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Posted

The Winter Meetings came and went without the Twins front office making a particularly significant splash, although they did select a player in the Rule 5 for the first time in seven years. Here's a rundown of where things stand in their offseason with the holiday slowdown approaching.

Image courtesy of Reading Fighting Phils & Matt Blewett/Jerome Miron–Imagn Sports

During the Winter Meetings in Dallas last week, Derek Falvey confirmed some things that we mostly knew to be true: The Minnesota Twins are prioritizing trades over free agency, and for roster additions, they are targeting a first baseman and a right-handed outfield bat. As I wrote earlier this month, the front office's ability to take action this winter is contingent on making a significant trade – if not to acquire the help they need directly, then to free up spending room for such endeavors. 

From my view, a trade that swaps out quality pitching for an impact hitter feels like almost an inevitability. The Twins have some really conspicuous gaps in their position-player depth, with no experienced options at first base and guys like Austin Martin, DaShawn Keirsey Jr. and Michael Helman lined up for key roles. Meanwhile, their pitching staff is already pretty full up here in mid-December, to the extent that credible candidates like David Festa and Louie Varland are on the outside looking in. 

The projected pitching group became more crowded last week with new addition to the roster.

Twins Select RHP Eiberson Castellano from Philadelphia in Rule 5 Draft
Not since Falvey's first full year at the helm, back in 2017, have the Twins taken a player in the Rule 5 draft. That year, they selected Tyler Kinley out of the Marlins system following a strong showing from Kinley in the Dominican Winter League. The hard-throwing righty ended up making the roster out of spring training, but lasted only four appearances before being designated for assignment in late April. 

This year, with the ninth pick in the Rule 5, Minnesota picked right-hander Eiberson Castellano, the reigning Phillies minor league pitcher of the year. The 23-year-old is coming off an impressive season between High-A and Double-A (103.2 IP, 3.99 ERA, 11 HR, 136-to-29 K/BB). He boasts a mid-90s fastball, a heavily featured breaking ball, and a developing changeup that Minnesota seems to have some belief in.

 

It's far from a lock that Castellano will make the Opening Day roster, or stay there long if he does, but I don't believe the Twins make this pick unless they're tentatively writing him into their plans. Castellano was primarily a starter in Philadelphia's system this past season, logging 104 innings across 22 appearances, but it sounds like the Twins are envisioning him as a long man out of their bullpen. This could make him a good fit for the team's needs.

 

Taking a Rule 5 gamble is potentially the kind of crafty, low-cost value add that the front office needs to be pursuing given its constraints. However, the implications of bringing Castellano into the fold are notable. If he ends up with a spot in the Twins bullpen – alongside currently-slated occupants Jhoan Durán, Griffin Jax, Cole Sands, Jorge Alcalá, Brock Stewart, Michael Tonkin and Justin Topa – there is no room for anyone else. But that can't be it. The unit currently lacks a left-hander. Are they really going to send Varland back to Triple-A as a 27-year-old? 

Yes, things can and often do figure themselves out, but still I can't imagine the Twins head into camp with this same relief corps makeup. Something's gotta give.

 

Griffin Jax Rotation Conversion Unlikely?
One shakeup that would create flexibility in the bullpen would be transitioning Jax back into a starting role, which has become a prevalent talking point this offseason. However, according to Bobby Nightengale's report from the Winter Meetings, "The Twins haven’t closed the door on the idea of using Griffin Jax as a starting pitcher next season, but it appears unlikely."

"There are Twins officials who think he could succeed at it with his pitch mix, even if his velocity slightly declined while throwing more innings," Nightingale writes, "but Jax knows he’s one of the most dominant relievers in the league, too."

This doesn't mean it won't happen. The fact that Twins decision-makers "haven't closed the door on the idea" here in mid-December tells me it's something that's been seriously weighed. I'm of two minds on the subject because while I think there's validity to the stated point about his deep pitch mix, Jax was legitimately one of the two or three most valuable relief pitchers in the league. Tough to mess with that. 

Twins Interested in Re-signing Santana
Nightengale reports also that the Twins have interest in a reunion with Carlos Santana. This comes as no real surprise, given his successful fit in 2024 and Minnesota's lack of a clear replacement for the free agent first baseman. But simply signing Santana to the same deal as they did this year (1 year, $5 million) would require clearing about $10 million of payroll to align with the perceived ownership cap of $130 million.

