Twins Officially Out On Boras Big Four, Instead Reported Interest In Depth

[wiguy94]

Twins' owner Joe Pohlad said in an appearance with WCCO radio’s Jason DeRusha yesterday that his club isn’t likely to make a significant late splash. Pohlad stated, “…We’re not going to go out and spend $30MM on a player right now”. While he did not mention Boras Big Four by name he also stated, “The players that are out there right now that probably a bunch of fans are talking about, we are not in the market for those players”.

The Twins however have reportedly expressed interest in Michael Lorenzen, Adam Duvall, and Michael A. Taylor. In addition to those three, the Twins also watched Jake Odorizzi's recent workout in his attempted comeback.

Do the Twins have more moves to come before the start of the 2024 season?

 

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[Cory Engelhardt]

I'm not saying this will happen. But didn't Thad Levine report that the Twins were out on signing Josh Donaldson in 2020, only for like 4 days later to sign him?

I can't find that quote, but I still am curious how the offseason will play out.

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

Neither Snell nor Montgomery will be taking a deal similar to what Carlos Correa took in 2022. For the Twins to sign either one, they'd have to commit guaranteed money for multiple years. Would anyone want them to go that route if it potentially prevents them from signing Ryan, Duran, Lewis, or another young player long-term? I'd venture to say the answer is likely to be NO.

Buyer beware on Bellinger. Two horrific seasons followed up by a big season in a contract year. We've seen that before. 

Matt Chapman. Meh. Don't see an immediate fit or need for this team.

Sure, it is nice to win the off-season with splashy headlines and big names but that doesn't always equate to winning games. This roster, as it currently stands, is good for 85-90 wins (health allowing). Making moves on the margins, and those moves are still out there, are more than enough.

[Cory Engelhardt]

I'm also thinking, with the Twins NOT being in on Bellinger, that tells me that Kirilloff's wrist is feeling good, and they are truly thinking that Buxton is healthy.

IF both of those are true, that's a good thing right?

[Brock Beauchamp]

6 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

I'm also thinking, with the Twins NOT being in on Bellinger, that tells me that Kirilloff's wrist is feeling good, and they are truly thinking that Buxton is healthy.

IF both of those are true, that's a good thing right?

I don't think the two things are linked. I think the Twins are out on Bellinger for purely monetary reasons.

Personally, I'm okay with that. Bellinger is a lefty hitter - god knows the Twins don't need more of those in the OF - and I don't trust his bat to play at first at that elevated dollar amount. He just isn't a great fit here, IMO.

[Cory Engelhardt]

6 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I don't think the two things are linked. I think the Twins are out on Bellinger for purely monetary reasons.

Personally, I'm okay with that. Bellinger is a lefty hitter - god knows the Twins don't need more of those in the OF - and I don't trust his bat to play at first at that elevated dollar amount. He just isn't a great fit here, IMO.

I can get behind that too. I know Julien is working at 1b some too, so HOPEFULLY 1b is a strength this year (with Santana able to play against lefties.)

But yeah, I don't think they won't be open to adding. It's just these big 4 aren't what they need to be adding. I agree with that.

[nicksaviking]

10 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I don't think the two things are linked. I think the Twins are out on Bellinger for purely monetary reasons.

Personally, I'm okay with that. Bellinger is a lefty hitter - god knows the Twins don't need more of those in the OF - and I don't trust his bat to play at first at that elevated dollar amount. He just isn't a great fit here, IMO.

I don't trust Bellinger either. His contract demands are really asking for a lot of short term memory.

[JD-TWINS]

Kirilloff had a 117 OPS+ ……. his wrist seemed fine last year. He hit .270…….hard hit rate as % was 6 % above average at 44%. OBP of .348. Averaged 1 HR per 25 AB.

Shoulder seems to have healed over winter.

With Kirilloff getting 500 AB’s being ready from the jump this year, he hits 20 HR. Santana gets 250 AB’s between 1B - DH - Pinch hitting……..he hits 10 HR. That’s good production between the two!

