Rumor: Angels Go All In, Take Ohtani Off The Market, Add Lucas Giolito and Reynaldo Lopez

[Vanimal46]

Arte Moreno can’t help himself by going for it this season. Ohtani has been taken off the trade market, and the Angels will try to make the playoffs for the first time since 2014. To bolster their postseason hopes - they're currently four games out of the final Wild Card spot - they've added Lucas Giolito and Reynaldo Lopez from the White Sox.

On the other hand, the White Sox begin their fire sale. Who else could leave their organization in the coming days?

This changes the dynamic of the trade deadline considerably. Many executives and insiders mentioned how Ohtani was holding up lower-octane trades and decisions. Now that the best baseball player has been taken off the market, expect to see the floodgates open in the coming days.

 

 

 

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[dxpavelka]

Giolito wasn't getting traded here anyway and the Angels are probably the one AL destination where his acquisition is least likely to negatively impact us.

[Seth Stohs]

Pretty much means that Shohei Ohtani isn't getting traded, right? 

Baseball Trade Values sure seems to think that the White Sox did very well in this deal. Lopez has always had great stuff ,and I'd love to see what Pete Maki and crew could do with him. Giolito's going to have more good years. He's basically heading home and maybe that gives him an idea of if he would want to stay there. 

 

[gunnarthor]

Angels farm system isn't great but those two were #2 and 3 on their prospect list. Good get for Chicago.

[Danchat]

Fangraphs had the two prospects at #3 and #9, so the return doesn't seem that high. I suppose both pitchers are hitting the free agent market so that keeps their value quite low... I am intrigued to see if the Angels can finally reach the playoffs with Trout and Ohtani.

[CRF]

That takes Ohtani off the board. 

[weitz41]

On paper that looks like a big overpay. Hope that's not a common theme this deadline.

[LewFordLives]

I don't get this from the Angels standpoint. If they were a clear playoff team, then maybe they move all their chips to the middle, but as of right now they are seven back in the division lead and four for the wild card. Those are some expensive rentals. Maybe Moreno is gonna make another attempt to sell the team.

[Vanimal46]

19 minutes ago, LewFordLives said:

I don't get this from the Angels standpoint. If they were a clear playoff team, then maybe they move all their chips to the middle, but as of right now they are seven back in the division lead and four for the wild card. Those are some expensive rentals. Maybe Moreno is gonna make another attempt to sell the team.

They don’t have much of a choice but to go for it this year. There’s no way to get fair value in a trade for the best player on the planet, even when he’s a rental. Selling Ohtani also brings a huge risk of alienating and losing their fan base. 

[whosafraidofluigirussolo]

8 hours ago, Seth Stohs said:

Giolito's going to have more good years. He's basically heading home and maybe that gives him an idea of if he would want to stay there.

This trade will make it extra fun if/when Giolito signs with the Dodgers as a free agent.

[Vanimal46]

From the White Sox perspective, I wouldn’t hesitate selling off anyone not named Luis Robert on their MLB team. Who cares if the rotation is 5 Aaron Sanchez types for the last 2 months? They’re way out of it. 

[nicksaviking]

Hopefully Chicago's next rebuild goes as successfully as their last one.

Man, they got so many high end prospects the last time they tore it down and none of them clicked at the same time. Now, the only long term pieces they have from that era is Luis Robert and an Eloy Jimenez who barely plays in the field any more and is probably a two month slump away from not having his option picked up.

The Twins were the most obvious losers of that ball de-juicing after the 2019 season, but that was clearly the same kind of roster the White Sox were going for when they traded for all of those extremely high ranked prospects.

[Nashvilletwin]

This is the type of deal that cash rich, big market teams feel they can get away with - they can trade their top prospects knowing that these prospects can be replaced by FAs.

The ChiSox just acquired two excellent long-term players with whom we will have to contend for years.  Since we cannot truly compete for a Pennant without first taking care of business in the Central, this trade is exactly a reminder of why we need to keep building our roster for the longer-term rather than depleting our prospect ranks by going all in this year with a fundamentally flawed team.

[USAFChief]

16 minutes ago, Nashvilletwin said:

This is the type of deal that cash rich, big market teams feel they can get away with - they can trade their top prospects knowing that these prospects can be replaced by FAs.

The ChiSox just acquired two excellent long-term players with whom we will have to contend for years.  Since we cannot truly compete for a Pennant without first taking care of business in the Central, this trade is exactly a reminder of why we need to keep building our roster for the longer-term rather than depleting our prospect ranks by going all in this year with a fundamentally flawed team.

