that they are both spiraling downward, hard!

He looked like Carl Yastrzemski for 3 months last year & for a 5 week stretch this year - it seems to have ended, unfortunately. He was amazing. Definitely needs to find himself.

Dropping Lewis into the line-up to replace Julien’s performance should be a lift and everyone else seems to be in relaxed mode.

[JD-TWINS]

5 hours ago, bean5302 said:

Where do you get the leap to Duran here? The Twins scored 0 runs. Duran could have been perfect, and the Twins still lose 1-0.

I don't care about what the pitchers do in a loss if the Twins score 0-2 runs in the same way I don't care what the hitters do in a loss if the Twins pitching staff gives up 7+ runs.

Baldelli sets the lineup. Baldelli chooses the platoons. Baldelli chooses to "rest" players all the time. Baldelli chooses the pinch hitters. Firing the manager does a couple things. It can light a fire under the players, and it sends the message the performance won't be tolerated. If the manager doesn't matter, then the manager adds no value to the team and firing him doesn't matter, anyway so why the concern?

Showing up & getting 3 outs and keeping the game within a run instead of sheepishly having to be relieved in the 9th would also light a fire under the team. Duran didn’t lose the game - I get it - he sure as hell didn’t contribute very much either. It comes down to EVERYONE doing their jobs…….maybe Lewis & CC are performing at reasonable levels along with Miranda & Castro. Who else does the Manager pencil in or pinch hit other than the other 9, non-performers, on the roster?

Who is playing well offensively? …..is it where they are in the line-up? how much rest they have? …….it is not a Managerial issue.

They have 60% of the schedule left…..currently above .500 and in or on edge of playoffs - not really a reason to make any big moves.

[DJL44]

11 hours ago, The Mad King said:

Yes Joe Ryan and SWR should be throwing bats, destroying lounge chairs. They did everything they could to win these last two games and got zero support. Somebody needs to raise hell and if Rocco, C4, BB or anyone else who thinks they're a leader won't do it then the youngsters might as well. They didn't just lose a pitcher when they let Gray walk, they lost a leader.

Throwing a temper tantrum isn't leadership, it's something you should learn not to do in kindergarten.