The Twins Made A Decision About Royce Lewis and Edouard Julien, But It May Not Be The Right Choice

[Karbo]

I hope they give Julian some reps at 1B while he's in AAA. Thinking of the future. have Julian at 1st, Lee at 2nd, Lewis at 3rd, Correa at SS, seems like a pretty good infield.

[Jeff K]

2 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

It is the only option that makes sense, how does cutting a backup player help the Twins lineup or defense? How does cutting or demoting an outfielder help out? I mean the only other real option was cutting Santana.

I agree.  I think the biggest (but not the only) reason that it was Julien rather than letting go Santana is that Julien NEEDS to go to AAA and regroup.  This should be a positive for Julien.  

[Dman]

2 hours ago, Karbo said:

I hope they give Julian some reps at 1B while he's in AAA. Thinking of the future. have Julian at 1st, Lee at 2nd, Lewis at 3rd, Correa at SS, seems like a pretty good infield.

There are going to be some interesting battles going on for playing time at 2nd and 1st base with Miranda, Kirilloff, Julien and Lee all fighting for two spots.  May the best bat win.

[Jeff K]

1 hour ago, saviking said:

Margot .209 .AVG  AVE279 OBP

Julian .207 AVG  ..309 OBP

Farmer .163  AVG .274 OBP

---------------------------

Julian's lack of versatility, has options left, and the team isn't ready to admit they made bad signings, which is why Julian is the one. Any talk of his poor performance vs the other two isn't justified.

 

I don't have the numbers to prove this, but I am almost certain that Farmer's May numbers were much better than Julien's.  Farmer is not the future.  Julien should be the future and needs to be at AAA to figure things out.  Farmer stays until Lee is ready, or Julien comes back up raking.

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, stringer bell said:

I don't see Farmer playing more as a result of Lewis returning. He won't pinch hit and enter games for Castro, as he has for Julien. The first pinch hitter for Larnach would likely be Margot, with Castro staying at second base. Except for concerns about Lewis' health, I don't think there's a rationale to bring Farmer in to replace Royce (with Castro moving to third) as they have done with Miranda. 

Farmer has to get more playing time with Lewis returning and Julien gone or else Farmer is going to be used so sparingly that his roster position can't be justified. 

Unless Miranda plays 2B we don't have the cover at the position anymore. Juliens role has to be replaced by Castro... If not Castro... It's Farmer every day. So let's assume Castro takes Juliens Role because I'm sure that he will. 

Farmer would retain his short side duties at 2B

However.

Castro will add Juliens role while retaining his other roles with the club.

1. OF against Left Handers - Castro hits left handers best... If he isn't in the lineup against left handers... We will all know that the Twins have gone off the deep end. If Castro is in the OF against left handers... Farmer has to play 2B.  

2. CF when Buxton needs a maintenance day or plays the occasional DH. These Buxton maintenance days will occur against right handers so unless Margot steps into this CF role... Which I guess is possible... Although, Castro sure seems to be Rocco's first choice when Buxton takes time off. With Castro in CF... This means Farmer has to play 2B because there is nobody else unless Miranda plays 2B.  

3. SS when Correa needs a maintenance day. Correa took yesterday off. Correa will get maintenance days right handers. When that happens Castro will have to slide over to SS and that makes Farmer play 2B unless MIranda can play 2B because there is nobody else. Unless Rocco leaves Castro at 2B so making Farmer play SS. Either way... Farmer is playing against a right handed pitcher. 

Basically... Farmer keeps his short side job but adds starts against Right handed pitching due to the necessity of Castro playing CF and SS. With Julien on the roster... it was possible to limit Farmer to short side platoon work.  

So unless Miranda plays 2B. Farmer's playing time has to increase. 

[Riverbrian]

6 hours ago, Matthew Taylor said:

What will the designated hitter rotation look like now?
Expect Miranda to lead the way as a designated hitter for the Twins, especially against left-handed pitching. Additionally, the Twins will likely want to bring back Lewis slowly in his first month or so. A cycle of Miranda and Lewis at DH is likely. 

With the upgrade at designated hitter, the Twins will likely lean more on Ryan Jeffers at the catcher spot and not play him as often at DH, shifting more catching work away from Christian Vázquez.

