Rumor: MLBTR Twins Rumor Roundup

[TwinsDr2021]

2 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

I am not sure where you are coming from.  Trading Gray or Maeda or Solano / MAT / Gallo has no impact on next year.  How could trading them push anything back?  Kepler has an option but let's not forget he has been mediocre since 2019.  Their top 5 offensive players are "young guys" and #6 is someone who was brought in on a one year deal so he won't be here next year.  The established guys that were supposed to carry us have underperformed and have been outperformed badly by the young guys.   The only established guys that have performed are role / bench players like Farmer and Solano.  Continuing to favor mediocre veterans is more likely to hold us back than making room for youth.  

 

Edouard Julien		156
Matt Wallner		155
Ryan Jeffers		135
Royce Lewis		131
Alex Kirilloff		124
Donovan Solano		117
Joey Gallo		103
Max Kepler		103
Kyle Farmer		101
Byron Buxton		99
Jorge Polanco		98
Willi Castro		98
Trevor Larnach		98
Carlos Correa		94
Michael A. Taylor		86
Kyle Garlick		78
Christian Vazquez		69
Jose Miranda		58
Nick Gordon		30

 

I guess you missed the part you initially replied to where I said - With that said, they should be doing some selling and some buying this year.  I was replying to somebody that basically said sell off hand the jobs to prospects, some of which haven't been good for a while and one that has been terrible this year.

When you are in first and have been terrible the last two years, you can't dump everything and say we are going fully young guys because our real goal is 24 or 25. They should be dumping some Vets and "prospects - Larnach/Wallner/Miranda" and replacing the players traded away with prospects and some Vets all while getting and sending some other minor league players. 

[jorgenswest]

17 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

That's what makes this fun. Civale is pitching really well, but the guy from Tampa Bay will flat out mash and could provide a spark for them like Julien has for us. Cleveland has those six years of team control of him, in exchange for 2.5 years of Civale. We hear it all the time, but in this case it is probably true that Civale's trade value will never be higher than it is right now. 

I am surprised Cleveland couldn’t do better. The floor on starting pitching is so low. The floor on first baseman is pretty high. I would have thought they should have been able to find a similarly ranked up the middle player or starting pitcher.

I am glad they won’t have Civale in 24 and 25.

[KirbyDome89]

9 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

That's what makes this fun. Civale is pitching really well, but the guy from Tampa Bay will flat out mash and could provide a spark for them like Julien has for us. Cleveland has those six years of team control of him, in exchange for 2.5 years of Civale. We hear it all the time, but in this case it is probably true that Civale's trade value will never be higher than it is right now. 

They definitely sold high on Civale, but that 1B hasn't seen a big league pitch so spark plug for them seems like a stretch but ya never know I guess. McKenzie and Bieber aren't coming back anytime soon (if at all) this season. To me this was a clear "sell," on 2023. 

[Major League Ready]

1 minute ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

I guess you missed the part you initially replied to where I said - With that said, they should be doing some selling and some buying this year.  I was replying to somebody that basically said sell off hand the jobs to prospects, some of which haven't been good for a while and one that has been terrible this year.

When you are in first and have been terrible the last two years, you can't dump everything and say we are going fully young guys because our real goal is 24 or 25. They should be dumping some Vets and "prospects - Larnach/Wallner/Miranda" and replacing the players traded away with prospects and some Vets all while getting and sending some other minor league players. 

The young guys have been better than the established guys but you ignore it as if the facts are not clear.  What's really wild is you advocating buying and not giving the young guys a chance in the same post where you declare "they have been terrible for two years.  I would like to see them add a RH bat but expending any significant lipstick on this pig is just leveraging the future for lipstick.

[howeda7]

2 hours ago, Muppet said:

There could be a drop off, but then again, Gray seems to be losing it lately and Keuchel seems to be doing better than expected. Maybe Gray will get it together and Keuchel really is a pumpkin, but there is also a really good chance that the drop off isn't THAT large. The more important thing is Gray can't win games because he can't get run support. It is also my opinion that right now Gray isn't any better (or much better) than Madea, Ryan, Lopez, and Ober. Having a strong top 4 and a mediocre to good 5 isn't the worst thing. Losing 3 straight playoff games without generating more than a very small handful of runs is one of the worst things. 

There is a point regarding it not being just Gray vs Keuchel. I don't really see this coming down to winning the division by 1 game. Either we will get our %%^^ together and win it by 4 + or we'll collapse again and lose it by that much IMO. So I don't think trading Gray flips our chances of making the play-offs much. But he would be one of our 4 play-off starters, so there is the downgrade from say Ober to Maeda in game 4 of a play-off to consider, even if you feel that Gray/Ryan/Ober/Lopez are all pretty even.

