What the Heck Happened to José Miranda?

[RpR]

6 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

Nothing "happened". He's just another in a long line of decent but ultimately mediocre baseball players that fans raised their expectations too high for. 

Even last year, as a bat only player, he was a completely unremarkable hitter. A wOBA of 0.328 and an xwOBA of 0.306?

His collapse is not at all unexpected. 

I agree but the fact he is not even average at AAA, is , to me, a bit odd.

[Vanimal46]

Average at best talent with a poor attitude isn't a recipe for MLB success. Why would another team give him an MiLB deal when their scouts see how much he pouts being in AAA? His next stop will be in a foreign league. 

[gman]

I think the Twins definitely need a rest and recovery department. It may need sports shrinks besides coaches.

[NYCTK]

33 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

What the heck happened to Polanco, Miranda, Kiriloff & others? They were forced to play at positions that would keep aggravating their injuries, which greatly affected their performance & reinjuries.

Everyone should DH at all time clearly. 

 

34 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

IMO, it was that plus also knowing that he wasn't going to get a fair shake to compete at 1B/DH (which was easier on his body & more opportunity), so it wasn't worth it. So IMO, the Miranda's biggest problem, like Kiriloff, is that he lost heart. 

Your opinion is bad. Yeah, the guy the Twins started in the playoffs at 1B wasn't getting a chance to play 1B. That surely makes sense if you don't think about it at all. 

[Danchat]

42 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

I think we have to ask why did Kiriloff retired? I expect it's very demanding physically & emotionally to play at the MLB level, so you need a lot of heart. Was physically demanding rehabilitation the sole reason Kiriloff retired?

Kirilloff had to have one of his bones shaved just to try and stop the chronic wrist problems, assumedly he retired because his wrist was going to be a continual problem going forward.

[AKTwinsFan]

What happened to him was he got hit with a 96mph fastball to the head last year vs the Detroit Tigers. After that he just lost all confidence at the plate. Up until then he was like Keashall this season, but Keashall came back from the hit to the arm and didnt lose a step. The head is always the worst though. I always feared that when at the plate. 

[Schmoeman5]

1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

 What the Heck Happened to José Miranda?  

Good question. What the heck happened to Sano, Julien & a few others? In these cases & especially Sano, they were over-tweaked with Twins' faulty hitting philosophy. What the heck happened to Polanco, Miranda, Kiriloff & others? They were forced to play at positions that would keep aggravating their injuries, which greatly affected their performance & reinjuries. After Keaschall hurt his arm, he has been kept at DH/1B/2B to preserve his arm. Shortly after Miranda & Kiriloff returned from shoulder injuries, they were placed at 3B & OF in both positions, you really put a lot of stress on your arms. They both had great starts but due to readjusting their throws they both injured their backs. The point of their injuries shows the drop in their performance. Why weren't they given the same opportunity to play at DH/1B to preserve their bodies as Keaschall? 

I think we have to ask why did Kiriloff retired? I expect it's very demanding physically & emotionally to play at the MLB level, so you need a lot of heart. Was physically demanding rehabilitation the sole reason Kiriloff retired? IMO, it was that plus also knowing that he wasn't going to get a fair shake to compete at 1B/DH (which was easier on his body & more opportunity), so it wasn't worth it. So IMO, the Miranda's biggest problem, like Kiriloff, is that he lost heart. 

IMO, every promising player in the system should be given every opportunity to prove themselves & develop into the best player they can be. IMO, the Twins aren't doing this which results in players losing heart. So in one way or another we answer all these questions with mismanagement, 

More fabrication by the good doctor. " they were forced to play at positions that would keep aggravating their injuries" Forced how? Did Rocco or Falvey or anyone put a gun to their heads? How exactly were they FORCED? Do you have any idea how much liability the Twins would have if this were true? Every time I see the Dr. post about this subject. I think of the 2 young boys and the shark fin in Jaws. "He made me do it"

[LA Vikes Fan]

39 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Average at best talent with a poor attitude isn't a recipe for MLB success. Why would another team give him an MiLB deal when their scouts see how much he pouts being in AAA? His next stop will be in a foreign league. 

I think he gets one more shot here on as MiLB deal with a bad team like Oakland, Colorado, or maybe Miami. A punch in the gut by being released may be what he needs to get humbled and get better. Probably not, though. His ceiling was always limited by his lack of speed and athleticism and lack of real power. Just wait though, he'll get a chance with a bad team, have a good month, and the chorus here will be that we let a "great player" get away and it's all because the Twins "can't develop anybody".  Just like the Tampa boards are probably saying the same thing about Joe Ryan.

[JD-TWINS]

4 hours ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

No idea what happened. Injuries, or just baseball is really hard.