I think Lee will take a bit to be ready with the bat……into June. His role will depend on many factors. Is Buxton healthy? If not, Lee - Lewis - CC can get AB’s at DH. Lee can share “the resting duties” between 2B - SS - 3B with Farmer. Castro will be very focused on OF if Lee’s brought up.

I still think Lee is the Central guy at 3B after September 1………Lewis plays some at 3B - more at DH - possibly in LF as well.

Gotta have Kirilloff - Julien - Lewis - Lee - CC in the line-up to hit!!

Wallner - Buxton - Kepler is the baseline but with an injury, Lewis could fill in out there on grass along with Castro.

[Fatbat]

Well if our high to moderate prices vets have a solid season, we can afford to play some rookies to see who will stick in MLB. 

[dxpavelka]

I for one ALWAYS believe everything professional sports front office guys say at all times.

[Jocko87]

I've been out on this big 4 for several months. 

[Rod Carews Birthday]

9 hours ago, Jocko87 said:

I've been out on this big 4 for several months. 

This.  Exactly.  

Chapman doesn’t fit.  Montgomery wants to get paid like he’s a #1 arm, which he isn’t.  Bellinger and Snell. . . . Which version do you get?  The good or the bad?  Way too uncertain to sign them for big bucks and big years.  Save the money for now and see what happens by the trade deadline.

[TwinsDr2021]

20 hours ago, Twins_Fan_in_NJ said:

Matt Chapman. Meh. Don't see an immediate fit or need for this team.

100% agree he isn't a fit for the Twins, but Meh?  4 time gold glove winner, and has WAR of 4.4,3.5,3.5,1.2(2020), 7.8,7.6,3.2 for a total of 31.2 in 7 seasons and will turn 31 in a couple of months.

To be honest none of the players besides Bellinger interested me and he didn't at the cost that has been talked about.

[Brandon]

Montgomery on a 1 year 22-25 million deal if he falls to us maybe.....  I wouldn't sign any of these pitchers to a longer than 1 year deal because of long term budget but if one Snell or more likely Montgomery could be had..... 

[Tttaz_Twins]

The 4 primary Boras clients either aren’t worth what is being asked for(and you know damn well Boras will have them hold out as  long as possible), or are just ignorant to how this season has played out. Two of them think that they’re deserving Of star money for one year of production(Snell and Bellinger), and the other two to get elite money for less than elite production. 
Yes, we could  still use a couple of players, but I don’t see anyone as a dire need.

 

Lets see where everyone is at in a couple of weeks, then they’ll know if things need supplementing. 

[dxpavelka]

On 2/21/2024 at 6:09 PM, JD-TWINS said:

Kirilloff had a 117 OPS+ ……. his wrist seemed fine last year. He hit .270…….hard hit rate as % was 6 % above average at 44%. OBP of .348. Averaged 1 HR per 25 AB.

Shoulder seems to have healed over winter.

With Kirilloff getting 500 AB’s being ready from the jump this year, he hits 20 HR. Santana gets 250 AB’s between 1B - DH - Pinch hitting……..he hits 10 HR. That’s good production between the two!

I think Lee will take a bit to be ready with the bat……into June. His role will depend on many factors. Is Buxton healthy? If not, Lee - Lewis - CC can get AB’s at DH. Lee can share “the resting duties” between 2B - SS - 3B with Farmer. Castro will be very focused on OF if Lee’s brought up.

I still think Lee is the Central guy at 3B after September 1………Lewis plays some at 3B - more at DH - possibly in LF as well.

Gotta have Kirilloff - Julien - Lewis - Lee - CC in the line-up to hit!!

Wallner - Buxton - Kepler is the baseline but with an injury, Lewis could fill in out there on grass along with Castro.

I'll believe KIrilloff is healthy when I see 450 plate appearances.  The difference between him and Buxton is that at least Buxton has demonstrated his ability to be a difference maker if he stays healthy.  Kirilloff has looked ok but not yet special. Maybe he gets there.

