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Playoff bullpen


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What does the Twins pen look like come playoff time as currently built?

Duran - Hes a monster but also a rookie and will be wayyyy stretched past any load he has ever had

Jax - Has looked solid, not sure he is a real setup arm but also will be wayyy stretched past any load he has ever had

Alcala - coming back from a lengthy injury

Thielbar - solid lefty if deployed correctly

Maeda - coming back from Tommy John but has been an awesome playoff reliever in the past

Smith - old vet presence good for middle innings and tough righties

Cotton - seems like a decent middle reliever

Duffey - maybe he re finds himself?

Pagan - maybe he re finds himself?

Moran - stretched out but could be a solid rookie lefty weapon

Ober/ Archer/ Winder - whoever isn't in the rotation could be solid pen pieces

Bundy - long reliever maybe

Some rookie breaking out?  Canterino/ Cano/ Sands/ Sisk ect.

That is an insane amount of question marks and best case scenarios to put together a mediocre at best playoff pen.  Duran/ Alcala is all they really have for dominate arms and both are major question marks.  Jax is good but is getting stretched a lot.  Maeda could be a real weapon but who knows coming of TJ.  Whatever starters don't make the rotation can fill key roles but they aren't trained to be relievers and don't have back end bullpen stuff.  The rest is middle relievers and massive question marks.

They lack basically everything unless unicorns and rainbows shine upon Duran/ Alcala/ Maeda.  To be serious about winning, in the only year they will have Buxton/ Correa for sure, they need 2 if not 3 high leverage arms and will still require multiple in house guys to step up. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, ashbury said:

FalVine have approximately 34 days to earn their paychecks and sort out all these choices and find a solid core to supplement with as many trades as necessary before the deadline to not waste this competitive season.

I have been pretty supportive of the FO because I like the pitching pipeline starting to produce and realize it will take time.  But if they waste the only guaranteed Buxton/ Correa year, while having control on the division like they did to this disaster pen I am pretty much out on them.

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I was thinking about this earlier this week. Duran, Alcala, Jax, Smith, Maeda - should be locks if healthy. Lefties - Theilbar (maybe), Moran, and Coulombe (again if healthy) - take your choice. I like what Thornburg has done.  I think that Ober could be similar to Jax with an uptick in velocity for short stretches.  Questioning both Pagan and Cotton after tonight. Hopefully an acquisition or two would be in play as well. Have to admit that Duffey has looked better in last 5 outings.

Starters would be Gray, Ryan, Smeltzer and Archer with Bundy for long relief to piggyback with Archer. Also Winder should be taken into consideration.

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1 hour ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Right now, the postseason bullpen looks really impressive.

Duran
Jax
Duran
Duran
Thielbar
Jax

I'm hoping for at least half an Alcala, but that doesn't fit into the question posed by the OP.

And even then, that might just be gravy.  Not sure how much he'll be able to be relied upon either.  Same with Maeda.

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Playoffs???  Playoffs??? Right now they are just trying to win a series against a supposedly weak Central opponent. Did you check the box score last night? If they lose this afternoon, thus losing the series, they have a lot of work ahead to make the playoffs. If the starters continue to go no more than 4-5 innings the bull pen will resemble the walking dead by September never mind October. I'm sure Ball Delli has a master plan for the entire duration of the season. By the way, that is what the bull pen has become; a Baseball Delli that is gobbled up every game.

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11 minutes ago, Number3 said:

Playoffs???  Playoffs??? Right now they are just trying to win a series against a supposedly weak Central opponent. Did you check the box score last night? If they lose this afternoon, thus losing the series, they have a lot of work ahead to make the playoffs. If the starters continue to go no more than 4-5 innings the bull pen will resemble the walking dead by September never mind October. I'm sure Ball Delli has a master plan for the entire duration of the season. By the way, that is what the bull pen has become; a Baseball Delli that is gobbled up every game.

What exactly is Baldelli supposed to do? He has 1.5 good relievers. Is he supposed to blow their arms out by the Fourth of July?

