Why Didn't the Twins Go Full Sell-Off?

[Richie the Rally Goat]

10 minutes ago, LA Vikes Fan said:

While this offseason has been a snoozefest, can we jettison the overhyped and incorrect notion that we traded away "a great, cost-controlled bullpen"? We traded away 1, maybe 2, good relievers - Johan Duran and maaybe Danny Coulombe depending on your definition of great or even "good". By the way, Coulombe is so coveted that no one has signed him yet for 2026. For Duran we got arguably our 2nd or 3rd best starting pitching prospect in Abel (behind Matthews and Bradley maybe), and a catching prospect who's top 5 in our system. What? What about all those other great guys we traded? Well . . .

Griffin Jax, he of the 4.50 ERA with an 0 for 5 save record with the Twins in 2025 who "improved" to a 3.60 ERA with Tampa. "Great"? Not a chance. Good? In 2024, yes, he was. Other than that, in 2022 and 2023, he was mediocre at best and in 2025 he was bad. For him we got Taj Bradley who may actually be an MLB starting pitcher, but a real crapshoot. Both Jax and Bradley are crapshoots for 2026 and beyond. 

Louie Varland? Hmm, ERAs of 7.61 (2024), 4.63 (2023), and 3.81 (2022), but a very good first half 2.02 in 2025 in 49 innings for the Twins, followed by a robust and more in line with previous norms 4.94 ERA in 24 innings with the Jays. "Great". NO. "Good"? Yes for half a season in 2025, but mediocre to lousy for the other 3.5 full MLB seasons. For him we got a top LH starting pitcher prospect in Rojas and a flyer with potential OF in Roden. Hmmm, seems like a good deal.   

Ah, what about Brock Stewart? Let's see. 2020-2022, injured, not in MLB. In 2023, 27 innings very good innings (0.65 ERA), arm trouble, gone for the season. In 2024, 15 lousy innings (5.17 ERA), arm trouble, gone for the season. In 2025, now we're talking, 34 innings of 2.38 ERA, traded, 4 innings of 4.91 ERA for the Dodgers (who think we traded them an injured guy), arm trouble, gone for the season, shoulder surgery, "might" be back by August. That's probably good since Brock is only good for about 25-35 innings a season so why have him before August anyway. Got James Outman, not good, but hey, you trade not good you get not good.  

That's it. So let's stop whining that we had a great bullpen that management traded away and now we're building off the scrap heap because they are so stupid. We didn't trade away a great bullpen in 2025 - we didn't have a great bullpen in 2025. We had an OK bullpen in 2025 that looked better than it was because of Duran (and to a certain extent, Sands and Coulombe). Watch, this year's bullpen will be pretty much how last year's would have looked without Duran.  Let's retire the mindless trope that we traded away a great bullpen. We didn't because we didn't have one to trade away. 

Filtered to as a reliever before 8/1. the Twins were butchers in the infield last year.

[NYCTK]

1 minute ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

the Twins were butchers in the infield last year.

Well thankfully that has been addressed...

[bunsen82]

21 minutes ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

The two months not stocked are what they have now. If this bullpen exceeds expectations it will be the 29th bullpen in the MLB even after Rogers.

This team was 23rd in runs scored last year. No Correa, no Bader, and the husk of Josh Bell and his .1 WAR backfills Ty France and his .7 WAR.

its absolutely baffling why they didn’t go scorched earth.

Because they think this year is a new year,  and the fans here have shown they wouldn't tolerate a total teardown.   If you want an honest answer.   When you have multiple people pissed off even with decent signings,  @USAFChief laughing at most of my posts - its clear that people aren't willing to even give them the benefit of the doubt.  

This won't be the 29th bullpen,  it just won't.   I personally think our players gave up last season.  Jax specifically,  Correa another.   When key players give up you need a change.   Correa was replacement level or below that for us last year.   I will take Lee over him straight up.   I know laugh now.   Even still he is a placeholder for Culpepper,  does he make it up in 2026.   Jenkins and Rodriguez are the potential energy changers for 2026 in my opinion.   

People are betting this team doesn't win 60 wins.   You know I could take all the bets here,  then take the actually over under which is 73.5 right now - before any other moves.    Which may bump us to 76 and then I can win the arbitrage. Effectively as Twins fans we are an overly negative bunch right now.    