[tony&rodney]

1 hour ago, dxpavelka said:

I'll believe KIrilloff is healthy when I see 450 plate appearances.  The difference between him and Buxton is that at least Buxton has demonstrated his ability to be a difference maker if he stays healthy.  Kirilloff has looked ok but not yet special. Maybe he gets there.

This is a fair comment. Kirilloff last had that many plate appearances in 2018. Take a look though and you can see what AK is capable of accomplishing with the bat. In both 2022 and 2023, Kirilloff destroyed AAA pitching with pretty delicious numbers. I can see the frustration fans have with Alex and Byron, but these guys healthy are prime middle of the order bats. Kirilloff tried to play through some issues last season before he was finally just shelved. 

It is a little interesting to know that AK did have more PA than Royce Lewis last year. Also, while the year was largely considered a loss for Kirilloff, his numbers weren't really that far off from the heralded young guns.

The Twins could really use a healthy thumping Alex Kirilloff batting third this season. Eyes will be on him because his arbitration time is short. I half expected Kirilloff to be traded this offseason, but believed it would be a mistake to sell low.

Finally, a healthy finely tuned performance from each of the four expected to fill the infield positions is one of the keys to a great run this season and their promise is likely a reason that Falvey decided to hold off on a big trade for a pitcher.  

[jkcarew]

On 2/21/2024 at 3:47 PM, Cory Engelhardt said:

I'm also thinking, with the Twins NOT being in on Bellinger, that tells me that Kirilloff's wrist is feeling good, and they are truly thinking that Buxton is healthy.

IF both of those are true, that's a good thing right?

That’s definitely an “Optimistic” take on it.

Still, the motivation for any act/decision is almost always the most obvious and simple. As Deep Throat said (not that one…the other one), “Follow the money”

Their stated plan (which we hope is short-term) is to constrain payroll…and hope. A limping Buxton in 2024, was only ever going to get us an Austin Martin or maybe a MAT. The answer to an iffy Kirilloff has already been rendered in Santana.

I’d like to agree, but I don’t think this tells us anything about how they REALLY feel about Buxton and Kirilloff.

[Cap'n Piranha]

Very interesting to me that the majority of posters on this thread seem uninterested in spending money on the available free agents, yet in a different thread the majority of posters were borderline apoplectic that the Twins weren't spending more on payroll.  Either the sampling of posters is almost mutually exclusive, or some people are suffering from severe cognitive dissonance.

[Cap'n Piranha]

On 2/22/2024 at 8:00 AM, TwinsDr2021 said:

100% agree he isn't a fit for the Twins, but Meh?  4 time gold glove winner, and has WAR of 4.4,3.5,3.5,1.2(2020), 7.8,7.6,3.2 for a total of 31.2 in 7 seasons and will turn 31 in a couple of months.

To be honest none of the players besides Bellinger interested me and he didn't at the cost that has been talked about.

Are those WAR numbers bWAR?  Fangraphs puts him at 2.6, 6.3, 5.7, 1.1, 4.1, 4.2, and 3.5 for a total of 27.4.  Pretty close, but not so close that it's unimportant.  It's also worth noting that a large percentage of Chapman's worth comes from his defense--if you look at wRC+ (which strips out defense), Chapman's career number is 118; that's his exact figure for 2020 and 2022, but 2021 was 101, and 2023 110.  Last year, the Twins as a team had a 109 wRC+; Polanco was 7th on the team with a 118 wRC+, and Willi Castro was 9th at 109.

If the Twins are signing Chapman, they're either moving him to 1B (where his defense no longer matters nearly as much, and his bat is below average, as all 1B in the league put up a 120 wRC+ in 2023), or they're moving Lewis off third, which doesn't make much sense either.  Chapman is a meh because he might be the worst fit of any of the top free agents available; he's such a bad fit that his one true positive (elite third base defense) is essentially null, meaning for the 2024 Twins, barring an injury to Lewis that lets him play every day at third, Chapman is very meh.  I can think of better things to do with $25M than buy a Royce Lewis insurance policy.