[SteveLV]

Me, I would trade/let go Taylor and bring up Stevenson to see if he is a late-blooming player or not.  Keirsey can get promoted to AAA and see if he can handle that level of pitching.

I would do the same with Gallo and bring up either Larnach or Prato.

I would trade one of Farmer or Solano and bring up Lee.

They are not going to do anything in the post season--assuming they make it--unless they find some more offensive weapons and they might as well explore in-house options first.

On the pitching side I would look to trade Maeda for a good bullpen piece, unless they have had good discussions on a new contract extension beyond this year.  He has pitched very well since his return.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

4 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

They definitely sold high on Civale, but that 1B hasn't seen a big league pitch so spark plug for them seems like a stretch but ya never know I guess. McKenzie and Bieber aren't coming back anytime soon (if at all) this season. To me this was a clear "sell," on 2023. 

It feels more like 'sell' to me too, but not throwing in the towel. It looks like they will gamble on 2023 with their three impressive rookie starters still in the rotation, plus Syndergaard now, plus whatever callups or bullpen games they can patch together.  

It was probably their best or only chance to get a guy they really liked in Manzardo. 

[Cris E]

The AL Central is going to be won or lost by the Twins, and nothing CLE does is going to change that. Either we get it together and walk away or we don't, but the teams behind us are even further from real contention and are even less likely than the Twins to mortgage their futures for a 2023 Wildcard Play In Game commemorative second place trivet.

[DJL44]

11 hours ago, SteveLV said:

I have heard absolutely no news that the Twins have tried to extend Gray.

So the trade off is 9 more starts from Gray and a sandwich comp pick when he rejects the QO (and potential playoff start(s))

VS.

Trade value return.

I would submit that better be a pretty strong trade value to make that trade.

I think there's a chance Gray accepts the QO. He was talking about retirement but 1 year $20M may be tempting.

[Rik19753]

5 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

I am surprised Cleveland couldn’t do better. The floor on starting pitching is so low. The floor on first baseman is pretty high. I would have thought they should have been able to find a similarly ranked up the middle player or starting pitcher.

I am glad they won’t have Civale in 24 and 25.

That floor is baked into prospect rankings. If Manzardo played a good shortstop while hitting like he does he would be a top 5 prospect. Much like CES, he is ranked highly despite the fact that he plays 1B, which says a lot about his bat.

[Mike Sixel]

6 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

I guess you missed the part you initially replied to where I said - With that said, they should be doing some selling and some buying this year.  I was replying to somebody that basically said sell off hand the jobs to prospects, some of which haven't been good for a while and one that has been terrible this year.

When you are in first and have been terrible the last two years, you can't dump everything and say we are going fully young guys because our real goal is 24 or 25. They should be dumping some Vets and "prospects - Larnach/Wallner/Miranda" and replacing the players traded away with prospects and some Vets all while getting and sending some other minor league players. 

What if the young guys are just better? Outside the pitching, I'm pretty sure some are. 

[Mike Sixel]

4 hours ago, Cris E said:

The AL Central is going to be won or lost by the Twins, and nothing CLE does is going to change that. Either we get it together and walk away or we don't, but the teams behind us are even further from real contention and are even less likely than the Twins to mortgage their futures for a 2023 Wildcard Play In Game commemorative second place trivet.

Agreed. The Twins should be better, given the full roster.... But outcomes don't always reflect that. 

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

15 hours ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

You don’t think there’s much of a drop off between Gray and Keuchel or Varland?

There's a drop off but from what I've seen from Gray of late, I don't think the drop off is steep enough to cost the Twins the division - especially if they get MLB talent in return for Gray and/or make other moves.

[laloesch]

21 hours ago, IA Bean Counter said:

“Wouldn't shock me if I didn't play any more after this year," Gray told Twins MLB.com reporter Do-Hyoung Park. "Wouldn't shock me. Do I want to? Do I think I can? Absolutely. And I can at a very, very high level. It's not about the money. It's whether you still enjoy it, and does your family still enjoy it."  

Look I think we can all agree Sonny is a different breed.  Both good and bad.  He is very analytical, tweaking ect.   Even though this has been one of his best years, I think he is having a personal struggle of knowing his stuff is beginning to wane a bit and trying to maintain being an elite pitcher.  Even myself and my wife had have conversations about at what time could we either cut back on work or retire due to just the daily stress.  Sonny doesn't make that statement unless he is serious.  I still think he comes back to play,  however I am not going to just push that statement to the side.   All the money pales into comparison to your family.  If he feels he has a large enough next egg, I could see him retiring.  If not then yes he could sign a 2-3 year contract.  

