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Posted

Defense can be the difference between winning and losing, and minor mental errors can cost a team the game. Mistakes in recent series highlight more significant defensive issues for the Twins.

Image courtesy of John Leyba-USA TODAY Sports

The Twins have been missing some of the team’s best defenders during the season’s early weeks, forcing players to play in secondary positions. Royce Lewis, Carlos Correa, and Byron Buxton have all been on the IL, which means the team turned to many of the players in these rankings. Correa and Buxton have recently returned, and that should help the team’s overall defense. 

Entering play on Saturday, the Twins ranked 27th in baseball in team defensive runs saved, with only the Marlins, Mets, and White Sox ranking lower. Minnesota has negative rankings in seven of the nine defensive positions. Left field (-6 DRS), shortstop (-5 DRS), and center field (-4 DRS) have been the team's top three worst positions, which makes sense considering the players are not available for some of those spots. No team has a lower DRS than the Twins in left field. Below are rankings for Fangraphs’ Defensive Runs Above Average (DEF), Outs Above Average (OAA), and Defensive Runs Saved (DRS).

5. Jose Miranda
DEF: 0.0/ OAA: -1/ DRS: 0

The Twins weren’t comfortable playing Miranda at third base last season while he dealt with a shoulder issue. Entering spring, the team seemed to be taking a similar stance. However, Lewis being injured changed the team’s approach, and Miranda was fully healthy. His fielding run value (41st percentile) and OAA (30th percentile) rank below the league average. He hasn’t been a butcher at third base, but the club will see a significant defensive upgrade when Lewis can return. 

4. Manuel Margot
DEF: -2.1/ OAA: -2/ DRS: -3

Minnesota’s front office hoped Margot would fill the role vacated by Michael A. Taylor, but he has struggled on both sides of the ball. The Twins haven’t seemed comfortable using him in center field, which defeats the purpose of having him on the roster. His sprint speed and defensive numbers have taken a significant drop this season, and that’s one of the reasons the Twins have relegated him to a corner outfield spot. It will be interesting to see how long the team stays with him since he seems to be declining rapidly. 

3. Alex Kirilloff
DEF: -2.6/ OAA: -1/ DRS: -4

Last season, the Twins played Kirilloff more regularly at first base because of the team’s depth in the outfield. Carlos Santana’s presence has moved Kirilloff back to the outfield, but it hasn’t been a smooth transition. According to FanGraphs, he has provided a negative defensive value in left field (-1.3 DEF) and first base (-1.3 DEF). Kirilloff has played fewer than 50 innings at first base, so he has quickly accumulated a lot of negative value. It will be interesting to see if the team considers demoting Kirilloff during his current slump. 

2. Willi Castro
DEF: -1.0/ OAA: -3/ DRS: -4

Castro’s defensive miscues were on full display over the last week, but Twins manager Rocco Baldelli stood up for his player during post-game interviews. Realistically, he shouldn’t be playing center field regularly, but Margot’s struggles have forced the team to use him. His defense at third base has been substantially better than the outfield, with a 1.2 DEF, the sixth-highest total for any Twins defender. Minnesota will continue to use him at multiple positions unless a long-term injury opens a regular defensive home. 

1. Austin Martin
DEF: -4.5/ OAA: -3/ DRS: -6

Martin has the lowest defensive runs saved total on the team. His DEF total in left field is the worst of any position player, and his time in center field is the team’s third-worst DEF total. He is a converted infielder, so there can be some struggles in the transition to the outfield. However, he is considered a good athlete with solid speed, which is why the Twins were comfortable changing his position. His Fielding Run Value and Arm Value are in the 9th percentile or lower. Minnesota demoted him to make room for Buxton’s return, so Martin needs to find his defensive footing to provide big-league value in the future. 

How would you rank the team’s defensive players this season? Do you agree with how the players are ranked above? Who was left off the list? Leave a COMMENT and start the discussion.

 


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Posted

The fan in me appreciates the work of those who post articles on Twins Daily. However, a negative look at  players probably is misplaced. Perhaps an analysis and look at why the Twins are not very good at playing in the field would be more useful than just using unreliable, at best, defensive statistics to lowlight the efforts of individual players. The team has been constructed with players using a pretty specific eye towards talents judged most important by the people who put this squad together. Nobody should be too surprised by how the Twins field the ball given the design of the roster. The physical mistakes have been mostly average to this point in the season. I will grant that the mental gaffes are troublesome. I wonder if some players are taking their unfortunate at bats into the field.