[nicksaviking]

3 hours ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

Very interesting to me that the majority of posters on this thread seem uninterested in spending money on the available free agents, yet in a different thread the majority of posters were borderline apoplectic that the Twins weren't spending more on payroll.  Either the sampling of posters is almost mutually exclusive, or some people are suffering from severe cognitive dissonance.

These same posters? 

Not sure about that. I said right away in the offseason I'd like one big free agent (and they weren't big, they were very reasonable), and if they couldn't get one of the three I liked, I'd like them to get none.

Ripping the Twins for their disastrous handling of the TV deal and ripping Joe Pohlad for his complete tone-deaf interview and seeing it as a frightening omen for the future aren't the same as demanding more free agents.

And aren't other posters allowed to have wanted OTHER free agents and not these particular four? These guys all have enough warts to turn stomachs. I mean, do we normally open birthday presents blindfolded and like what we get unconditionally?

[RaoulDuke]

An Odorizzi reunion would interest me if he looked decent in his showcase.  He can battle Tony D for the 5th spot or be depth, I always thought he might look interesting out of the pen letting it fly. 

Taylor or Duvall would be ok as Buxton insurance/ the Kyle Garlick RH role. 

 

[dxpavelka]

On 2/23/2024 at 8:46 AM, tony&rodney said:

This is a fair comment. Kirilloff last had that many plate appearances in 2018. Take a look though and you can see what AK is capable of accomplishing with the bat. In both 2022 and 2023, Kirilloff destroyed AAA pitching with pretty delicious numbers. I can see the frustration fans have with Alex and Byron, but these guys healthy are prime middle of the order bats. Kirilloff tried to play through some issues last season before he was finally just shelved. 

It is a little interesting to know that AK did have more PA than Royce Lewis last year. Also, while the year was largely considered a loss for Kirilloff, his numbers weren't really that far off from the heralded young guns.

The Twins could really use a healthy thumping Alex Kirilloff batting third this season. Eyes will be on him because his arbitration time is short. I half expected Kirilloff to be traded this offseason, but believed it would be a mistake to sell low.

Finally, a healthy finely tuned performance from each of the four expected to fill the infield positions is one of the keys to a great run this season and their promise is likely a reason that Falvey decided to hold off on a big trade for a pitcher.  

Lots of guys destroy AAA pitching but never quite do the same at the MLB level.  There's even a term for them:  AAAA players. The heralded young guns have done more in less time at the big league level  That's why they are heralded.  Kirilloff might get there but until he does he hasn't .

 

[tony&rodney]

54 minutes ago, dxpavelka said:

Lots of guys destroy AAA pitching but never quite do the same at the MLB level.  There's even a term for them:  AAAA players. The heralded young guns have done more in less time at the big league level  That's why they are heralded.  Kirilloff might get there but until he does he hasn't .

 

Kirilloff doesn't fall into that category at all, not even close. He was pretty much the same as Julien, Lewis, and Wallner last year despite the injuries. I would not give up on AK. His bat can play as well as anyone on the Twins team. Only Correa and Kepler are more proven. I'm not counting Santana, Farmer, or Vazquez as regulars but they are proven as well.

[Lasorda_This_Out]

Anybody see todays report in CBS Sports that the MLBPA is considering filing a complaint of Contract Violation from Minnesota Twins executive Joe Pohlad's comments on the recent WCCO radio interview?

[terrydactyls]

I'm curious as to how a front office becomes "officially" out on free agents.  Are there papers they must submit to the commissioner's office?  Is there any fee attached to this declaration?  Can this affirmation be reversed?  IMHO there already is an excessive amount of legal documents floating around MLB.

[John Belinski]

Young players are the key to teams winning and not overpaid players whose best years are behind them.  Players that Boras has are usually over the hill and overpaid. Hard to understand why owners sign these players to long term contracts and then have to pay them long after they can not perform.