While I disagree with many individual decisions Rocco has made, I put 95% of the blame here on the front office, who have completely and utterly failed the manager by giving him 1.5 good options, both of which were backed into in May. Imagine what this bullpen would look like if Jax and Duran hadn't stepped forward.

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Alcala might go a long way to helping this pen.  He was meant to be an integral piece.

I think it's time to put Jax into more high leverage spots, but people should be ready for that to go poorly as well.  

It's worth pointing out that Theilbar is pretty much who they need him to be.  Duffy and Pagan need lower leverage spots.  Because of that fail, they need at least one, probably two, guys to help give this team a boost.  

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6 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

Alcala might go a long way to helping this pen.  He was meant to be an integral piece.

I think it's time to put Jax into more high leverage spots, but people should be ready for that to go poorly as well.  

It's worth pointing out that Theilbar is pretty much who they need him to be.  Duffy and Pagan need lower leverage spots.  Because of that fail, they need at least one, probably two, guys to help give this team a boost.  

Alcala could be a god-send to this bullpen.

I'd cut either Duffey or Pagan when a new piece is acquired. The front office has placed a handful of albatrosses in this bullpen, no one can manage late-game situations if everyone is terrified to use four guys in a close situation.

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25 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

Alcala might go a long way to helping this pen.  He was meant to be an integral piece.

I think it's time to put Jax into more high leverage spots, but people should be ready for that to go poorly as well.  

It's worth pointing out that Theilbar is pretty much who they need him to be.  Duffy and Pagan need lower leverage spots.  Because of that fail, they need at least one, probably two, guys to help give this team a boost.  

Found this stat by Matthew Taylor interesting about Jax:

I think you’re spot on. It’s time to give him more high leverage opportunities, but brace yourselves if it doesn’t go well. There’s a reason why his stats look really clean right now. 

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46 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

What exactly is Baldelli supposed to do? He has 1.5 good relievers. Is he supposed to blow their arms out by the Fourth of July?

 

Use his starting pitchers. He knows that his bullpen sucks. Guess a few guys are gonna have to pitch 100-110 pitches. It's simple. I have 5 good ballplayers on my basketball team but my bench is terrible. Those 5 are gonna have to play most the minutes or we are gonna lose. 

 

You are 100% right though about the FO. They haven't given him much to work with and they are going to have to bail themselves out of this mess and quick or this season will go into a tailspin.

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36 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

Alcala might go a long way to helping this pen.  He was meant to be an integral piece.

I think it's time to put Jax into more high leverage spots, but people should be ready for that to go poorly as well.  

It's worth pointing out that Theilbar is pretty much who they need him to be.  Duffy and Pagan need lower leverage spots.  Because of that fail, they need at least one, probably two, guys to help give this team a boost.  

Do you think that Alcala or Maeda can be one or two of those pieces? It's hard for me to see the team trading enough of the prospects to get more than one high leverage arm. I think we need at least 2 more. My thought is trade for Daniel Robertson of the Cubs first. He's got playoff experience and can close well, and he's 37 so maybe one solid to good prospect can get the job done. Baseball Trade Values says either Sands or Encarnacion Strand gets you Robertson PLUS either Martin, Givens or Brandon Hughes with the Twins still on a slight overpay. Same for AJ Puk and Trevino, although they have Trevino as a negative trade value this year. One of Sands or Encarnacion Strand also gets you Bard from the Rockies. That's paying a lot but getting us what we need. 

I have another bizarre thought. Why not put Bundy in the bullpen and Winder as the 5th starter. Good bullpen work is either high octane controllable stuff like Duran or an ability to pitch emotional control and a high leverage mentality. Bundy has to know that he's the odd man out of the rotation at some point and probably won't get starter money next year. Put him in the bullpen and give him high leverage innings. He's been there before and may have the high leverage mentality and emotional control that appears to be lacking in Pagan and Duffy. Why not? It's worth a shot. 

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What is the status of Trevor Rosenthal? A free agent who hasn’t pitched for a year plus because of injury, but would cost us only cash to try out. He can’t be any worse than Pagan. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but Duffey does seem better in last five outings. I wouldn’t pitch him more than one inning at a time, but right now I’d trust him more than Pagan. 

