Buxton and Kirilloff news

[CRF]

Do Hyoung Park reported that Buxton underwent arthroscopic surgery on his knee today, to "excise the plica"...which hopefully will alleviate the patella tendinitis in the knee. Let's hope this procedure works and he can get back on the field next season. 

Edit - I added some news about Kirilloff below this. Maybe one of the admins can change the title to say "Buxton and Kirilloff news". 

[ashbury]

I was hoping for something like this.  Surgeons usually prefer a conservative course of treatment, which in turn left hope for fans that those sawbones weren't out of ideas for Byron after last off-season's procedure didn't do the trick.  Of course there's no guarantee this fixes him up, but it's better news IMO than "rest during the off-season."

 

[CRF]

Wait...there's more. Also from Do Hyoung Park...Kirilloff is going to have surgery later this month to repair the labrum in his right shoulder. Lets get all this stuff done right away so these guys can rehab and get back to full strength. Love it! 

[spanman2]

Get em get em fixed get em right and ready in '24!

[Musk21]

1 hour ago, CRF said:

Wait...there's more. Also from Do Hyoung Park...Kirilloff is going to have surgery later this month to repair the labrum in his right shoulder. Lets get all this stuff done right away so these guys can rehab and get back to full strength. Love it! 

Someone on Twitter mentioned that this surgery would require a 6-8 month rehab? If so, that would mean a return sometime between April and June of next year. Who's our opening day 1B?

[Blyleven2011]

15 minutes ago, Musk21 said:

Someone on Twitter mentioned that this surgery would require a 6-8 month rehab? If so, that would mean a return sometime between April and June of next year. Who's our opening day 1B?

Better not be Gallo  ...

[Mike Sixel]

Good luck to Buxton. You need to plan for zero games from him when building the roster, IMO. 

As for AK.....I commented in the other thread ...

[RpR]

1 hour ago, Blyleven2011 said:

Better not be Gallo  ...

Well Gallo is a far, far better fielder than Kirilloff; so keep Gallo around and when Kirilloff comes back, play  Kirilloff till defense is of utmost importantance and then put Gallo in.👍

[RpR]

3 hours ago, CRF said:

Wait...there's more. Also from Do Hyoung Park...Kirilloff is going to have surgery later this month to repair the labrum in his right shoulder. Lets get all this stuff done right away so these guys can rehab and get back to full strength. Love it! 

This might be more serious than his wrist.

I destroyed my Labrum landscaping; the doctor asked what I was doing when it went kaput.

I told him I was, literally, throwing sod rolls.

He told me , my days of throwing sod rolls was over; he said they could fix it, this time, there would be no fixing it next time.

 

[FlyingFinn]

2 hours ago, Musk21 said:

Who's our opening day 1B?

Julien. If Kirilloff is out most of next year, I see a free agent signing on a one year contract. 

[Schmoeman5]

Buxton knee surgery and Kirilloff shoulder surgery. 2 days after the playoffs end. So Buxton went on the IL in August. Did some rehab. Had a setback. Was put on the roster for game 4. Has 1 AB. And now surgery is scheduled. Why not back in August when he went down? Kirilloff. They rested him. He played well down the stretch but started falling off as the year ended. They acknowledged the problem but let it go until he couldn't swing a bat??? He was getting shots just so he could play. Some of the decisions are really puzzling. I know guys want to play. Playoffs and all but if you're injured how is playing helping the team or yourself.

[Mike Sixel]

30 minutes ago, FlyingFinn said:

Julien. If Kirilloff is out most of next year, I see a free agent signing on a one year contract. 

Why? There aren't many great ones, and Julien, Miranda, Larnach, and Wallner can play first. So can Prato and Severino. Or Buxton if he can't run full time. 

[notoriousgod71]

Durability is the best ability.

[RpR]

5 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Why? There aren't many great ones, and Julien, Miranda, Larnach, and Wallner can play first. So can Prato and Severino. Or Buxton if he can't run full time. 

Oh heck, one of the Bull Pen can play there it is so easy.

[Schmoeman5]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Why? There aren't many great ones, and Julien, Miranda, Larnach, and Wallner can play first. So can Prato and Severino. Or Buxton if he can't run full time. 

Maybe robo umps can play 1st

[DocBauer]

Kind of hard to balance 2 threads talking about the same topic. But tossing out a few thoughts:

BUXTON:

Really hope this can "fix" the tendinitis issue so he can at least play CF on a part time basis. I just don't see him ever being a primary CF again. Best case scenario, IMO, is 80 games in CF, another 40 games at DH. It stinks, but I see that as reality and the Twins should approach 2024 just like this past season and have a backup plan.