Our hitters have consistently underperformed.  I do thing better messaging or different points of view is worth trying out and can be effective.  Maybe Lewis starts listening and stops trying to pull everything like Correa.   Maybe Lee starts to feel comfortable.  Yes its maybe,  but as bad as things didn't go our way last year, there is a very real possibility things do go this year.  As long as Keaschall continues to perform,  I think the long term rebuild is still in play.  

Ive said it before I rooted for the Twins in the late 90's,  I knew day in day out we were going to lose.   This is still a pretty good team.  You have lots of starting depth,  we will be running out an ok lineup - with some potential upside.      I can see a .500 team with an outside chance at a divisional title.  Alas we will see where the chips fall.   

See this is the type of year, if I was a betting man that I would bet for them to win the division.   

As to the bullpen -  the end of the season is not what we have now.  

We have - Rogers, Orze, Funderburk Topa and Sands - that is fundamentally better than what we end with.   We still have 3 more openings for a signing trade,  a AAA signing who outperforms expectations,  or a converted starter.  How does this look if Festa or Matthews converts and is able to handle the positions like Jax, Varland or Duran before him.  We have lots of arms to potentially throw at the problem,  more than we ever did in 2017 to 2021 -  so yes I am cautiously optimistic that this group will perform better than most expect and I am saying in the 11-20 rankings.  Why, you will inevitable have bullpens that under perform or have injuries or teams where the get burned up or give up - that is 4-5.  We should have a solid starting staff,  plus the AAA invitees we should be able to run up and down including players like ohl or adams if we need to give some players a rest.     

[LA Vikes Fan]

1 hour ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Filtered to as a reliever before 8/1. the Twins were butchers in the infield last year.

I hear you although I don't think it is enough to make Varland or Jax  good, and obviously doesn't help Stewart pitch more than half a season.  I do completely agree we need to improve our defense, which is why I keep advocating for Martin to play every day and really help shore up the OF defense. I'd really like to see us trade Larnach or Wallner for a relief pitcher/good prospect so that one of them can be more of a DH and we can get a good OF in RF to go with Buxton and Martin. 

I don't know what we do in the IF, particularly at SS. Maybe Lee comes back as Greg Gagne Lite after an offseason of flexibility training or maybe Culpeper is the answer. All I know is that unless that IF gets better with the glove, pitching for the Twins is going to be a rough go.   

[LA Vikes Fan]

1 hour ago, bunsen82 said:

Because they think this year is a new year,  and the fans here have shown they wouldn't tolerate a total teardown.   If you want an honest answer.   When you have multiple people pissed off even with decent signings,  @USAFChief laughing at most of my posts - its clear that people aren't willing to even give them the benefit of the doubt.  

This won't be the 29th bullpen,  it just won't.   I personally think our players gave up last season.  Jax specifically,  Correa another.   When key players give up you need a change.   Correa was replacement level or below that for us last year.   I will take Lee over him straight up.   I know laugh now.   Even still he is a placeholder for Culpepper,  does he make it up in 2026.   Jenkins and Rodriguez are the potential energy changers for 2026 in my opinion.   

People are betting this team doesn't win 60 wins.   You know I could take all the bets here,  then take the actually over under which is 73.5 right now - before any other moves.    Which may bump us to 76 and then I can win the arbitrage. Effectively as Twins fans we are an overly negative bunch right now.    

Our hitters have consistently underperformed.  I do thing better messaging or different points of view is worth trying out and can be effective.  Maybe Lewis starts listening and stops trying to pull everything like Correa.   Maybe Lee starts to feel comfortable.  Yes its maybe,  but as bad as things didn't go our way last year, there is a very real possibility things do go this year.  As long as Keaschall continues to perform,  I think the long term rebuild is still in play.  

Ive said it before I rooted for the Twins in the late 90's,  I knew day in day out we were going to lose.   This is still a pretty good team.  You have lots of starting depth,  we will be running out an ok lineup - with some potential upside.      I can see a .500 team with an outside chance at a divisional title.  Alas we will see where the chips fall.   

See this is the type of year, if I was a betting man that I would bet for them to win the division.   

As to the bullpen -  the end of the season is not what we have now.  