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I'm no Rocco fan, but he's severely limited in what options he has in the pen. That's the FO's fault. They keep trying to do the "build a pitching staff and build a bullpen" method on the cheap...year after year, and it just doesn't work. There's no doubt they have to make a few moves to shore up the bullpen. Whether or not they actually do it remains to be seen. You don't have to be a genius to see that Pagan and Duffey have failed miserably. They're no better than mop up guys right now. They're worthless. We basically have Duran, Jax, and T-Bar, and not much else. We've got a whole 2nd half of the season coming up and the risk of burning those guys out is very real. That means trusting and giving innings to the rest of the bullpen stiffs, or making a couple deals. I guess it's possible to bring up some of the arms in the minors, but that's real risky too. I'm not smart enough to know what the right answer is, but we just can't compete with the big boys with our current bullpen arms. 

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By the time the playoffs come around, I am anticipating Archer being moved to the pen. He has the high octane stuff and mojo to be an effective reliever when we move to a 3 or 4 man rotation. 

Duran, Alcala (cross fingers), Archer, Jax, Thielbar, Smith, 2 trade acquisitions would be a nice start to a playoff shutdown bullpen. 

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8 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

By the time the playoffs come around, I am anticipating Archer being moved to the pen. He has the high octane stuff and mojo to be an effective reliever when we move to a 3 or 4 man rotation. 

Duran, Alcala (cross fingers), Archer, Jax, Thielbar, Smith, 2 trade acquisitions would be a nice start to a playoff shutdown bullpen. 

I would wonder if Archer’s arm would be able to go back to back days as all relievers need to at various points in the season. He also has completely lost the strike zone in a few of his appearances this year. Control troubles are magnified in high leverage.

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Jax fits his role really well. He can come in mid game, put out a fire and stay for another inning or two. We need him in that role.

They need to acquire at least one pitcher immediately to share the high leverage work with Duran. They need to add another by the deadline.

The Twins need to pay up and acquire the best reliever available  at the deadline and another in the top five that were available.

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20 hours ago, RaoulDuke said:

What does the Twins pen look like come playoff time as currently built?

Duran - Hes a monster but also a rookie and will be wayyyy stretched past any load he has ever had

Jax - Has looked solid, not sure he is a real setup arm but also will be wayyy stretched past any load he has ever had

Alcala - coming back from a lengthy injury

Thielbar - solid lefty if deployed correctly

Maeda - coming back from Tommy John but has been an awesome playoff reliever in the past

Smith - old vet presence good for middle innings and tough righties

Cotton - seems like a decent middle reliever

Duffey - maybe he re finds himself?

Pagan - maybe he re finds himself?

Moran - stretched out but could be a solid rookie lefty weapon

Ober/ Archer/ Winder - whoever isn't in the rotation could be solid pen pieces

Bundy - long reliever maybe

Some rookie breaking out?  Canterino/ Cano/ Sands/ Sisk ect.

That is an insane amount of question marks and best case scenarios to put together a mediocre at best playoff pen.  Duran/ Alcala is all they really have for dominate arms and both are major question marks.  Jax is good but is getting stretched a lot.  Maeda could be a real weapon but who knows coming of TJ.  Whatever starters don't make the rotation can fill key roles but they aren't trained to be relievers and don't have back end bullpen stuff.  The rest is middle relievers and massive question marks.

They lack basically everything unless unicorns and rainbows shine upon Duran/ Alcala/ Maeda.  To be serious about winning, in the only year they will have Buxton/ Correa for sure, they need 2 if not 3 high leverage arms and will still require multiple in house guys to step up. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm afraid this won't be a playoff team with this bullpen.

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Jax is one of the only pitchers the Twins have who has pitched 150 innings. He needs to stretch and see if he can, indeed, consistently go thru a lineup at least once.

Alcala would be a plus.

You would add Winder to the mix. Maeda would also be back, hopefully.

Moran and Duran will hopefully still be strong.

Thielbar could still be an option. 

Can the Twins trade for a bonifide closer? We miss Rogers more and more each day, it seems.

 

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