Should they look at Cole Sands in the rotation?

[jorgenswest]

Varland may benefit from a reset in AAA.

Woods Richardson looked good in his first major league start. He might be the best option though he has been inconsistent in AAA. Festa has a nice ERA but 11 walks in 12 innings. With his lack of command he is averaging 3 innings a start.

I might start Sands in a bullpen day instead. Why not bring back Alcala (optioned the 14th) and send out Varland? I think Alcala is eligible to return the 24th. Start Sands on Wednesday with a hopefully rested pen following Lopez. Sands has used four pitches this year which can work as a starter. He has thrown as many as 35 pitches in relief. Can he start out approaching 50 and build from there?

I don’t want to continue the debate about whether the Twins intended to leave themselves without depth in the rotation. The reality is that they don’t have any depth in the rotation whether intended or not after their winter moves.

I an interested in thoughts about whether it is worthwhile to see if Sands can add to that depth.

 

[jkcarew]

You’re bound to stress the bullpen as he ramps. Obviously, it’s a desperation move…sadly worth considering despite it only being April.

Meanwhile, Alcala might be turning back into Alcala back in St Paul.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

1 hour ago, jorgenswest said:

Varland may benefit from a reset in AAA.

Woods Richardson looked good in his first major league start. He might be the best option though he has been inconsistent in AAA. Festa has a nice ERA but 11 walks in 12 innings. With his lack of command he is averaging 3 innings a start.

I might start Sands in a bullpen day instead. Why not bring back Alcala (optioned the 14th) and send out Varland? I think Alcala is eligible to return the 24th. Start Sands on Wednesday with a hopefully rested pen following Lopez. Sands has used four pitches this year which can work as a starter. He has thrown as many as 35 pitches in relief. Can he start out approaching 50 and build from there?

I don’t want to continue the debate about whether the Twins intended to leave themselves without depth in the rotation. The reality is that they don’t have any depth in the rotation whether intended or not after their winter moves.

I an interested in thoughts about whether it is worthwhile to see if Sands can add to that depth.

 

Swap Varland for SWR and Sands for Alcala?

[jorgenswest]

21 minutes ago, jkcarew said:

You’re bound to stress the bullpen as he ramps. Obviously, it’s a desperation move…sadly worth considering despite it only being April.

Meanwhile, Alcala might be turning back into Alcala back in St Paul.

I should have used the phrase “desperation mode” which was sadly predictable. The key for me is adding starting pitching depth and wondering whether Sands can help. The schedule with the White Sox ahead and the return soon of Duran and Topa should help with the stress on the pen. If the White Sox stress the bullpen against the rest of the Twins rotation they have bigger problems than Sands can fix. You would hope sandwiched between Lopez and Ryan starts the bullpen could handle the immediate stress.

As for Alcala he is not the key piece here. He did give up a 2 run home run in his inning today. No runs were scored in his previous two innings but they can go to Staumont or someone else. That pitcher will likely go back down when Topa or Duran is ready. 
 

[jorgenswest]

32 minutes ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Swap Varland for SWR and Sands for Alcala?

Maybe. They could then stretch out Sands as a starter in AAA. 

[lecroy24fan]

Rocco likes the transition he's making into possibly a late inning guy so no don't move him into the rotation.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

1 hour ago, jorgenswest said:

Maybe. They could then stretch out Sands as a starter in AAA. 

They could also stretch out Sands on the fly, up here with the Twins.

Sands last worked yesterday, same as Ober. The Twins could assign both to pitch in the Thursday matinee against the White Sox, when it’s Ober’s turn again, with a plan something like Ober for 5 or 6 and Sands for 3 or 4 innings. Although it would be understandable to bring in a closer if the Twins held a one or two run lead in the 9th that day. Varland would then pitch the next night in L.A. with a rested bullpen. If they then decide Varland should go back to AAA after that Angels start, and if Sands comes out of that hypothetical Thursday performance feeling good, then Sands could slip into Varlands spot in the rotation. 