The problem is that if he has any interest elsewhere, Santana probably doesn't want to wait around until the Twins can find a taker for Christian Vázquez or whomever. The urgency built by this contingency is why I believe the front office will buck its trend of waiting until the late stage of the offseason to make any trades. 

Then again, there are no signs anything is close to materializing right now, and we're coming up on that two-week holiday period where major moves rarely take place. So maybe they are just going to wait, wait, wait.

Front Office Calms Fears of a Correa Trade
The team's unwillingness to rule out a Carlos Correa trade has caused plenty of anxiety with fans this offseason, myself included. While the stance of listening on any player is understandable, some of the quotes from Falvey almost started to sound like he was welcoming offers for the shortstop, who has a full no-trade clause. These rumors and rumblings strike a nerve only because of their viability, in the scope of frustrating spending limitations being imposed from ownership. 

Fortunately, team officials have since taken steps to downplay that possibility. Among them was Rocco Baldelli, who (rightfully) reiterated how critically important Correa is to the team and its outlook. "When you take a guy away who’s one of the top players in the game … you’re really going to be left searching and looking to figure things out," Baldelli said. Uh, yeah. 

Per Nightengale, "The speculation surrounding Correa’s availability was overblown this week, club officials indicated, as they continue to emphasize they are not doing anything more than their normal due diligence when asked about any of their best players. They have no desire to shop Correa despite their own payroll limitations, which they’ve communicated to teams."

 

My fears of a financially-driven Correa trade won't be put to bed until the Twins make some sort of actual move for payroll relief, but it's reassuring that the organization – not exactly known for its PR prowess of late – was compelled to get the word out and prevent this from becoming the overriding narrative in their barren offseason. The idea that they'd even be open to trading Correa at all in their current state is just sad.

2025 Roster & Payroll Projection
Minnesota's current projected roster, below, is interesting to behold. On the one hand, you've got a pitching staff that looks all but finalized. We might see Varland or a left-hander sneak into the bullpen somehow, but they've got all the personnel they need. On the other hand, you've got an offense with so many clearly troubling uncertainties, and that's before you potentially trade someone like Vázquez or Willi Castro to get clear under the payroll mandate. 

Is José Miranda really going to be your primary starter at first? There's been talk of moving Royce Lewis to second but then what happens at third? Is Brooks Lee going to start in the majors after looking overmatched as a rookie? Keirsey and Martin are the top backup outfielders? Like I said, something's gotta give.

twinsroster121624.png


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Posted

There are so many unknowns regarding the Twins.

Will the 26 person roster budget rest at $130 million? If so, the Twins are a little pinched to add much in the way of experienced players, whether a LH RP, RH corner outfield/1B bat, or otherwise. The team will not find it difficult to reduce below the current mark if that $130M mark is a requirement.

Does an agreement to sell the team mean any change at all for 2025? The expectation is that a sale tomorrow still takes months (or longer) to complete. It seems unlikely to have an effect on next season.

How does the front office view the chances of the current roster (displayed above by Nick) in the AL Central? If Falvey & Sons are convinced the current collection of players is adequate for 2025, changes could be quite minimal.

Are the Twins open to trades of players they may have seen as critical to the team in 2024? While the depth is questionable nearly everywhere, there must be more than a few teams asking questions on players besides our two long term contract players.

It seems like a trade of some consequence is possible. There are still a fair amount of opportunities for transactions. However, a number of teams have already made a number of moves that are tightening the market. This doesn't seem like the year to wait out the market if there are plans to trade with other teams.

Posted
Quote

 If he ends up with a spot in the Twins bullpen – alongside currently-slated occupants Jhoan Durán, Griffin Jax, Cole Sands, Jorge Alcalá, Brock Stewart, Michael Tonkin and Justin Topa – there is no room for anyone else. But that can't be it. The unit currently lacks a left-hander. Are they really going to send Varland back to Triple-A as a 27-year-old? 

Plus Ronny Henriquez. It would be prudent to trade out some of their bullpen depth along with Paddack for offense.