Posted

Keirsey!  A real CF instead of the butchers we have had.  I suspect he can hit at least as well as Margot.  Can the FO please admit it made a mistake and DFA Margot?  It took to long for Jackson, but scrapping the bottom of the barrel is not good enough for a team that wants to win.  

Martin has been a disappointment.  I have not been his biggest fan, but hoped he would do better than he has shown.  Maybe next time.  But once again I am frustrated by the willingness of this team to use players who are not suited for the positions we put them in.

Posted
8 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

The fan in me appreciates the work of those who post articles on Twins Daily. However, a negative look at  players probably is misplaced. Perhaps an analysis and look at why the Twins are not very good at playing in the field would be more useful than just using unreliable, at best, defensive statistics to lowlight the efforts of individual players.

I agree with that comment. In any case, I think it's still much too early in the season to start ranking the team's worst fielders. I think tony&rodney's suggestion might make for a more interesting article and analysis. 

Posted

I'm all for having the best defense & most athletic players on the field. Here you've stated 2 of our more athletic players as the worst defensive players. The injuries of Lewis, Correa & Buxton have really taxed our defense over the last few weeks. Where we had to depend on bench player Castro & rookie  Martin who have played very little OF, way too much. They are not players that are ready to be looked upon as being key full-time players at key positions at this time. The fact that they were, shows the lapse of their defense. They are normally very good defensive players & majority of others players who would have been put in their situation would have been lot worse.  

We have been hurting all over the field with the absence of Correa, Buxton & Lewis whether the stats show it or not. Miranda & Kiriloff lack slightly defensive ability & should be playing 1B. Playing 3B & OF respectively they are stretched especially due to their past arm problems. I think it's unfair to rate part-time players or out-of-position players forced to play at full-time capacity over an extended time. Margot, there is no excuse for him.

Old-Timey Member
Posted

Helman 2b, Lee 1b, Lewis 3b, Correa ss, Kepler rf, Buxton cf, Keirsey LF, Castro util/dh, Jeffers, c.

 

Keep Santana and Julien around.

 

Cut or trade everything else.

 

Your eliminated lineup come August. You're welcome Rocco.

Verified Member
Posted

Miranda, Kirilloff, Martin are young. They need playing time at 1 position to settle in and get comfortable there. Bouncing them around between different positions isn't helping. Corey Koskie had a brick for a glove when he started playing 3rd for the Twins but was given the chance to get better with "regular" playing time at that position. He didn't have to play another position while doing so and got very respectable with his glove. Put the players where they belong, play them everyday so they get comfortable and quit the musical chairs positioning of players in the field. Margot was a long-shot to be worth anything and was brought in to be a backup. Utility players like Castro are what they are for a reason. They don't belong in the lineup almost daily just because they can bat left-handed or right-handed against an opposite throwing pitcher. 

Why is it these young players are good at every level as they progress through the minors but when they get into Rocco's system of platoon and play somewhere else different today from last time you played 3 days ago that they struggle? It's not hard to see why. 

Posted
8 minutes ago, LambchoP said:

Kiriloff and Julien need a reset at AAA. Bring up Keirsey Jr, and another infielder. Too bad Lee isn't healthy yet

I'm starting to think that Kirilloff just isn't that great. He's a bat only player without that much bat. Over 800 PA in the majors and a WAR of 0.2. More in common with Scott Stahoviak than Kent Hrbek.

Posted

It would also help the teams offense if Kepler didn't have to sit 3 days a week just because he's a lefty. Starting Margot or Vazquez over better players just because Roccos obsessed with platoon advantage sucks. It obviously doesn't work, just put your hottest hitters out there regardless of the opposing pitcher. Hate to say it but Vasquez, Margot and Farmer would be DFAd by now on a competitive team.

Posted
11 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

My sense tells me that Baldelli decides on the in game moves/substitutions but not the opening lineup. Seems crazy but it is 2024.

This. The FO generates a ton of analytics that says this is the best lineup what the opposing pitcher will do etc. They want Rocco to put that info in play. 

Posted
2 hours ago, Karbo said:

Wow, hitting is bad, fielding is bad, even the pitching has been bad lately. Looks a lot like a total system failure!