I can see Taylor back again, with a bump in $, to be anything from a 4th OF, to a mostly full time CF. I don't see the Twins giving that job to Martin YET. 

I don't like a full time DH on my team, even with it being universal in MLB now, unless it's someone very special. BUT, if Buxton's knee persists in limiting his tremendous abilities, IF he could make the mental and physical adjustments to being a primary DH in the future...probably with advice from guys like Molitor and Cruz...his combined OPS from 2019-2022 is in the .800's plus. Nobody wants that to be his future, of course. But it's a potential reality to look at and consider. 

KIRILLOFF:

When does this kid get a break? The good news is his wrist issue seems solved. The bad news is he's about to miss, potentially, half of 2024, though it's been stated the damage and recovery time won't be known until the actual procedure takes place. He's also been down this path before, and seems to be a pretty solid person mentally. The Twins seem to have a good support system. He's still only 25yo. There's still a reality where he comes out of this and reaches his potential, albeit, a couple years later than hoped for or expected.

I DO think Julien is part of the discussion for 1B in 2024. (If Arraez was part of the 1B equation previously, why not Julien?) And while Polanco is one of my favorite players the past few years, still under appreciated in my mind, I'd like to see him also playing some 1B to keep his bat in the lineup and "rest" his legs a bit at 1B. 

But even with hope for AK, I wonder if 1B doesn't suddenly become an opportunity for the Twins to make an addition to the lineup? What if they can add a 1B who's at least solid defensively, can pop 25 HR and 30+ doubles and HIT a bit and only K around 20-25% of the time? That might be something to really consider. Not going in to potential names at this point, just saying it might be something to look at to re-shape the lineup a bit more to the contact side of things.

[Schmoeman5]

18 minutes ago, DocBauer said:

Kind of hard to balance 2 threads talking about the same topic. But tossing out a few thoughts:

BUXTON:

Really hope this can "fix" the tendinitis issue so he can at least play CF on a part time basis. I just don't see him ever being a primary CF again. Best case scenario, IMO, is 80 games in CF, another 40 games at DH. It stinks, but I see that as reality and the Twins should approach 2024 just like this past season and have a backup plan.

I can see Taylor back again, with a bump in $, to be anything from a 4th OF, to a mostly full time CF. I don't see the Twins giving that job to Martin YET. 

I don't like a full time DH on my team, even with it being universal in MLB now, unless it's someone very special. BUT, if Buxton's knee persists in limiting his tremendous abilities, IF he could make the mental and physical adjustments to being a primary DH in the future...probably with advice from guys like Molitor and Cruz...his combined OPS from 2019-2022 is in the .800's plus. Nobody wants that to be his future, of course. But it's a potential reality to look at and consider. 

KIRILLOFF:

When does this kid get a break? The good news is his wrist issue seems solved. The bad news is he's about to miss, potentially, half of 2024, though it's been stated the damage and recovery time won't be known until the actual procedure takes place. He's also been down this path before, and seems to be a pretty solid person mentally. The Twins seem to have a good support system. He's still only 25yo. There's still a reality where he comes out of this and reaches his potential, albeit, a couple years later than hoped for or expected.

I DO think Julien is part of the discussion for 1B in 2024. (If Arraez was part of the 1B equation previously, why not Julien?) And while Polanco is one of my favorite players the past few years, still under appreciated in my mind, I'd like to see him also playing some 1B to keep his bat in the lineup and "rest" his legs a bit at 1B. 

But even with hope for AK, I wonder if 1B doesn't suddenly become an opportunity for the Twins to make an addition to the lineup? What if they can add a 1B who's at least solid defensively, can pop 25 HR and 30+ doubles and HIT a bit and only K around 20-25% of the time? That might be something to really consider. Not going in to potential names at this point, just saying it might be something to look at to re-shape the lineup a bit more to the contact side of things.

Not disagreeing. Who is the 1st base free agent who might be available that can do what your last paragraph mentions

[DocBauer]

33 minutes ago, Schmoeman5 said:

Not disagreeing. Who is the 1st base free agent who might be available that can do what your last paragraph mentions

I don't have an answer at this time. Pure speculation on my part. Way too early. Might be a FA. Might be a deal for a 1yr player like we did for Taylor this past offseason.

Maybe the fix for AK's labrum is not that bad and the Twins roll with some POTENTIAL combination of Julien, Polanco, and a healthy Miranda. Maybe there's a cheap C.J. Cron out there that was damn good right up until a late season injury. Just saying, there might be an option to hedge bets.