Quote

Is José Miranda really going to be your primary starter at first? There's been talk of moving Royce Lewis to second but then what happens at third? Is Brooks Lee going to start in the majors after looking overmatched as a rookie? Keirsey and Martin are the top backup outfielders? Like I said, something's gotta give.

If they add a 1B then I expect Miranda to fill 3B. They really want to add an outfielder so only two of Julien, Helman, Keirsey, Lee and Martin make the 26-man roster.

Posted

Tradable guys (I know  - everybody or anybody) that can help bring back some 1B solution or a good young Catcher:

Paddack - Vazquez (& 2 differing levels of prospects so to not have to spend more on Vazquez) - Duran - Matthews - Julien - Varland - Jeffers - Castro - Martin

Seems Duran, along with another 1 or probably 2 other guys here should be able to bring back a real everyday player. W/o knowing the targeted player for Twins & the trade partner it just wild speculation on the details of who.

I like Festa & have no hesitation with him as the 4 or 5 starter. He’s not perfect but he’ll continue to improve.

Paddack (better use of his innings and lack of durability) & Varland could both be in the PEN …..Topa - Sands - Alcala - Henriquez - Stewart - Jax - Duran - Blewett - Tonkin - Moran - Funderburk - Headrick - Castellano ………..Raya - Canterino - Prielipp are all later summer long shots for PEN help…….that’s 18 guys to get 10 or 11 that will perform …..this is why I like moving Jax to closer role and trade Duran with a couple other pieces to get a position player of real value!

Posted

If the pohlads tell falvey to jump , falvey says how high ...

If the pohlads tells falvey to cut payroll  , falvey says how low ...

All I can say is watch your back , jack   , something has to give to make this team better in 2025 , , the FO has relied on hope to long ...

Usually every team tweeks it's roster every off season  and doesn't keep shuttling out the same roster year   after year  ...

Let's get the obvious holes filled ...

Posted
5 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Can we please do away with the notion that Castellano needs to stay on the big league roster all year?  If the Twins like him, but feel he needs some work in MiLB, they will work out a trade to keep him.  

I'm with you Fire. By all means trade for him & put him on the 40-man. IMO it'd be beneficial all the way around. Castellano as mop-up might not work out & him having options gives us more options.

Posted
7 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Plus Ronny Henriquez. It would be prudent to trade out some of their bullpen depth along with Paddack for offense.

That suggestion makes a lot of sense. But I'm still puzzled how they are going to give everyday playing time to Brooks Lee, Miranda, Julian, AND Lewis, not to mention the super-utility guys like Castro and Martin. At least one of those guys needs to be traded or they languish all year in AAA. 

Posted

That lineup still has a ton of potential despite the down year. A year ago we would have looked at that and thought it was one of the best young lineups in baseball. It’s a big year for Julien and Lewis to bounce back, Lee to establish himself and Miranda to prove it and take another step. It can take a while for young players to establish themselves - not time to give up on this core, especially with what is still coming. 

Posted

You don't cast a net in the creek behind your house in Mpls. & expect a big walleye to wander into your net. you go where the walleyes are. 1st see where the fat (an expensive player that can easily be replaced) is. Then, for example, Rox needs pitching desperately & they have holes everywhere. You go make an offer that generously fills a couple of their holes &  you throw in Dobnak, who also fills a hole. There's a good market for Paddack, go & find them & make a deal. Don't expect by putting up a Fire Sale sign up, FOs will come flocking to you & offer big juicy trades that fill our needs.

Don't trade away players we need, especially in the core, so to sign an expensive player we don't need. Falvey wants Santana to come back, after a career year, he's projected at a 1.1 WAR, which is his high ceiling. Miranda is projected at 1.5 WAR & that's his low floor. Santana wants a 3-year deal at +$7M, we can't afford his years or money, Miranda is free.

Defense was a problem last year, the focus has to be up the middle. Margot is gone & Keirsey finally gets his chance & especially shines defensively. CF is resolved. Our biggest hole is 2B., Julien is a liability both defensively & offensively now, trade him. We can start Lewis, Lee, Castro, or even Martin, with Keaschall in the wings, we don't need him. Even with Vazquez defensively, we are in the bottom half of the league. We have to seriously look for an upgrade not only now but especially for the future. There are a few options out there, go & deal for them.