We have - Rogers, Orze, Funderburk Topa and Sands - that is fundamentally better than what we end with.   We still have 3 more openings for a signing trade,  a AAA signing who outperforms expectations,  or a converted starter.  How does this look if Festa or Matthews converts and is able to handle the positions like Jax, Varland or Duran before him.  We have lots of arms to potentially throw at the problem,  more than we ever did in 2017 to 2021 -  so yes I am cautiously optimistic that this group will perform better than most expect and I am saying in the 11-20 rankings.  Why, you will inevitable have bullpens that under perform or have injuries or teams where the get burned up or give up - that is 4-5.  We should have a solid starting staff,  plus the AAA invitees we should be able to run up and down including players like ohl or adams if we need to give some players a rest.     

I think you're a little optimistic but I do agree this is more than a 60 win team as is. I think Vegas is right as usual, the Twins are a 70-78 win team as is. We could become a 80-85 win team with another good BP signing and/or improvement or a full year of their good half year last year from at least 3 of the young guys - Keashall, Lewis, Martin, Wallner, Lee, Roden, Culpeper, GG, Emma, Jenkins in order of likelihood. This team is nowhere near as bad as the teams of the 90s. Those were bad teams. All you have to do is remember one thing abut those teams - Ron Coomer, All Star. 

[old nurse]

3 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Exactly.  The Brewers are more than contenders and they move their top starter whom they know they could never resign for two top 100 prospects, both of whom are likely to contribute this season. So they lose one year of Peralta and get TWELVE years from the other two.  Smart move by a smart, much, much better run organization.

The Nationals also traded their top starter to the Rangers for a haul which included their #2 prospect - a highly regarded 3B who was the #12 overall pick last year.

Meanwhile the completely brain dead, misguided Twins who for some reason think they can contend with what is arguably one of the bottom three rosters in MLB sit on their hands.  Five innings of two run ball twice a week from Ryan and Lopez isn’t going to cut it.

Let’s all wait and see if their gamble turns out or if they end up blowing the value of Ryan and Lopez.  Sadly, my money is on the latter, especially with the work stoppage coming next year.

Check out hoe the Burnes trade worked out this year for the Brewers before you get too excited about what a team gets back in trade 

[Nashvilletwin]

4 hours ago, twinstalker said:

I thought one reason they didn't trade Ryan is because they'd obviously get more in the offseason.  I'm guessing that hasn't happened.  These trades for Peralta and Gore are, imo, not being won by the team getting the prospects.  

Still, there are two seasons of team control left, and as soon as a team is willing to offer an incredible prospect, the Twins need to pull the trigger.  I'm just not sure the Twins can identify an incredible prospect.  I have no doubt they know one when one is offered to them, but I also have little doubt that they think some who are not incredible are incredible.

After BA's top 9 (Griffin, McGonigle, Wetherholt, Made, Jenkins, Clark, Emerson, McLean, Basallo) and the two others: 12 De Vries and 16 Walcott, a team really has to understand what to look for, because these ranking services absolutely do not get it right when they really should.

Milwaukee got 71 Jett Williams and 81 Brandon Sproat, good prospects for sure, not great, but you really want more for Ryan or a healthy Lopez  You want to get someone special who's a much higher ranked prospect or a seriously underrated prospect like 86 Nate George with 72 Trey Gibson from the Orioles.

George > Jett

Gibson > Sproat

Or a big time solo prospect like 25 Kade Anderson with a lesser one like Seattle's #7 prospect C Luke Stevenson, the 35th player taken in 2025 (out of UNC).

Why should we expect more for Ryan and Lopez than what the Brewers got?  We should not over estimate the value of our players (the TD faithful also think Jeffers is going to get us a legitimate controllable immediate starter - unlikely).

If you think you can compete, then maybe you roll the dice.  But getting those two players from the Mets is WAY better than a full season of Ryan in 2026 when we might win 75 games and a half season of 2027.  The Brewers won the most games in MLB last year and still traded their #1.  Both the players received are expected to contribute at the big league level this year and are controllable for SIX more years. The Mets might feel they win that trade, but the Brewers feel they win it too. 

We’d be lucky to get that deal for either Ryan or Lopez.  Prediction - what we end up with for both of them will not be as good. 