"But other than that Mrs. Lincoln, did you enjoy the play"?  (I agree with your assessment)

Posted
2 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

The fan in me appreciates the work of those who post articles on Twins Daily. However, a negative look at  players probably is misplaced. Perhaps an analysis and look at why the Twins are not very good at playing in the field would be more useful than just using unreliable, at best, defensive statistics to lowlight the efforts of individual players. The team has been constructed with players using a pretty specific eye towards talents judged most important by the people who put this squad together. Nobody should be too surprised by how the Twins field the ball given the design of the roster. The physical mistakes have been mostly average to this point in the season. I will grant that the mental gaffes are troublesome. I wonder if some players are taking their unfortunate at bats into the field.

I respectfully disagree. If the article is accurate then it’s just describing the reality of the situation. In this case I believe it is accurate. I share your skepticism about defensive metrics but even the old eye test tells you that this is not a good defensive club. 

Posted

Of the list the only one I really have sympathy for is Castro. He has been asked to play extensively at the two most difficult spots on the field. The other guys really aren’t doing well playing in spot usually on the corners. 
I also think Martin was mishandled in the minors. He played a million innings at SS when everyone knew he wasn’t going to play there. Now he is trying to be an outfielder. 

Posted

Manuel Margot has been the most disappointing pickup in my memory. They sold him to us as a defense first substitute for those inevitable days Buxton wouldn't be able to play the field. Maybe they were hoodwinked and truly believed this, but there's really nothing he can do to earn his spot on the roster in my mind. 

 

Posted

I sense a growing frustration from Twins fans with the current FO as well as the manager.  The frustrations with our ownership have been well chronicled.  It's well past time for the Margot failure to be admitted to and moved on from.  Kiersey would be an excellent addition as a LH bat to give Buxton a day off to DH as well as provide speed off the bench late in games.  Emmanuel Rodriguez continues to rake in AA.  

It should only be a matter of time before Royce Lewis makes it back.  If Julien keeps taking called third strikes it may only be a matter of time before Brooks Lee gets a chance and Julien goes to St. Paul to find his stroke and his eye.  I am impressed with the defensive improvement of Julien, but he is really disappointing at the plate thus far.

Alex Kirilloff confounds me.  The swing looks great, but you just can't keep fouling pitches off that you should be hammering.  I'm starting to wonder if I was far too optimistic with him.  Miranda is swinging better this year, but he's a future DH, which means he really doesn't have a future with the Twins.  I had all but given up on Larnach and he looks like a different hitter than the last two years so far.  Just play Kepler.  He's been a regular in the past, stop wasting AB's with Margot. 

How the Twins can win 12 in a row and 17 of 21 and then go on a (at this point) 7 game losing streak in which they are barely competitive is a mystery wrapped in an enigma.  After a frugal off season in which the paltry moves the Twins made are starting to look, well, paltry, I think attendance is going to take a big hit this year.  And with just a one-year deal with Balley, what will be the Twins media status and revenue outlook for 2025??   

Posted
51 minutes ago, LambchoP said:

It would also help the teams offense if Kepler didn't have to sit 3 days a week just because he's a lefty. Starting Margot or Vazquez over better players just because Roccos obsessed with platoon advantage sucks. It obviously doesn't work, just put your hottest hitters out there regardless of the opposing pitcher. Hate to say it but Vasquez, Margot and Farmer would be DFAd by now on a competitive team.

Which better players? Julien is struggling of late. Wallner and Kiriloff have been awful and bad (respectively). Larnach hasn't had a hit in 10 days. They don't have a catcher to replace Vazquez (Camargo is injured) and Jeffers is playing nearly every day. There is one player in AAA who looks interesting (Keirsey) but that's more for his glove than for his bat.

You pick on Margot but he's 4-8 with a walk over his past 3 games played. Farmer is 3-9 with two doubles and 4 RBI over the same stretch. They're losing this past week but it isn't Farmer or Margot's fault.

Posted
46 minutes ago, Linus said:

Of the list the only one I really have sympathy for is Castro. He has been asked to play extensively at the two most difficult spots on the field. The other guys really aren’t doing well playing in spot usually on the corners. 
I also think Martin was mishandled in the minors. He played a million innings at SS when everyone knew he wasn’t going to play there. Now he is trying to be an outfielder. 