I’m not saying this should happen or not. It is a valid discussion topic and fun to chew on. When I watched Sands make starts in 2022, my gut said he was not cut to be a starter, but things can change, and the Twins do need to be looking for starters here and now. 

Edited April 22, 2024 by Hosken Bombo Disco
Corrected next opponent to LA not Boston

[CRF]

He's currently too valuable as the "mop up guy" long reliever, after our starters get shelled. Leave him in the pen...for now. 

[Riverbrian]

Yes he should be a consideration. 

This type of consideration is how you get through a 162 games schedule. 

Which pitchers are hanging zeroes and how many innings can you get out of those that are. 

 

[laloesch]

They are going to make a move there's no question about it.  Paddack and Varland have been awful.  Need two starters.

[NotAboutWinning]

6 minutes ago, laloesch said:

They are going to make a move there's no question about it.  Paddack and Varland have been awful.  Need two starters.

It really does matter who pitches if they don't score any runs.

[Old Twins Cap]

Twins have lost games because of their offense, their defense, their starters and their relievers.

They have a historically low batting average, with low number of HRs;  they aren't stealing bases, nor getting on base even, and they continue to strike out at a very high rate after breaking records on that score last year.

They aren't fun to watch, and it's unclear which players to root for and which to hope they send down for more seasoning.

Pretty much a worst case scenario for the players, fans and management.

When you don't play well, at any level, you end up where the Twins are.  There is no substitute for making winning plays, and no where to go when you aren't able to do that.

 

[chpettit19]

Is his boost in performance from maximizing his pitches in a short burst that would go away if he were a starter? Or, asked another way, is he Louie Varland 2.0 and you'd be replacing Varland with Varland in essence? I don't know, but that's the question I'd be looking to answer before deciding whether or not to stretch him out. 

[wabene]

11 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

You would hope sandwiched between Lopez and Ryan starts the bullpen could handle the immediate stress.

You would also hope that they learned their lesson when they had Bundy and Archer back to back stressing the pen. This year it has been Louie and Paddack.

[laloesch]

43 minutes ago, NotAboutWinning said:

It really does matter who pitches if they don't score any runs.

i AGREE.  This is a 100 loss team I think this season.  They are playing that badly.

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

Pitchers need to be perfect for this team to win games right now. When Detroit scored 2 in the first and the Twins didn't capitalize with the bases loaded, you knew it was an L. 

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

And I wouldn't mess with Sands right now. He's found a groove in the 'pen and the Twins could stand to use all the help they can get from their relievers - despite the 'best bullpen in baseball' narrative that was floated before spring training. I wouldn't overthink it. SWR in, Varland down. If no other reason, show that players are held accountable. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

They can't keep running Varland out there much longer. It's torpedoing the season and it's no good for him, either.

But what other option is there? None of them are good.

Thanks, Pohlads.

[laloesch]

14 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

They can't keep running Varland out there much longer. It's torpedoing the season and it's no good for him, either.

But what other option is there? None of them are good.

Thanks, Pohlads.

Not that I disagree, but Paddack has only been marginally better, and the offense has sucked almost as bad as Varland's pitching (if such a comparison is possible).  Not sure how much i'd blame this on the FO or ownership because many of the players with the club from last season have not gotten it done AT ALL this season so far. 

At some point eyes need to start staring at Rocco and his assistants and asking: what exactly did you do to prepare these guys in spring training, or more importantly, fail to do in getting these players prepared?  Quite honestly only a handful of them looked ready in Spring Training and much the same thing happened last season, but not to this degree.  Maybe part of the problem is Rocco.  