[Nashvilletwin]

2 hours ago, old nurse said:

Check out hoe the Burnes trade worked out this year for the Brewers before you get too excited about what a team gets back in trade 

So you keep Peralta and get nothing for him?  That’s not how a smart, well run franchise like the Brewers operates.  They build value and then realize it as all small market teams should do. Sure, some trades may not work out, but they know 100% Peralta is gone at year end.

So we get to watch Ryan and Lopez pitch twice a week if healthy and finish the season with decent ERAs but losing records on a 75 win team? Its a strategy, but so is building for a true contender with a solid cheap controllable core in ‘28 post the lockout. 

[old nurse]

3 minutes ago, Nashvilletwin said:

So you keep Peralta and get nothing for him?  That’s not how a smart, well run franchise like the Brewers operates.  They build value and then realize it as all small market teams should do. Sure, some trades may not work out, but they know 100% Peralta is gone at year end.

So we get to watch Ryan and Lopez pitch twice a week if healthy and finish the season with decent ERAs but losing records on a 75 win team? It’s a strategy, but so is building for a true contender with a solid cheap controllable core in ‘28 post the lockout. 

Yup. DL Hall has done a wonderful job of replacing Burnes in the rotation. Ortiz just does everything Adames does, 

[NYCTK]

10 minutes ago, old nurse said:

Yup. DL Hall has done a wonderful job of replacing Burnes in the rotation. Ortiz just does everything Adames does, 

They were both contributing players on one of the best teams in baseball AFTER Burnes would have been long gone. 

You could try to make the argument that a compensation pick would be preferable, but it's not like that trade hurt them. Obviously. 

I think you're right that they should have gotten more for Burnes. They got more for Peralta, but then again, they did have to package him with another pitcher. 

[old nurse]

6 hours ago, NYCTK said:

They were both contributing players on one of the best teams in baseball AFTER Burnes would have been long gone. 

You could try to make the argument that a compensation pick would be preferable, but it's not like that trade hurt them. Obviously. 

I think you're right that they should have gotten more for Burnes. They got more for Peralta, but then again, they did have to package him with another pitcher. 

It is not the they should have gotten more, it is more that people here think that the team will get something great in return. The Twins have players that have had years like Ortiz has had, these pages call for those players to be dumped. 

[Doctor Wu]

7 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

the TD faithful also think Jeffers is going to get us a legitimate controllable immediate starter - unlikely

A starter?! I think most of us were/are hoping for a good arm for the bullpen. 

[Doctor Wu]

Interesting article, but perhaps a bit premature? Still a lot of off-season left, and I suspect the Twins may still swing a trade or two. Just too many pitchers challenging for spots in the starting rotation. They either are turned into relief pitchers, sent down to AAA (for those who still have options), or we trade them. Unless we want to start the season with a 6-man rotation. Hey, why not?

[JDubs]

13 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

The Nationals also traded their top starter to the Rangers for a haul which included their #2 prospect - a highly regarded 3B who was the #12 overall pick last year.

Yeah man, Twins should definitely model themselves after a notoriously stable and well-run franchise like the Nationals

[dxpavelka]

I know it's difficult for the folks who run and, for the most part, follow, this site to contemplate but it IS possible that the glass, just MIGHT be half full.

[Major League Ready]

16 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Exactly.  The Brewers are more than contenders and they move their top starter whom they know they could never resign for two top 100 prospects, both of whom are likely to contribute this season. So they lose one year of Peralta and get TWELVE years from the other two.  Smart move by a smart, much, much better run organization.

If the Mets were willing to give up Williams and Sproat  for 1 year of Peralta, what would they have given for 2 years of Ryan.  Williams probably still headlines.  Do they get Tong instead of Sproat or could they have gotten Reimer or Clifford added.  I would do the deal for Williams / Sproat and Reimer and felt pretty good about it.   Now imagine adding the 3rd pick next year and whatever we could get for Lopez.   How do you like our future in that scenario?

[Richie the Rally Goat]

2 hours ago, Doctor Wu said:

Interesting article, but perhaps a bit premature? Still a lot of off-season left, and I suspect the Twins may still swing a trade or two. Just too many pitchers challenging for spots in the starting rotation. They either are turned into relief pitchers, sent down to AAA (for those who still have options), or we trade them. Unless we want to start the season with a 6-man rotation. Hey, why not?