[insagt1]

sadly Kirilloff is heading down Buxton Blvd with persistent injuries. One after another it seems is preventing him from being what the Twins were hoping for.

Anyone old enough to remember Nick Johnson? Potential Yankee superstar in waiting. He had it all. But then injuries struck, and struck and struck and suddenly he was all done. He was supposed to be the real deal. These sort of things happen.

[David Maro]

Everyone keeps talking about Polanco and Kepler being gone next year. Why do they keep talking about Buxton back in center next year. His body will not allow him to do so. It was a bad extension to sign him to.It is time to move on,see if you can trade him picking up part of the money owed.The AK situation is starting to look like another Buxton.With him out for the start of the season,Miranda over Gallo at 1st.And bring Polanco back for 2nd with Julien at DH and 1st.

[RpR]

Kirilloff is not a good first baseman and Miranda is no better.

Buxton CANNOT be traded unless he agrees, period.

Twins need a first rate first baseman; do not know if Gallo will be around next spring, but if he is, he is the best fielder at first the Twins have right now.

Julien at first would lead the coaches to tightning their sphincter muscles every time a  ball comes his way.

[wabene]

Per Buxton:

Apparently if you have a thick plica, but are not an athlete, it may never cause a problem. But if it is thick and you use your knee heavily, it can become inflamed. If non surgical procedures don't work, they will cut out the inflamed tissue.

This seems to be unexpectedly good news;

"If a plica is small then it is irrelevant. It a plica is big/thick but you’re a couch potato then it’s still irrelevant. However, if you’ve got a big/thick plica and you do a lot of exercise then the plica can rub inside the knee and become inflamed. If the symptoms are bad enough, then the proper treatment is to have an arthroscopy. This allows the whole of the inside of the knee to be checked thoroughly, and then whatever plical tissue is found can be excised easily, with a tiny shaver. Recovery from this surgery is normally quick (about 6 weeks) and it usually completely cures the problem."

https://kneearthroscopy.co.uk/condition/medial-plica-syndrome/

 

 

[jkcarew]

Hate to say it, but Kiriloff is entering the Buxton category of “can’t count on him to be a contributor”. Sad.

[Roaddog]

AK has a tough road ahead. I had a similar surgery two years ago, and it still bothers me. Good thing he is in better shape and not pushing 50

[wabene]

On 10/14/2023 at 4:59 PM, wabene said:

Per Buxton:

Apparently if you have a thick plica, but are not an athlete, it may never cause a problem. But if it is thick and you use your knee heavily, it can become inflamed. If non surgical procedures don't work, they will cut out the inflamed tissue.

This seems to be unexpectedly good news;

"If a plica is small then it is irrelevant. It a plica is big/thick but you’re a couch potato then it’s still irrelevant. However, if you’ve got a big/thick plica and you do a lot of exercise then the plica can rub inside the knee and become inflamed. If the symptoms are bad enough, then the proper treatment is to have an arthroscopy. This allows the whole of the inside of the knee to be checked thoroughly, and then whatever plical tissue is found can be excised easily, with a tiny shaver. Recovery from this surgery is normally quick (about 6 weeks) and it usually completely cures the problem."

https://kneearthroscopy.co.uk/condition/medial-plica-syndrome/

 

 

Hey @Lucas Seehafer PT I bumped this after reading your take on AK's surgery hoping you might weigh in on this. From what I can tell this looks like really good news, maybe even good enough for Buxton in center. 

[Lucas Seehafer PT]

9 minutes ago, wabene said:

Hey @Lucas Seehafer PT I bumped this after reading your take on AK's surgery hoping you might weigh in on this. From what I can tell this looks like really good news, maybe even good enough for Buxton in center. 

Buxton is pretty much right on the money. This is another example of a best case scenario procedure. I wrote a brief Twitter thread once his surgery was announced:

 

[Major League Ready]

It's looking like Buxton is the wildcard of 2024.  We could get nothing but wow what a boost for this team if we get the best of Byron Buxton.  We will find out how confident they are by what the line-up as a back-up plan.

[Ztretter37]

If Buxton can't play centerfield and only DH, then we might as well get rid of him. Because if he's not hitting well he can at least play elite defense 

[ewen21]

On 10/14/2023 at 5:36 PM, David Maro said:

Everyone keeps talking about Polanco and Kepler being gone next year. Why do they keep talking about Buxton back in center next year. His body will not allow him to do so. It was a bad extension to sign him to.It is time to move on,see if you can trade him picking up part of the money owed.The AK situation is starting to look like another Buxton.With him out for the start of the season,Miranda over Gallo at 1st.And bring Polanco back for 2nd with Julien at DH and 1st.