[Rod Carews Birthday]

I think starting Sands is definitely worth looking at.  While not ever really profiling as a top notch starter, the league is full of “not top notch” starters who can give their team a decent chance at winning a ballgame.  He’s got a decent pitch repertoire and isn’t someone who they are relying on in high leverage situations, so that makes him a fungible asset.  Start him and see if he can get 3 or 4 innings.  You are certainly no worse off than yesterday‘s mess with Varland.

[USAFChief]

I'd much prefer leaving Sands where he is. But, if he's gonna get moved into the rotation, do that by stretching him out in St Paul. Not by trying to patch together short starts for the Twins. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

11 minutes ago, laloesch said:

Not that I disagree, but Paddack has only been marginally better, and the offense has sucked almost as bad as Varland's pitching (if such a comparison is possible).  Not sure how much i'd blame this on the FO or ownership because many of the players with the club from last season have not gotten it done this season.  They didn't look prepared during spring training and they don't look ready now.  Rocco and his assistants anyone?  I mean we are trying to look at this logically the first play i look is coaching staff and preparation, and these guys just don't look ready to play.

There is more to blame than ownership, definitely. Guys just aren't performing.

But taking a contending team with good vibes and lopping 20% off payroll was a mistake.

[stringer bell]

1 hour ago, Old Twins Cap said:

Twins have lost games because of their offense, their defense, their starters and their relievers.

They have a historically low batting average, with low number of HRs;  they aren't stealing bases, nor getting on base even, and they continue to strike out at a very high rate after breaking records on that score last year.

They aren't fun to watch, and it's unclear which players to root for and which to hope they send down for more seasoning.

Pretty much a worst case scenario for the players, fans and management.

When you don't play well, at any level, you end up where the Twins are.  There is no substitute for making winning plays, and no where to go when you aren't able to do that.

 

I agree with every word written above. The question to answer is where to start as far as making changes. Wallner was optioned, it appears the next player to be demoted will be Varland. Are there any other transactions or role changes to be made? 

On another thread, I made the case that Paddack deserves some slack. His first two starts were in the acceptable area, short, with a lot of base runners, but only four runs allowed in 8+ innings. He got knocked around big time against Baltimore, but that does happen (see Bailey Ober vs. KC). 

The veterans holdovers and acquisitions who were supposed to provide quality defense and at-bats have all disappointed. Farmer and Santana appear like they are cooked, while Castro and Margot haven't done the job either. Vázquez has continued to do a Sandy León impersonation.

Things will get better. A healthy Byron Buxton isn't a no-power .210 hitter. Carlos Correa is a star and maybe a superstar, Royce Lewis might be the Twins' best player. They couldn't all stay injured all year, could they?

The front office deserves all the scorn leveled at them. In the end, they'll be judged on results and so far the results are dreadful. 

 

[laloesch]

5 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

Things will get better. A healthy Byron Buxton isn't a no-power .210 hitter. Carlos Correa is a star and maybe a superstar, Royce Lewis might be the Twins' best player. They couldn't all stay injured all year, could they?

When is Byron Buxton EVER healthy?  Time to move on from Bux.

[John Belinski]

1 hour ago, Old Twins Cap said:

Twins have lost games because of their offense, their defense, their starters and their relievers.

They have a historically low batting average, with low number of HRs;  they aren't stealing bases, nor getting on base even, and they continue to strike out at a very high rate after breaking records on that score last year.

They aren't fun to watch, and it's unclear which players to root for and which to hope they send down for more seasoning.

Pretty much a worst case scenario for the players, fans and management.

When you don't play well, at any level, you end up where the Twins are.  There is no substitute for making winning plays, and no where to go when you aren't able to do that.

 

Twins need a change in leadership or this season is over.

[JD-TWINS]

15 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

Varland may benefit from a reset in AAA.

Woods Richardson looked good in his first major league start. He might be the best option though he has been inconsistent in AAA. Festa has a nice ERA but 11 walks in 12 innings. With his lack of command he is averaging 3 innings a start.