It’s Twinsfest weekend, pitchers and catchers report in a month. Time’s not out, but it’s too late to swing a radical franchise altering trade because there isn’t time to make additional moves.

It’s marginal thinking time, not rebuilding the core time.

this very flawed team is likely what we’ll see on opening day.

[Riverbrian]

I am optimistic about our rotation. With Ryan, Lopez, Ober, and multiple options with what appears to be very good stuff. I think the rotation can keep us in ball games, where offensive improvement can win us games. 

The Pirates are looking at a strong rotation and there is reason to hope in Pittsburgh because of that rotation. The Rangers just acquired McKenzie Gore to give them a strong rotation. It provides the Rangers fans a reason to hope in 2026. The Reds rotation looks pretty solid... the offense is where they need to pick it up. 

If I squint... Yes I'm squinting. I can see the starting staff serving as justification for this attempt to go for it in 2026. 

However, the bullpens are going to erase some of that optimism that the starting staffs provide for the Rangers, Pirates, Reds and Twins. 

Here's the thing though. You need to cover approximately 1440 Innings during the course of a season. About 600 of those innings are covered by relievers. Focusing on a closer and a couple of set up guys isn't going to be enough. A strong starting rotation only gets you a little over half way there. 

So with a bullpen that has the potential to negate starting optimism. This thing is going to turn right back to the offense being the thing that needs to bring it home. The Rangers, the Pirates, The Reds and our Twins will need an offense that can provide some cushion for questionable bullpens that are works in progress and still needing experimentation to get right. 

The bullpen and the offensive questions suggest to me... that this off-season is the perfect time to do a little restructure.  That's just one reason... however, the biggest reason that this off-season is the perfect time do a little reset is this:  

The Twins are going to have to transition to a different model eventually. It needs to be done today or it will need to be done tomorrow but it needs to be done. With the bullpen and offensive questions. Now seems to be the perfect time to transition into a Milwaukee, Cleveland type model. 

I get push back when I say that the Twins operate more like Philadelphia than they operate like Milwaukee does.  

They need to transition from trying to be Philadelphia with significantly less money to work with... to trying to be a Milwaukee with more money to work with. 

This transition could start right now. Flood the the roster with youth in 2026. Cash in Joe Ryan's trade value at his  highest value. Trade Jeffers before he walks for nothing like the Brewers traded Peralta before he walks for nothing. Land a young SS and a young 1B to add to the future of this franchise.

This transition has to happen. The budget is why it has to happen. I'm not going to wait around for a new owner to come in and start spending 200 million on payroll. It's not going to happen... I don't care if Musk or Bezos buys the team. The Twins will never be at payroll range where they can comfortably land big fish in free agency.

Unless they are able to consistently produce affordable young talent in numbers. Free Agency will never be our friend because the lack of affordable young talent will continually eat the budget space leaving our free agent shopping to the... not moving the needle that much aisle".   

If they traded Joe Ryan for a young 1B. They wouldn't need Bell, If they punted the catcher position. A couple of defensive guys cheap. They wouldn't need Caratini or Jeffers. That's 14 million to spend on a bigger free agent. Add the 12 million due Ryan and Jeffers and they have 26 million to spend on a better class of free agent and payroll is still around 100 million. If payroll climbs back to let's say 130 million... Now you can spend 56 million on free agents. 

Starting the transition right now. Whatever happens in 2026... happens but staffing in 2027 will be a little less daunting because we will have some additional position player holes filled by some young players stepping up in 2026. Some won't... Some will. Add a couple more Keaschall type young players to the mix and you have less holes... less question marks. Our young pitchers getting some experience some succeeding... some failing but fewer question marks and a more concise shopping list.  

We could get this thing down to a few holes for the 2027 roster and 50 million to spend. The Brewers and Cleveland will not be able to keep up with that. We can do it better then them. We will never be able to do what Philadelphia does...  better than they do it.., Never. 

We can't make free agency work for us unless we make development work for us.      

The transition has to happen at some point. No better time then the present. 

 

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

It’s Twinsfest weekend, pitchers and catchers report in a month. Time’s not out, but it’s too late to swing a radical franchise altering trade because there isn’t time to make additional moves.