Wouldnt be shocked if he signs a minor league deal next offseason with someone and he has a good year again. Wouldnt bet on it, but it wouldn’t shock me

It’s hard, and a lot to deal with between the ears……..his best shot is somewhere else with a fresh start and w/o Royce Lewis squarely in front of him. I wish him well but his steep decline from the guy that went 12-12 in the middle of last summer has washed his chances with the Twins.

[JD-TWINS]

35 minutes ago, Schmoeman5 said:

More fabrication by the good doctor. " they were forced to play at positions that would keep aggravating their injuries" Forced how? Did Rocco or Falvey or anyone put a gun to their heads? How exactly were they FORCED? Do you have any idea how much liability the Twins would have if this were true? Every time I see the Dr. post about this subject. I think of the 2 young boys and the shark fin in Jaws. "He made me do it"

I don’t get the assumption by Doc,  (paraphrasing) “everyone deserves endless opportunities……”. IT’s PROFESSIONAL BASEBALL not church league softball!!!

Kiersey - Miranda - Julien & on & on have had numerous “opportunities” and repeatedly are way worse than sub-par! How did Sano not have enough opportunities? He was in The Show for most of 7 plus years and then went away offensively. In his last full season he struck out 183 times - 34% of his trips to the plate & 39% of the time when he didn’t walk. That was his SEVENTH SEASON in MLB………gotta have some personal responsibility by then!

“It’s the philosophy” - “it’s the coaching”

David Popkins may get (if there is such a thing?) BEST POSITION COACH in all of MLB this year in Toronto!!! Do I think he’s special? No. Do I think the TWINS PLAYERS sucked in ‘24 and his coaching had nearly zero to do with the huge decline & inconsistency? Yes.

Blue Jays have 3 guys above .300 - another above .290 - 6 regulars above .265…………Ty France is hitting .320 in 81AB’s with Toronto and their INEPT hitting coach (Popkins), after being jettisoned from Target Field.

I think it might be the Player’s responsibility for their performance.😉

[JD-TWINS]

27 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

I think he gets one more shot here on as MiLB deal with a bad team like Oakland, Colorado, or maybe Miami. A punch in the gut by being released may be what he needs to get humbled and get better. Probably not, though. His ceiling was always limited by his lack of speed and athleticism and lack of real power. Just wait though, he'll get a chance with a bad team, have a good month, and the chorus here will be that we let a "great player" get away and it's all because the Twins "can't develop anybody".  Just like the Tampa boards are probably saying the same thing about Joe Ryan.

Just like Michael Hellman in Texas - he’s a star!! 😉

[Schmoeman5]

1 hour ago, Danchat said:

Kirilloff had to have one of his bones shaved just to try and stop the chronic wrist problems, assumedly he retired because his wrist was going to be a continual problem going forward.

True. But it was the back injury that forced him to retire. He didn't want the risk of being a broken down man by the age of 40. Great humble young man. 

[jmlease1]

42 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

 What the Heck Happened to José Miranda?  

Good question. What the heck happened to Sano, Julien & a few others? In these cases & especially Sano, they were over-tweaked with Twins' faulty hitting philosophy. What the heck happened to Polanco, Miranda, Kiriloff & others? They were forced to play at positions that would keep aggravating their injuries, which greatly affected their performance & reinjuries. After Keaschall hurt his arm, he has been kept at DH/1B/2B to preserve his arm. Shortly after Miranda & Kiriloff returned from shoulder injuries, they were placed at 3B & OF in both positions, you really put a lot of stress on your arms. They both had great starts but due to readjusting their throws they both injured their backs. The point of their injuries shows the drop in their performance. Why weren't they given the same opportunity to play at DH/1B to preserve their bodies as Keaschall? 

I think we have to ask why did Kiriloff retired? I expect it's very demanding physically & emotionally to play at the MLB level, so you need a lot of heart. Was physically demanding rehabilitation the sole reason Kiriloff retired? IMO, it was that plus also knowing that he wasn't going to get a fair shake to compete at 1B/DH (which was easier on his body & more opportunity), so it wasn't worth it. So IMO, the Miranda's biggest problem, like Kiriloff, is that he lost heart. 

IMO, every promising player in the system should be given every opportunity to prove themselves & develop into the best player they can be. IMO, the Twins aren't doing this which results in players losing heart. So in one way or another we answer all these questions with mismanagement, 

This is ridiculous. Polanco was moved off SS to try and keep him healthier, not forced to keep playing a position that would keep aggravating his injuries. Miranda was looked at to play more 1B and DH after injuring his shoulder. Your speculation on Kirilloff is ludicrous: he sustained a significant back injury (ask Aaron Gleeman how much fun it is) and was looking at another arduous rehab with no assurance of success. It wasn't about "not getting a fair shake at DH/1B". You're simply making stuff up to fit your view of things you perceive as wrong with this front office. There's literally nothing to support your conclusions about Kirilloff other than you want to clean house with the front office, manager, and development staff.