If Miranda is leading the way as a DH. When does Kirilloff or Larnach play? 

Also if Miranda is a back up to Santana at 1B as you mention. That would be hard to justify in my eyes.

Kirilloff or Larnach splitting AB's against Right Handers would be hard to justify in my eyes.

Miranda reduced to short side DH work would be very little reason to keep him. 

If Santana ends up with full time duties out of this deal. 

I will scream loudly.      

[Riverbrian]

The one thing that is obvious through all of this. 

The importance of Willi Castro is now off the charts. The team almost can't function without him and it can be argued that he becomes the most important player on the team. 

[DJL44]

4 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

If Miranda is leading the way as a DH. When does Kirilloff or Larnach play? 

Larnach should be the starting LF. Castro is the everyday 2B.

[David Maro]

Julien has to go down to St Paul because he was caught between pitches.You can't stand in the box watching pitches in the zone.He should have watched Miranda's at bat the other night when he saw a dozen pitches.He needs to swing the bat at close pitches,not stand there watching strike three.As far as the Lewis situation he can play LF if needed,so Miranda is at third.

[Riverbrian]

4 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Larnach should be the starting LF. Castro is the everyday 2B.

That would leave Farmer getting splinters in his rear end.  

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

1 hour ago, Dman said:

Which begs the questions why keep Farmer at all?  Keep Julien at second and then you have Castro to fill in at any spot and not be stuck at 2nd base.

Farmer plays all the infield positions, plays them soundly (unlike Julien in my opinion), and that Farmer is also the emergency catcher, if I am not mistaken. 

The problem i think is that Twins fans have become conditioned to expect every player on this roster will get a bunch of plate appearances, just because. No reason Farmer should be getting as many at bats as he does. Rocco’s early game pinch hitting I think is a factor here. Although o the flip side, if Farmer did get more regular playing time, his offense might actually improve. Not arguing that should happen, but that might explain the thinking and why he gets as many at bats as he does. 

[Morland]

Julian needs to stop thinking that he's Ted Williams and is going to get the benefit of the doubt on pitches close to the strike zone. Learn to swing away or foul off close pitches. Julian draws enough walks and hits for enough power that a batting average close to .250 will make him a valuable major league player.

 

[AKTwinsFan]

Julien showed his potential last season even hitting one of the few home runs not by Lewis or Polanco in the postseason. He's lost his aggressiveness at the plate on pitches in the zone, either late or strikeouts looking. If he gets back on track he should immediately be promoted though. He's too good to be where he's at now.

[Mike Sixel]

Martin for Farmer is the obvious move at this point. He can play second and the OF, and is a legit speedster for late inning running. 

Julien need a reset. Plenty of great players needed one at some point. I'm confident he'll hit well again. The question is, will he or Lee do it first? 

I'm all for Miranda at first over Santana, but that's not happening.....

[DJL44]

8 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Farmer plays all the infield positions, plays them soundly (unlike Julien in my opinion), and that Farmer is also the emergency catcher, if I am not mistaken. 

Farmer does have a role as a late inning defensive replacement with Castro moving to the OF.

[bean5302]

I absolutely would have demoted Kirilloff since I don't think he has a future in MLB. He's a AAAA guy who has an option and will be Arb2 non-tender material at the end of the year. I guess Falvey is desperate with Kirilloff, and the hope he can actually reproduce last year's aberration performance at the plate against RHP. I guess it could pay dividends in a trade deadline move if another team buys in on Kirilloff so we can dump him? I suppose Wallner is finally heating up in AAA (maybe he got over his mental yips at the plate?). It'll be interesting to see how long Kirilloff's leash is.

Julien's batting average being .190 over the recent games doesn't bother me a ton. He's always going to be a low AVG guy because he strikes out 30-35% of the time. That was his MO last year, it'll always be his MO. You're talking about a guy who is still sporting a league average bat at wRC+ 99. There's just nothing left for him to prove in the minors. Either he's MLB caliber or he's not, and that's something he has to prove at the MLB level. Having a rough month happens to hitters, especially high K guys.

Brooks Lee!!!! OMG Brooks Lee!!!! is a non-issue here. He's been in Rookie ball and Low A rehabbing, but I expect he'll be in St. Paul soon. He couldn't hold his own in AAA last year and he needs at least a couple months at the AAA level to prove he's legit... unless he's Royce Lewis out of the blue in 2022. Pushing Julien down to 2B in St. Paul means Brooks Lee probably doesn't get reps there.