It’s marginal thinking time, not rebuilding the core time.

this very flawed team is likely what we’ll see on opening day.

This is a really important point you are making. 

They are probably a little pot committed right now. They are going for it. 

They've spent a large chunk of the money they supposedly have to spend. Bell and Caratini is the game plan. 

Trading Ryan to the Giants for Eldridge now makes Bell at 7M almost unnecessary. 

Regardless of what I think they should have done. The time to start heading down that path was before they signed Bell. 

Now that Bell and Caratini are in the yard. Any remaining moves this off-season need to be in support of those moves and the direction they are trying to go in 2026. 

 

[Hubie29]

Forget it. Enjoy your state!

[Cris E]

16 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

The Brewers won the most games in MLB last year and still traded their #1.  Both the players received are expected to contribute at the big league level this year and are controllable for SIX more years. The Mets might feel they win that trade, but the Brewers feel they win it too. 

The Brewers were comfortable making that trade because they were much closer to being a complete team than these Twins, and the removal of part of their rotation was proportionally less damaging because the distance back to being a contender was so much shorter. 

[Major League Ready]

22 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Why should we expect more for Ryan and Lopez than what the Brewers got?  We should not over estimate the value of our players (the TD faithful also think Jeffers is going to get us a legitimate controllable immediate starter - unlikely).

If you think you can compete, then maybe you roll the dice.  But getting those two players from the Mets is WAY better than a full season of Ryan in 2026 when we might win 75 games and a half season of 2027.  The Brewers won the most games in MLB last year and still traded their #1.  Both the players received are expected to contribute at the big league level this year and are controllable for SIX more years. The Mets might feel they win that trade, but the Brewers feel they win it too. 

We’d be lucky to get that deal for either Ryan or Lopez.  Prediction - what we end up with for both of them will not be as good. 

IDK about Lopez because there might be some questions about his health, but don't you think the Mets would have given a little more for two years or Ryan over 1 year of Peralta?

[Linus]

My theory, which is purely speculative, is that Falvey got Joe Pohlad to green light a rebuild beginning at last seasons trade deadline. The ensuing bad publicity caused the Twins to reconsider to the point that Joe was replaced with Tom who was charged with trying to keep the sinking ship afloat. Hence the we are going to try and be a contender. I believe that was purely messaging as Tom admitted that now wasn’t the right time to invest in higher payroll. Bottom line is that they are not making the proper baseball moves (ie true rebuild) just to try and survive a PR and ticket sales problem. My view is this is another example of winning not being a true priority with the Pohlads. 

[KirbyDome89]

23 hours ago, LA Vikes Fan said:

While this offseason has been a snoozefest, can we jettison the overhyped and incorrect notion that we traded away "a great, cost-controlled bullpen"? We traded away 1, maybe 2, good relievers - Johan Duran and maaybe Danny Coulombe depending on your definition of great or even "good". By the way, Coulombe is so coveted that no one has signed him yet for 2026. For Duran we got arguably our 2nd or 3rd best starting pitching prospect in Abel (behind Matthews and Bradley maybe), and a catching prospect who's top 5 in our system. What? What about all those other great guys we traded? Well . . .

Griffin Jax, he of the 4.50 ERA with an 0 for 5 save record with the Twins in 2025 who "improved" to a 3.60 ERA with Tampa. "Great"? Not a chance. Good? In 2024, yes, he was. Other than that, in 2022 and 2023, he was mediocre at best and in 2025 he was bad. For him we got Taj Bradley who may actually be an MLB starting pitcher, but a real crapshoot. Both Jax and Bradley are crapshoots for 2026 and beyond. 

Louie Varland? Hmm, ERAs of 7.61 (2024), 4.63 (2023), and 3.81 (2022), but a very good first half 2.02 in 2025 in 49 innings for the Twins, followed by a robust and more in line with previous norms 4.94 ERA in 24 innings with the Jays. "Great". NO. "Good"? Yes for half a season in 2025, but mediocre to lousy for the other 3.5 full MLB seasons. For him we got a top LH starting pitcher prospect in Rojas and a flyer with potential OF in Roden. Hmmm, seems like a good deal.   