Miranda's inability to hit after being sent back down to AAA suggests that after the back and shoulder injuries he simply can't swing the way he used to, and hasn't been able to adapt to a new approach at the plate that gives him any success within his current physical status. To me, he looks like a player who is more limited physically now, and simply can't make the same kind of hard contact he used to. He's never been a disciplined hitter, but used to be able to still make hard contact when he swung, and now it looks like he can't cover the same amount of the plate and still hit the ball hard.

He needs to hit to be an effective player, and it may well be that the cumulative injuries have taken that away from him with his old approach...and his lack of plate discipline may be impeding his ability to change to a different, more disciplined approach that would allow him to hit better. 

It looks awful for him. Maybe a winter off, a total reset with rest and strengthening over the offseason could get him back on track...or maybe he's just not going to be able to do it.

But I doubt it's about "heart". And it certainly has nothing to do with the situations Polanco & Kirilloff found themselves in.

[weitz41]

Just guessing here... but I'd say the shoulder injury took away some bat speed that has not returned. Possibly effecting his hit tool as well. The difference between success and failure is so small in baseball that may be all it takes to tank a promising young player.

[Nshore]

Regardless of what happened to Miranda, he's not performing.  And if he's slamming helmets and such when he makes outs, tantrums are pretty toxic for a team, and he needs to be shown the door.

[LambchoP]

Both Miranda and Julien seem like DFA candidates. We could probably sign them to a minor league deal and give them another year to figure it out in St Paul without taking up a roster spot. 

[stringer bell]

4 hours ago, AKTwinsFan said:

What happened to him was he got hit with a 96mph fastball to the head last year vs the Detroit Tigers. After that he just lost all confidence at the plate. Up until then he was like Keashall this season, but Keashall came back from the hit to the arm and didnt lose a step. The head is always the worst though. I always feared that when at the plate. 

The performance bar for Keaschall is lower because he has good speed and the potential to be a plus defender. He got hit in the arm and not the head. He has looked very good since his return from the Injured List, but I do think expectations should be tempered a bit.

[twinfan]

Sounds like he definitely needs a change of scenery and an attitude adjustment. Who can tell what has happened to his hitting after the injury but he hasn't taken well to going to the minors or his current failures. Maybe Lynn Manuel can help him? Maybe a good hitting instructor can help him? I hope he gets a chance somewhere else or even with us. He could be in the .250-.270 range again. I like him and hope he can straighten himself out but time is running very short for his career.

[stringer bell]

1 hour ago, Nshore said:

Regardless of what happened to Miranda, he's not performing.  And if he's slamming helmets and such when he makes outs, tantrums are pretty toxic for a team, and he needs to be shown the door.

I had not heard this about Miranda and I haven't watched enough Saints games to see such behavior in person. If so, Miranda is his own worst enemy. 

9 minutes ago, LambchoP said:

Both Miranda and Julien seem like DFA candidates. We could probably sign them to a minor league deal and give them another year to figure it out in St Paul without taking up a roster spot. 

Julien has the advantage of being a LH hitter and he did perform fairly well at St. Paul. Because of the large hole the Twins have at first base, they may give him another shot next spring, but I think he used most of his chances by now. His performance since returning on August 1 has been subpar--.183 BA, .573 OPS--not good enough to merit a roster spot IMHO.

[DJL44]

19 minutes ago, LambchoP said:

Both Miranda and Julien seem like DFA candidates. We could probably sign them to a minor league deal and give them another year to figure it out in St Paul without taking up a roster spot. 

Both players are out of options. They're not staying on the 40-man roster.

FWIW - Jonah Bride has clearly out-performed Miranda in AAA.

[Vanimal46]

3 hours ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

I think he gets one more shot here on as MiLB deal with a bad team like Oakland, Colorado, or maybe Miami. A punch in the gut by being released may be what he needs to get humbled and get better. Probably not, though. His ceiling was always limited by his lack of speed and athleticism and lack of real power. Just wait though, he'll get a chance with a bad team, have a good month, and the chorus here will be that we let a "great player" get away and it's all because the Twins "can't develop anybody".  Just like the Tampa boards are probably saying the same thing about Joe Ryan.

I mean, we're just as bad as the bad teams you mentioned and we want nothing to do with him anymore... I guess there's always a chance, but I think odds are very low another MLB signs him this winter. 