 

[bespenson]

Why not have Lewis play second base, at least against lefthanded pitchers. That would give the Twins a pretty powerful lineup...Lewis, Miranda, Buxton, etc. Lewis was a shortstop originally, should be able to shift to second easily despite being on the opposite side of the field. Miranda seems to be quite adequate fielder at third (should learn how to better tag runners approaching third base). Just a thought. I know is supposed to be the forever third baseman for the Twins, but... that can wait.

 

[bean5302]

5 minutes ago, bespenson said:

Why not have Lewis play second base, at least against lefthanded pitchers. That would give the Twins a pretty powerful lineup...Lewis, Miranda, Buxton, etc. Lewis was a shortstop originally, should be able to shift to second easily despite being on the opposite side of the field. Miranda seems to be quite adequate fielder at third (should learn how to better tag runners approaching third base). Just a thought. I know is supposed to be the forever third baseman for the Twins, but... that can wait.

 

Because Lewis is the likely face of the franchise and best player on the Minnesota Twins who has earned a static position. It's uncommon to shift around super stars for average players. Also, Miranda is not a good third baseman not only due to his limited range, but a weak arm.

[DJL44]

15 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

I absolutely would have demoted Kirilloff since I don't think he has a future in MLB. He's a AAAA guy who has an option and will be Arb2 non-tender material at the end of the year. I guess Falvey is desperate with Kirilloff, and the hope he can actually reproduce last year's aberration performance at the plate against RHP. I guess it could pay dividends in a trade deadline move if another team buys in on Kirilloff so we can dump him? I suppose Wallner is finally heating up in AAA (maybe he got over his mental yips at the plate?). It'll be interesting to see how long Kirilloff's leash is.

Kirilloff reminds me of Randy Bush. Teams carried a larger bench and smaller bullpen in the 1980s than they do now. It is a lot harder for a Randy Bush type player to carve out a career now.

The Twins are going to tender him a contract this winter because they're going to let Kepler walk.

[Squirrel]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

I'm not opposed to sending Julien down to catch his breath.

I'm opposed to rostering Farmer. And Vazquez. And Margot. This was an easy opportunity to rip off the band aid.

I know you are an offense first and only guy but I think Vázquez is the better player behind the plate than Jeffers. By far. Jeffers is the better player at the plate. I think it matters to have a good catcher behind the plate. With Carmago out with injury there is no one else I would even think of calling up at this point.

But back to Julien. Send him down. Let him find his swing. Then bring up him, Lee and Martin. Buh bye to Margot and Farmer. I’m okay with this move now as long as the better move comes at the break. 

[DJL44]

12 minutes ago, bespenson said:

Why not have Lewis play second base, at least against lefthanded pitchers. That would give the Twins a pretty powerful lineup...Lewis, Miranda, Buxton, etc. Lewis was a shortstop originally, should be able to shift to second easily despite being on the opposite side of the field. Miranda seems to be quite adequate fielder at third (should learn how to better tag runners approaching third base). Just a thought. I know is supposed to be the forever third baseman for the Twins, but... that can wait.

Castro has a lot more experience at 2B and will play it better than Royce. Lewis is much a better fielder at 3B than Miranda. Playing Lewis at 3B and Castro at 2B gives you your best defensive alignment.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

7 minutes ago, bespenson said:

Why not have Lewis play second base, at least against lefthanded pitchers. That would give the Twins a pretty powerful lineup...Lewis, Miranda, Buxton, etc. Lewis was a shortstop originally, should be able to shift to second easily despite being on the opposite side of the field. Miranda seems to be quite adequate fielder at third (should learn how to better tag runners approaching third base). Just a thought. I know is supposed to be the forever third baseman for the Twins, but... that can wait.

 

Someone else mentioned that but I am not a fan. I think it makes Royce Lewis into more of a utility player than a fixture at third base, which he needs to be. 

On a related note, as long as we are talking about moving everyone else around the infield, maybe we can start thinking about Correa moving to third at some point. There’s no way I would make that move as long as Correa is performing the way he is but it will become a legitimate topic at some point down the road sooner or later. 