"Two excellent long-term players"? Heh.

Also, aren't we first taking care of business in the central THIS year?

 

 

[Nashvilletwin]

3 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

"Two excellent long-term players"? Heh.

Also, aren't we first taking care of business in the central THIS year?

 

 

Angels #2 and #3 prospects.  They might not be as highly ranked as our ours, but think Rodriguez and Jenkins types. Should we make such a trade for another one and done rental?

The Angels are going all in - I’ll take the under that this trade puts them over the top.  But they don’t care as much, because they can buy themselves out of it. We cannot.

Sure, we are “taking care of business” in the AL central this year.  Obviously any thing can happen in the playoffs.  But IMHO, this season’s roster is not worth depleting our prospects depth via a trade like this.  Instead, it’s better we keep investing in our prospects so we build even stronger rosters and continue to “take care of business” in the Central for years to come.

[nicksaviking]

12 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

"Two excellent long-term players"? Heh.

Also, aren't we first taking care of business in the central THIS year?

 

 

Yeah, underwhelmed to say the least with what the White Sox go back.

If the Twins traded Sonny Gray for both of those guys,  the pitchforks would be out, and rightfully so.

[2wins87]

8 hours ago, Danchat said:

Fangraphs had the two prospects at #3 and #9, so the return doesn't seem that high. I suppose both pitchers are hitting the free agent market so that keeps their value quite low... I am intrigued to see if the Angels can finally reach the playoffs with Trout and Ohtani.

Gut reaction just learning about the prospects now, but if I were a White Sox fan I think I'm excited about getting Quero, though I don't think the Angels needed to push him so fast, particularly if the goal is for him to stick as a catcher, and I'm pretty lukewarm on Bush who maybe can start but could very well just be a lefty reliever.

I think Quero straight up for a Giolito rental is already a really good deal.  Lopez doesn't really move the needle much but getting a pitching prospect included is nice even if I think he's a back-end starter or reliever

[nicksaviking]

2 minutes ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Angels #2 and #3 prospects.  They might not be as highly ranked as our ours, but think Rodriguez and Jenkins types. Should we make such a trade for another one and done rental?

Emmanual Rodriguez and Walker Jenkins? I don't see it at all.

Looks more like Jose Salas and Devid Festa to me.

[USAFChief]

15 minutes ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Angels #2 and #3 prospects.  They might not be as highly ranked as our ours, but think Rodriguez and Jenkins types. Should we make such a trade for another one and done rental?

The Angels are going all in - I’ll take the under that this trade puts them over the top.  But they don’t care as much, because they can buy themselves out of it. We cannot.

Sure, we are “taking care of business” in the AL central this year.  Obviously any thing can happen in the playoffs.  But IMHO, this season’s roster is not worth depleting our prospects depth via a trade like this.  Instead, it’s better we keep investing in our prospects so we build even stronger rosters and continue to “take care of business” in the Central for years to come.

I take extreme exception to "excellent long-term players."

Long-term, probable. 

Excellent? Extremely unlikely, as with 99.9% of prospects. The last time the Sox sold off they acquired quite a haul...and as noted above have mostly losing seasons and Luis Robert to show for it. 

The most likely outcome is neither have any real impact. If one or the other turn into average or better big leaguers, good for them, good for the Sox. 

But the most likely outcome of this trade in terms of impact on the Twins is that we won't see Giolito in the September White Sox series. 

[Nashvilletwin]

3 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

I take extreme exception to "excellent long-term players."

Long-term, probable. 

Excellent? Extremely unlikely, as with 99.9% of prospects. The last time the Sox sold off they acquired quite a haul...and as noted above have mostly losing seasons and Luis Robert to show for it. 

The most likely outcome is neither have any real impact. If one or the other turn into average or better big leaguers, good for them, good for the Sox. 

But the most likely outcome of this trade in terms of impact on the Twins is that we won't see Giolito in the September White Sox series. 

You are correct - any prospect that becomes an everyday starter as a big leaguer should be viewed as an excellent outcome. It’s just really hard.  But you must admit, #2 and #3 prospects should have a higher probability of success than lower ones - even those ranked as low as Steer and CES.

Who knows?  But personally I’d rather take the prospect of facing Gio one more time late in the year with the ChiSox eliminated than the prospect of facing whatever two of Lee, Rodriguez or Jenkins become for years in the future.

But the real point of my post is that teams like the Angels can make these kinds of trades while it’s a lot riskier for franchises like the Twins.