Ah, what about Brock Stewart? Let's see. 2020-2022, injured, not in MLB. In 2023, 27 innings very good innings (0.65 ERA), arm trouble, gone for the season. In 2024, 15 lousy innings (5.17 ERA), arm trouble, gone for the season. In 2025, now we're talking, 34 innings of 2.38 ERA, traded, 4 innings of 4.91 ERA for the Dodgers (who think we traded them an injured guy), arm trouble, gone for the season, shoulder surgery, "might" be back by August. That's probably good since Brock is only good for about 25-35 innings a season so why have him before August anyway. Got James Outman, not good, but hey, you trade not good you get not good.  

That's it. So let's stop whining that we had a great bullpen that management traded away and now we're building off the scrap heap because they are so stupid. We didn't trade away a great bullpen in 2025 - we didn't have a great bullpen in 2025. We had an OK bullpen in 2025 that looked better than it was because of Duran (and to a certain extent, Sands and Coulombe). Watch, this year's bullpen will be pretty much how last year's would have looked without Duran.  Let's retire the mindless trope that we traded away a great bullpen. We didn't because we didn't have one to trade away. 

Eh, it was cost controlled. I don't think that's debatable. Duran and Jax were early in arbitration and Varland was (and still is) making league minimum. Coulombe and Stewart weren't making a dent. 

That's a rough take on Jax. The guy was elite in 2024. He had bad ERA with the Twins last year (4.50) but he also rocked a 2.03 FIP so I'll let you do the math on that. His 2022 and 2023 seasons might not have been spectacular, but they're solid at the very least. This current bullpen would kill for a pitcher of his caliber. If the Twins signed a Jax clone this board would be overjoyed. 

Varland returned a top LH pitching prospect? Top of what? Rojas is top 10 within the Twins system but that doesn't mean much. He's eclipsed 80 IP once in 4-5 years. I think Varland was a little overrated because of the MN ties, but he was undeniably good for the Twins last season, and league minimum for multiple years is a big deal. 

Stewart? Whatever. He was never healthy, and some fans struggled to realize that. That said I'd take an injured Stewart on the IL + an open 40 man spot over Outman being absolutely worthless yet retained because this FO can't/won't admit defeat. 

I wouldn't call the 2025 pen great but they moved their top 4 arms (5 if you count Stewart when healthy) The Duran gap isn't getting filled, but they've done borderline nothing to address the other holes at the top as well. Sands made the pen look better last year? Huh? I think the whining is justified. 

[Vanimal46]

On 1/22/2026 at 5:28 PM, bunsen82 said:

Because they think this year is a new year,  and the fans here have shown they wouldn't tolerate a total teardown.

I can only speak for me but I’m pissed we didn’t complete the job on the rebuild. Keeping Ryan, Lopez, Buxton, Jeffers etc is a complete waste of time for them, and the fans. Once they depleted the entire bullpen in July 2025, and Falvey’s philosophy to not spend real money on RP (which I agree with BTW), it became clear to me to trade everyone else. 

[TL]

On 1/22/2026 at 5:03 PM, Nashvilletwin said:

Exactly.  The Brewers are more than contenders and they move their top starter whom they know they could never resign for two top 100 prospects, both of whom are likely to contribute this season. So they lose one year of Peralta and get TWELVE years from the other two.  Smart move by a smart, much, much better run organization.

The Nationals also traded their top starter to the Rangers for a haul which included their #2 prospect - a highly regarded 3B who was the #12 overall pick last year.

Meanwhile the completely brain dead, misguided Twins who for some reason think they can contend with what is arguably one of the bottom three rosters in MLB sit on their hands.  Five innings of two run ball twice a week from Ryan and Lopez isn’t going to cut it.

Let’s all wait and see if their gamble turns out or if they end up blowing the value of Ryan and Lopez.  Sadly, my money is on the latter, especially with the work stoppage coming next year.

The Twins traded maybe 140 innings each from Duran and Jax (much less valuable than a #1 starter) for 12 years of Abel and Tait, and 5 years of Bradley. And they can still flip Ryan and Lopez at the deadline for prospects if they aren’t in contention. I get that there may be a work stoppage, but even a half year with a playoff run + potential for 2027 will be in high demand. 

I’d love to get a back-end guy to stabilize the bullpen and maybe they will through a trade (Jeffers?) before opening day. But at least 2 spots also need to be saved for MLB ready guys that don’t have a rotation spot, perhaps Festa and Preillip.