IMO we could use a platoon/safety net at 1B. My target is low valued Romy Gonzales (BOS), he has 4yrs availability, absolutely mashes LHPs & very solid defensively who can play anywhere in the INF or OF. So if he's not needed at 1B (hopefully) he can platoon at RF or anywhere. Go & deal for him

Our BP is packed with non option pitchers. I'm in favor of moving Jax to the rotation to replace Paddack. Our rotation should be pretty much set. We need a LHRP, we need to target Nardi (MIA), go & deal for him. Once settled in the BP Varland will take off & needs to be placed on the active roster. 

I love our core, don't touch the core, resist & stay out of FA. With minor changes via trades, we can be postseason battlers. FO creativity didn't work last season, it won't work this season. Don't sit around & wait. Just Go & Do It! 

Posted
8 hours ago, Doctor Wu said:

That suggestion makes a lot of sense. But I'm still puzzled how they are going to give everyday playing time to Brooks Lee, Miranda, Julian, AND Lewis, not to mention the super-utility guys like Castro and Martin. At least one of those guys needs to be traded or they languish all year in AAA. 

If the entire team stays healthy for the entire year. It won't... it never does but if it does (which it won't) and if all 13 players actually deserve every day playing time. Everyone is playing well and nobody goes in the tank for an extended time. Which won't happen because every year multiple players unexpectedly go in the tank. 

If you had 13 deserving players who have earned every day time and they somehow remained injury free for 162 games and you decided to disperse playing time equally (which you wouldn't do anyway). 

Taking out the two catchers committed to the one catcher spot. Here is the math. 

162 games times 8 positions divided by 11 players equals 117.8 games per player. 118 games out of 162 will equate to roughly 5 games out of every 7.

The math above is solely to provide a framework for what it would take to play everyone equally under the conditions of having 11 players with above average talent all remaining healthy and playing well. This of course won't happen because of injuries and unexpected poor play but if it did (It won't). 5 games out of 7 is decent playing time for everyone. 

Now... If the impossible happens... if everybody stays healthy for the entire year and everybody plays equally well creating the need for everyday playing time for all. We are not going to care if Correa is only playing 5 games out of 7 because it won't matter who else is playing instead because they are also playing well. 

Just framework to ease your too many players concerns. None of this will ever happen. We know that the Twins will commit 6 players to the platoon system leaving only 5 players who will get every day playing time and 3 of those 5 are frequently hurt. 

Posted
1 hour ago, Doctor Wu said:

I'm still puzzled how they are going to give everyday playing time to Brooks Lee, Miranda, Julian, AND Lewis, not to mention the super-utility guys like Castro and Martin. At least one of those guys needs to be traded or they languish all year in AAA. 

Lee, Julien and Martin haven't earned everyday playing time with their performance. They should start the season in AAA.

Posted
47 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

you throw in Dobnak, who also fills a hole.

Are they talking to a team in South Korea? Dobnak doesn't belong in MLB and he probably isn't good enough to play in Japan.

Posted

Hoping Canterino is healthy and earns an opening day roster spot with his electric fastball. But there should be no discussion of trading Ryan, Lopez or Ober, weakening the starting rotation. Festa, Matthews, and the other potential young starters are all unproven. Even if a couple of young guys emerge as mid rotation starters, the team still has no real ace like a young version of Verlander, a stopper who you can count on to pitch 7-9 very effective innings every time out. Lopez has too many clunker starts to put him in the ace class, though he is the Twins’ top starter when he is on. 

Posted
3 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

You don't cast a net in the creek behind your house in Mpls. & expect a big walleye to wander into your net. you go where the walleyes are. 1st see where the fat (an expensive player that can easily be replaced) is. Then, for example, Rox needs pitching desperately & they have holes everywhere. You go make an offer that generously fills a couple of their holes &  you throw in Dobnak, who also fills a hole. There's a good market for Paddack, go & find them & make a deal. Don't expect by putting up a Fire Sale sign up, FOs will come flocking to you & offer big juicy trades that fill our needs.

Don't trade away players we need, especially in the core, so to sign an expensive player we don't need. Falvey wants Santana to come back, after a career year, he's projected at a 1.1 WAR, which is his high ceiling. Miranda is projected at 1.5 WAR & that's his low floor. Santana wants a 3-year deal at +$7M, we can't afford his years or money, Miranda is free.