 

he's not being serious, and is playing the reporter like a fiddle.   He will take the money.  NO WAY he turns down a 3 or 4 year deal for what he's going to get via free agency 0.000000% CHANCE.  

[AceWrigley]

16 hours ago, Schmoeman5 said:

I honestly think the Twins are going to stand pat. Cleveland deals Civale. Bieber on IL. Chicago dealt a lot. I think the Twins FO thinks this team will win the division by default. The only move I see them making is DFA Gallo upon Lewis return. I'd be surprised if they bring in anyone for help this year. Clock us ticking. 

Yeah, you might be right. When I saw the Guardians of Lake Erie sent Civale packing I thought the same thing. Their starting depth to draw from is a little lower in the minors. They did get Thor but he's pitching like a shell of his former self.

It would at least prevent us from making bad trades.

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

6 games left with the Guardians. Does anyone have confidence in the Twins winning more than 2 of those games? The Rocco factor looms large.

[nicksaviking]

14 hours ago, SteveLV said:

Me, I would trade/let go Taylor and bring up Stevenson to see if he is a late-blooming player or not.  Keirsey can get promoted to AAA and see if he can handle that level of pitching.

I would do the same with Gallo and bring up either Larnach or Prato.

I would trade one of Farmer or Solano and bring up Lee.

They are not going to do anything in the post season--assuming they make it--unless they find some more offensive weapons and they might as well explore in-house options first.

On the pitching side I would look to trade Maeda for a good bullpen piece, unless they have had good discussions on a new contract extension beyond this year.  He has pitched very well since his return.

I agree, but I'd call up Keirsey straight from AA instead of Stevenson. Unless this team thinks Buxton or Lewis is going to be playing CF next season, they need to start having internal auditions for next year or they're going to be in the exact same position they were last off season. The free agent CF options are flat out awful after you get past Bellinger, who is a year-to-year wild card and probably going to command more than he should.

[SpicyGarvSauce]

3 minutes ago, Twins_Fan_in_NJ said:

6 games left with the Guardians. Does anyone have confidence in the Twins winning more than 2 of those games? The Rocco factor looms large.

I'd lay the juice that they do not.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

2 hours ago, laloesch said:

he's not being serious, and is playing the reporter like a fiddle.   He will take the money.  NO WAY he turns down a 3 or 4 year deal for what he's going to get via free agency 0.000000% CHANCE.  

Similar things were said about Robert Smith, Barry Sanders and many others.   Money isn't the #1 thing to all people.  Once you have created a good nest egg and invested well that extra year or two isn't necessary.  Maybe he was playing the reporter,  I don't think he is, and with those statement to say there is 0.0000% chance he turns down a big offer to retire . . . I would take that bet any day because the odds are all in my favor.  

[Road trip]

58 minutes ago, IA Bean Counter said:

Similar things were said about Robert Smith, Barry Sanders and many others.   Money isn't the #1 thing to all people.  Once you have created a good nest egg and invested well that extra year or two isn't necessary.  Maybe he was playing the reporter,  I don't think he is, and with those statement to say there is 0.0000% chance he turns down a big offer to retire . . . I would take that bet any day because the odds are all in my favor.  

I'm with you.  I think it's unlikely that Gray retires, but not impossible.  He's already unimaginably wealthy by an average person's standards.  62 million in major league salaries according to Baseball Reference, plus whatever he made in bonus money as a first round draft pick.  His future grandchildren are already set for life, barring some really bad spending habits.

Gray will be 34 next year.  He wouldn't be the first ballplayer to retire when he was still wanted.  Buster Posey would be one recent example of a player who retired when he clearly was still productive.

[Jocko87]

On 7/31/2023 at 8:11 AM, tony&rodney said:

If the Twins are to be a team of Bundy, Archer, Farmer, and Gallo types now and into the future, they will never need to part with desired players. All of those guys are or have been good professional baseball players. There are many other examples.

But they aren't. Other than Farmer they were all reclamation projects. They aren't the player type they are going for as a type, but an interim  stepping stone. Bundy and Archer and Pineda and Dobnack etc are now Lopez and Gray. Gallo and Farmer and Salano will turn into what? They are building depth in all the right places but it takes time.

[Battle ur tail off]

20 hours ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Since when does Sonny Gray swing a bat?

if you’re having trouble scoring runs, isn’t it more important to suppress opponent runs?

im not saying they shouldn’t trade Gray, I just don’t get this logic.