[Doctor Gast]

6 hours ago, jmlease1 said:

This is ridiculous. Polanco was moved off SS to try and keep him healthier, not forced to keep playing a position that would keep aggravating his injuries. Miranda was looked at to play more 1B and DH after injuring his shoulder. Your speculation on Kirilloff is ludicrous: he sustained a significant back injury (ask Aaron Gleeman how much fun it is) and was looking at another arduous rehab with no assurance of success. It wasn't about "not getting a fair shake at DH/1B". You're simply making stuff up to fit your view of things you perceive as wrong with this front office. There's literally nothing to support your conclusions about Kirilloff other than you want to clean house with the front office, manager, and development staff.

Miranda's inability to hit after being sent back down to AAA suggests that after the back and shoulder injuries he simply can't swing the way he used to, and hasn't been able to adapt to a new approach at the plate that gives him any success within his current physical status. To me, he looks like a player who is more limited physically now, and simply can't make the same kind of hard contact he used to. He's never been a disciplined hitter, but used to be able to still make hard contact when he swung, and now it looks like he can't cover the same amount of the plate and still hit the ball hard.

He needs to hit to be an effective player, and it may well be that the cumulative injuries have taken that away from him with his old approach...and his lack of plate discipline may be impeding his ability to change to a different, more disciplined approach that would allow him to hit better. 

It looks awful for him. Maybe a winter off, a total reset with rest and strengthening over the offseason could get him back on track...or maybe he's just not going to be able to do it.

But I doubt it's about "heart". And it certainly has nothing to do with the situations Polanco & Kirilloff found themselves in.

It took 2 operations before they moved Polanco off SS. But that's not what I'm not talking about. I'm talking about when he injured his knee & by his performance, many knew he was playing injured. For months they kept running him out there until he could no longer take the field when the Twins weren't even in contention. That completely screwed up his knee. Polanco has always had a lot of heart, that's why he has played hurt & injured for most of his career. Kiriloff has played hurt with his wrist, shoulder & back for a long time, but he kept going out there. Why? Because of the hope to play a lot of baseball. Kiriloff's wrist probably hurt most of all. Many players have come back from back problems. Miranda did, Lee has a chronic back problem, but he's still out there. Why? The hope to play serious baseball. If you paid attention to what I said, losing heart was a part of it, not the sole reason. It's a reasonable observation (as a baseball player, how would I react if I were in the same situation), same with Miranda. I was a very big Flavine fan. I didn't wake up one morning & say I don't like Falvey's smile, so I'm against him. It's been years of observations of how Falvey & Co. operates & things I don't agree with. I believe in our players, I don't believe Falvey & Co. are perfect & all our poor performances aren't their fault, like a lot of TD members have been telling me. They have run out of excuses, so it's our players' fault; they are bad. But it appears to me that so many members are still buying everything they are selling.

[BillyBallLives]

Whatever Miranda was on during his 12 hit streak, he ran out of.

 

[Eephus]

6 hours ago, Parfigliano said:

Julien still gets chances in MLB to steady the boat.  Miranda doesn't even get off the dock on to the boat.

The way these two guys have hit the last 2 years, they'd have to be platinum glove candidates to warrant everyday lineup consideration. Instead, the glove is their weakness. Seems odd they are even still on the radar.

[jmlease1]

5 minutes ago, Eephus said:

The way these two guys have hit the last 2 years, they'd have to be platinum glove candidates to warrant everyday lineup consideration. Instead, the glove is their weakness. Seems odd they are even still on the radar.

Julien got sent down, rightfully, this season and hit well again in AAA. .879 OPS is good even in the International League. It made sense to call him back up once space opened up on the roster. Miranda is the one who has completely imploded.

[David Maro]

With Lewis and numerous others seeming to be the 3rd baseman as well as numerous 1st baseman he doesn't see opportunities for his future. That makes it difficult to go out and play his best. It is time for him to move on to a different organization that he would be given a better chance.

[cheeseheadgophfan]

7 hours ago, Schmoeman5 said:

True. But it was the back injury that forced him to retire. He didn't want the risk of being a broken down man by the age of 40. Great humble young man. 

Huh?  You mean he didn't retire because he wasn't getting to DH and play 1st base?  

He didn't prefer being a realtor to being a major league baseball player????  Color me shocked......

[Schmoeman5]

6 minutes ago, cheeseheadgophfan said:

Huh?  You mean he didn't retire because he wasn't getting to DH and play 1st base?  

He didn't prefer being a realtor to being a major league baseball player????  Color me shocked......

Well, only if they forced him as the good doctor stated.  🤣 

[Western SD Fan]

I can see Miranda signing a minor league contract with a team hoping that a change of scenery and coaching staff will help him.  Once the Twins DFA him, he can sign anywhere and that team doesn't have to put him on the 40-man roster.  

[Markdumont25]

I met him in the wild earlier this year, right after his demotion and hand injury. He was super gracious and appreciative of the well wishes... Seems like a nice guy and although a comeback seems unlikely I'll be cheering for it.