Defense was a problem last year, the focus has to be up the middle. Margot is gone & Keirsey finally gets his chance & especially shines defensively. CF is resolved. Our biggest hole is 2B., Julien is a liability both defensively & offensively now, trade him. We can start Lewis, Lee, Castro, or even Martin, with Keaschall in the wings, we don't need him. Even with Vazquez defensively, we are in the bottom half of the league. We have to seriously look for an upgrade not only now but especially for the future. There are a few options out there, go & deal for them.

IMO we could use a platoon/safety net at 1B. My target is low valued Romy Gonzales (BOS), he has 4yrs availability, absolutely mashes LHPs & very solid defensively who can play anywhere in the INF or OF. So if he's not needed at 1B (hopefully) he can platoon at RF or anywhere. Go & deal for him

Our BP is packed with non option pitchers. I'm in favor of moving Jax to the rotation to replace Paddack. Our rotation should be pretty much set. We need a LHRP, we need to target Nardi (MIA), go & deal for him. Once settled in the BP Varland will take off & needs to be placed on the active roster. 

I love our core, don't touch the core, resist & stay out of FA. With minor changes via trades, we can be postseason battlers. FO creativity didn't work last season, it won't work this season. Don't sit around & wait. Just Go & Do It! 

That's alot of creativity  doc , and alot of holes to fill  ...

You missed one hole , Rocco is not a major league caliber manager  ...

Posted
2 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

You don't cast a net in the creek behind your house in Mpls. & expect a big walleye to wander into your net. you go where the walleyes are. 1st see where the fat (an expensive player that can easily be replaced) is. Then, for example, Rox needs pitching desperately & they have holes everywhere. You go make an offer that generously fills a couple of their holes &  you throw in Dobnak, who also fills a hole. There's a good market for Paddack, go & find them & make a deal. Don't expect by putting up a Fire Sale sign up, FOs will come flocking to you & offer big juicy trades that fill our needs.

Don't trade away players we need, especially in the core, so to sign an expensive player we don't need. Falvey wants Santana to come back, after a career year, he's projected at a 1.1 WAR, which is his high ceiling. Miranda is projected at 1.5 WAR & that's his low floor. Santana wants a 3-year deal at +$7M, we can't afford his years or money, Miranda is free.

Defense was a problem last year, the focus has to be up the middle. Margot is gone & Keirsey finally gets his chance & especially shines defensively. CF is resolved. Our biggest hole is 2B., Julien is a liability both defensively & offensively now, trade him. We can start Lewis, Lee, Castro, or even Martin, with Keaschall in the wings, we don't need him. Even with Vazquez defensively, we are in the bottom half of the league. We have to seriously look for an upgrade not only now but especially for the future. There are a few options out there, go & deal for them.

IMO we could use a platoon/safety net at 1B. My target is low valued Romy Gonzales (BOS), he has 4yrs availability, absolutely mashes LHPs & very solid defensively who can play anywhere in the INF or OF. So if he's not needed at 1B (hopefully) he can platoon at RF or anywhere. Go & deal for him

Our BP is packed with non option pitchers. I'm in favor of moving Jax to the rotation to replace Paddack. Our rotation should be pretty much set. We need a LHRP, we need to target Nardi (MIA), go & deal for him. Once settled in the BP Varland will take off & needs to be placed on the active roster. 

I love our core, don't touch the core, resist & stay out of FA. With minor changes via trades, we can be postseason battlers. FO creativity didn't work last season, it won't work this season. Don't sit around & wait. Just Go & Do It! 

I agree with the GO & do it message!

Santana has signed about 5 different 1 year deals in a row - not sure where the 3 year deal he’s looking for came from at age 39 - seems far fetched.

Completely agree one of the two Catchers should be exchanged for a longer term option - Vazquez preferably.

I agree that Castro, if still rostered, can be a good bridge to Keaschall or Lee once they are ready.

I do understand that there is a sentimental view of Dobnack but I cannot disagree more that he’s going to ”plug a hole” in anyone’s organization. A GM would have to have some sort of history eraser to make that happen.

Correa at SS can help the up the middle defense - displacing Julien can help the up the middle defense. Not signing, or ignoring the potential value of a Gold Glove probably won’t help the defense.