Sonny Gray is a top 10 starting pitcher in MLB. I’m not sure how he could get it more together or earn more run support. If anything, the Twins should go to 6 starters for a while to give them a breather

Yes, but here is the deal. They dealt hitting for pitching this offseason and now have that pitcher locked up. I think they need to trade now expiring pitching for hitting. They are not getting a guy of Aareaz caliber back right away, but a close-to ML ready RH bat that gets on base and doesn't K for one of Gray or Maeda makes sense to me. Trade one, attempt to sign the other in the offseason and if you can't, then extend the QO and get a draft pick. 

[TwinsDr2021]

11 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

What if the young guys are just better? Outside the pitching, I'm pretty sure some are. 

Which young guys are you talking about? Gordon? Larnach? Miranda? Wallner?

They already have Jeffers and Julien, nobody is talking about sitting or trading them. Lewis has been good in his limited at bats the last two years and nobody is talking about sitting (when healthy)or trading him. So it comes down to Larnach (who in 582 at bats has been Ok at best) and Wallner and those are the two people are talking about. I have seen enough of Larnach and the Twins don't seem to think Wallner is the answer.

And the next group of guys that have a legit shot of playing for the Twins this year are not young prospects. Unless people are talking about Lee and Schobel, and I am 100% behind getting them action, I wouldn't be against giving a smoking hot Prato or Severino a shot, but if they don't this year they just turn into the next old group of prospects that teams in contention usually don't throw into a lineup except as a last resort because if they stumble out of the blocks they end up back in the minors at 26 and older.

By all means trade Solano, Farmer, Kepler, Gallo, not sure they return much of anything and give guys a shot, but also trade to help shore up the pen.

But I will say this over and over, if the trade off veteran depth and bring up or play the Larnach's and Wallner's of the world and they stumble and end up calling up Stevenson, Contreras types end up not winning the division they should be and  probably will be fired.

So like I said in my initial post they should be looking to trade some guys out and bring some guys in.

 

[Twodogs]

The Twins are not just one piece away from contending for the world series.  Even if they win the central, I mean they could win a few games and break the curse but they aren't winning or going to the world series.  So I mean they could maybe find someone to help out in the bullpen a little.  But I think they should just go with what they have.  I think the problem is two fold, like I said they aren't just a piece or two away, like in the Shannon Stewart days.  They are a long ways away.  Second, with more teams actually in contention now for the playoffs, I don't think there is a lot of worthwhile trade pieces out there.  I mean 10 years ago the number of teams selling was probably close to double what it is now.  Which resulted in more talent available at the deadline.  With the lack of talent available, teams like the Padres are picking up guys like Rich Hill?  I mean at 43 he is still a serviceable MLB player, but is he going to make the difference for the Padres?  But I mean, they are probably looking at it like what else is out there?  So that is why I think the Twins should just keep pulling young guys up and waiting for guys to get healthy.  There isn't anything out on the trade market that will turn them into a contender.  

[tony&rodney]

Sure seems like Toronto would have some interest in Kyle Farmer.

[AceWrigley]

2 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

I agree, but I'd call up Keirsey straight from AA instead of Stevenson. Unless this team thinks Buxton or Lewis is going to be playing CF next season, they need to start having internal auditions for next year or they're going to be in the exact same position they were last off season. The free agent CF options are flat out awful after you get past Bellinger, who is a year-to-year wild card and probably going to command more than he should.

I think the Cubs should seriously consider resigning Bellinger; he's a really good fit for Wrigley Field.

[AceWrigley]

31 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

. . . and the Twins don't seem to think Wallner is the answer.

 

Wallner could be a real masher. Cuddyer wasn't exactly graceful in RF but played it ok. Unless Wallner has a real problem tracking balls when fielding with not much hope of improvement, I wouldn't trade him.

[nicksaviking]

8 minutes ago, AceWrigley said:

Wallner could be a real masher. Cuddyer wasn't exactly graceful in RF but played it ok. Unless Wallner has a real problem tracking balls when fielding with not much hope of improvement, I wouldn't trade him.

When Kepler is gone, I think RF will be a great spot for Wallner, just like Cuddyer. Learn the nuances of that wall and anyone can play RF in Target Field. It's really small comparatively to other stadiums.

[Irishman]

I think Twins would stay put for now.    Trade Sonny Gray would not surprise me!

[TwinsDr2021]

18 minutes ago, AceWrigley said:

Wallner could be a real masher. Cuddyer wasn't exactly graceful in RF but played it ok. Unless Wallner has a real problem tracking balls when fielding with not much hope of improvement, I wouldn't trade him.

I don't disagree he could be, and I would have had him up months ago, but the Twins didn't, he didn't come up until a last resort. If the Twins think he really only his a depth type of guy, and another team thinks he could be more, trade him is all I am saying.