I might start Sands in a bullpen day instead. Why not bring back Alcala (optioned the 14th) and send out Varland? I think Alcala is eligible to return the 24th. Start Sands on Wednesday with a hopefully rested pen following Lopez. Sands has used four pitches this year which can work as a starter. He has thrown as many as 35 pitches in relief. Can he start out approaching 50 and build from there?

I don’t want to continue the debate about whether the Twins intended to leave themselves without depth in the rotation. The reality is that they don’t have any depth in the rotation whether intended or not after their winter moves.

I an interested in thoughts about whether it is worthwhile to see if Sands can add to that depth.

 

Don’t think any sane FO - intends - to not have starter depth. DeSclafani being out & Varland not really being “competitive” is a punch in the gut. I think Paddack will settle in going forward.

SWR being inconsistent in St. Paul shouldn’t scare anybody - he’s not a #1-2 guy. Ober gave up 8 in 1 1/3 innings in his opener and since has been lights out. Bad starts spotted between decent outings are normal. Our goal is to win 55% of the time, not every day.

Festa was my hope in the off-season to bring depth but 12 innings to date and the walks have me thinking, June at best.

Sands has been back & forth between roles and has battled injuries. Sands seems very composed. That helps!!! Let Sands start in Varland’s next spot and expect to work 3 innings - then Varland with the expectation to go 2 innings (reduce the pitch mix) - then Thielbar/Bowman/Okert mix to get into the 8th…….Varland can be used in similar 1-2 inning spot following another appropriate guy during the week.

SWR up as soon as he’s definitely needed. Maybe he gets another spot start in the next couple weeks to give everyone an extra day?

[IndianaTwin]

Baldelli after yesterday's game: 

“There is urgency here,” Baldelli said. “I mean, we can’t play like this, pitch and play like this, and think things are just going to be fine. And our guys know it’s not just going to be fine. We’re going to have to do things. We’re going to have to be open to making roster moves and finding new ways to use players and figure some things out.”

Rocco doesn't tend to telegraph roster moves, so this sounds like a change. With the amount they used the bullpen yesterday, if the plan is to demote Varland, I suspect we will see it today in order to get another reliever up. They don't have to have another starter available until Friday, so they don't have to go with another transaction until then.

 

[$tryf4Life]

16 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

Varland may benefit from a reset in AAA.

Woods Richardson looked good in his first major league start. He might be the best option though he has been inconsistent in AAA. Festa has a nice ERA but 11 walks in 12 innings. With his lack of command he is averaging 3 innings a start.

I might start Sands in a bullpen day instead. Why not bring back Alcala (optioned the 14th) and send out Varland? I think Alcala is eligible to return the 24th. Start Sands on Wednesday with a hopefully rested pen following Lopez. Sands has used four pitches this year which can work as a starter. He has thrown as many as 35 pitches in relief. Can he start out approaching 50 and build from there?

I don’t want to continue the debate about whether the Twins intended to leave themselves without depth in the rotation. The reality is that they don’t have any depth in the rotation whether intended or not after their winter moves.

I an interested in thoughts about whether it is worthwhile to see if Sands can add to that depth.

 

The good and the bad of this club right now is no idea is a stupid one. Anything is worth a shot. 
 

I think there is a non zero chance that Sands can pitch better than a 9+ era. Try it out! The major league product is absolute garbage so anything should be on the table. Otherwise we are just giving into to sub mediocrity. 

[$tryf4Life]

1 hour ago, John Belinski said:

Twins need a change in leadership or this season is over.

It’s hard to lead when your team doesn’t believe in you. This team looks lifeless, unprepared and bored. I second the vote for a change. 

[$tryf4Life]

13 hours ago, lecroy24fan said:

Rocco likes the transition he's making into possibly a late inning guy so no don't move him into the rotation.

Rocco liked the transition of Varland too. And the lineup he trots out there each day. 
 

With each ugly loss Rocco’s opinion becomes less important, at least to me.