Posted
3 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

I love our core, don't touch the core,

Define core. I agree that moves need to be made. Looking at the roster and who has proven themselves as a core player I come up with Byron Buxton and Carlos Correa. 

Posted

Twins need to actually pick up the phone and initiate some trades. Waiting back and just hoping some team calls us with a good deal probably isn't going to happen. Waiting until the last minute when everyone has their teams pretty much set is pure stupidity. Every other day it seems we read about a new team acquiring a catcher. Why didn't we try to trade Vasquez to any of those teams?

Posted
31 minutes ago, Otaknam said:

Hoping Canterino is healthy and earns an opening day roster spot with his electric fastball. But there should be no discussion of trading Ryan, Lopez or Ober, weakening the starting rotation. Festa, Matthews, and the other potential young starters are all unproven. Even if a couple of young guys emerge as mid rotation starters, the team still has no real ace like a young version of Verlander, a stopper who you can count on to pitch 7-9 very effective innings every time out. Lopez has too many clunker starts to put him in the ace class, though he is the Twins’ top starter when he is on. 

NOBODY in baseball throws 7-9 innings as guys did in the past. Having that as an expectation isn’t realistic. 6 1/3 - OK, I’ll buy that as the bar. ……Max Fried just signed a huge contract & he averaged 6 innings per outing in ‘24. Corbin Burnes “is a horse” & he averaged 6.06 innings per outing in ‘24. Pablo Lopez averaged 5.78 innings. Blake Snell 5.2 innings in ‘24 & I think he threw a complete game in there.

Posted
44 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

I agree with the GO & do it message!

Santana has signed about 5 different 1 year deals in a row - not sure where the 3 year deal he’s looking for came from at age 39 - seems far fetched.

Completely agree one of the two Catchers should be exchanged for a longer term option - Vazquez preferably.

I agree that Castro, if still rostered, can be a good bridge to Keaschall or Lee once they are ready.

I do understand that there is a sentimental view of Dobnack but I cannot disagree more that he’s going to ”plug a hole” in anyone’s organization. A GM would have to have some sort of history eraser to make that happen.

Correa at SS can help the up the middle defense - displacing Julien can help the up the middle defense. Not signing, or ignoring the potential value of a Gold Glove probably won’t help the defense.

I heard that Santana wanted a 3yr deal (he's probably tired of 1 yr deals & figures he'll try for more), which I agree it doesn't make sense & he's not going to get it, IMO once we get up the middle set we don't need a GG at 1B & aim much higher with offense.

Posted
12 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Can we please do away with the notion that Castellano needs to stay on the big league roster all year?  If the Twins like him, but feel he needs some work in MiLB, they will work out a trade to keep him.  

While I'd normally agree with you, I'm not sure this is as easily done this year. Multiple reports out there that the Twins had previously tried to trade for him and couldn't get it done so selected him in the Rule 5 instead. So, it'd seem like the asking price to keep him in the system will be relatively painful and not so easily accomplished for this particular player.

Posted
47 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

Define core. I agree that moves need to be made. Looking at the roster and who has proven themselves as a core player I come up with Byron Buxton and Carlos Correa. 

I consider core players as a combination of players who have proven themselves in '23 as valuable, foundational, leaders, and winners, who work well together. Those who are still with the Twins are Correa, Buxton, Lopez, Lewis, Ober, Ryan, Castro, Duran, Jax & Vazquez. IMO a winning formula If we trade any of them it'd greatly affect the continuity of the team.

Posted
2 hours ago, rv78 said:

So this is year 3 now of needing a 1B and RHOF. Can anyone say this FO is a failure? I can.

This is how it works when you are signing one year contracts to fill holes temporarily. You'll need the same every year because the hole is never filled long term. 

When Margot goes away... they find another Margot. When Santana goes away... they find another Santana. The presence of Margot blocks in-house longer term solutions which brings them right back to this same need every year.

We had the same revolving door at SS until they signed Correa long term. Now... it's reasonably certain that they won't be signing big name free agents. They also won't be trading prospects for big name guys with expensive contracts for the same reason they won't be bringing expensive free agents.   

Is this a failure? The truth is... It's what they have intended to do to manage budget constraints. This makes them successful doing what they intended to do.  

Should they do it this way. I don't believe so. 

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