I hear you, but we are on the hook with Buxton for five more seasons.  The guy is still up on a pedestal for a lot of people and some whom still insist "if not for injuries" he'd be a Hall of Famer.   A mere critique of the guy sets off anger in some people and I find that kind of amusing at this point.  Where does that anger come from?  I have no idea.

 

I for one never saw him as an elite player.  I think he is a very spotty offensive player and that is easily more than half of a position player's game, save the catching position.  He had elite speed and yet he was not a good base stealer.  He strike out a ton and his lifetime OBP is under .300, which is kind of pathetic for someone who is supposed to be "elite".  His defense, while great, reached mythically stupid proportions.  No, he was not saving boatloads of runs...not ever.  He made a lot of good plays look spectacular and there are never more than several plays (maybe) in any season he made that no other center field could make.  There aren't large ranges on the field where Byron Buxton or any other centerfielder only makes the play and no other centerfielder does.  The average CF makes about 2 put outs a game and Byron Buxton is not the only one who makes great plays. The Twins overvalued his speed and defense and ignored his offense and inability to stand up to the rigors of major league baseball even when it was obvious.  We signed him and I thought it was a stupid signing from a baseball standpoint.  So many people had drunk the Kool-Aid (including teammates) that we literally had to sign from a PR/marketing standpoint.  So much was already bestowed upon him and he didn't deserve it.  The Twins need to learn a lesson here.

 

Now the guy can't even play the field and he is exposed for what he is.  He never was a good hitter.  He had moments where it looked like he was turning into a better hitter, but we had a center fielder that was a whole lot better than he is and that man is Torii Hunter.  Give me Torii Hunter ten times out of ten over Buxton and I have said this all along.  Buxton is a mirage.  He simply is not wired to play a full season of major league baseball.  You can chalk it up to whatever you want, but that is a proven fact.  If we could hit the eject button and launch him into baseball outer space we ought to.  Then again, we are committed to him for another five years so we have no other choice than to hope for the best for at least another two years while he gets paid to remain in limbo while people speculate about his availability.  At this point it is hard for me to care much about whether he is in the lineup or not.  He doesn't help very much anyway. 

[Parfigliano]

1 hour ago, ewen21 said:

I hear you, but we are on the hook with Buxton for five more seasons.  The guy is still up on a pedestal for a lot of people and some whom still insist "if not for injuries" he'd be a Hall of Famer.   A mere critique of the guy sets off anger in some people and I find that kind of amusing at this point.  Where does that anger come from?  I have no idea.

 

I for one never saw him as an elite player.  I think he is a very spotty offensive player and that is easily more than half of a position player's game, save the catching position.  He had elite speed and yet he was not a good base stealer.  He strike out a ton and his lifetime OBP is under .300, which is kind of pathetic for someone who is supposed to be "elite".  His defense, while great, reached mythically stupid proportions.  No, he was not saving boatloads of runs...not ever.  He made a lot of good plays look spectacular and there are never more than several plays (maybe) in any season he made that no other center field could make.  There aren't large ranges on the field where Byron Buxton or any other centerfielder only makes the play and no other centerfielder does.  The average CF makes about 2 put outs a game and Byron Buxton is not the only one who makes great plays. The Twins overvalued his speed and defense and ignored his offense and inability to stand up to the rigors of major league baseball even when it was obvious.  We signed him and I thought it was a stupid signing from a baseball standpoint.  So many people had drunk the Kool-Aid (including teammates) that we literally had to sign from a PR/marketing standpoint.  So much was already bestowed upon him and he didn't deserve it.  The Twins need to learn a lesson here.

 

Now the guy can't even play the field and he is exposed for what he is.  He never was a good hitter.  He had moments where it looked like he was turning into a better hitter, but we had a center fielder that was a whole lot better than he is and that man is Torii Hunter.  Give me Torii Hunter ten times out of ten over Buxton and I have said this all along.  Buxton is a mirage.  He simply is not wired to play a full season of major league baseball.  You can chalk it up to whatever you want, but that is a proven fact.  If we could hit the eject button and launch him into baseball outer space we ought to.  Then again, we are committed to him for another five years so we have no other choice than to hope for the best for at least another two years while he gets paid to remain in limbo while people speculate about his availability.  At this point it is hard for me to care much about whether he is in the lineup or not.  He doesn't help very much anyway. 

They should use this on his ever to be nonexistent HOF writeup.