I'm also sympathetic to Miranda, who has improved and is now an average 3B. We need to find a place for him to play since he appears to be one of the only RH hitters we have that can actually hit a little, and maybe a lot if he would get a little more regular playing time. I think we now know that Casto can't be the backup CF and Margot also isn't the answer. It's an important call since Buxton is unlikely to play more than 80-100 games in CF and it's a key defensive position.  

At the risk of stating the obvious, there is a simple solution in just a few steps. 1 - Call up Keirsey to be the backup CF. Add him to the 40 man in place of the DFA'd Jackson.  2- Castro becomes your RH hitting part of a LF platoon (,436 BA/1/104 OPS vs. LH pitching. .213 BA/ .632 OPS as a LH hitter vs. RH pitching), and has the UTL role, particularly as the backup SS.  3 - Larnach is the LH hitting part of the LF platoon and even DHs some against LH pitching. I know the D isn't great, but we need the bat. 4 -Choose between sending Kiriloff to AAA for a reset or a DFA of Margot to make room for Keirsey. Neither is adding anything and both are providing negative value. Decide which one has the best chance of improving at the MLB level. Whichever stays goes when Lewis is ready if they haven't shown significant improvement, or Farmer goes to make room. 5 - Get Miranda time at 1B AND 2B as well as at 3B. He needs to stay when Lewis comes back either as the IB, RH bat in the 2B platoon, or as a DH. 

6 - Most importantly, play Kepler, Julien, and Miranda every day until Lewis is ready. SIT Farmer and Margot (assuming Kirilloff goes to AAA, likely result) and use them only as the typical 25th and 26th men on the roster - occasional PH duties, defensive replacements, start maaaaybe once a week. They only stay now because there isn't anyone at AAA worth giving a shot until Helman, Wallner or Kirilloff start to hit.    

Posted
3 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

Keirsey!  A real CF instead of the butchers we have had.  I suspect he can hit at least as well as Margot.  Can the FO please admit it made a mistake and DFA Margot?  It took to long for Jackson, but scrapping the bottom of the barrel is not good enough for a team that wants to win.  

Martin has been a disappointment.  I have not been his biggest fan, but hoped he would do better than he has shown.  Maybe next time.  But once again I am frustrated by the willingness of this team to use players who are not suited for the positions we put them in.

Keirsey!!!! Worse numbers in center field than Martin. Get him up here!

Posted
1 hour ago, Linus said:

the old eye test tells you that this is not a good defensive club. 

The Twins are not a good defensive team, but part of the problem is that defense is not an important consideration in the viewpoint of those guys who put together the roster. The Twins are doing, more or less, what could be expected in the field and thus it doesn't make sense to believe these players can be something they just are not ... good defenders. The mental mistakes and poor at bats are a different story.

Posted
1 minute ago, tony&rodney said:

The Twins are not a good defensive team, but part of the problem is that defense is not an important consideration in the viewpoint of those guys who put together the roster. The Twins are doing, more or less, what could be expected in the field and thus it doesn't make sense to believe these players can be something they just are not ... good defenders. The mental mistakes and poor at bats are a different story.

Complete agreement. Good fielding ability is not prioritized even in their drafting philosophy. So you get what you get. 

Posted
39 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Which better players? Julien is struggling of late. Wallner and Kiriloff have been awful and bad (respectively). Larnach hasn't had a hit in 10 days. They don't have a catcher to replace Vazquez (Camargo is injured) and Jeffers is playing nearly every day. There is one player in AAA who looks interesting (Keirsey) but that's more for his glove than for his bat.

You pick on Margot but he's 4-8 with a walk over his past 3 games played. Farmer is 3-9 with two doubles and 4 RBI over the same stretch. They're losing this past week but it isn't Farmer or Margot's fault.

Maybe one day made a huge difference, but where are you seeing that either Farmer or Margot is hitting? Farmer's last 7 days are 3-15. equating to .200/.200/.333 slash line with 5 SOs and NO walks. His last 30 are .200/,278/.308 and he has a .472 OPS against LH pitching this year. He is absolutely a big part of the problem - he was supposed to be a .280ish hitter against LH pitching with some power. He's not. He also has lost a step and can't play SS. At age 33, Father time may have decided it's his time. Margot has a better BA over the last 7 days - .313/..353/.313, but his OPS is all of .666 over that time, His OPS is .513 for the year. with a lofty .660 OPS against LH pitching. Again, he's a guy who was supposed to punish LH pitching and provide good D off the bench, even in CF. He has done neither. Another guy who appears to have lost a step. Margot is an old, slow singles hitter without any defensive value so far this year. 