 

[Major League Ready]

10 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

I can only speak for me but I’m pissed we didn’t complete the job on the rebuild. Keeping Ryan, Lopez, Buxton, Jeffers etc is a complete waste of time for them, and the fans. Once they depleted the entire bullpen in July 2025, and Falvey’s philosophy to not spend real money on RP (which I agree with BTW), it became clear to me to trade everyone else. 

They stop half-way through the process and then tell us they don't do half-measures.  This is the worst case scenario.  We lost players that could not possibly be replaced in free agency given they were much cheaper than it would cost to replace.  They killed any chances this team had in the near future and now they are diminishing the team's chances long-term.  What they are doing is pleasing some fans short-term.  Many fans here were pretty adamant about not rebuilding even after the sell-off.  However, that short-term satisfaction will be gone by July.  The sell-off will be accepted. 

It sure seems their thought process is they buy acceptance from waiting until the deadline.  The cost is not that great if Ryan/Lopez perform and stay healthy.  Of course, they risk getting nothing if Ryan/Lopez have significant injuries.   That risk would be warranted if they were going to invest heavily in this team but there is no indication of said investment.  I am going to hope this works out but you have to believe we could have gotten Williams and Sproat.  Thise guys will be contributing this year.  This was a wasted opportunity.

[tony&rodney]

23 hours ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

It’s Twinsfest weekend, pitchers and catchers report in a month. Time’s not out, but it’s too late to swing a radical franchise altering trade because there isn’t time to make additional moves.

It’s marginal thinking time, not rebuilding the core time.

this very flawed team is likely what we’ll see on opening day.

This seems about right. There is always a chance that change can occur with several late trades but the long offseason of waiting ends pretty soon. The Twins will (seemingly) get their own three peat and it wasn't easy.

The trades last July are harder to understand with the silence of this cold winter. Money? Hardly. One can spin the loss of Duran, Jax, Varland, and (yes) Stewart in multiple fashion. The promise of the players returned makes some sense. Money, however, cannot be a factor. Those four add less than $10M total, at most, to any budget beyond their replacements earning a minimum salary. Bell and Larnach alone cover that pittance. Performance? Hope springs eternal among baseball fans every spring. One can pick apart the departed but it is challenging to suggest the current unknown hurlers who will take their place. Pierson Ohl was cited by numerous parties as one to fill the back of the pen. He was just DFA'ed. 

An occasional reference is made to the most egregious weakness for the bullpen but it needs to be highlighted. The Twins are a very poor team defensively. When I considered how to improve the roster, my first emphasis was to acquire players who could turn batted balls into outs. The hope is that the players on the roster can improve drastically to reach an acceptable level of play in the field, perhaps even close to average. I can see some hope in a few but the physical challenges are too great for some. Defense impacts pitching far more than statistics can measure.

As a Twins fan I will be hoping for a successful season of around 75 wins. I remember that things can happen. We can hope that several of Jenkins, Rodriguez, Gonzalez, Culpepper, Morris, and others arrive with a bang, earning ROY votes as Julien did a few years ago. We can hope that Keaschall, Lee, and Lewis have career years. We can hope the pitchers and Byron Buxton remain healthy and effective in their play. That is about all we can do.

If the above doesn't occur,  we are left hoping the team is sold and that the Pohlads take the front office with them to another world.

[Julian Bernick]

On 1/22/2026 at 3:37 PM, bunsen82 said:

Huh,  by every indication Bradley is a starter this year and Abel is as well if SWR is in the bullpen.  Abel will battle Matthews for the last spot.   Roden is also likely in the outfield, especially if we trade Larnach.  

I think this is educated guesswork, but we'll be down 2-3 of these guys from injuries and ONLY 2-3 guys if we're lucky. (I mean starters in general, not the above dudes in particular.)

[bunsen82]

12 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

I can only speak for me but I’m pissed we didn’t complete the job on the rebuild. Keeping Ryan, Lopez, Buxton, Jeffers etc is a complete waste of time for them, and the fans. Once they depleted the entire bullpen in July 2025, and Falvey’s philosophy to not spend real money on RP (which I agree with BTW), it became clear to me to trade everyone else. 

Well there is only a handful of us.