[Jocko87]

I’m just glad this will add clarity to the market for everyone. If Ohtani was hanging over everything nothing else would happen. As a baseball fan I’d love to see the Angels make the playoffs.  

[Mike Sixel]

I understand why they are doing this, but this is not going to go well for LAA......

As for the prospects, depends on who you ask, as far as I can tell. Some outlets like the stuff on the pitcher a lot.....some don't. In any event, it is what the Sox should be doing, selling off assets. 

The central looks no more difficult next year, this FO needs to figure out the OF for the future (and put Lee at whatever position he's going to play in the majors already). 

[Vanimal46]

7 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I understand why they are doing this, but this is not going to go well for LAA......

Agreed. Over the last decade if we bet the under on Angels wins every year we would have our mortgages paid off. I don’t blame them for taking this path… No one in baseball wants to be known as the executive who traded away the modern day Babe Ruth. That’s a legacy defining move. If the Angels don’t acquire a star player, that GM isn’t getting another chance to be a GM. 

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, Vanimal46 said:

Agreed. Over the last decade if we bet the under on Angels wins every year we would have our mortgages paid off. I don’t blame them for taking this path… No one in baseball wants to be known as the executive who traded away the modern day Babe Ruth. That’s a legacy defining move. If the Angels don’t acquire a star player, that GM isn’t getting another chance to be a GM. 

People still rip Boston for trading Betts......rightly so.

[LA Vikes Fan]

I live in LA. Local media is saying that this trade makes sense IF the Angels are planning to really make a run at re-signing Ohtani and think they can re-sign Giolito. Also increases the chances of a rise in franchise value  if Moreno is willing to sell the team. Giolito is from LA and the Angels have a real chance of keeping him. The new GM actually has done a much better job of promoting younger players in key spots like Neto so they might have some money. Now if only someone would take Rendon's contract off their hands...

[Nine of twelve]

1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

But the most likely outcome of this trade in terms of impact on the Twins is that we won't see Giolito in the September White Sox series. 

Yeah, we could see him in the September Angels series instead. I'd rather have seen him with the White Sox.

[Danchat]

3 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Hopefully Chicago's next rebuild goes as successfully as their last one.

Man, they got so many high end prospects the last time they tore it down and none of them clicked at the same time. Now, the only long term pieces they have from that era is Luis Robert and an Eloy Jimenez who barely plays in the field any more and is probably a two month slump away from not having his option picked up.

The Twins were the most obvious losers of that ball de-juicing after the 2019 season, but that was clearly the same kind of roster the White Sox were going for when they traded for all of those extremely high ranked prospects.

Pretty crazy how this current form of the team had its competitive window open in 2021, and then slammed shut and now they're awful again. I thought they'd at least have a few years of relevance, but all they have left is a couple good hitters, and a pair of solid starters and that's it. I have no idea how stacked their farm system is, but I'd say their outlook going forward is quite bleak.

[Brock Beauchamp]

2 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Emmanual Rodriguez and Walker Jenkins? I don't see it at all.

Looks more like Jose Salas and Devid Festa to me.

Yes, this. The Angels farm system is

Walker Jenkins is a #1 overall pick in the draft some years and a top three pick in almost every year. The Angels don't have anything equivalent to that.

[Cap'n Piranha]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

I understand why they are doing this, but this is not going to go well for LAA......

As for the prospects, depends on who you ask, as far as I can tell. Some outlets like the stuff on the pitcher a lot.....some don't. In any event, it is what the Sox should be doing, selling off assets. 

The central looks no more difficult next year, this FO needs to figure out the OF for the future (and put Lee at whatever position he's going to play in the majors already). 

No kidding on that top point.  Go look at the Angel's schedule--after they finish their 3 games against the Motor City Kitties, they don't play another team with a losing record until NYM on August 25 (6 at TOR/ATRL, 7 home SEA/SFG, 6 at HOU/TEX, 6 home TBR/CIN), with only 2 off days.  I would not be surprised to see them go 10-15 against that slate, which could put them 10+ back in the division, and 6-7 back in the Wild Card.

Even after that, they still have a fairly challenging September with series against PHI, BAL, SEA, TBR, MIN, and TEX (although 2 series against OAK and 1 against DET helps).

All of this for a team who is building their recent optimism on a sweep of the Yankees and little else is quite bold.

[laloesch]

The Twins could have drafted Giolito in 2012 or Max Fried.  Many of the top 2012 draft picks were busts.