I'd be more sympathetic if we were 20-30 games in and this was a slow start with lots of good contact but bad luck. We're now almost 50 games in and this is looking like a true reflection of who these guys are at this stage of their careers. Let's not kid ourselves that these two aren't part of the problem. They are a big part of the problem along with Santana - guys  who were supposed to help balance the lineup against LH pitching. They haven't done that job.

Let's be honest, it feels like any team that has a LH starter of any quality has a 65% chance of winning that start against the Twins.  That has to be fixed if we want to make the playoffs. Getting Lewis back will help. I have to think giving Kepler, Julien, Larnach, and Miranda more ABs against LH pitching is really the only other option.  Will it be better than playing Farmer, Margot, and Santana? It's hard to know until we try. One thing is for sure  - they'd have to be pretty bad to be worse. It's a low bar from those 3.  

Posted

Castro is overworked and has been forced to play too much in the most important and his worst positions of CF and SS. Most thought Margot would be the backup CF and Farmer would be the backup SS. This has made Castro look bad as he is stretched in those positions (though he is capable). Worse, Margot is terrible even playing mostly the corner OF spots. 

Posted

Forget the lefty/ righty bs for a while.  For example play Kepler regularly.  I realize he may be gone at the end of the season but you need to play your better players more regular.  I realize we are "only" 50 games or so into the season but it's a mediocre team run by a mediocre FO and managed by a less than mediocre manager.  It is whaf it is.  That is a very frustrating team for fans to follow and sink your teeth into.  Notice I didn't say watch as that has been near impossible for many of us these past few years.  That's a different story for another time.

Posted
2 hours ago, TopGunn#22 said:

I sense a growing frustration from Twins fans with the current FO as well as the manager.  The frustrations with our ownership have been well chronicled.  It's well past time for the Margot failure to be admitted to and moved on from.  Kiersey would be an excellent addition as a LH bat to give Buxton a day off to DH as well as provide speed off the bench late in games.  Emmanuel Rodriguez continues to rake in AA.  

It should only be a matter of time before Royce Lewis makes it back.  If Julien keeps taking called third strikes it may only be a matter of time before Brooks Lee gets a chance and Julien goes to St. Paul to find his stroke and his eye.  I am impressed with the defensive improvement of Julien, but he is really disappointing at the plate thus far.

Alex Kirilloff confounds me.  The swing looks great, but you just can't keep fouling pitches off that you should be hammering.  I'm starting to wonder if I was far too optimistic with him.  Miranda is swinging better this year, but he's a future DH, which means he really doesn't have a future with the Twins.  I had all but given up on Larnach and he looks like a different hitter than the last two years so far.  Just play Kepler.  He's been a regular in the past, stop wasting AB's with Margot. 

How the Twins can win 12 in a row and 17 of 21 and then go on a (at this point) 7 game losing streak in which they are barely competitive is a mystery wrapped in an enigma.  After a frugal off season in which the paltry moves the Twins made are starting to look, well, paltry, I think attendance is going to take a big hit this year.  And with just a one-year deal with Balley, what will be the Twins media status and revenue outlook for 2025??   

We don't need to see Lee in 2024.   I don't know enough on Kiersey to provide input.   Miranda/Martin/Wallner need to part of a package to spring life to the team.   Just now sure what we would get.   And you can add Kepler to that list to upgrade our return.  I mean if Rocco is using his only against RH pitchers, he is a waste of an asset

Posted
1 hour ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

Maybe one day made a huge difference, but where are you seeing that either Farmer or Margot is hitting?

Baseball Reference. The game logs are on the main player page and the splits are available there as well.

Outside of Royce Lewis there is no obvious savior who will help this team start hitting again. They can mix and match below average platoon players as much as they want but that won't make them good.

Posted
27 minutes ago, FlyingFinn said:

Castro is overworked and has been forced to play too much in the most important and his worst positions of CF and SS. 

I agree with this. If Castro was a plus defender at CF or SS he'd be the starter there for some team.

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