[IndianaTwin]

1. March 28 (Opening Day)
2. March 30
3. April 8
4. April 9
5. April 13
6. April 16
7. April 22
8. April 29
9. May 3
10. May 18
11. June 3

While it's a fun exercise, it's pretty easy to overthink this. Opening pitch tomorrow evening, in their 60th game of the year, will come with their 11th different combination of position players on the roster. I think all but one of the moves, the April 16 activation of Larnach for Wallner, involved a player either being put on the IL or activated from it.

To go from May 3 to June 3 without a position player being put on the IL is quite unusual. If (pick your favorite least favorite) veteran gets too many at bats in the next month because no one got hurt and none of the optionable players have sucked, all in all that will be a good problem to have. 

[Riverbrian]

9 minutes ago, IndianaTwin said:

1. March 28 (Opening Day)
2. March 30
3. April 8
4. April 9
5. April 13
6. April 16
7. April 22
8. April 29
9. May 3
10. May 18
11. June 3

While it's a fun exercise, it's pretty easy to overthink this. Opening pitch tomorrow evening, in their 60th game of the year, will come with their 11th different combination of position players on the roster. I think all but one of the moves, the April 16 activation of Larnach for Wallner, involved a player either being put on the IL or activated from it.

To go from May 3 to June 3 without a position player being put on the IL is quite unusual. If (pick your favorite least favorite) veteran gets too many at bats in the next month because no one got hurt and none of the optionable players have sucked, all in all that will be a good problem to have. 

For the moment we are position player healthy at the major league level. For the first time this year. 

For the moment we will be able to look at the team play with the understanding that this was how the front office designed it to play.

Winning or not winning during this time period makes a statement on the front office off-season plans. Injuries are no longer an excuse... at least for the moment. 

[IndianaTwin]

2 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

For the moment we are position player healthy at the major league level. For the first time this year. 

For the moment we will be able to look at the team play with the understanding that this was how the front office designed it to play.

Winning or not winning during this time period makes a statement on the front off-season plans. Injuries are no longer an excuse... at least for the moment. 

I don't know. DeSclafani is still hurt, so we have that excuse available... 🤣

Given that they've played at 90 or 91-win pace to date, if the current roster stayed healthy, I'll take my chances with it. 

 

[Mike Sixel]

29 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

I know you are an offense first and only guy but I think Vázquez is the better player behind the plate than Jeffers. By far. Jeffers is the better player at the plate. I think it matters to have a good catcher behind the plate. With Carmago out with injury there is no one else I would even think of calling up at this point.

But back to Julien. Send him down. Let him find his swing. Then bring up him, Lee and Martin. Buh bye to Margot and Farmer. I’m okay with this move now as long as the better move comes at the break. 

He's close to the worst hitter in the game. How much defense can fix that? Really. 406 batters have 50 or more at bats. He's the 400th "best" hitter......5 wrc+. That's not a typo......

[Riverbrian]

11 minutes ago, IndianaTwin said:

I don't know. DeSclafani is still hurt, so we have that excuse available... 🤣

Given that they've played at 90 or 91-win pace to date, if the current roster stayed healthy, I'll take my chances with it. 

 

As much as I complain about the heavy usage of platoon.

At the same time... I can't dismiss the possibility that it is working... at least a little bit. 

Still wouldn't do it to this degree because I think it has a time bomb attached to it but it's not like we are making plans for a high draft choice next year. If the playoffs started today. The Twins are in.   

[Doctor Gast]

The best solution was not getting Margot & Santana. They log jamming their positions. We have Keirsey, Wallner & Martin that should be playing ball. Julien was not demoted he was sent down to work on his swing hopefully that won't take long. When he comes back he'll be a better player. That is what we need to look at 

[ashbury]

Roster management is not always straightforward.  The FO must weigh what's best for the team right now, what's best for the team in the long run, and what's best for the player himself.

Fortunately in this case, sending Eddie to AAA, to try and straighten out whatever's wrong with his approach at the plate, checks all of the boxes.  As a bat-first player, he needs to hit, period.   He's doing no one including himself any good with what he's done so far this season.

[CharlieDee]

This was the right move. But based on past history, I don't expect Lewis to last long.... I really hope I'm wrong.